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Thread: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

  1. #1

    Party Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Warning: even more pic heavy than usual.

    UPDATE JUNE 27, 2011: Note that there are potential issues with running this light on Max on 2xCR123A. Please see this thread for more info.



    Thrunite has just updated their Scorpion model with a new circuit - featuring much higher output, and a revised interface. Let us see how this V2 compares to the original V1 and other members of the class.

    Specifications:
    Where relevant, I’ve updated the specs to reflect the new version
    • Cree XM-L (T6) LED
    • Uses 2x 3V CR123A batteries (Lithium) or one 18650 rechargeable battery (Li-ion), voltage range 2.7V-8.4V.
    • NEW: The Max current is 3A for 1 minute and then low to 2.5A on 2xCR123A (previous version was 1.5A on Max)
    • NEW: Max initial output: >750 lumens for 2xCR123A, >660 lumens for 1x18650 (previous version was reported as 460 ANSI Lumens)
    • NEW: 2x 3.7V RCR are now explicitly warned against in the manual, due to the high discharge current on Max.
    • NEW: Battery low voltage warning system: when battery voltage drops to 2.8v (previously 2.9V), output will drop to low level. Previously, the light shut off at 2.7v (it no longer appears to).
    • Reverse polarity protection, to protect from improper battery installation
    • NEW: Digitally-regulated Infinite Brightness circuit is now current-controlled (previously was PWM-controlled)
    • Dimensions: 164mm (Length) x 25mm (Diameter) x 35mm (Head), Weight: 5.4oz weight (without batteries)
    • Made of durable aircraft-grade aluminum
    • Premium Type III hard-anodized anti-abrasive finish
    • Toughened ultra-clear glass lens with anti-reflective coating
    • Removable clip
    • Removable crenelated SS bezel
    • Smooth reflector (30mm diameter; 24mm depth) maintains good throw.
    • NEW: The Scorpion features a unique five stage UI with a twist ring on the tail cap. The ring rotates from left to right for the following modes: Lock out, Infinite brightness with memory, Firefly; Momentary Strobe; and Momentary On (relative order has now changed).
    • Typical Output and Runtimes:
    • NEW: Firefly mode: 0.2 lumens for 605 hours 2xCR123A (previously was 0.1 lumens, 9 days)
    • NEW: Infinite brightness: variable depending on setting and battery capacity. Max output 660 Lumens
    • NEW: Max: 750 OFT lumens for 1 minute, then drop to 89% when using2xCR123A (previously listed as 460ANSI lumens for 1 hour on 2xCR123A)
    • NEW: Strobe: 10hz, 750 lumens for 2.5hours (previously listed as 460 lumens for 2 hours)
    • MSRP: unknown at this time, but I believe will be shipping soon.

    Thrunite was also kind enough to send along a new Turbo head for the Scorpion V2 for testing. No specs on it yet, but it does improve the throw (as you will see below).




    Packaging has been updated for the new Scorpion V2. The cardboard case now comes with a colourful slip cover. Inside you will find the light, wrist lanyard, and spare o-rings (as before) – but also included now is a reasonable quality holster with closing flap. A revised manual is also included.



    The Turbo head came in its own box. I suspect this will be sold separately.




    From left to right: Surefire CR123A, Thrunite Scorpion 2 with Turbo head, Thrunite Scorpion V1, 4Sevens Maelstrom X7, Lumintop TD-15X.

    Dimensions are largely unchanged from last time (with standard head), but weight has increased slightly:

    Scorpion V1: Weight: 167.5g (no batteries), Length: 168mm, Width: 35.1 (bezel), 37.0mm (tailcap grip ring)
    Scorpion V2: Weight: 171.2g (no batteries), Length: 168mm, Width: 35.0 (bezel), 37.0mm (tailcap grip ring)
    Scorpion V2 with Turbo Head: Weight: 188.3g (no batteries), Length: 171mm, Width: 41.0 (bezel), 37.0mm (tailcap grip ring)

    The Scorpion remains a tad beefier than most lights in this class, with apparently heavier heatsinking in the head (noticeable head weight difference compared to other lights). Length is also a little longer than typical, due to the control ring in the tailcap. Turbo head adds a little extra length.





    The standard head Scorpion V2 is unchanged from the previous version – in terms of physical appearance. As before, the light feels quite solid and durable overall.

    Clip is removable, with a knurled ring cover to hide the attachment point. Note the clip is not reversible.

    Black anodizing (type III = HA) is in matte finish, similar to the Neutron series. Lettering (which is minimal) is bright and clear. Knurling is reasonably aggressive (similar to the Neutron series), and there is a generous amount of it over the light and tailcap. Grip is good, especially with the removable clip and built-in tailcap aluminum grip ring.

