What is the best charger for Eneloops, 18650's and 14500's?

ScaryFatKidGT

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As the title states. I'm getting some batteries and id like to take care of the investments I'm about to make. Also I want at least 4 banks.

Is there one that will do them all?
 
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TooManyGizmos

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~

You'll need what it commonly referred to here as a "Hobby style charger" .

Thats the only way to have only ONE charger to charge ALL types of cells .


I think they start around $40.00 ....... and there is a learning curve .


Study about all the various internal battery chemistry used .

~
 

45/70

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Hi Scary. There really isn't any "all-in-one" solution for charging both eneloops and Li-Ion cells, unless you follow the route TMG suggested. The problem with hobby chargers is that unless you are always charging welded, or soldered NiMh battery packs, which is what they are designed to do, they aren't that suitable for charging individual NiMh (or NiCd) cells. The exception is, if you always charge them at a 0.1C rate (~14-16hrs) setup in a series string, or one cell at a time at any rate faster than that.

The best solution is to obtain a decent NiMh charger, and a hobby charger, if you want to always have the capability to charge up to four cells at a time. 99% of the time, that's how I do it. There are a few cheap "consumer type" cradle chargers that will charge both NiMh and Li-Ion cells, but most are only one or two bay and the quality is rather low, so personally, I'd steer clear of them.

Dave
 

jhn.holgate

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I have a Detrum DC 6 hobby charger which I use on my Liion cells and Lipoly packs. I also charge my 4x AA and 4 x AAA flight packs quite successfully. Occasionally I have grabbed a generic 4/6/8 x AA cell battery holder and loaded them with nicads or NiMh cells - I had to make up a 9v snap to charger lead but that seemed ok. I can't see the difference between charging a ready bought eneloop flight pack and putting four seperate eneloops into a plastic 4xAA holder and charging them. I usually charge at .5 C without problems. If there is a difference, I'd be happy to find out!
 

45/70

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If there is a difference, I'd be happy to find out!

The difference is that with an R/C pack, you have 4 cells welded together and you have no choice but to charge them in series. For the most part, this is OK. The cells have been charged together, as well as dicharged together, so they are pretty much in the same condition.

On the other hand, four random individual cells that have been installed in different devices, not as a "set", eg. two used in a two cell device and the other two used in two different single cell lights, for example, are not going to be exactly the same when you go to charge them. When these cells are charged in a NiMh charger with independent channels, each cell will receive a charge customized for it's needs.

If these same four cells are hooked up in series, and charged with a hobby charger, some of the cells will end up being overcharged, and some cells undercharged. Over time this imbalance will add up, which will shorten cell life. There's really nothing that can be done about it, except to only charge cells in series at a 0.1C rate, when charging in series. The same drawback applies to chargers that only charge in pairs. They charge in series as well, and this is why they are not a preferred type of charger, again, unless they charge at 0.1C, or "overnight".

If you've ever noticed, battery packs never last as long as individual cells. The above explanation is usually the reason why that is. The exception here, is that some "pack" chargers charge "overnight" or at 0.1C. These chargers generally promote decent cell life.

Again, concerning NiMh and NiCd cells, hobby chargers are primarily designed for charging welded battery packs where you have no choice but to charge cells in series. They fall short however, when the option to charge cells individually in an independent channel charger is available.

Dave
 

jhn.holgate

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Yes, I would not contemplate putting cells of different charge states in series to charge. I was thinking of a batch of cells pulled from the same device which should be in a similar state of discharge and even then I would sometimes check them with a multi meter. Most of the better nicad/NiMH dedicated chargers monitor individual cells so I would agree that they are a better choice. But with a little care, hobby chargers can be incredibly versatile.
 

45/70

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...... I was thinking of a batch of cells pulled from the same device which should be in a similar state of discharge and even then I would sometimes check them with a multi meter.

Yes, in this situation you stand a better chance of obtaining reasonable cell longevity. Checking cell voltage with a DMM is not a very accurate method to determine the SOC of nickel based cells however. A load tester along the lines of the ZTS that applies a load during testing would be a better solution. Even this type of tester only gives an approximate evaluation of the charge state, but gives a more accurate estimate than measuring voltage alone.

Just the same, It's unusual for cells in a welded pack to last even half as long as similar cells that are loose, and charged in an independent channel charger. I might add that I've been at this since I started using individual cylindrical NiCd cells in the early 1980's. NiCd's were and are much more tolerant of overcharge, than NiMh cells and stand a much better chance of surviving abuse. I think this is why many tool battery packs still use NiCd cells.

