I have just emailed Rob

[fugleebeast]

Blatanly lying to people is questionable and unsubstantiated .

No it's not. He blatantly lied to me over a dozen times while he strung me along for nearly a year. I find it insulting when people like you choose to be so oblivious to that.

He's about 3k in the hole, eh? Here's a great idea... get a second job. An honorable person would find a way to fix his issues instead of whining about them and running away. He could always go flip burgers if he actually gave a rat's ass about the people he's gave his promises to.

This all started 2.5 years ago and he's been trying to fix it the exact same way. Guess what... it ain't working.

[Incidentalist]

Blatanly lying to people is questionable and unsubstantiated

He blatantly lied to me multiple times. That's all the proof I need, but if you need further proof of lies, here's a good place to look:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...-to-Orb-(Lummi)

So, please, take a peak at that thread and then tell me again that my accusation that Rob blatantly lies to people is questionable and unsubstantiated.

[egrep]

Rob has indicated to me that my order [placed long ago] has shipped. This is much as I expected it to occur as he makes up lost ground. I'll update when the light has arrived.

[RWC]

I've got about 10 e-mails fully of broken promises (LIES) about my purchase back on November 2010! I have asked several times for a refund because I am not even sure I'd want to include his light in my collection. It has driven me insane the way he keeps promising me how he plans on getting me my wee but he continues to sell to others and delivers!! Serously thinking of asking a friend of mine in the UK to take this to court for me (live in the US). Really didn't want to go that route but I know he wouldn't mind helping me this way. Just wish I had looked at ALL THE REVIEWS that were online before I trusted this man!!! Tired of the lies!!

[karlheinz3]

I really don't understand why anyone had problems with the exception of waiting for tritium locators. Nobody trashes Scott (Milky Spit) and it is going on nine months since I sent my lights off to him for modification services. I have been waiting for Cool Fall to fix my Spy 005 switch for months and Modoo (Oveready) to replace a defective module. Custom lights are just what the name implies and you can't get them at Wal Mart. We have to rely on the expertise of some of the finest craftsman and innovators in the industry to exercise their creative genius and that takes time and money. During these trying economic times facing our country and the whole world in general, we must learn to be patient and understanding. I personally suffered economic demise ending in bankruptcy and the loss of my construction business about seven years ago following my father's death. I employed twenty people and lost everything so I understand totally how a small custom light builder can get side tracked and have to devote his efforts to doing whatever type of electrical work possible to put food on his table and provide for his family. No intentional deception or intent to "rob" customers was the objective of Mr. Cheetham. Hard times can hit anyone at any time for a multitude of circumstances. I now own a very successful property preservation and appraisal business and have many employees and subcontractors working for me again. I think Rob is trying to regroup and show good intent and provide the prompt service that placed him in the custom builder section of this forum to begin with. My latest order was scheduled to be shipped on August 3, 2011 and I received my totally awesome titanium Wee XML today August 11, 2011. I couldn't be more satisfied with the product or the service. To those who have not received their products, communication and patience will prevail. Kindness is the key...not condemnation. There is always an explanation and a solution to every problem so don't give up or pass judgement and be patient and exercise communication in a tactful manner. God Bless and GOOD LUCK! Karl H. Riedel III Proud OHIO member of Candle Power Forums

[nbp]

Have you even read the threads delineating Lummi's problems over the past two years Karl?

[Incidentalist]

Seriously, Rob's proponents just look right past the real underLYING issues. I've yet to see a single complaint that was about a long wait, and ONLY about the long wait.

[DM51]

karlheinz3, your follow-up post has been removed. Given the circumstances, it is absurd that you saw fit to post such drivel. More to the point, it is highly provocative. If you post any more of that type of nonsense, you will face a suspension for trolling.

[Incidentalist]

At this point, people are either being willfully ignorant or blatant shills if they refuse to see the true problems that people are upset about.

[shado]

karlheinz3, your follow-up post has been removed. Given the circumstances, it is absurd that you saw fit to post such drivel. More to the point, it is highly provocative. If you post any more of that type of nonsense, you will face a suspension for trolling.

I've read Karls post and believe he answered with his thoughts, as requested by the OP!

[karlheinz3]

I totally love Candle Power Forums and believe the truth is the truth and this forum is designed to share our experience for the benefit of the forum. I am a Notary public and a state licensed Realtor and I will never perpetrate fraud or jeopardize my integridy. For the benefit of everyone here I shared my personal experiences with Lummi and Rob Cheetham. I remember a few years back when a custom light I shipped to Octaf turned up lost in transit. I was crucified by many for waiting the period of time the US Postal Service told me to wait before rectifying the situation for which I did not provide express shipping due to an error on one of my employees part. A Jeer was started and a PayPal dispute. I was really pissed off because I hadn't done anything wrong (other than relying on one of my staff to do my mailing) but I still issued a refund even though the buyer lost his dispute with PayPal. I just don't think it is fair to not provide details on successful transactions and only shed light on negative experiences. I feel Rob will make things right because he always followed through with my deals and I can only pass judgement on my personal experience. DM51...you have no right to accuse me of anything but telling the truth and I have always been a strong promoter of international sales for the benefit of world wide sharing of our hobby. Please don't make a mockery out of my blatent honesty! Karl H. Riedel III. What the HELL is trolling anyway? I stated in an earlier post that I was going to attempt a purchase a light from Lummi despite the warnings and I would share my results upon completion of the transaction and that is exactly what I did! Trolling....HUH....is that the little guy that lives under the bridge and is kept in the dark?