    Square-cut screw threads are anodized for tailcap lock-out. Light cannot tailstand.

    As before, there is a spring on the positive contact plate in the head, insuring contact for flat-top cells. I had trouble getting most of my high-capacity 18650 cells to work in the V1 sample (seemed to be too long, preventing the tailcap from screwing down all the way). But everything worked in my new V2 sample.




    The tailcap looks identical to before.

    The tailcap exterior is composed of two distinct regions – a metal base (the grip ring and knurled region) and a polymer (i.e. plastic) control ring and switch. The control ring is directly connected to the substantial spring assembly unit inside the head, and the whole area spins freely when the tailcap is not attached.

    FYI, this design is remarkably similar to the Night-Ops Gladius. Not surprisingly, the interface is also nearly identical to that of the Gladius, except for the addition of the extra Firefy mode on the Scorpion. More on that (and the V2 revisions) in a moment.

    As before, it is very important you carefully line up the groove area with the tailcap ridge (by turning the plastic control ring) before tightening the switch assembly (by screwing the tailcap by the metal grip area). This new V2 seems somewhat smoother in my testing, but even the V1 worked fairly well. Still, be careful not to every try and force the tailcap when screwing on - you may damage the switch if overly careless. Once in the groove, the control ring now moves between 4 clear detents that set the output modes of the light.

    For more on how the control ring works (and the V2 revisions), please see my User Interface discussion below.

    Let see how it looks with the new Turbo head installed:





    The Turbo head doesn’t look out of place on the light (in fact, they could probably have gotten away with an even larger one). There is no knurling or markings on the sample I was sent, so it is possible this is still an engineering sample.

    Let’s see how they compare when viewed head-on (relative scale is only approximate) - standard head first, followed by Turbo head:




    Note: Don't worry about those little black specks in the pics above - it is simply dust on or around the emitter dome being reflected and magnified by the angle of the pic. Given the open head (with the ability to swap reflector/bezels), it stands to reason some dust and debris will get in from time to time. I just gave the bare emitter a mild shot of compressed air, and the specks disappeared upon reassembly of the reflector/bezel.

    Both heads have a fairly deep and smooth reflector, with a well-centered XM-L emitter. I would expect reasonably good throw from both versions, with of course an advantage to the larger reflector in the Turbo head.

    Which brings me to the white-wall beamshots. All lights are on AW protected 18650, about ~0.75 meter from a white wall (with the camera ~1.25 meters back from the wall). Automatic white balance on the camera, to minimize tint differences. All beamshots taken immediately upon activation.

    Note: "Throw" refers to the V2 with Turbo head, and the original V1 is simply labeled as "Scorpion". The Scorpion V2 is running on Max in the Ramp mode (1x18650).













    First thing you will notice is that the new V2 packs more punch than the original V1 (i.e. is brighter overall). The optional Turbo head adds a bit more throw, but it isn’t so obvious this close to a white wall.

    Which brings me to my outdoor beamshots. I have just posted a new 100-yard round-up beamshot review for 2011, showcasing all my current "thrower" lights. Below are a couple of animated GIFs for relevant comparisons. Please see my round-up review for additional pics of other lights.

    Note that these beamshots are also all taken immediately after initial activation of the light. Also, my Scorpion V2 is running on 1x18650 in the Momentary Max for these beamshots. Momentary mode on 2xRCR/CR123A would be slightly brighter initially (see my Summary Tables below for a discussion).






    Again, you can see the new V2 clearly outshines the original V1 Scorpion (and most of the competition in this class). The Turbo head does indeed boost the throw. In fact, the output and throw are so high, I've added a comparison below to a few of the "big gun" 2x18650-sized lights:



    The V2 Turbo holds its ground pretty well, relative to the TK35 and BC40 for example. Of course, runtime will be a lot less on the 1x18650/2xIMR RCR Scorpion V2.

    Since the throw is so impressive with the Turbo head installed, I thought I would compare it to the dedicated XP-G throwers:



    Well, well, well – this is the first XM-L light to actually throw as far (or further) than my dedicated XP-G R5 throw lights.

    Scroll down to my Summary Tables for actual lux measures of all lights, on various batteries.

    User Interface

    The UI has been revised from the original V1 Scorpion. I suggest readers refer back to that review for a more detailed discussion – I will focus here on what has changed in V2.

    As before, care has to be taken in how you screw on the tailcap (i.e. the raised ridge on the interior assembly must be lined up with the groove on the body tube before screwing it down). When fully assembled, you will still feel four clear detents on the plastic control ring for the four output modes of the light. But the sequence has changed from before.

