"Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

EZO

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"Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

This is an informative, well written and well balanced article about the phaseout of the 100 Watt incandescent light bulb from The NY Times Sunday Magazine. Well worth the read.

Bulb In, Bulb Out by ANDREW RICE
 
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Harold_B

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

Very interesting. This is the first I can recall there being mention of of red LEDs in the Philips bulb. I wonder how they are maintaining the color balance over time (Cree uses an active feedback circuit to monitor the spectrum in their color corrected products).

Even though I agree with most of the content of the article it seems to have been written with a heavy slant toward LED and Philips in particular. I want to see LED succeed in the market and I think the higher efficiency specs for lighting are proper. It just doesn't seem effective to belittle people with different perspectives (referencing the closing of the article) as a means of convincing the general public of the merits of LEDs. None the less, thanks for posting the link. Very interesting indeed.
 

beerwax

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

'the profit margin on a buld that sells for a quarter is negligible' . i missed that one. i enjoy trying to understand all the forces at work. cheers.
 

richpalm

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

Time to go hoard more incandescents...
 

EZO

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

Time to go hoard more incandescents...

My favorite line in the article is the quote from Howard Brandston, "Some of the most knowledgeable people I know have begun to stockpile a lifetime supply of incandescent lamps."

P.S. On re-reading the article a second time, I would have to agree with Harold_B's assessment of the last paragraph, although on the whole I think the article did a decent job of presenting the different sides of the issue.
 
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Steve K

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

I appreciated the perspective of those who made the change from gas lamps to incandescent. Hard to say what the general public's opinion was, but it's comforting to know that there was a segment who were convinced that that changing to incandescent would be The End to Life as We Know It.

regards,
Steve K.
 

EZO

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

Never mind those stinky and dangerous gas lamps. Still wish I could bathe in the warm and comforting glow of whale oil.
 

Steve K

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

It's true... I'm willing to bet that a house has never exploded because of a whale oil leak!

Steve K.
 

jtr1962

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

The only downside is there wouldn't be enough whales to supply 7 billion people with oil. Even supplying several hundred million, we practically wiped out the species.
 

EZO

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

Well, we could go back to burning olive oil like in biblical times...."And you shall command the people of Israel that they bring to you pure beaten olive-oil for the light, that a lamp may be set to burn continually". Exodus 27:20

Alternatively, we could return to the use of animal lamps, "Oily birds and fish need only be threaded with a wick to produce a working lamp".

Don't laugh, for all the talk of LEDs and incandescent bulb hoarding after December 2012 we might just need to know this stuff! :)
 
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idleprocess

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

My favorite line in the article is the quote from Howard Brandston, "Some of the most knowledgeable people I know have begun to stockpile a lifetime supply of incandescent lamps."

Independent of the subject matter, that line is a great bit of rhetoric, but it's both deceiving and intellectually dishonest. It implies that smart people know something, but makes no argument, applies no logic, and sadly sways all too many people via the argument from authority without demonstrating actual authority.
 

LEDAdd1ct

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

Since idle brought it up, I can't help but post my favorite index here.

The page has a fallacy for every occasion!
 

beerwax

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

lifetime supply of incans for in my house, what 30 or 40 bulbs less than a buck each. wouldnt be hard to do. it might be a lot easier than trying to find a 'knowledgeable person'. im still trying to verify 'intelligent life'.

on the other hand , if i stray to the hotwire side of torchs a lifetime supply might be more problematical.

cheers
 

EZO

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

My favorite line in the article is the quote from Howard Brandston, "Some of the most knowledgeable people I know have begun to stockpile a lifetime supply of incandescent lamps."

Independent of the subject matter, that line is a great bit of rhetoric, but it's both deceiving and intellectually dishonest. It implies that smart people know something, but makes no argument, applies no logic, and sadly sways all too many people via the argument from authority without demonstrating actual authority.

If you've read the article you would note that the author of the quote leans toward a particular political persuasion that often revels in that sort of thing, as do a number of talk radio hosts and bloviating TV pundits who have made lucrative careers out of the technique.
 
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idleprocess

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

If you've read the article you would note that the author of the quote leans toward a particular political persuasion that often revels in that sort of thing, as do a number of talk radio hosts who have made careers out of the technique.

What got me about Howard Brandston's piece in the article was this:
[...]Brandston contends that his root objection to the law, which he calls "immoral," is connected to his professional appreciation of incandescence, which mimics the natural spectrum. "It's what we grew up with — it's sunlight," Brandston told me earlier on the phone.
This is clearly wrong on two counts.

Sunlight is not a smooth blackbody radiator, unlike an incandescent. It has spikes in its spectrum like the CFL that Brandston derides (albeit somewhat smooth). I gather this has something to do with the nuclear fusion powering the sun and the forced release of photons at discrete energy levels as opposed to the effects of heating tungsten to near-melting temperatures, which releases photons across the spectrum.

