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Thread: Surefire boring service

  1. #121
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Quite a few emails have asked about tritium vial installation, and one this morning raised the question about installing the vials in the existing grooves of Download's Pocket Rocket 8:



    I will bore mic my PR8, then outside mic the body, as well as depth mic the existing grooves. It appears that the grooves may already be about 1.0mm deep, meaning that an additional 0.5mm of groove depth would allow a 1.5mm trit to sit flush.

    If this works, I plan to put one trit at each end of the three grooves - 6 trits total. Will post back with measuring results & hopefully photos
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  2. #122

    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Are you able to Bead blast maglite? I was thinking 2D.

  3. #123
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybiz32 View Post
    Are you able to Bead blast maglite? I was thinking 2D.
    A maglight should be no problem as long as the switch is removed from the tube before you send it to me. Cost is $20 + $5 return shipping. Please email for shipping address and pay pal information.
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  4. #124

    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    That email about the DPR was mine (Dan). I really hope there is enough material to install some markers. If six trits go in, I think I'd put ice blue towards the head and green on the switch end. That would give an indication as to orientation when groping around in the dark.
    I seem to have misplaced my occipital lobe, and as such cannot search for it. Do you see my dilemma?

  5. #125
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Quote Originally Posted by brembo View Post
    That email about the DPR was mine (Dan). I really hope there is enough material to install some markers. If six trits go in, I think I'd put ice blue towards the head and green on the switch end. That would give an indication as to orientation when groping around in the dark.
    Sometimes it is so difficult to put together the member name with the email

    I really like your idea about using the tritium color to indicate head or tail. Since the pocket rocket always comes on at high setting first, making a mistake would be blinding.
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  6. #126
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Today was SF M4 boring day, as there were two on the bench waiting their turn. The first was one I bought on The Marketplace, a "test light" to prove out fixturing & use for a dimensional reference. Measured all critical dimensions & started to make the boring fixture. Photo shows a short piece of 2" diameter Delrin bar spinning at 700 rpm, with the flash freezing the motion:



    The fixture is first drilled to rough inside diameter, then bored to final diameter, for a size-on-size fit to the body. Both M4's measured .818" outside diameter, so the fixture was bored to that size. Photo below shows the final boring pass, with the carbide insert taking .0002" off the radius ... just as fine as frog hair




    A solid carbide boring bar was fixed to the tool post & locked down with just over 5.5" extending past the tool post. Bore to depth dimension was 5.5555", chosen as it was close to the measured distance plus it is an easy number to remember.



    The boring bar is about 1/4 of the way to target depth:



    All done & smooth as silk:







    Last edited by precisionworks; 08-15-2011 at 08:44 PM.
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  7. #127
    Flashaholic* Morelite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Barry did you ever have this happen to you?


    I'm only at .731" and I'm cutting through one of the milled flats, its the one opposite the clip. I thought the o-ring gland was the thinnest area at .773 and never checked the milled flats. My battery is still rather tight and I have to push it out from the other end, it measures .728"
    I've bored a few 6P bodies and never had a problem, this was my first C2 and luckily it was mine.
    If you look at the second pic it looks like the flat is milled lower or deeper than the o-ring glands.

  8. #128
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    deleted and added to the next post.
    Last edited by precisionworks; 08-19-2011 at 08:04 PM.
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  9. #129
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    I'm only at .731" and I'm cutting through one of the milled flats ...
    Ouch, I feel your pain. I've certainly done worse things to my own lights, but have never seen what you show in your photos.

    When I set up a tube in the lathe, the rear of the tube just forward of the O-ring groove is the place used to indicate runout. In the photo below, it is the green area just to the right of the lock-out dimple:



    The reason for indicating on the outside of the tube, and for not indicating the bore, is that the outside is the critical surface. Some SF's have a bore that isn't concentric with the outside, but boring/reaming/honing will clean up all but the worst of those. So the first thing to look at is what surface was used to center the light?

    If the light was centered on the outside of the tube, how did the first boring pass look? Said another way, did material remove equally from the bore or did the bar cut on one side and miss on the other side? If this happens, touching off the indicator inside the tube will yield a runout number. Even then, this still should not be a problem.