    To start, the first position remains Lock Out. From the left most detent, partially depress the switch, and turn the control ring further to the left (i.e. counter-clockwise). This locks the switch partially depressed, and you lose all the detents on the ring. At this point, the light won't come on or off by the switch until you turn the ring again while holding down the switch (causing it to release the lock on the switch, which pops back out). Note that thanks to the screw thread anodizing, you can still also lock out the light by simply unscrewing the head a quarter turn (i.e. by holding the metal base of the tailcap and turning).

    In sequence, the next four modes (i.e. moving to the right, or clockwise) are now Infinite Brightness, Firefly, Momentary Strobe, and Momentary Max. Previously, the sequence was Firefly, Infinite Brightness, Momentary Max, and Momentary Strobe. Note that the Infinite Brightness mode has memory, and retains the last setting used (as before).

    There are a number minor (but appreciated) changes in how the ring functions:

    The main change is in the Infinite brightness mode. The ramping (activated by a press-hold form Off, as before) now has a reverse function - it changes direction of the ramp if you release the switch and re-press. This is convenient if you miss the output level you wanted – just switch it off and press-hold on again, and the light will reverse the direction (i.e. don't have to wait for the whole cycle, as before). Ramping time is also shorter now (about 5 secs, see graph below), and it uses a visually-linear logarithmic ramp now (instead of a standard current-linear ramp). Thrunite informs me the brightness varies 5%-89% (150mA-2.6A) across the ramp. You will note the lowest point of the ramp is higher than before.



    Also, there is no longer the short re-activation delay when resetting the ramp. Before, if you flashed off-on too quickly, the light would not re-illuminate (i.e. need to wait a sec or so).

    But the most significant change to the Infinite Brightness circuit is how it regulates output levels: the V2 is now current-controlled – so no more visual PWM.

    There is no longer any pre-flash when first connecting the circuit. On my V1 Scorpion, I always had a brief max output pre-flash when making initial contact of the tailcap with the battery (and potentially a second pre-flash when fully tightened). This is now completely gone.

    Also, if you turn the ring to another position while the light is on, you no longer need to turn off before re-activating in that mode. You do still need to click the switch – but now it simply adjusts to the new mode smoothly, without output interruption.

    Finally, Thrunite has increased the current of the Momentary Max mode on 2xRCR and 2xCR123A - you get 3A for 1 min, followed by drop-down to 2.5A for the rest of the run. In contrast, the Infinite Brightness ramp mode is 2.5A at its highest level, on all batteries.

    PWM/Strobe

    As mentioned above, PWM is now completely gone (previous V1 was a noticeable 250 Hz).



    Strobe now matches the 10 Hz spec (my previous sample was 13.1 Hz, similar to the Neutron series).

    Testing Method:

    All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, a la Quickbeam's flashlightreviews.com method. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan, except for any extended run Lo/Min modes (i.e. >12 hours) which are done without cooling.

    I have recently devised a method for converting my lightbox relative output values (ROV) to estimated Lumens. See my How to convert Selfbuilt's Lighbox values to Lumens thread for more info.

    Throw/Output Summary Chart:

    Effective November 2010, I have revised my summary tables to match with the current ANSI FL-1 standard for flashlight testing. Please see http://www.sliderule.ca/FL1.htm for a description of the terms used in these tables.

    Note that my estimated lumen values may be a bit on the low side for these newer XM-L lights. My calibration was based on lower output lights, so the absolute relationship may not hold at this higher level. But you can still rely on the relative relationship between lights measured in my lightbox (i.e. to let you know how they perform relative to one another).

    UPDATE JUNE 9, 2011: The Scorpion V2 is driven harder for the first 1 min on Momentary Max on 2xRCR and 2xCR123A (i.e. 3A, then drops down to 2.5A), but not on the Max of the Infinite Brightness mode (i.e 2.5A on all batteries). Below are some tables comparing estimated lumen output in my lightbox, and corresponding throw/beam distance, for all batteries.







    As you can see, 2x battery sources are brighter for the first minute. I also see a slight initial increase in the 1x18650 Momentary Max mode, but this is relatively minor compared to the 2x diference.

    This complicates things for ANSI FL-1 output and throw measures, as output is taken at 3 mins into the run (which is typically slightly higher on Ramp Max that didn't have the burst mode), but throw/beam distance is calculated at 30 secs (where Momentary Ramp is definitely higher). As such, I have adjusted my tables below to reflect the absolute highest value (i.e. output is measured at 3 mins into the Ramp Max run, but throw/beam distance is measured at 30 secs into the Momentary Max run).

    Aside from these throw/beam distance values, all testing in this review was done on the Ramp output levels unless stated otherwise. As I am sure you can understand, I didn't plan to hold the button down for a couple of hours for runtimes.


    So how do the max ANSI FL-1 levels compare to the competition?