Also, as I mentioned previously, device specific pack chargers that charge packs for 14-16hrs (0.1C), do better, but even they don't seem to preserve cell life as well as charging cells individually.

Dave
 

ScaryFatKidGT

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Isn't the eneloop MQR05 the 4x4? and the MQR06 the 4x2 that they sell now?

Any way Il get 2 chargers then. I want the eneloop AA/AAA/C/D charger to have at least 4 independent bays then Il get a lith ion charger for both id like them to have auto shut off or something to prolong battery life but I want it to have the batterys FULLY charged first obviously.

For the lith ion I'm only really going to charge 18650's but it would be nice to be able to charge 14500's and RCR123's.
 

beerwax

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MQR06 is 4 independant channels with a choice of fast medium or slow charge. it has no visible led charging indicators but they are there they shine thru the plastic.

if the sanyo charger you are looking at has 2 led charging indicators then it is a 2 channel charger and will charge in pairs. there is a lot of these on offer and they will work but you are better off with the mqr06. or the sony.

these chargers are good performing chargers at a medium price. you can pay more for a better charger but im not qualified enough to comment on em. but someone will chime in and these guys really know there stuff. the mid price chargers i have mentioned wont do a discharge or a capacity measure.
the sony i mention was being sold on amazon US for about 6 bucks with batteries.
 
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ScaryFatKidGT

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Well is the MQRO6 the best NmHi charger? Iv heard the Pilla charger is the best for lith ion?

I searched and I don't think the MQR06 is available in the states :/
 
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samm

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I use the Pila when my 18650's are more than 20-30% depleted and a Trustfire Multifunctional Model TR-001( brought recently from Going Gear,( hopefully seems like latest version)) for my 14500 and 18650's an 16340's to top them off. Then I use a Maha MH C9000 for my rechargebles AA and AAA NiMH. The Maha is great as well as the Pila. I use a ZTS pulse load Multi Battery tester and a good Multimeter for sure on the Lithion Ions. Tomorrow I'm buying a piece of tin or something to set the chargers on while charging. Also a safer fireproof box to store my batteries in. Like an old lined ammo box or a lined toolbox, maybe put some ventilation hole in them. So if they do vent I might have at least some protection.. I keep my batteries stored in car trunk in a Pelican box (12 xCR123's) and another with Eneloops AA and AAA. Does anyone know if this is safe since they are so airtight in these boxes. I keep them in the trunk, which usually is fairly cool. When the outside temp are over 85 to 90 I bring all but the lights in the house. Have not had a problem so far. Anyone see's any safety issues please let me know. So to answer you questions Pila and Maha, and then poss Trustfire although I know there have been issues in the past I believe. Good luck!
 

45/70

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I use the Pila when my 18650's are more than 20-30% depleted and a Trustfire Multifunctional Model TR-001...... for my 14500 and 18650's an 16340's to top them off......

......and then poss Trustfire although I know there have been issues in the past I believe. Good luck!

It is this "topping off" ability that is a major flaw in most all of the inexpensive Li-Ion chargers. This is the primary deviation from the recommended charging algorithm that promotes damage to Li-Ion cells.

When the voltage of a Li-Ion cell is near it's maximum, towards the end of charge, this is when the cell is most vulnerable to rapid oxidation of the electrodes due to the charging process. In order to reduce this negative effect, the proper charging algorithm recommendation calls for a reduction in charge rate at this stage of the charge. This is called the "CV", or "Constant Voltage" stage whereupon the charging circuit voltage is maintained at a constant level (4.20 Volts for LiCo/LiMn, and 3.60 Volts for LiFe cells) and the current level is allowed to drop to a certain predetermined point where the charge process is terminated.

Most chargers (a couple of exceptions being the Pila IBC, and hobby chargers) either eliminate the CV stage entirely, or modify it so as to maintain the higher charging current of the initial CC (Constant Current) stage until the cell voltage (not the charging circuit voltage) is at, or near the maximum allowable cell voltage. This alteration of the recommended charging algorithm will result in a higher state of charge of the cell, but at the expense of the aforementioned excessive oxidation of the cell's electrodes. The same result can be obtained by charging the cell at a higher CV charging circuit voltage, which is not recommended, as this also will promote unnecessary oxidation of the cell's electrodes, as well.

