What technology will replace LED's as most efficient light source

ebow86

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
1,297
Location
Pennsylvania
Do we have any ideas on what hypothetically could replace the LED in the future? I know LED technology isn't that old, and it is getting better and better everyday but is there any technology on the horizon that could be superior to LED's in terms of efficiency and output? Any theory's on what lies down the road 25 or 50 years from now? Do you think that LED is here to stay for a long time?
 

2filthy3

Newly Enlightened
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
48
Location
Gypsy
Makers of plasma light bulbs are claiming 140+lm/W

(oops, you snooze you lose)
 

ebow86

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
1,297
Location
Pennsylvania
I don't think plamsa will be replacing LED's anytime soon, LED technology has come too far already. When I started the post, I was thinking someone would know about some radical theoretical technology that could come in the future. Plasma is already an existing technology.
 

Launch Mini

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
1,549
Location
Vancouver, BC
I don't think they are comparing apples to apples there. THe "high power LED" could be anything, they didnt even show the light, then the Plasma light is some big high voltage light. I am sure a few CPF's here have LED's that will perform equally to their light.
 

John_Galt

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
1,831
Location
SW, PA
This video clip, entitled Flashlight Experiment LEP vs LED, implies that plasma technology could replace LEDs.

So they had some aspheric equipped light, which, with the efficiency of aspherics, and all the loss of output in the head, is likely less than 100 lumens OTF, all of which is in a small, square beam, and tried to compare that to a searchlight sized 10-12" reflectored light that probably put out thousands of lumens? That's an apples to Zebras comparison.

Let's see them try that with a similar high output, multi-LED, multi-reflectored light powered by the same powersource, in a similar format...
 

Lynx_Arc

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
11,212
Location
Tulsa,OK
White leds go up to 150 and low pressure sodium lamps can go up to 200. So what's so cool about plasma.

Nap.

You can get 168 lumens/watt LEDs now I believe. Plasma bulbs are essentially still in the labs as far as I can tell nobody sells them and at 140 lumens/watt they are blown away by Cree's 231 lumens/watt LED that is also still in the lab.
I see LEDs taking over more and more of the lighting chores and in the years to come all but the high output fixtures will be LEDs as LEDs price per lumen is still way too high to justify investment for the efficiency boost.
 

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
7,506
Location
Flushing, NY
When you look at the current trends in LED development, it's likely we'll be at 80% to 90% conversion efficiency by the end of the decade. Besides that, LEDs can last hundreds of thousands of hours. When you're this close to theoretical maximums, I'm not really seeing how any other technology can replace LEDs. Even cost is rapidly coming down. I personally think LEDs and OLEDs will be the pinnacle of artificial lighting probably forever. There just isn't a whole lot of room for any new technology to improve upon.
 

SemiMan

Banned
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Messages
3,899
http://luxim.com/ is commercially available plasma lighting.

Will plasma beat LED ... I think unlikely only because the process is simple and while simple is good, it has limitations. LED has so many ways that will be found over time to tweak the output that we are going to get very close to theoretical maximums.

Semiman
 

Colorblinded

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
331
Location
Rochester, NY
You can get 168 lumens/watt LEDs now I believe. Plasma bulbs are essentially still in the labs as far as I can tell nobody sells them and at 140 lumens/watt they are blown away by Cree's 231 lumens/watt LED that is also still in the lab.
I see LEDs taking over more and more of the lighting chores and in the years to come all but the high output fixtures will be LEDs as LEDs price per lumen is still way too high to justify investment for the efficiency boost.
If Luxim's claims are to be believed, then yes Cree may have a higher lumen/watt offering but Luxim beats them by a good margin in lumens/watt at the CCT and CRI their LEPs run at.
 

Lynx_Arc

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
11,212
Location
Tulsa,OK
If Luxim's claims are to be believed, then yes Cree may have a higher lumen/watt offering but Luxim beats them by a good margin in lumens/watt at the CCT and CRI their LEPs run at.

If you can show me a time to market of their products I will consider them a valid competitor. We know Cree can take stuff from their lab and get it on the market within a few years but I really know very little about Luxims products. I seem to remember an RF bulb design a long time ago back when CFLs were $15 each that made promises then...
 

Colorblinded

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
331
Location
Rochester, NY
If you can show me a time to market of their products I will consider them a valid competitor. We know Cree can take stuff from their lab and get it on the market within a few years but I really know very little about Luxims products. I seem to remember an RF bulb design a long time ago back when CFLs were $15 each that made promises then...
As I said, if their site is to be believed then they may already have commercially available products with the qualities I mentioned.
 

Lynx_Arc

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
11,212
Location
Tulsa,OK
As I said, if their site is to be believed then they may already have commercially available products with the qualities I mentioned.

They may only be able to compete in a niche market with their product on the commercial level. If I read correctly they are using RF to excite a gas to make light which is nothing new as it has been around since fluorecent tubes and radio transmitters have been around.
 

SemiMan

Banned
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Messages
3,899
Luxim has real products and they are shipping in volumes ... 10's of thousands to date. That said, I do not believe they have anything actually shipping at 100 lumen/watt or greater. All the specs I can find are 80ish at best with AC taken into account. They are real and they are competition but I believe at least for now, they will compete for the big stuff -- MH replacements, etc. -- think 400/1000 watt stuff.
 

Lynx_Arc

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
11,212
Location
Tulsa,OK
Luxim has real products and they are shipping in volumes ... 10's of thousands to date. That said, I do not believe they have anything actually shipping at 100 lumen/watt or greater. All the specs I can find are 80ish at best with AC taken into account. They are real and they are competition but I believe at least for now, they will compete for the big stuff -- MH replacements, etc. -- think 400/1000 watt stuff.

I don't see LEDs replacing high output lights in the near future, perhaps later when they are able to get the cost per lumen down and the output way up per emitter we will see LEDs starting to compete with metal halide lamps in output. In other words Luxim is marketing in the range that LEDs haven't yet penetrated at efficiencies that basically make it unable to penetrate into the LED market. I see LEDs efficiency and output slowly pushing into the higher output market and perhaps one day replacing metal halide in specifically designed fixtures for them.
 

oldwesty4ever

Newly Enlightened
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
110
Do you think incandescent, fluorescent and HID lamps are just a temporary transitional technology to move away from candles, oil and gas lights until LEDs become the true, ultimate successor to candles and the other lighting technologies?
 
Top