    Note that the Min lumen estimate is based on the Firefly mode. The lowest level of the continuously-variable ramp is shown in brackets beside it. As you will see, both the Firefly and lowest continuously-variable mode have increased on the Scorpion V2. In practical terms, I still find the Firefly quite low. However, it is disappointing that the ramp doesn’t go lower – this is likely a trade-off for current-control (on the V2) replacing PWM (on the V1).

    On Max, the V2 is very impressive – especially on 1x18650, where it clearly outshines the competition in this space (both for output and throw). On 2xRCR (IMR only, due to the excessive discharge rates), the V2 with standard head is in a virtual dead heat with my Lumintop TD-15X (both for output and throw). And with the Turbo head, it handily out-throws anything in this class.

    More than that, these numbers also show that the V2 with Turbo head out-throws my two furthest throwing XP-G R5 light – the Lumintop TD-15 and Armytek Predator. You can also see this in the outdoor beamshots shown earlier in this review.

    Given the high output of the Scorpion V2, I thought it would also be relevant to compare it to my 2x18650 XM-L-based lights:



    Consistent with what you saw in the outdoor beamshot comparisons earlier in this review, the Scorpion V2 with Turbo Head is pretty close in output and throw to the Fenix TK35 and JetBeam BC40!

    Output/Runtime Comparison:

    Note: Keep in mind that my lighbox's relative output scale is NOT linear over the range of outputs. And again, all runtimes were done in the Ramp output mode. Please refer to the tables above for a lumen estimate comparison of output.








    Note the V2 no longer shows the abrupt shut-off as the light nears the end of the run. The warning flash indicator now comes on slightly later as well (2.8V). I suspect both of these changes are in response to users' feedback (i.e. no one like a surprise shut-down of the light, or warning flashes too soon).

    Max output has increased across the board, on all batteries. Although 2xRCR is not recommended (due to the high discharge rate), IMR cells should be safe – as long as you manually terminate the run as soon as the light starts to flash.

    Output/runtime efficiency has also increased, likely thanks to the new current-controlled circuitry. By the time you get down to ~100 lumens or so, the V2 runs for twice as long as the V1.

    UPDATE JUNE 27, 2011: It seems the high drive level at max output may cause some CR123A batteries to eventually overheat and trigger their PTC protection circuits. Here is comparison of two battery brands, with and without external cooling.



    As you can see, at varying points into the run (depending on battery and cooling), output drops considerably then slowly recovers. This is likely due to the PTC limiting current in response to heat (as tested and discussed in more detail here). I have observed this behavior before, on a number of maximally-driven 4xCR123A lights. To be on the safe side, I recommend you do not run on max output for extended periods on this battery source.


    Potential Issues - Largely Resolved

    I am happy to report that many of the issues identified in my original V1 review have now been fixed/revised on the V2.

    In terms of the circuit, the visually-detectable PWM is gone (now current-controlled), as is the pre-flash on making initial battery-tailcap contact. Similarly, output/runtime efficiency has improved from before (which was low on the V1 for a XM-L based light). The Infinite Brightness feature now functions in an improved way (i.e. can reverse direction, no delay, faster and more visually-linear ramp). There are also a number of small tweaks to improve how the control ring functions, including improved mode switching and a revised mode order based on user feedback (see my UI discussion above).

    Build-wise, little has changed – except the tailcap/body tube contact ridge has been enlarged to ensure consistent operation. My V1 Scorpion had difficulty taking most of my high-capacity cells – but my V2 sample worked on everything I tried (although a few of the longer ones did require a bit of force to fully tighten).

    That being said, the tailcap control ring still has a fairly novel and unique action, which may take some getting used to (although it is more comparable to the Gladius now).

    The main new concern from the original V1 is the drive level of the V2 on Max and near-maximal levels is now much higher. These 3A/2.5A levels are too high for standard RCR – you would need to use IMR cells if you are to attempt it. In any case, I am always concerned about heat in maximally-driven lights – the Scorpions seem to have reasonably good heatsinking for their size, but I worry these levels may be pushing it pretty hard (i.e. output is in the same league as some 2x18650-sized lights).

    Use of current-control means that the Infinite Brightness mode cannot go down to as low a level as before (i.e. PWM can support much lower output levels). Current-control can also result in tint-shifting at lower outputs, but I didn’t notice anything significant on my V2. This is not seen on PWM, since the drive current is constant at full power (i.e. only the duty cycle changes). However, most users will likely prefer the increased efficiency and lack of flicker now (I know I do).

    UPDATE JUNE 27, 2011: It seems the high drive level at max output may cause CR123A batteries to eventually overheat and trigger their PTC protection circuits. I recommend you do not run on max output for extended periods on this battery source.