[Light11]

+1

I read Karls post as well,his experience has been a positive one and he just wanted to share.

I've read Karls post and believe he answered with his thoughts, as requested by the OP!

[bf1]

At this point, people are either being willfully ignorant or blatant shills if they refuse to see the true problems that people are upset about.

I suspect if members question your opinions, they are blatant shills? I would certainly be less judgemental and recognize that not all agree with your opinions. You certainly have the right to express your views , yet others should be entitled to express their opinions and experiences with Rob.

[Incidentalist]

You suspect wrong. I have no problem if anybody wants to question my opinions, but this isn't about people questioning my opinions. This is about people who do not want to admit the facts. My statement that Rob is a liar is based on the FACT that he lied to me, as I have previously stated. Fugleebeast also stated that Rob lied to him multiple times as well. I even posted a link to a jeer about Rob where several people outline the lies that were perpetuated by Rob and if you read the thread you can see how he attempted to shift blame instead of owning up to what he had done. This is about so much more than just slow delivery of lights. While that is the underlying issue, it's the way Rob inappropriately handled himself and his business that has raised the ire of myself and others. It's the man, not the products that are at issue here. So, have you read the jeer thread? Do you still think that my (and others) accusations that Rob is a liar are unsubstantiated?

You're not a shill, and I never said that you were.

[shado]

and he replied,

I was asking about purchasing a new Lummi and was enquiring about his stock, he told me he has Wee SS and Ti are ready to ship with the new XM-L emitter he is building, although he has no locators in stock.

Now I know of all the bad things flying around on this forum, but I have succesfully purchased 2 lights from him (2 years ago) with no problems, he was very proffesional in every step.

I dont see why I shouldnt hand over payment for a new Wee Ti, he has done nothing wrong by me.

What are your thoughts?

The question was asked "What are your thoughts"

At this point, people are either being willfully ignorant or blatant shills if they refuse to see the true problems that people are upset about.

It seems members have had different experiences with Lummi. I don't think we need to debate thoughts that were posted in the spirit in which this thread was started! I have looked through the Jeer and found your post from 04-15-2010 09:43 AM in which you stated you received your lights after an 8 month wait. Have you had any other dealings with Lummi?

[Incidentalist]

No, I have not. I still have my lights and have no intention of parting with them. I would even like to acquire some new ones, but I refuse to do any further business with Rob until all reasonable back orders are filled.

Why do I involve myself in this matter if I'm not currently waiting? I'm still interested because there are still people with long outstanding orders waiting on the sidelines while Rob continues to sell new lights to others. It does not appear that much has changed. Throughout this whole ordeal I've always had the feeling that Rob was more concerned with himself than his customers. The fact that he still needs new orders to help fill old orders just solidifies this viewpoint for me.

To be fair, I was not involved in this thread until people had to jump in with the whole poor Rob routine. I don't like seeing somebody who has never been wronged by Rob telling everybody that they just haven't been patient enough, that they don't understand. I'm frustrated by the unwillingness of some to admit that people have justifiable anger at Rob that stems from far more than just a long wait.

[egrep]

I just wanted to say (again I think) that despite being one of those who have been wronged by Rob, I don't see the point in this infighting, bickering and yes, trolling. Rob's paid his bills or drank good whiskey with my money. No Light to show for it. What am I to do?

I'm not the type who needs to pick up a pitchfork and a 'fire on a stick' in a mob. This is flashlight collecting after all, not your retirement fund. If you can't risk several [hundred] dollars, don't. If after 30 days your light hasn't arrived, open a dispute with Paypal. Or, wait and hope?

Rob has not been forthcoming with CPF. He has not made right with the community or his wronged customers as a group. One by one he seems to be filling back orders but not at any predictable or accountable rate. Rob has made a decision to F**K off CPF. That's rather abundantly clear and those who post here on CPF about their glee and satisfaction with Rob are being rude and hostile to the CPF community. Some have gone so far as to troll. It is a fact.

It would be best for those people to heap praise on Rob where Rob currently purveys his goods. Teh Facebook, Lummi web site, whatever. CPF is obviously, completely and undeniably THE WRONG PLACE. Those who cannot comprehend this simple fact are either malicious or incredibly stupid (stupid == lack of ability to overcome ignorance) IMO, YMMV, Etc...

Myself, I choose to [try to] be polite to both Rob and to the CPF community. I believe Rob will (and may have already?) send my light to me. He responds rapidly to my mails and I try not to put him in a position to make promises he can't or won't keep.

I've written off the money sent. It's a hobby, a luxury hobby. Now I just would like my rare and delightful Lummi Light. I've no need to vilify or further disgrace Mr. Cheetham but rather I would enjoy his rehabilitation.

