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Thread: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* old4570's Avatar
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    Default Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery



    Sent to me for testing by Callie's Kustoms

    Battery has protection circuit
    Length is 68.9mm
    Diameter is 18.5mm @ widest point .

    Now these Batteries are built on the Panasonic 3100 cell , which is the latest release from Panasonic and they are 4.2v , and can be discharged down to 2.5v . A lot of flashlights will not be able to take advantage of this lower voltage capability as they have built in discharge protection @ 3v . But for a few lucky people , who may have buck boost low voltage drop ins , like the Solarforce 0.8v - 4.2v , will have the ability to suck these batteries dry .

    Discharging the battery in my Imax B6 @ 0.5A , I got some 2700mAh from 4.2v to 3v , and some



    2919mAh when discharged all the way down to 2.5v @ 0.5A . I did use the Nimh setting as it allows a much larger voltage variation for discharge , for the , to 2.5v discharge .

    For comparison :
    Hi-max 2600 = 2379mAh @ 0.5A to 3v
    Xtar 2600 = 2448mAh @ 0.5A to 3v
    Samsung 28A = 2488mAh @ 0.5A to 3v
    Sanyo 2600 = 2433mAh @ 0.5A to 3v





    The last graph is the run time test in my MTE SSC P7 , and please take note that after 120minutes I have gone in 10 minute steps rather than 5 minute steps .

    The other batteries begin to fall of around the 60 minute mark and seriously lose power , while the Callie's Kustoms 18650 continues to deliver power . Now the CK 18650 still has good reserves of power even with the voltage dropping of and running Direct Drive [ Which the MTE is ] , means that Voltage plays a large roll in output . For those folks running Buck boost or regulated lights [ Light maintains a steady output as long as possible ] will see much better gains from running a high capacity battery than those folks running Direct Drive .

    Who would benefit from a CK 18650 , well just about anyone , but I can see a real purpose for this battery with anyone requiring light for as long as possible , Police , Search and Rescue , Med Techs , etc . When lives are on the line those 30 or more extra minutes of run time , could be the difference in some ones life . Who said ? what is your life worth ?

    If we average out the run time for the other batteries at 80 minutes , the Callie's Kustoms 18650 [ in this light ] takes you to 140 minutes , that's a gain of some 60 minutes over 80 minutes , and in my book , that's one hell of a gain . And if you look at the discharge test [ Current with various lights ] , you can see the CK 18650 compares well to the other batteries I have tested recently .

    Thank you Calie's Kustoms for allowing me to test your battery ,

    old4570
    Last edited by old4570; 07-02-2011 at 07:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm pretty keen on this panasonic 3100mah cell. Thanks for the review!

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* LEDAdd1ct's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Thanks for the review! Need to sell a few things first, but I intend to buy a pair.
    "...and the diode multiplied and grew in brightness. And God saw that it was good."

  4. #4

    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Wow, just checked out the website for these cells and the prices are competitive with AWs. Does anyone know offhand what an AW 2900 really has in it? I'm waiting on one of download's Pocket Rockets and I'll be feeding it the best I can lay hands on (protected). These Kustoms look like a real winner.


    *edit*

    Just found this......
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...for-many-cells

    'bout the same really

    /end hijack
    Last edited by brembo; 07-02-2011 at 07:46 PM.
    I seem to have misplaced my occipital lobe, and as such cannot search for it. Do you see my dilemma?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    I believe I'm going to have to check some of these out! Thanks for the review.

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* VegasF6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    AWs 2900 has the Panasonic NCR18650 2900 mAH cell and the CK is using the newer NCR18650A 3100.

    Old 4570 what's the max discharge current you can test at with that imax b6?

  7. #7
    Retired Administrator Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasF6 View Post
    Old 4570 what's the max discharge current you can test at with that imax b6?
    Specifications:
    * Operating voltage range: DC11.0-18.0 Volt / AC to DC adaptor(DC11.0-18.0V/5A)
    * Circuit power: Max.charge power 50W / Max.discharge power 5W Charge Current Range: .1~5.0A
    * Discharge current range: 0.1-1.0A
    * Current drain for balancing Li-po: 300mAH/cell
    * LiIon/LiPo/LiFe cells : 1-6
    * NiCd/NiMH cells : 1-15
    * Pb battery voltage: 2~20v
    * Net Weight: 277g
    * Unit Package Gross Weight: 580g
    * Dimensions: 133x87x33mm

    Norm

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* VegasF6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    I will try and post some higher current discharge graphs tomorrow, if this stupid computer doesn't blow up again.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* old4570's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    1A max discharge ... Imax B6

    If you want 5A discharge , I checked Ebay , and the price entry point is about $75 ... [ Something like the Imax B8 ]
    Last edited by old4570; 07-03-2011 at 05:19 PM.

  10. #10
    Flashaholic* VegasF6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    I am testing now but no data to post for awhile still. Rolling power outages here too. Hope I don't lose power in the middle of testing. Starting at 3.1A then will try a 5 amp discharge. I would like to see data for 6.2A discharge but I don't have the capability. Or even ~9amp. What would be the likely effect of such a high discharge rate. Potential flames?