    Preliminary Observations

    The new V2 Scorpion may superficially look the same as old one, but a lot has changed "under the hood". The most obvious difference is when you turn it on – Max output has increased by over 50% in some cases (i.e.on 2xCR123A, from ~495 estimated initial lumens in my testing of the V1, to ~780 estimated initial lumens on the V2).

    What is even more impressive is how hard they have managed to drive it on a single 18650 cell. No doubt about it – this is the brightest 1x18650 XM-L based light I’ve tested to date. It also throws the farthest, especially with the optional Turbo head (more on that in a moment). It terms of output, Thurnite’s reported output lumen numbers seem very believable (I don’t have a calibrated integrating sphere to confirm, but my estimates are consistent).

    But a lot more has changed here than just Max output. The entire continuously-variable ramp has been redone with a new circuit that is current-controlled (i.e. no longer uses PWM). This has a number of immediate positives - most obviously, no flicker . It also means increased efficiency – by the time you reach ~100 lumens, the new V2 runs about twice as long as the V1. One downside to this change is the lowest level of the ramp is now about 5 times higher (i.e. 37 vs 7.3 estimated lumens in my testing).

    The other major circuit change is in the UI, where a number of obvious (and more subtle) changes have taken place. First off, the order of modes has changed (based on user feedback here). Personally, I do like seeing Momentary Max at the far end of the dial (easier to remember that way).

    But there are also all sorts of small changes that make the light more user-friendly, IMO. The connection pre-flash is gone, and you can now switch modes without having to turn the light off first. The activation delay when setting the continuously-variable ramp is gone, and you can now immediately reverse direction of the ramp by switching off-on.

    The new optional Turbo head is particularly impressive. Not only does it give the V2 best-in-class throw, it is also renders it the first XM-L light to match or out-throw all my dedicated XP-G R5 throwers (at least up to 100 yards). More than that, you get a similar beam profile (i.e. output, spill, and throw) to the 2x18650-based Fenix TK35 and JetBeam BC40 - but in a 1x18650-sized light. Of course, heat at these maximal levels will be a concern on the smaller Scorpion.

    It is nice to see a manufacturer listen to the feedback (and criticisms) of a given model, and come back with a significant improvement in a second version. It seems like Thrunite has addressed all the issues I identified in my original V1 review, and even thrown in a few bonuses like much higher output and a Turbo head throw option. If you are in the market for a "tactical" high-output XM-L light, the new Scorpion V2 has a lot to commend it.

    UPDATE JUNE 27, 2011: Note that there are potential issues with running this light on Max on 2xCR123A. Please see this thread for more info.

    ----

    Scorpion V2 provided by Thrunite for review.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 09-17-2013 at 12:34 PM.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. New: Selfbuilt's Summer Sale!
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  2. #2
    Flashaholic Chongker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Sounds great! Much more tempting than before now. The LED looks pretty easy to access for a swap as well, though it would be great if they came straight out with a neutral version =) Gonna keep looking out for a V2!

  3. #3
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Excellent review! Is it just me or the reflector looks a bit dirty?



    Well, well, well – this is the first XM-L light to actually throw as far (or further) than my dedicated XP-G R5 throw lights.
    Excellent! I am interested to see how will the other manufacturers response to this.

  4. #4
    Flashaholic CheepSteal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Awesome review, dude! Looks like I might have to sell some junk and start saving for a Scorpion v2 now. Glad to hear momentary max is on the most clockwise mode instead of strobe.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by ganymede View Post
    Excellent review! Is it just me or the reflector looks a bit dirty?
    No, if you look carefully, you'll see all the specks are in the same relative position with both reflectors and heads - indicating it must be debris on or around the emitter dome. It is simply being reflected and magnified by the angle of the pic (in much the same way as the emitter wire leds are magnified and distorted).

    I just gave the bare emitter a mild shot of compressed air, and the specks disappeared upon reassembly of the reflector/bezel. Given the open head (with the ability to swap reflector/bezels), it stands to reason some dust and debris will get in from time to time.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. New: Selfbuilt's Summer Sale!
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Thank you for yet another thorough, thoughtful review.

    I love my Thrunite Neutrons, but when the Scorpion came out, I remember thinking: meh. Way bigger, not much brighter, PWM, etc. The V2 sounds like an entirely different light. My meh has just been upgraded to an ooo.

    Cheers to Thrunite for listening, innovating, and delivering a vastly improved product.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* candle lamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Great review as usual. Thanks a lot!

    When battery voltage drop to around 2.9v, V1 become dim and flicker four times, and go out.

    Did you notice the flashing in V2 when the battery was nearing exhaustion as well?
    Last edited by candle lamp; 06-09-2011 at 03:30 AM.