    It looks like somehow the tube got pushed off center, bringing the "new" bore too close to the flat. Depending on how the tube is held in your lathe, this is the most likely cause.

    Another possibility is that the lathe wants to bore a tapered hole, caused primarily by the bed having twist. Precision leveling the lathe will remove any twist.

    Something else to look at is the alignment of the headstock with the bed. Many machines, mine included, allow slight offsetting of the headstock to assure that the headstock bore is dead parallel to the lathe bed.

    The last point to check is height of the cutting tip of the boring bar. I run mine .010" above center to assure that the insert will not drag on the bottom. It could be something else, possibly a loose or misaligned part, but one or more of the items above are probably the culprit. Take your time & you'll find the problem.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just a quick note on next weeks planned work schedule. Any light that arrives on Saturday (08-20-2011) or Monday (08-22-2011) will be bored & shipped out not later than Tuesday morning, August 23.

    Starting early that morning, I've committed to a lathe job for a manufacturer who will shut down his factory at 1700 hours on the following Friday. Best guess is that this job will run for three full days on the lathe, if all goes according to plan. Worst case is that it may take six days. The job involves taking 10 feet of 6" diameter HDPE and machining it into custom shaped belt guides, sort of like a pulley for a flat belt. Since each guide is only 2" thick, there will be about fifty of them to machine. Tooling was ordered today & will arrive late Monday, just in time for a Tuesday start. I'll bet money that the owner will phone me at 0800 Tuesday "just to see how the job is going"

    Bottom line is that any light arriving after next Monday may be in a holding pattern for up to seven days. Thanks in advance for your patience. Your lights will be bored & returned as quickly as possible.
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  10. #130
    Flashaholic* Morelite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Thanks Barry,
    I'll be looking into those ideas tomorrow for sure. I do know that the first pass took a nice even cut all the way around. I checked runout on the larger diameter right before the lock-out notch and only indicated .003". I don't have any way to adjust centering as I use a collet in a collet chuck. I have a ER40 1" collet that was bored to 1.125" that I use for the SF 6Ps. My Thinbit boring bore is setup a little below center because it is at a -10 degree angle.

  11. #131
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Quote Originally Posted by Morelite View Post
    Thanks Barry,
    I'll be looking into those ideas tomorrow for sure. I do know that the first pass took a nice even cut all the way around. I checked runout on the larger diameter right before the lock-out notch and only indicated .003".
    It certainly sounds like you have all the bases covered. Runout at .003" should be no problem when boring a C2, as the walls will end up at .019"-.020" thick <+/- .0015"> meaning .0175" on the thinnest wall ... which is substantially thick.

    I use a collet in a collet chuck.
    In addition to indicating the large diameter at the lock-out notch, also indicate the large diameter right before the collet nose. It should also indicate .003" and maybe less. On rare occasion, I've seen parts held in a collet that indicate very close to zero at the far end but have a large runout near the collet. Although not likely, it's worth a look so that possibility can be eliminated.

    From your setup, which is an excellent way to fixture a 2-cell light, the more likely cause is either a twisted bed that needs to be precision leveled, or a headstock not parallel to the ways. If I had this problem, I would first level the lathe using a Starrett 199 or other level that reads to .0005"/foot - then take a test cut to check for taper. The test cut (or test bar) is covered in the South Bend booklet The Installation & Leveling of the Lathe. These instructions, written before World War II, are as valid today as they were then: http://www.wswells.com/data/howto/H-3.pdf

    When the lathe will cut a test bar of equal diameter at both ends, it's time to run an indicator along a piece of precision shafting to verify that the headstock is aligned with the ways. Thomson Linear Shafting is great for this job, and available from lots of sources on the web.

    Thinbit boring bar is setup a little below center because it is at a -10 degree angle.
    I don't have that bar but do use a similar APT Super-Lok which sets up the insert at a negative tilt. The APT (and probably the Thinbit) should be set at least to center & it doesn't hurt to raise it .010" above center. Because we are boring with a big bar relative to the size of the bore, setup is really critical.

    All things considered, the cause of your problem is most likely misalignment - which may be a little hard to find but is not difficult or expensive to correct
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  12. #132
    Flashaholic* beach honda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    I always enjoy the pictures and technical details, Barry!