    *edit* jumping the gun a little here but one result, at 3.1A voltage quickly sags to ~3.5
    Last edited by VegasF6; 07-03-2011 at 09:55 PM.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* VegasF6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Here is the first graph, a 3.1A discharge of one cell down to 2.5V.



    Like I said above, voltage immediately sagged to 3.49.
    Also note that a discharge to 2.8V would have yielded 2,374 mAH. Normally I would stop my discharge tests there, or sometimes even higher. But, I wanted to give these new chemistry cells a fair chance. So, in this case, the test terminated at 55 minutes and 56 seconds at 2.503V for a total of 2896 mAH. Not too bad at all, would be great for an XM-L.

    The cell did warm up some and what really surprised me was the stack or rare earth magnets I had at the negative connection really got warm. I have a single magnet soldered to 12 AWG wires less than 12 inches long for testing to minimize resistance, but the magnet wasn't strong enough to get a good grip at the circuit board so I added a stack of thinner magnets. They were very warm. Have to come up with a better connection method.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* VegasF6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Here are results of a "5 amp" test. The quotes are because the charger didn't really sink the full 5 amps until 25 minutes in or so. So it's more like 4 -5 amp test, but I guess that's the best my charger can do. I improved the magnetic connection but there was still a significant amount of heat at the negative connection. I don't know if this is a problem or not but I am starting to be quite concerned by it, something in the protection circuit heating up or the traces in the circuit board simply can't handle the power.



    The cell achieved 2992 mAH over a 38 minute period. Which seems awfully good. This test is only as accurate as my iCharger, I have seen others say that it's not nearly as accurate as say the West Mountain CBA.

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* VegasF6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    I have done a total of 1 cycle each on these cells as documented here. Besides warming up while discharging, I have noticed they both settle down to ~4.11V soon after charging. I am concerned these are signs of high internal resistance with these cells. I am not so certain how I feel about them at this point.

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* old4570's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Hmmm ,

    Oh man I had a carefully worded response and the power went out ..

    What charge rate ? End voltage ? Sag ?

    I just wonder if the high discharge rate to 2.5v had something to do with it , as Li-ion batteries are susceptible to damage at high current bellow 3.5v .

    Taking a brand new cell , and pushing it hard ?

    So far mine is acting very normally , I will use it as much as possible to see how it goes ..

    Currently in my L2T XM-L T6

  15. #15
    Flashaholic* VegasF6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Yah, I hear ya there, but cell #1 had 1 discharge at 1C. I wouldn't consider 1C pushing it hard. Most cells I wouldn't discharge to 2.5V but then the NCR18650A isn't most cells. Panasonics discharge graphs show to 2.5V and I have read time that there proprietary coke lithium blah blah is designed to run down to that voltage (at least under load, I wouldn't want resting voltage that low). Supposedly max discharge is 6.2A to 2.5V, standard charge current is 1650 mA. Check out this data sheet for the older 2900 cells, I never noticed seems like they have a pretty short life cycle dropping off immediately and the chart ends at 300 cycles at a relatively gentle 1C rate. Is that typical of other 18650 cells?

    Charge rate was 1.2A, end voltage 4.2 pretty much spot on. As soon as charge stopped, before I unhooked the iCharger it dropped to ~4.17 - 4.18. After about 2 hours I checked cell #1 again at 4.11V.

    What sort of discharge rates does your L2 XML pull? No sign of warmth? Have you done an extended discharge yet in a high current flashlight?

    *edit*
    just noticed I never included link to data sheet. The graph entitled typical life characteristics at the end is what I refer to.
    http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-...CI4000CE17.pdf
    Last edited by VegasF6; 10-28-2011 at 06:12 AM.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    I do recall that my 2900 Panasonic cells started to give up (and eventually vented brown goo) after about 10-20 cycles through my 2.8A kerberos triple (were charged on a WF-188 @ 650mA)

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* old4570's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    I discharged the cell twice to 2.5v @ 0.5A - I would not want to go higher to 2.5v , to 3v I would consider higher AMPs

    I did a runtime test , last graph , SSC P7 Direct Drive on High , this is to give folks an idea of how the battery behaves in a light to 3v .
    2nd last graph shows discharge current achieved in different lights ..

    I would suggest a lower charge current , especially towards the end , those cheap chinese chargers sometimes have there advantages .

    A high charge current much like a high discharge current can put a load on the battery giving a different state to when at rest .. So it can be as simple as the cell normalizing to a rested state [ And yes , the higher the charge rate the more resistance will be met from the battery - this being variable some what to individual cells ] , you will note the Voltage drop when discharging a cell , the higher the discharge current , the greater the voltage drop .

    Can we say the same for charge rates ? the higher the current the higher the voltage state under load ? once the load is removed , the battery normalizes its resting voltage .

  18. #18
    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Great thread !


    Thank you for the Review and Information.