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    Flashaholic Gryffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    So 2x16340 is a bad idea… What about 2x18350? At ~50% more capacity, and similar total capacity to a single 18650, seems to me it should be OK… Or is the 1x18650 performance good enough that two cells really aren't worth the trouble?
    "I'm not afraid of the dark. The dark is afraid of ME!"

  9. #9
    Enlightened
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    In the specs and places where it mentions 2XCR123A outputs there is no mention of IMR cells so it seems to be saying it is safe to use primary 123's in this light but not RCR123? Please excuse my noob ignorance if I'm reading something wrong.

    Also a comment and a question.

    Lumintop really got it right the first time huh? I believe they were first to the punch with this size of xm-l light, and they're still a standard of comparison. Of course from the looks of it I'd take this Scorpion with the turbo head in a heartbeat over the TD-15x but still impressive.

    How would the Dereelight DBS with xm-l stack up to these recently reviewed xm-l lights? I know it's too old to review, but it is also driven at 2.5 amps, and claims 27,000+ lux. If that's even remotely true wouldn't it have been the first xm-l of this size to throw with the xp-gs?


    Love your reviews selfbuilt! Keep 'em coming, you da man!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    I have just updated the review with more information and data around the 3A/2.5A burst-mode feature.

    The Scorpion V2 is driven harder for the first 1 min on Momentary Max on 2xRCR and 2xCR123A (i.e. 3A, then drops down to 2.5A), but not on the Max of the Infinite Brightness mode (i.e stays 2.5A on all batteries). Below are some tables comparing estimated lumen output in my lightbox, and corresponding throw/beam distance, for all batteries.







    As you can see, 2x battery sources are brighter for the first minute. I also see a slight initial increase in the 1x18650 Momentary Max mode, but this is relatively minor compared to the 2x diference.

    This complicates things for ANSI FL-1 output and throw measures, as output is taken at 3 mins into the run (which is typically slightly higher on Ramp Max that didn't have the burst mode), but throw/beam distance is calculated at 30 secs (where Momentary Ramp is definitely higher). As such, I have adjusted my Summary tables in the review to reflect the absolute highest value (i.e. output is measured at 3 mins into the Ramp Max run, but throw/beam distance is measured at 30 secs into the Momentary Max run).

    Aside from these throw/beam distance values, all testing in this review was done on the Ramp output levels unless stated otherwise. As I am sure you can understand, I didn't plan to hold the button down for a couple of hours for runtimes.

    Hope that helps clear things up.

    Quote Originally Posted by candle lamp View Post
    Did you notice the flashing in V2 when the battery was nearing exhaustion as well?
    Yes, the light does begin to flash as the battery drains. But the output never cuts out now - the light will go on draining the batteries. Even my protected AW 18650 continued to drop to very low levels.

    This is a problem with 1x18650 in a lot of lights - you can't rely on the battery protection circuit to cut-out at a reasonable voltage (I don't recall exactly, but I believe the built-in cut-off feature is in the 2.3-2.4V range). Normally this isn't a problem if you hit it when running at high drain - the cell will almost immediately bounce back to >2.7V and continue to slowly climb back up. But in lights that drop into dim moon modes (as many multi-power lights will on 1x18650), you will drain protected batteries to unsafe levels (i.e. they will stay at ~2.4V for an extended time if left to slowly drain).

    But fortunately the low voltage flash will warn you on the V2 in plenty of time, so you are unlikely to let that happen unless you continue to run it for hours after the flashing starts. It's really only a problem for those of us doing unsupervised runtimes (i.e. overnight runs).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryffin View Post
    So 2x16340 is a bad idea… What about 2x18350? At ~50% more capacity, and similar total capacity to a single 18650, seems to me it should be OK… Or is the 1x18650 performance good enough that two cells really aren't worth the trouble?
    Hmmm, 2x18350 might be alright, given their higher capacity. But honestly, the difference between 2x and 1x battery sources isn't that great (especially after the first 1 min of burst mode). I would recommend running the light on 1x18650.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 06-09-2011 at 08:43 AM.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    thanks for the additional info.. i'm trying to find more info on pros/cons of battery choices but am not coming up with much. You would recommend the 18650 as the best battery choice? x2 shows better numbers, but not necessarily the best choice?

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* AardvarkSagus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Wow. Kudos to you again for such an excellent review. Sounds like they did well with the V2 variant. Love reading your stuff. Very thorough.
    Last edited by AardvarkSagus; 06-09-2011 at 10:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by dajabec View Post
    In the specs and places where it mentions 2XCR123A outputs there is no mention of IMR cells so it seems to be saying it is safe to use primary 123's in this light but not RCR123? Please excuse my noob ignorance if I'm reading something wrong.

