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Thread: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

  1. #1
    Flashaholic dta116's Avatar
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    Default Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    The need is for a 50w or so spot with a good beam (maybe orange peel reflector).

    I have a Lightforce Walkabout (30w) w/ 12v gel battery pack that I would like to use because it has variable power. It would be nice to just plug the light head into the battery socket (automotive lighter plug).

    The adjustable beam on the Lightforce is horrible. It is in bad need of a better reflector.

    It is a great concept with lousy execution.

    Still looking for a much better alternative, maybe an HID or something in the range of 4500-6000 kelvin, preferably a warmer brighter light that I can vary the intensity/temperature.

    Thanks to all of you in advance, I have found this forum to be informative and inspiring.
    Incandescent - Surefire C3, P91, 2 17670's (Modded) LED - Surefire L4, 17670, EDC- HDS U60GT, RCR123 Dive Light - UK 4AA e-Led HID - Mag85, 9x14500 Colored - Pal-Lite, Red, Green, Blue

  2. #2
    Flashaholic dta116's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    I cannot believe there is no response to the thread, I have always felt these forums were of tremendous help. Maybe I am in the wrong section, is everyone using flashlights and not flood/spotlights? Maybe it's because I don't need a 1000w atom splitter.

    Anyway if this is the wrong forum, please let me know, there are bound to be more photographers out there that are in these forums.

    Thanks again
    Incandescent - Surefire C3, P91, 2 17670's (Modded) LED - Surefire L4, 17670, EDC- HDS U60GT, RCR123 Dive Light - UK 4AA e-Led HID - Mag85, 9x14500 Colored - Pal-Lite, Red, Green, Blue

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    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    Default

    If you want to get the attention of the photographers, you should try posting in The Dark Room sub forum.

    I don't know of any spotlights that can vary their CCT, without using a filter.

    Could you get away with using a single mode HID light, and using different coloured / opacity filters?

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    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Quote Originally Posted by mvyrmnd View Post

    I don't know of any spotlights that can vary their CCT, without using a filter.
    Yeah, what mvyrmnd said........

    Polarion makes the underwater photography specific Abyss "D" model which is diffused and 5500K. It's $1500+. If that doesn't work, you might check out magnalight.com and look at their HID lights since many of them run on 12V power via a lighter plug.

    The nice thing about photography is its world wide popularity. It's community is millions of times larger than the flashlight enthusiast community and virtually every possibly dilemma you could run into has been encountered and overcome by someone else in that area of expertise. Therefore, give one of the photography forums a shout out since you're not getting your questions satisfied here.

  5. #5
    Flashaholic dta116's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Thanks Patriot, Not as many photographers as you may think do landscape light painting. Most of them consider "light painting" to be a fad that you carry an LED light around and draw circles to create your name on the picture.

    But Thanks for your input.
    Incandescent - Surefire C3, P91, 2 17670's (Modded) LED - Surefire L4, 17670, EDC- HDS U60GT, RCR123 Dive Light - UK 4AA e-Led HID - Mag85, 9x14500 Colored - Pal-Lite, Red, Green, Blue

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* Walterk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Read your question before but assumed you concluded to look for a better reflector for your light.
    So actually you look for a bright light with nice beam pattern / good reflector and adjustable intensity and colour temperature?

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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    dta116, if you would like me to move this thread to the Dark Room, just let me know.

    I've had a little experience of this, and if the subject to be lit is large you are right to look for a very bright light source, otherwise you will need very long exposure times. The effect will usually be DFN, so maybe you don't need to worry too much about the color temp.
    Resistance is futile...

  8. #8
    Flashaholic dta116's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    You may move the post to the Darkroom forum if you like, the flood is to brighten certain objects in the sceen, not to reduce exposure time.