    _

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* VegasF6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Quote Originally Posted by old4570 View Post
    .
    Can we say the same for charge rates ? the higher the current the higher the voltage state under load ? once the load is removed , the battery normalizes its resting voltage .
    Perhaps, but the difference is the discharge rate remains the same more or less until cut off, but the charge rate only remains the same through the initial CC stage, when the charger enters the CV topping stage, the slow part, charge current steadily decreases until shutoff at ~50mA. Spec sheet notes 1.65A initial charge rate for slow charge or 3.1A for fast charge. But then again, the white papers I linked to above shows testing at .3C charge rate of only 825 mA. I will try that in the morning after a gentle discharge.

    Thanks for the advice!

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* old4570's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    I only used my Imax B6 once to charge a 18650 @ 1A , and noted something similar .

    Charger showed that it stopped charging at 4.2v , but once out it was about 4.19v , and after one hour it was 4.15v ...

    The cheap chinese chargers seem to taper of the charge current a lot more towards the end , and possibly as low as 40mA or there a bouts as it terminates or gives the green light to show charging is complete .

    Most of mine might do 650mA to start and by the time you get to 4v the charge current has seriously dropped of to maybe 200mA , and so forth continuing to drop charge current as the cell approaches 4.2v

    Im not sure how long it takes a battery to normalize ? But with the cheap chinese jobs its one hour .. And thats starting @ around 650mA charge rate and slowly tapering off .

    So whether charge rate - initial or end affects it by how much ?
    Certainly something to explore if one had the time and a programmable charger .

    I suspect the reason the cheap chargers [ for me ] do a better job is [ maybe ] as the charge tappers of , the battery begins to normalize - while the charger is still charging at an ever lower current .

    So as the battery voltage lowers [ normalizes ] the charger is still charging at a low current bringing the charge up to 4.2v ..

    What the hobby charger might do is maintain a charge rated , and back of the charge current at a certain point and bring the battery to 4.2v before it has had a chance to normalize , and therefor the drop in voltage after charging . ?

    Well thats what I suspect ... Ive been known to be wrong often enough ! And I entertain the idea I may be so now - but at this time I dont know any better !

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* VegasF6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Ever have one of those things were every single thing you touch breaks? Well I did. I was scared to touch my iCharger today after everything else. Computer, car, water line busted, 3 trips to home depot, broke 4 tapcons.... I don't even wanna go into it anymore. Anyhow, I did brave it and touch the charger and did a partial discharge just down to 3.9V and a subsequent re-charge at .5A I don't know if that was actually enough to use both the CC and CV stages, but from a cursory glance at my graph it must have been. Both cells charged to 4.2, rested for 3 or 4 hours now and are at 4.16 and 4.157. Close enough I guess!

  22. #22

    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Quote Originally Posted by old4570 View Post

    What the hobby charger might do is maintain a charge rated , and back of the charge current at a certain point and bring the battery to 4.2v before it has had a chance to normalize , and therefor the drop in voltage after charging . ?
    I have noticed the same behavior when charging at high current levels. I think you maybe right. Once charging at the higher current is done. If i let the cell rest for a little while then charge again at .3 amps it seems to hold resting voltage better. It does put a few more mah's in the cell.

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* 45/70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Just a quick comment from an even older 45/70, as it's 3 AM here in "Oh Hi ya!". When using a charger that utilizes a proper CC/CV charging algorithm, the faster the initial charge rate (the CC part) the lower the capacity of the charged cell will be. Slower rates of charge will always yield a more fully charged cell. The odd thing is that a 0.5C charge only takes about 25% longer than a 1C charge. This is because the CV stage of the 0.5C charge is proportionately, much shorter.

    Gotsta go.

    Dave

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* RI Chevy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Good thread here. Has anyone tried charging the Callie's Kustom 3100 with the digital USB charger from cottonpicker? Just curious.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Quote Originally Posted by RI Chevy View Post
    Good thread here. Has anyone tried charging the Callie's Kustom 3100 with the digital USB charger from cottonpicker? Just curious.
    I see no reason that the CP charger would not be fine. I have charged cells with capacities ranging from 750mA to 2900mA with no issues with my CP, don't think a 3100 is going to be an issue.
    I seem to have misplaced my occipital lobe, and as such cannot search for it. Do you see my dilemma?

  26. #26
    Flashaholic
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Took about 5.5hrs to charge a new 3100 with my CP charger at the 620mA rate.

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* RI Chevy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    Thank you for the responses. Just wanted to make sure.

  28. #28
    Flashaholic Hacken's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    finally got the two callie kustoms 3100mAh today. damn! that battery is quite big compare to my AW 2900 and the other ones. I had to remove the labels on the battery just to fit it in my TK11 yet it was still a pretty tight fit and a bit longer then the others.. I'm gonna keep these batteries for the TK35.
    LOVE ME A NEW LIGHT

  29. #29
    Flashaholic Hacken's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    i forgot to add.. it's too bad these batteries doesnt work in my eagletac t20c2... the top isn't all that flat..
    LOVE ME A NEW LIGHT

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* RI Chevy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Callie's Kustoms 18650 battery

    I got my 4 Callies Kustom 3100maH batteries in. I must say that I am impressed with the overall quality and the look of the battery. They all came off of my charger at 4.19v consistent. I feel they are a quality battery for the price. They fit in all of my lights, and work very well.

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