    I've got more lights which need a bore, just gotta save up some money!

    Hope all is well!
    -cB
    -Chr1s-
    Got Lights? USE EM!!

  13. #133
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Quote Originally Posted by beach honda View Post
    I always enjoy the pictures and technical details, Barry!

    I've got more lights which need a bore, just gotta save up some money!

    Hope all is well!
    -cB
    Thanks, Chris

    The shop work is running at almost full capacity, with Saturdays being a normal work day, and many Sundays also (including tomorrow). The business was started in 2003 with only basic shop equipment & a small South Bend lathe - no mill, surface grinder, horizontal band saw, cold cut saw, and so little tooling that it would fit into a Large Flat Rate box. Over the years many customers have come & gone, but about a dozen individuals & companies have stayed with me & they are my "critical mass" of business. A week does not go by without some of them needing a job done right away, and many jobs require trouble shooting a problem, designing a solution, then fabricating & installing the corrective measures. I certainly cannot complain, especially since many of my friends with similar shops are looking for jobs to run.

    Any light that arrives on Saturday (08-20-2011) or Monday (08-22-2011) will be bored & shipped out not later than Tuesday morning, August 23.
    Look what arrived today ...an L1 that will be bored for 17500 and a brand new E1E that needs to hold an 18500. Some of you have perfect timing, and another light or two may arrive Monday - which is a relief for me, as all these will be done & shipped out before jumping into the marathon job mentioned in post #129.

    Also have some interesting aluminum parts inbound from Europe, these for trit vial milling. And a titanium McG that will have 5 trits around the tail end plus 6 around the head. Photos will be posted when these are done, but the designs that were requested are really cool & I'm excited to get started on them.
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  14. #134
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire® boring service

    Added the Registered Trade Mark symbol to the thread title (at the suggestion of another CPF member - Thanks!)

    With the lights inbound for trit vial work, I invested in a large Super Spacer. These are milling devices that combine a lathe-type 3-jaw chuck with a table that rotates to predetermined stopping points. For perfect circumferential spacing of trits, they are the best available option short of a CNC machine.



    The chuck is a Set-Tru or Adjust-Tru type, meaning that it can be adjusted to no more than .0005" total runout. This is critically important when machining grooves as it assures that all the grooves are the same depth (+/- .00025"). It can also sit flat on the mill table to hold tail caps for end installations. At 135# (61kg) it will not get moved around a lot
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  15. #135
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    Default Re: Surefire® boring service

    Barry,
    Very nice addition. I was wondering how you managed exact angular spacing.
    barry

  16. #136
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire® boring service

    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    Barry,
    Very nice addition. I was wondering how you managed exact angular spacing.
    barry
    Plan A was to use a 5C square collet block to install the trits at 90° spacing, and to use a 5C hex collet block for 60° spacing:



    Almost immediately, requests came in for spacing where neither of those blocks would work. On to Plan B (the Super Spacer)

    Bored an L1 for a 17mm cell today:



    And also bored an E1E for the Big Battery:





    These lights are quite a bit more challenging than almost any other, especially the 18mm bore. The battery slides in slowly unless the tailcap is removed ... and comes out slowly unless the tailcap is removed.

    These lights did not make it to the Post Office this afternoon, but will be taken there early tomorrow morning.
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  17. #137

    Default Re: Surefire® boring service

    thanks for the updates, looking good!

  18. #138
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    Default Re: Surefire® boring service

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    And also bored an E1E for the Big Battery:





    These lights are quite a bit more challenging than almost any other, especially the 18mm bore. The battery slides in slowly unless the tailcap is removed ... and comes out slowly unless the tailcap is removed.

    These lights did not make it to the Post Office this afternoon, but will be taken there early tomorrow morning.
    Sounds like a perfect fit then. Just waiting for an XM-L head now.

    Cheers,
    Nova

  19. #139

    Default Re: Surefire® boring service

    This is so cool!