    Thanks.
    Incandescent - Surefire C3, P91, 2 17670's (Modded) LED - Surefire L4, 17670, EDC- HDS U60GT, RCR123 Dive Light - UK 4AA e-Led HID - Mag85, 9x14500 Colored - Pal-Lite, Red, Green, Blue

  9. #9
    Flashaholic dta116's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    For any of you who wonder what kind of light painting I am talking about....





    Incandescent - Surefire C3, P91, 2 17670's (Modded) LED - Surefire L4, 17670, EDC- HDS U60GT, RCR123 Dive Light - UK 4AA e-Led HID - Mag85, 9x14500 Colored - Pal-Lite, Red, Green, Blue

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    Flashaholic* EV_007's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Nice wok dta116. I like the warm tones contrasting nicely against the deep blue sky.

    I find either a neutral or high CRI LED or a good incan works well for light painting.

    I've used the HDS EDC CRI 100 and the Surefire 9P for longer distant illumination. I prefer the incan for the higher output in a good CRI factor as well.
    TWO is ONE and ONE is NONE, but THREE is more FUN.
    My beamshot gallery


  11. #11
    Flashaholic dta116's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    EV, Thanks for the kudos, I have found the Surefire M3T. what do you think about that one as an Incan? I think incan will work better because of a lower color temp.

    Dave
    Incandescent - Surefire C3, P91, 2 17670's (Modded) LED - Surefire L4, 17670, EDC- HDS U60GT, RCR123 Dive Light - UK 4AA e-Led HID - Mag85, 9x14500 Colored - Pal-Lite, Red, Green, Blue

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    Flashaholic* EV_007's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    I have and love the M3T. That thing really throws the beam well. Incan is warm, but allows wider light spectrum. (CRI)

    if you get the SureFire A19 extender, you can use two 17670 lithium rechargeables for "gult free' lumens. This is the setup I currently have for my bump-in-the-night light.

    It is also kinda narrow beam, the price you pay for a deep reflector that throws a long way. You may need to sweep it back and fourth during the duration of your exposure.
    TWO is ONE and ONE is NONE, but THREE is more FUN.
    My beamshot gallery


  13. #13
    Flashaholic dta116's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Have you tried the defuser with that light? I wonder if you can make it an M3LT?

    Also do you know how 225 lumens compare to 100w?
    Incandescent - Surefire C3, P91, 2 17670's (Modded) LED - Surefire L4, 17670, EDC- HDS U60GT, RCR123 Dive Light - UK 4AA e-Led HID - Mag85, 9x14500 Colored - Pal-Lite, Red, Green, Blue

  14. #14

    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Hello folks,

    Quote Originally Posted by EV_007 View Post
    I have and love the M3T. That thing really throws the beam well. Incan is warm, but allows wider light spectrum. (CRI)
    As someone who is currently looking into purchasing a couple of flashlights, your post has raised a question for me: does using an LED flashlight cause any issues with colour temperature that are difficult or impossible to correct in post processing by changing the colour temperature for white balance?

    Rob

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    Flashaholic from Mars Leoht's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    I use Siteco metal halide spot lights and a small yamaha generator. The spot lights can be configured to be 35, 70 & 150watt, smooth or orange peel reflectors. I run Osram lamps and i have both 3000k and 4200k, 35w & 150w. The 150 watt lamp Delivers an astonishing 14,500 lumens.










    The Yamaha generator is quiet and can power five 150w Siteco spotlights.

    SiCOMPACT® R1 MINI-S


    YAMAHA EF1000IS


    Leoht.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Folks

    I've been doing some additional reading. It seems that poor quality LEDs have a low Colour Rendering Index (CRI). However, the flashlights I am looking to potentially purchase use Cree LEDs which, I have read, are high quality. Unfortunately I have been unable to find out the CRI value for Cree LEDs such as the XP-G LED.

    Can anyone help me? I'm hoping someone can confirm (or not) that using a flashlight with Cree LEDs for light painting will not return a colour temperature that is difficult to correct in post processing.

