Protected or unprotected

Lightfoot98 · Jul 10, 2011

Just pulled the trigger in a LumintopTD15, and after considerable searching,
could not find anything on the regulation circuit as to whether it will cut off at low
voltage like a protection circuit.

Only thing they say is "Use cree XP-G R5 regulated to maximize output and runtime".

Should I just go ahead and use protected cells or what???

I have a bucketfull of unprotected's (18650's) but only 4 protected cells.

Yes! Yes I'm a NOOB when it comes to these Flashlights.

ebow86 · Jul 10, 2011

I can't think of any good reason to use unprotected cells when protected cells are so widely available and affordable.

old4570 · Jul 11, 2011

Hmmm , Interesting .

Protected VS unprotected ...

Why would you use a unprotected cell ..

1/ Because you have a pile of them ?
2/ Higher discharge rates possibly
3/ Flashlight has over discharge protection
4/ Easier to source quality cells
5/ Cheaper quality cells
6/ No protection circuit issues [ electronics are never 100% fault proof ]
7/ Shorter cell length
8/ less Diameter
9/ Use salvaged laptop batteries
10/

ebow86 · Jul 11, 2011

old4570 said:
Hmmm , Interesting .

Protected VS unprotected ...

Why would you use a unprotected cell ..

1/ Because you have a pile of them ?
2/ Higher discharge rates possibly
3/ Flashlight has over discharge protection
4/ Easier to source quality cells
5/ Cheaper quality cells
6/ No protection circuit issues [ electronics are never 100% fault proof ]
7/ Shorter cell length
8/ less Diameter
9/ Use salvaged laptop batteries
10/

Still learning alot about batteries and chargers etc. From what I've gathered so far most of the advice I've seen was to avoid unprotected cells and only use quality protected cells. Your post almost makes it seem like the unprotected cells are the better choice in some cases. I never thought an unprotected cell would have that many advantages over a protected one. Guess I've got alot to learn.

HKJ · Jul 11, 2011

old4570 said:
Protected VS unprotected ...

Why would you use a unprotected cell ..

1/ Because you have a pile of them ?
2/ Higher discharge rates possibly
3/ Flashlight has over discharge protection
4/ Easier to source quality cells
5/ Cheaper quality cells
6/ No protection circuit issues [ electronics are never 100% fault proof ]
7/ Shorter cell length
8/ less Diameter
9/ Use salvaged laptop batteries
10/

2/ There is a reason for limiting current, cells can not deliver any amount of current in a safe way.
3/ Very few flashligts has overdischarge protection.
4/ RediLast and AW is not difficult to get.
6/ Nothing is 100%, the protection in a light can also fail (if it has any).

siana · Jul 11, 2011

For the protected one, sometimes the protected circuit kicked off and left you stand alone in the dark ( unless you have a spared one either a battery or flashlight).

old4570 · Jul 12, 2011

Most important ...

Use what your comfortable using ...

Some folks feel safer using protected cells - and that's fine .

If your prepared to use more care , I dont see the problem using unprotected cells .

45/70 · Jul 12, 2011

old4570 brings up some valid points in his list. There are however two situations where I think protected cells should be used. One always, and the second, I think it's highly recommended.

Protected cells should always be used for any series application. That is, in any light that uses more than one cell in series. Unlike battery packs for R/C use (or laptop computers, tools, cell phones, or whatever), we in the flashlight/torch hobby don't have the convenience of protection circuits that are built in to the battery pack, like the R/C and other packs do. Therefore, we have to make up for this by using cells that have had individual protection circuits added to them, when we use cells in series applications.

In the second situation, it is highly recommended that those new to Li-Ion cells use protected cells. Until one is familiar with all the quirks associated with the use of "loose" Li-Ion cells, protected cells add a considerable safety margin, while one is "learning the ropes" of Li-Ion cell use. For example, if you try out a new light setup and you continually end up tripping the protection circuit of the cell(s), this gives a pretty good indication that you probably shouldn't be using this setup. The use of unprotected cells in this same setup, would yield no warning.

Once a person has become more familiar with using protected Li-Ion cells, they may want to expand their use to unprotected cells also. Then however, it is important to remember if you do, that one of the "safety nets" has been removed. When using unprotected cells, in many situations, you are the protection circuit.

Dave

dwaindibly · Feb 18, 2014

protected or unprotected 18650's

hi I'm looking for some new batteries for my torch i have seen some panasonics at a reasonable price 3400mah 18650's the unprotected ones are a bit cheaper i have a torch that takes just one 18650 what are the pros and cons of each battery
cheers

ChrisGarrett · Feb 18, 2014

Re: protected or unprotected 18650's

dwaindibly said:
hi I'm looking for some new batteries for my torch i have seen some panasonics at a reasonable price 3400mah 18650's the unprotected ones are a bit cheaper i have a torch that takes just one 18650 what are the pros and cons of each battery
cheers

I'm pretty much down to running naked cells 90% of the time, but I'm constantly testing for runtimes and measuring my single cells and then charging them back up. I don't run multi cells, so I'm good there.