  20. #140
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire® boring service

    With the lights inbound for trit vial work, I invested in a large Super Spacer.
    UPS brought a large wooden crate & left it at the shop while I was in the house eating dinner. The lid of the crate was not screwed tightly shut & it opened with only hand pressure ... never a good sign. Here's what was inside the crate:



    Notice that there is no chuck attached to the base

    A quick phone call to the seller confirmed that both the base & the chuck were shipped in the crate. From the damage to the crate, it looks like it was stacked high on a shelf & fell quite a few feet, hard enough to pull out a dozen wood screws that secured the lid. UPS searched for the chuck but was unable to find it. Then they called the next day to set up a time to pick up the crate & told me to remove the contents & keep those - quite a shock to me. I advised the seller of this & he said that UPS had paid the claim & he could not accept the base, so it is mine ... not a bad ending to what could have been a miserable situation. Now to find a chuck to fit.

    Started working on the large job on Tuesday ... the owner of the factory did not call at 0800, he waited until 0930 ... even though the job was just starting to run, there were issues. HDPE does not like to be sawed at a fast rate, and my normal bandsaw speed produced an arc shaped cut. Slowing the feed down to a creep solved that problem. Chucking the 24" long by 6.250" diameter rod was a challenge. At 36# the standard chuck jaws struggled for a grip. And regripping the parts after sectioning them proved dangerous - the first one ejected the chuck & struck my left collarbone, feeling like a 90 mph fast ball. But I persisted until the second part went into orbit before making up custom aluminum soft jaws:





    The jaws are made from 1" thick Mic-6 cast aluminum tooling plate. Six hours got them close to final shape and two more hours made them ready to use.



    The part looks deceptively simple, but it has two outside diameter turns, two parting cuts, two inside bevels, one bore & one counterbore. Ten finished parts are produced every six hours. I thought about taking the material to the CNC shop where I work, but the chips on HDPE will not break & the job would run no faster with CNC.

    Photo below shows the lathe turning at 700 rpm, with motion partially frozen by flash. Sometimes the shavings pile up nicely, other times they wrap around the rod & the lathe has to be immediately stopped. The shavings can cut like a knife, so no attempt is made to remove them while the spindle is turning. Plastics like HDPE are among the most dangerous lathe jobs done in any shop.



    Filled two 40 gallon trash bags with shavings so far, and the job is only half done. But at least it's running well & the customer is happy.

    EDIT - A phone call to Phase II gave me the MSC stock number of the chuck, & it qualified for the current 35% off sale price & will arrive on Monday
    Last edited by precisionworks; 08-27-2011 at 11:01 AM.
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  21. #141
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    Default Re: Surefire® boring service

    what do you think about cutting the anti-roll hex off of an e-series head and bead blasting? How different is the appearance of bead-blasted titanium (spyderco Ti scales) and aluminum?
    A poor man can only afford to buy the best, once.
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  22. #142
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Quote Originally Posted by notrefined View Post
    what do you think about cutting the anti-roll hex off of an e-series head ...
    The hex points should be able to be turned down, as the final diameter would be no thinner than it already is.

    ... and bead blasting? How different is the appearance of bead-blasted titanium (spyderco Ti scales) and aluminum?
    BB aluminum is brighter & more silver in color than BB titanium, which runs anywhere from light gray to dark gray:





    My Sebenza (& every other Sebe that I've seen) is darker gray. The Ti lights that I've BB are similar in color. I couldn't find a good photo of BB aluminum products, but they are closer to bare aluminum in color.
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  23. #143
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Spent a total of four hours on the Super Spacer base. It was stripped down to the bare frame and every component was cleaned, deburred, polished & relubricated before re-assembly. Nicely made with all critical surfaces Blanchard Ground - a process that produces surfaces that are dead flat & parallel to each other. Went through the same process with the chuck, but that required only two hours because fewer parts are involved.

    Made up "comfort handles for the chuck wrench:



    The material is brown Linen Micarta, which is a composite made by impregnating linen with a thermosetting phenolic resin ... smells awful while being machined but gives tools a great grip, especially with oily or greasy hands.

    Made a knurled aluminum cover for one part of the spacer base, as the factory part was difficult to grasp:



    Lifted the Super Space/chuck assembly onto the mill table:



    And clamped my personal McG Haiku in the jaws to give a size perspective:



    When a light is being milled for trits, it will never be held directly by the chuck jaws but rather it will be surrounded by a custom fitted Delrin fixture.