    Cheers,

    Rob

  17. #17

    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Leoht (or anyone else too),

    This may be a silly question, but if I wanted to create a similar backlighting effect as can be seen in your third photo, would it be best to use a torch with a concentrated beam or one with a wide spill?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Hello? Is there anybody out there?

    Doesn't anyone frequent this forum? Should I take my questions elsewhere?

  19. #19
    Flashaholic from Mars Leoht's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Quote Originally Posted by AreBee View Post
    Hello? Is there anybody out there?

    Doesn't anyone frequent this forum? Should I take my questions elsewhere?
    Sorry AreBee but I have been on shift and i dont always get the opportunity to log on whilst at work.
    Welcome to CPF.
    As to your question about spot or spill a floodier light is best. To recreate the effect in my third photo you may need several Flashlights/Torchs to get the contrast between light and dark, depending on how much ambient light is present. I took that picture when there was no moon and used three 150 watt siteco hid's It was slightly foggy, that perfect amount of fog that is the secret.
    Last edited by Leoht; 11-04-2011 at 02:52 AM. Reason: Because I can.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Hey Leoht,

    Thanks very much for responding. Hopefully you or others can help me out in selecting a flashlight for use in creating a specific photograph I have in mind.

    I would like to set up my DSLR on a tripod for a long exposure, triggered by remote release. The subject in the photograph will be a wind turbine (approximately 100m in height). I will be positioned behind the turbine, out of direct line of sight of the camera, and begin the exposure when I have pointed a flashlight (or some source of light) at the turbine and switched it on.

    I am aware that I will require a high powered light and had been looking at the Olight SR90 (if a thrower was ideal) or the JetBeam RRT XML (if a spill light was ideal). Ideally I would steer clear of using an LED light due to the non standard white balance, but from my limited searching online, incandesent flashlights are nowhere near as high powered as LED flashlights, and unfortunately an HID is too pricey for what is, ultimately, a photographic experiment. In other words it may not turn out nearly as good as I have visualised it in my head. I'll find a way to get around the issue of white balance in post processing.

    Can you or anyone else offer me any advice? Bear in mind that I will be hiking to the wind farm so vehicle mounted lighting is out. Remember also that the shot can be as long an exposure as is required and therefore I figure that even if a high powered flashlight isn't sufficiently powerful to expose the turbine silhouette, I can always (and expect to anyway) repeatedly paint the turbine over its full height with the flashlight to expose to a greater extent (clearly lots of experimentation will be required for this shot).

    Cheers,

    Rob
    Last edited by AreBee; 11-04-2011 at 01:17 PM.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Quote Originally Posted by AreBee View Post
    . . . . I am aware that I will require a high powered light and had been looking at the Olight SR90 (if a thrower was ideal) or the JetBeam RRT XML (if a spill light was ideal). Ideally I would steer clear of using an LED light due to the non standard white balance, but from my limited searching online, incandesent flashlights are nowhere near as high powered as LED flashlights, . . . .
    A spotlamp with a 50 watt bulb powered by a 7 amp hour gelcell will be SO MUCH cheaper.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Mike,

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAusC View Post
    A spotlamp with a 50 watt bulb powered by a 7 amp hour gelcell will be SO MUCH cheaper.
    I am all for minimising cost. However, I am even more for purchasing the correct tool for the job.

    Wind turbines are fairly large structures and as noted previously, I had assumed that I would need to light paint the turbine tower and especially the blades (most distant from my position) to achieve the backlit effect that I am after. You are undoubtedly more knowledgable on the subject than I, but 50W doesn't sound particularly powerful to me. After all, house lights are commonly 100W or so, and I can't imagine one of those lighting up a 100m tall wind turbine.