So anyway, yes, you can use these chargers to "top off" cells, but there is a penalty. The preferred method to obtain a fuller charge when charging Li-Ion cells, is to use a lower charge rate utilizing a proper algorithm. This will allow a more fully charged cell and at the same time reduce the length of time the cell spends in the CV stage thus reducing any unnecessary oxidation of the cell. As for the Pila, while not perfect, it does a pretty good job of following the recommended charging algorithm with cells of ~1500mAh or higher. Any additional charge applied to cells of this capacity range will likely cause some degree of damage to the cells. The downside of the Pila concerning smaller cells, is that it will terminate the charge prematurely, as the CV stage current termination level is a bit high for such cells. This will result in slightly less capacity, albeit, not that much.

Dave
 

samm

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Thanks 45/70 for your excellent answer and for explaining the "CV Stage" which I was wondering about and all the other info. I get most of it, still being somewhat new. Are the any specific changes you would make in my routine? Different type charger or like letting the cells discharge more so I don't need to not use the pila (which shows charged/green at around 4.0 V.) And use the Trustfire, which will show red for half another hour or more with the same cell. Just that the pila won't charge a cell over 4.0 and the Trustfire will. My AW's will go directly to green/charged if the MV says anything close to 4.0 which I understand is about 80% charged. Any opinion on keeping them stored in the airtight Pelican for my trunk in all but extreme heat? I still have a ton to learn, so thanks again. (And if it doesn''t make sense it's because its 4 AM, lol.
 

45/70

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Are the any specific changes you would make in my routine? Different type charger or like letting the cells discharge more so I don't need to not use the pila (which shows charged/green at around 4.0 V.) And use the Trustfire, which will show red for half another hour or more with the same cell.

Hi samm. What I'll say here is that my routine is different, not that yours is wrong, with the exception of the use of the TrustFire, your routine seems fine.

I have many Li-Ion cells, over 100, in many different sizes and varieties. With this many cells, most of them are in storage, most of the time. They are stored in the Fridge at about 35-40F in a ~40% state of charge (SOC).

When I know that I am actually going to use a "set" (usually one to three cells for the light, plus a backup set or two if deemed necessary), I charge them up. After they have been used for the "mission", I don't worry too much about returning them to storage if the cells were not discharged to an acceptable storage level, but go ahead and use them normally. This may take days, or weeks. When the cells are discharged to ~40% capacity, or lower, I prepare them for storage again. Cells that are below 40% capacity are charged up to 40%. Of course, this is easy to do with a hobby charger, as the "storage charge" function charges (or discharges, which seems a waste to me) cells to ~40%. The ~40% SOC isn't really all that critical, as long as the cells are about half charged or less, and not fully discharged (~3.6 volts OC (open circuit) voltage for a LiCo, or LiMn cell). In other words, you don't really need a hobby charger, anywhere between roughly 3.70-3.85 Volts OC is fine for storing.

So anyway, I don't really run into the problem of finding it necessary to top cells off, that are at 4.00 volts, or higher. I just use them until they reach a suitable voltage level, replace with a backup, and then mix the discharged cell back into the storage rotation.

I don't own a Pila IBC, so someone else may have a "trick" that will allow you to top up your cells. It seems I remember someone saying that for cells that are too fully charged to start charging in the Pila, if you run them briefly in a light for a few seconds at a high output level, and then quickly slap them into the charger, they will start to charge. It's worth a try anyway.

Any opinion on keeping them stored in the airtight Pelican for my trunk in all but extreme heat?
I personally don't like the idea of storing Li-Ion cells in the car. If nothing else, high temperatures will degrade the cells much more quickly. This is a better situation for the use of lithium primary cells, as they hold up well to extreme temperatures, both hot and cold. When the WX isn't so hot, I don't see any problem with Li-Ions, or if I'm on a "mission", I don't worry too much about it either. The less time Li-Ion cells are exposed to high temperatures though, the better.

I still have a ton to learn
If you haven't already, you should check out Battery University. There is a wealth of information there, not only about Li-Ion batteries and cells, but most other common rechargeable cells, as well.

And if it doesn''t make sense it's because its 4 AM, lol.
Makes sense to me.:)

Dave
 

45/70

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HUH? so the PILA's good or not? you guys totally lost me

Scary, the Pila is the best known "consumer type" charger that I am aware of for charging LiCo, or LiMn cells of 600mAh capacity or above. When I mentioned that it's not perfect, that's true, but it comes the closest of any of the "plug and play" chargers available. The only chargers that are possibly better, are the hobby type chargers. This is because they allow tailoring the charge to each specific cell being charged. They are also more complicated to use, require additional hardware, such as a charging cradle, often a separate power supply, and thus are not as convenient to use.

Dave
 
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