    Also a comment and a question.

    Lumintop really got it right the first time huh? I believe they were first to the punch with this size of xm-l light, and they're still a standard of comparison. Of course from the looks of it I'd take this Scorpion with the turbo head in a heartbeat over the TD-15x but still impressive.

    How would the Dereelight DBS with xm-l stack up to these recently reviewed xm-l lights? I know it's too old to review, but it is also driven at 2.5 amps, and claims 27,000+ lux. If that's even remotely true wouldn't it have been the first xm-l of this size to throw with the xp-gs?


    Love your reviews selfbuilt! Keep 'em coming, you da man!
    I was wondering the same thing about the DBS. I just ordered one with the extender for 2 18500s. Now I am wondering if I need to get this one too! With the turbo head, it looks to have a slightly shorter length than the DBS and with support for 1 18650 (The DBS xml needs more voltage so 2 cells only...)

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Thanks for the great and thorough review. Did you try to swap the tailcaps of the two versions? I wonder if the V2 tailcap would work and fit on the V1.

    Thanks
    Cheers
    Thorsten

  15. #15
    Flashaholic Gryffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    But honestly, the difference between 2x and 1x battery sources isn't that great (especially after the first 1 min of burst mode).
    Not for that first minute on Max! As you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    As you can see, 2x battery sources are brighter for the first minute. I also see a slight initial increase in the 1x18650 Momentary Max mode, but this is relatively minor compared to the 2x diference.
    If I wanna dazzle somebody, I'm gonna want that extra kick.

    Actually, after re-reading your review, I'm thinking 2x18350 may not fit. You mention that some of your large-capacity 18650s were too long; there probably isn't enough length to make contact with 70mm of cells in the pipe. I have that problem with the TD-15X.
    "I'm not afraid of the dark. The dark is afraid of ME!"

  16. #16

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Excellent review Selfbuilt. Great job by Thrunite too, seems to be improvements all round and that output from one cell . Glad a holster is now included as standard - a light in this class needs one. It really should have been included first time round.

    Thrunite are really showing themselves to be an innovative company with great products. I have a Catapult V2 XM-L which I rate very highly - it is a superb light. The Scorpian didn't interest me first time round but that may change with the V2.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by dajabec View Post
    In the specs and places where it mentions 2XCR123A outputs there is no mention of IMR cells so it seems to be saying it is safe to use primary 123's in this light but not RCR123? Please excuse my noob ignorance if I'm reading something wrong.
    To quote the manual: "(2.7-8.4V), don't fit 2 16340 batteries since it's high current discharge."

    I take that to mean they don't officially support RCR, period. But the voltage range would seem to just allow it, and the concern expressed is specifically for high current. Since IMR can handle the current (and the output/heat would be no worse than 2xCR123A), I figured it was worthwhile giving it a try. Besides, I know members here would do it anyway . But without official word from Thrunite on the matter, you would be taking a risk.

    How would the Dereelight DBS with xm-l stack up to these recently reviewed xm-l lights?
    No idea, since the last Dereelight I have is the XR-E R2 continuously variable.

    Quote Originally Posted by 00birdy View Post
    thanks for the additional info.. i'm trying to find more info on pros/cons of battery choices but am not coming up with much. You would recommend the 18650 as the best battery choice? x2 shows better numbers, but not necessarily the best choice?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryffin View Post
    Not for that first minute on Max! As you said: If I wanna dazzle somebody, I'm gonna want that extra kick.
    It's true that 2x gives you higher output on Momentary. But if you compare the tables for 2xRCR vs 1x18650 (both on momentary), you'll see the difference is only ~8-9% over the first minute. Personally, I don't find that enough to really see a difference in use.

    I generally recommend 1x18650 for the extra capacity and greater safety (i.e. with two cells, there's always a potential risk if one of them fails and creates a charging imbalance inside the light).

    Actually, after re-reading your review, I'm thinking 2x18350 may not fit. You mention that some of your large-capacity 18650s were too long; there probably isn't enough length to make contact with 70mm of cells in the pipe. I have that problem with the TD-15X.
    That's a good point - the tolerances may not support the extra height. The largest cell I tried was 69.2mm, and it required a fair bit of force to fully tighten. All my cells <69mm were fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xacto View Post
    Thanks for the great and thorough review. Did you try to swap the tailcaps of the two versions? I wonder if the V2 tailcap would work and fit on the V1.
    Yes, the tailcaps seem to be identical - each one worked on the other version. Of course, the circuit in the head controls what each light does ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bass View Post
    Excellent review Selfbuilt. Great job by Thrunite too, seems to be improvements all round and that output from one cell . Glad a holster is now included as standard - a light in this class needs one. It really should have been included first time round.
    Yes, but I should point out the holster was designed for the standard head. It is easiest to use if the you insert the light head-down (i.e. the tailcap grip can be a bit awkward to put in tail-first). But with the Turbo head, you need to put it in tail-first - and the flap then just barely closes over the larger head.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 06-09-2011 at 02:35 PM.
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  18. #18
    Flashaholic* candle lamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    But fortunately the low voltage flash will warn you on the V2 in plenty of time, so you are unlikely to let that happen unless you continue to run it for hours after the flashing starts. It's really only a problem for those of us doing unsupervised runtimes (i.e. overnight runs).
    The V2 user can use unprotected 18650 with no worries, but he should not sleep putting his light on.
    Thanks for your reply again.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    Yes, the tailcaps seem to be identical - each one worked on the other version. Of course, the circuit in the head controls what each light does ...