    Are you sure a 50W spot light will be (more than) suitable? If so, can you recommend a manufacturer/model for me to investigate?
    Last edited by AreBee; 11-04-2011 at 02:37 PM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    A car Headlight is 50 watts, a car HID Headlight is 35 watts.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Mike,

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAusC View Post
    A car Headlight is 50 watts, a car HID Headlight is 35 watts.
    I should probably point out that for the shot I have in mind the camera is likely to be as much as several hundred meters distant from the wind turbine.

    I happened to be driving this evening and have considered the light output from the car's headlights. If 50W compares to the headlights when dipped then 50W is insufficient in my opinion. If, on the other hand 50W compares to the headlights on full beam, then 50W (min) may well be sufficient for my needs. Can you confirm which of these two cases is the correct one?

    A product recommendation would be appreciated. When I searched yesterday evening all I got was ceiling spot lights, and I presume you do not intend that I use one of those.

  25. #25
    Flashaholic dta116's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    AreBee, If you are looking for a great portable unit, I have a new one for sale.

    It is a Lightforce Walkabout. This Kit was purchased for my Son but he has other interests now and it has never been used. I also purchased a 75W bulb and a defuser to spread the light, again, never used.

    You can replace the bulbs with any automotive type H3 up to 150W.

    For more info you may PM or email me.

    Dave
    Incandescent - Surefire C3, P91, 2 17670's (Modded) LED - Surefire L4, 17670, EDC- HDS U60GT, RCR123 Dive Light - UK 4AA e-Led HID - Mag85, 9x14500 Colored - Pal-Lite, Red, Green, Blue

  26. #26
    Flashaholic from Mars Leoht's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    I think my Sr 90 would have a beam that is to tight for what you are thinking. I would try somthing a lot more floodier. Mac's customs 3300l comes to mind.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Leoht,

    Quote Originally Posted by Leoht View Post
    I think my Sr 90 would have a beam that is to tight for what you are thinking. I would try somthing a lot more floodier. Mac's customs 3300l comes to mind.
    Thanks very much for the advice. I've checked out the 3300L and if I'm not mistaken it is priced at approximately $400? If so, we are in the same price 'ball park' as the JetBeam RRT XML, which I understand also is significantly more 'floody' than the SR 90. Both are LED as far as I can tell.

    Do you have any comment on the JetBeam? Also, do you have any experience of correcting white balance in photos where an LED flashlight has been used? If someone could reassure me that correcting white balance for LED flash lights was relatively straightforward then I would be very keen on this type of flashlight, given their huge brightness/cost ratio.

    Cheers,

    Rob

  28. #28
    Flashaholic from Mars Leoht's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Sorry Rob but i dont have any experience with Jetbeam I have never used one. However i know a bloke who has a 3300l with warm led's. I have had a chance to play with it and love it.

    As for correcting white balance it is possable with photoshop but it is easier if you shoot in RAW format, you can also corect white balance on most DSLR's.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    ...i know a bloke who has a 3300l with warm led's. I have had a chance to play with it and love it.
    I've sent an email of to Mac's Customs and will let the forum know how that develops.

    As for correcting white balance it is possable with photoshop but it is easier if you shoot in RAW format, you can also corect white balance on most DSLR's.
    I do shoot exclusively RAW and am used to correcting white balance, where necessary. However, my understanding is that LEDs are deficient in, if I remember, red and green wavelengths of light, making correcting white balance non-standard. Am I mistaken? Is correcting white balance in photographs shot using LED flashlights fairly straightforward?

  30. #30
    Flashaholic from Mars Leoht's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a spotlight for Photgraphic lightpainting

    Now that i think of it, I did some picks of some special tooling that i had made for a machine at work and had trouble getting it to look the way i wanted. We have those 100w LED highbay lights in there, that explaines why. yes i know what you mean now. In any case stick with the warm tints they always look better straight of the camera. I know that my SR 90 is a very blueish tint compared to my XML lights.

    For intrest sake i just orderd a Zebralight sc600w 4200K so when i get it (cristmas present from my girlfrend) i will have to try some picks to see how it goes.

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