Last night, I did a test using my Convoy S2 with 2.8A driver board at 40% (medium) with a naked Panasonic 3100mAh that had a resting voltage of 4.16v.

I was able to run the light for 40 minutes ON and 10 minutes OFF for 2.5 hours and at each step, I was able to guestimate where that cell's voltage would settle at and I was pretty close all four times, lol.

You need to have a certain 'awareness' if you're going to play with naked cells.

Chris

Jay T · Feb 18, 2014

Re: protected or unprotected 18650's

Do You have a meter to read the cell's voltage?

Do you plan on using the meter to check the cells voltage?

If not stick with protected.

RoGuE_StreaK · Feb 18, 2014

Re: protected or unprotected 18650's

Protected tends to be the better choice if they fit; protected cells are about 4mm longer, and some torches don't allow for this. Do some research on your torch model to see if anyone has issues fitting protected cells.

Protected adds another layer of, well, protection. There's a circuit board built in which should(!) reduce the risk of over -charge and discharge; the latter being important if the torch doesn't have a method of turning off if the voltage gets too low. If both your charger and torch are smart enough then protection isn't required, but usually one or the other has a few dumb tendancies.

Another negative of protected cells is that they usually have an imposed limit on current draw, and some may be lower than what your torch wants to draw on High/Turbo; usually not an issue unless you have either a torch that gulps down masses of current, or the battery has a very low-rated protection circuit. Probably shouldn't be an issue with anything containing a Panasonic.

StorminMatt · Feb 19, 2014

Re: protected or unprotected 18650's

Another reason to go unprotected: 26650s. If you want to run ICR 26650s, King Kongs are certainly one of the best there is in terms of capacity. They are also both inexpensive and well made. But they aren't protected. Furthermore, if you don't need the extra capacity King Kongs offer, protected ICR 26650s just don't make much sense when you can get safer IMR cells of the same capacity and higher current capability (and without the fitment issues of protected cells).

ven · Feb 19, 2014

Re: protected or unprotected 18650's

Cant really add to the pros on here ,but which ever you use be it protected or unprotected treat both with the deserved respect.Dont leave alone,dont use cheap cells or crap chargers

I use both for different applications,protected in my multi cell lights,some lights will only take unprotected due to size.
I am also an ecig guy,so use sanyo/samsung/panasonic unprotected in the VV devices i have.
Latest x3vn light uses 26650,and as said unprotected offer benefits,especially the kinoko offering 9.6A and 3000+lm,where as some protected cells would limit output

So i would happily use unprotected in any single cell light,would also in multi but just prefer protected in the higher out put lights using 3 or 4 cells..........just my preference thats all,no specific reason........

degarb · Feb 19, 2014

45/70 said:
old4570 brings up some valid points in his list. There are however two situations where I think protected cells should be used. One always, and the second, I think it's highly recommended.

Protected cells should always be used for any series application. That is, in any light that uses more than one cell in series. Unlike battery packs for R/C use (or laptop computers, tools, cell phones, or whatever), we in the flashlight/torch hobby don't have the convenience of protection circuits that are built in to the battery pack, like the R/C and other packs do. Therefore, we have to make up for this by using cells that have had individual protection circuits added to them, when we use cells in series applications.

In the second situation, it is highly recommended that those new to Li-Ion cells use protected cells. Until one is familiar with all the quirks associated with the use of "loose" Li-Ion cells, protected cells add a considerable safety margin, while one is "learning the ropes" of Li-Ion cell use. For example, if you try out a new light setup and you continually end up tripping the protection circuit of the cell(s), this gives a pretty good indication that you probably shouldn't be using this setup. The use of unprotected cells in this same setup, would yield no warning.

Once a person has become more familiar with using protected Li-Ion cells, they may want to expand their use to unprotected cells also. Then however, it is important to remember if you do, that one of the "safety nets" has been removed. When using unprotected cells, in many situations, you are the protection circuit.

Dave

Excellent post. Well laid out.

Every reason to use unprotected cells that Old4570 lists, should have "(And, this is because it is more convenient!)" added.

The only reason to use unprotected, cells that would not have that clause, that I could list, is: some lights and holders are so poorly designed that when you insert the cell you could damage the protection circuit and cause a short. This is due to poor light design. A good holder design would have springs on both + and -, and enough width for a protection cell. I think only my Fenix light has this. So, be very careful on first insertion of your protected cell, until you know how it will fit in that light.

Protected or unprotected

Lightfoot98

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ebow86

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old4570

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ebow86

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HKJ

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siana

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old4570

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45/70

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dwaindibly

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ChrisGarrett

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Jay T

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RoGuE_StreaK

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StorminMatt

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ven

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degarb

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