Sunlight's color temperature is a great deal "cooler" than incandescents, centered around 5500K as opposed to the 2700K or so more common with incandescent bulbs. 2700K is much closer to candle light or a wood fire.


In another piece, Brandston speaks at length about the "efficiencies" introduced by dimmers. This further hurts his credibility as a "technical expert" because dimmers - in addition to dropping efficiency into low single-digit lumens-per-watt - further drive down the color temperature and CRI towards the sodium-vapor lamps he derides in the same piece. My experience with dimmers has been that they drastically shorten incandescent lifespans, but I was using cheap incandescents back then ... I strongly suspect that Brandston would be using something a wee bit pricier.

If Brandston wants to make aesthetic arguments or cite consumer preference, he'd have a lengthy client portfolio and a mountain of data behind him, respectively. He so eagerly undercuts his credibility by making claims about incandescent spectrum.

His pseudo-technical arguments about measuring efficiency in the same piece are also bunk. For a device like a light bulb, you measure at the device under design parameters (ie, 120V line voltage) to establish a baseline. Trying to account for extraneous factors like dimmers that change the standard operating conditions is an exercise in futility due to the unpredictable variety. Same for the "additional energy needed to build alternatives;" the additional energy is reflected in the sale price. Such arguments are obfuscation at best.
 
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EZO

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

"Brandston contends that his root objection to the law, which he calls "immoral," is connected to his professional appreciation of incandescence, which mimics the natural spectrum. "It's what we grew up with — it's sunlight,"

I couldn't help but be struck by that remark myself. As a photographer and designer I have a corner of my studio as well as a light table illuminated with specialized 5000K fluorescents for examining and color correcting prints, chromes, Pantone color chips and offset proofs. A 2700K incandescent bulb is hardly "sunlight" or "daylight" and would be useless for the task.
 

beerwax

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

objection your honour.

sunlight is cool white on a clear sunny day. when overcast its warmer. as the sun progresses towards darkness the colour temp heats up.

inside a house , for me, i would want overcast or evening sunlight rather than middle of the day sunlight.

the cfls available for general consumption dont match , to my eye , any of those 3 daylight levels.

incans do sort of except for bright sunlight.i believe that is brandston intent.


maybe expert technical knowledge is of little benefit in deciding if people like a light source. it could be compared to wine or food taste. you can know everything about esters and oak barrels and grain fed or vine ripened but your tongue may have a different answer.

it is enough to look at the light and decide if you like it or not, and by how much. hes just scratching around for technical argument to try to make a case to people that are forcing him to eat peas.

me - i like everything .
cheers
 

idleprocess

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

sunlight is cool white on a clear sunny day. when overcast its warmer. as the sun progresses towards darkness the colour temp heats up.
[...]
incans do sort of except for bright sunlight.i believe that is brandston intent
You mean, they sort of do a minority of the day - dawn, dusk, volcanic eruption plume, and heavy smog? :D

I'm going to speculate that the consumer preference for warm colors has something to do with the times of day they tend to be in their residences - generally morning and evening. Individual preference is not easily changed and fairly subjective, thus I do not care to debate it.
 
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jtr1962

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

The guy is a lighting designer. For some reason I can't fathom all lighting designers seem stuck on incandescent as if it were a perfect light source. He's assuming everyone will choose an incandescent-like light source over anything else simply because that's his personal preference. My observations indicate otherwise. I see more and more homes lit with 3500K or 5000K CFLs these days. I see people selling them on eBay, where the selling point is "get rid of the yellow". Moreover, in quite a few countries, like Japan, 5000K in residences is normal. The preference for incandesent is hardly universal. It's more an acquired taste in some Western countries. Even here, that taste seems to be gradually shifting in favor of cooler light.

Don't even get me started on the whole bit about dimmers. You end up with 1/10th the light while only saving 2/3rds of the energy. When you do the numbers it's just ridiculous. Dim 300 watts of small-base bulbs (which only give ~3000 lumens under nominal conditions), you end up with 300 lumens requiring 100 watts. You could get the same 300 lumens with 3 watts of LED. Moreover, as idleprocess said, the CCT is approaching that of the sodium vapor lamps Mr. Branston hates, so it's not like it's such a wonderful light source.
 

Steve K

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Re: "Bulb In, Bulb Out" Good NY Times Magazine article about the light bulb phase out

.... Individual preference is not easily changed and fairly subjective, thus I do not care to debate it.

A wise choice. :)

It may be possible to debate whether preferences can be modified, though. My guess is that is possible, but varies with age, experiences, etc. The elderly are probably the most set in their ways, and therefore most resistant to a new color or spectrum from their lighting. The younger are more adaptable. As non-incandescent becomes more common, people will tend to accept it (other than those with physiological incompatibility).

For some folks, CFL's are like disco, and they will just wait until the next type of lighting comes along that isn't quite so offensive. :)

regards,
Steve K.
 
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