    [...]
    Thanks, that is good news for the V1 users in case a replacement is needed.

    Cheers
    Thorsten

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* nanotech17's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    this light definately gonna be my next buy - especially with the Turbo head on it - simply stunning throw & brighter in its class.
    thanks Selfbuilt for the review & your time with it.



  21. #21

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    hello,

    would i be able to use these http://www.survivallaser.com/RCR123A...8_2259725.aspx with the flashlight?

    greetings!

  22. #22

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    FYI, Thrunite informs me that the standby current for the Scorpion V2 is only 30 uA. So a typical 18650 cell should last for about a decade or so. But I am unable to verify this directly, as the tailcap is required to complete the circuit (i.e. electronic switch). If worried, you can always untwist the tailcap to break the current.

    I also understand from their CPFMP thread that they aren't currently planning to sell the Turbo head separately, but rather as a seperate version for sale (i.e. Scorpion Turbo). Check with Thrunite for more info.
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    What would happen if i used 2 3,7v RCR123A's?
    What are actually the best batteries rcr123 or 18650?

    greetings!

  24. #24
    Flashaholic Chongker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    A little unsure of which one to get right now. Their current lineup in order of increasing throw would be:

    Neutron -> Scorpion -> Scorpion Turbo -> Catapult

    Already have the Neutron and Catapult, and one of the scorpions would be nice to fill in the slot in between (technically filled in by other flashlight brands already, but lets not go there ). Just unsure of which of the two would be functionally better though, decisions decisions.

    Would be nice to get the separate turbohead, then it'll be possible to lego.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by scheven_architect View Post
    What would happen if i used 2 3,7v RCR123A's?
    On max and near-max, you would damage the batteries. At a minimum, this would quickly result in degraded performance and inability to keep a charge (i.e. high self-discharge). It would also make them inherently unstable and unsafe to charge. Please see the batteries sub-forum to consult the experts.

    Again, only IMR chemistry is capable of handling this sort of discharge rate. If unsure, simply don't use 2xRCR.
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  26. #26

    Default

    How can primaries handle it?

  27. #27

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    I just checked Thrunite's site which turned out to be one of the least up-to-date flashlight sites I have seen. It doesn't even mention the original Scorpion. Battery Junction's Thrunite page does not yet list the V2.

    Flashaholic frustration!

    Brightnorm

  28. #28

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    How can primaries handle it?
    Different chemistry again. Primaries can handle quite a bit in some regards, but also have their own limitations (i.e. they can get quite hot internally). But real capacity is higher than protected RCR, so discharge rate is lower. Still, I wouldn't recommend running primaries on Max for extended periods either (mainly for heat) - 18650 would be the best way to go.

    Rechargeable Li-ion chemistry has different needs, and care has to be taken in how you treat them if you expect them to retain a charge (and retaining charging ability). I wouldn't be surprised to see >4C discharge rates on standard protected RCR here (and no, I'm not going to test it - I go through enough cells as it is, without that abuse ).

    Much the same issue with the TD-15X - it's a common problem when you drive things this hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by brightnorm View Post
    I just checked Thrunite's site which turned out to be one of the least up-to-date flashlight sites I have seen. It doesn't even mention the original Scorpion. Battery Junction's Thrunite page does not yet list the V2.
    Yeah, I recommend you check out the CPFMP manufacturer's subforum for up to date info - Thrunite seems to post quite regularly there.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. New: Selfbuilt's Summer Sale!
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  29. #29

    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Forgot to mention something so obvious that it hardly needs mentioning: Great review!

    brightnorm
    Last edited by brightnorm; 06-12-2011 at 07:16 PM.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* tre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Wow. Thanks for detailing the new vs the "old". What an amazing single 18650 light. So far, all the single cell 18650 xml lights have not really peaked my interest until this one. The amount of lumens and throw from this reasonable sized light is pretty amazing. I may have to replace my Maelstrom G5 XPG R5.

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