    There's a good thread on the McGizmo forum where a number of Haiku owners have posted photos of their lights. I like the installation shown below & will do that to my Haiku before machining a Haiku for a member from Europe:



    Still have to make up a base to bolt the Super Spacer to the mill table, while waiting on delivery of a bottle of Norland Optical Adhesive 61 (NOA61). Should be installing trits within a week
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  24. #144
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Received an E2E for boring to 18mm and wanted to work on reducing vibration of the boring bar. One of the challenges of boring a small diameter tube with thin walls is that the tip of the bar will sometimes catch & release, causing a condition called chatter. Since the bar is the best one currently available, using an insert optimized for cutting aluminum, something else needed to be modified ... so I fabricated a vibration damper out of flat stock welded to round stock. One of my friends who runs a tiny mini-lathe said that this setup would cause his lathe to tip over

    The vibration damper worked out well:









    Bored and ready to run:



    Bore finished out nicely:





    Last edited by precisionworks; 09-01-2011 at 04:44 PM.
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  25. #145
    Flashaholic* compasillo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    I really enjoy all this technical info
    and also will love to see how projects come out from your lathe

  26. #146
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    Barry,
    Very nice work on the E2E. What was the minimum wall thickness after boring for the 18mm battery? From one of the photos in post 104, I got the impression you could only go up to a 17mm bore in an L1 (you showed a 17670 battery being inserted). Are the tube sizes substantially different between an E2E and an L1? Thanks.
    barry

  27. #147
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    What was the minimum wall thickness after boring for the 18mm battery?
    The E2E started out a little thicker than every other E-series that I've measured, with an O-ring outside diameter at .757" - most measure .752"-.753". The bore needs to finish out at .730" for an AW protected 18650 to easily slide in, as they can run as large as .728". Subtracting .730" from .757" yields .027" difference, meaning that the tube walls are .0135". I've seen commercial tubes that are thinner and anything .012" or greater is a workable number IMO.

    From one of the photos in post 104, I got the impression you could only go up to a 17mm bore in an L1 (you showed a 17670 battery being inserted)
    That member requested 17mm, & I would have to check to see if the L1 could go 18mm.

    also will love to see how projects come out from your lathe
    Your trit project will happen very soon. I have a bottle of NOA61 inbound and would like to have that before starting to mill the trit slots. Planning also to sacrifice my Haiku before working on yours, just to make sure Murphy isn't lurking in the shadows
    Last edited by precisionworks; 09-01-2011 at 06:07 PM.
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  28. #148

    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    After reading this I had to have a measuring party -

    E1e - .753
    E2e - .753
    LX2 (new style) - .754
    L1 (4 flats) - .751
    E1e (latest) - .754

    oh well, I'll be on the lookout for a thicker one -

  29. #149
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    I'll be on the lookout for a thicker one -
    It's probably easier to find a skinnier battery, as the majority of AW18650 2900 mAh run .724"-.725", meaning a bore of .727"-.728". Figure that most of the E-series will measure at least .752" and the wall will end up at .012".

    The E2E shown in the photo above was bored to .730" for a couple of reasons - some AW18650 2900 mAh do run as large as .728" (only one that I've ever seen, but there are likely a few more out there). And that light was exceedingly thick to start with.

    Look back at post #117 for info on the first E2L that was bored. That tube was taken out to only .7265" because two of my six batteries run skinny and one of those two batteries is always in that light. IIRC, that light measures .752" at the O-ring for a wall thickness of nearly .013".
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  30. #150
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    Default Re: Surefire boring service

    I have a feeling that may be my E2E! Looks great and I like seeing pictures of it and hearing about the process. I'm happy that it was a touch on the thick side if it was mine as I have a number of cells and they all should fit. Thanks for the show and tell and fine work!
    My Lights: EDC; Nitecore EC1, ZLSC52, Quark Mini AAW, Preon P2
    Duty; Mag Recharger, Malkoff MD2 w/M60, C2 Bored w/LX2 clip Malkof M61 219

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