I've considered auctioning the light off, if I ever get it. Using the funds to recompense any similarly wronged customer that has been unable to buy milk or shoes for their kids as a result of this debacle. Or those forced from their homes as a direct result of the Nefarious Lummi Bandit.

But really folks... $3K USD is the total amount lost to this enormous ponzi scheme? Really? Sounds like the cost of a couple Spy 007's. Is that really worth all the hostility, enmity and angst bandied about here? Really?

[DM51]

I totally love Candle Power Forums and believe the truth is the truth and this forum is designed to share our experience for the benefit of the forum. I am a Notary public and a state licensed Realtor and I will never perpetrate fraud or jeopardize my integridy. For the benefit of everyone here I shared my personal experiences with Lummi and Rob Cheetham. I remember a few years back when a custom light I shipped to Octaf turned up lost in transit. I was crucified by many for waiting the period of time the US Postal Service told me to wait before rectifying the situation for which I did not provide express shipping due to an error on one of my employees part. A Jeer was started and a PayPal dispute. I was really pissed off because I hadn't done anything wrong (other than relying on one of my staff to do my mailing) but I still issued a refund even though the buyer lost his dispute with PayPal. I just don't think it is fair to not provide details on successful transactions and only shed light on negative experiences. I feel Rob will make things right because he always followed through with my deals and I can only pass judgement on my personal experience. DM51...you have no right to accuse me of anything but telling the truth and I have always been a strong promoter of international sales for the benefit of world wide sharing of our hobby. Please don't make a mockery out of my blatent honesty! Karl H. Riedel III. What the HELL is trolling anyway? I stated in an earlier post that I was going to attempt a purchase a light from Lummi despite the warnings and I would share my results upon completion of the transaction and that is exactly what I did! Trolling....HUH....is that the little guy that lives under the bridge and is kept in the dark?

We’ll let that post stand, but not for the reasons you posted it. No doubt you mean what you say, but there's no avoiding the fact that by any objective standards it is a monumentally pompous piece of work.

It is also silly and misguided. People were already well aware that Lummi was still active, and was occasionally shipping items to favored customers; so beyond the fact that you have been one of the lucky few, it contains nothing of value.

The principal purpose of this thread, and the others here, has been to exchange information about the progress (or lack of it) by Lummi in shipping the items members paid for many months before you ordered yours. If you had just stated that you had received your light and hoped everyone else would soon receive theirs too, I think that would probably have been accepted. But no: you had to crow about it, and in a finger-wagging paean of self-important and cheesy verbiage you not only harangued us all about your "integridy" [sic], but you also subjected us to a selection of trite and shallow off-topic irrelevances in your attempt to justify what has happened.

But leaving aside the pomposity and the silliness of your post, the thing that will most likely stick in people's throats is the extraordinary SELFISHNESS of your attitude. You received your light, so according to you, nothing else matters. The entire rest of the thread, and the various other threads here that discuss Lummi’s failures, can be dismissed as completely inconsequential. Lummi, in your view, has done no wrong, and whatever anyone else says can be ignored. That displays a level of selfishness that we rarely see on CPF.

Not content with that, you started a new thread to shove your own selfish view in the face of everyone else here, and you even stuck a "thumbs up" icon on it. That was just an arrogant, insulting and provocative thing to do.

It was also a very clear case of trolling. You claim not to know what a troll is; try Wikipedia or Google. You'll find numerous explanations. In your case, it amounts to posting provocative and disruptive material. If you had confined yourself to the facts, there would have been no problem; but you didn't. If you had heeded my warning, the matter would have ended there; but you didn't.

Your other thread has been closed as a worthless piece of trollish provocation. This thread is very different; given the sensitivity of the subject, there have been some extremely careful, helpful and interesting contributions here.

Your own posts here, unfortunately, fall absurdly short of the standards set by other members; that is partly because you have dismissed what everyone else has said, and partly because you have failed to observe and comply with the Rules. You now have some spare time on your hands, so I suggest you use it to read them - Rules 4 and 8 are the ones you should concentrate on.

You'll be joined in your absence from here by bf1, whose posts have been just as idiotically ill-judged as yours, if somewhat less verbose.

[egrep]

After waiting for the better part of this entire year I found a Wee NS in my mailbox today, 7-10 days after receiving 3 different emails that it had been dispatched. I did not hold my breath and wait for it, but today I am pleasantly surprised. The light meets or exceeds my previous expectations.

The tritium locators I paid for were not present, otherwise everything (USB Charger, spare battery) is there and fully functional. It's a wonderful little light though I'm greatly disappointed in the lacking tritium. Though that's likely something I can solve with the help of friends.
There's no point to But maybe there are more and less productive ways to resolve issues?

The delivery of this key component of my order (the light) does NOT excuse Rob Cheetham. It does not resolve other customers orders. It does not restore his good honor either but perhaps it's another small step in the right direction.

I thank him for sending my light and only hope I did not 'get ahead of' anyone else who has been waiting for their order. My surmise however is that Mr. Cheetham's fulfillment of previous orders is somewhat sensitive to the purchasers method of inquiry. That may not be just and fair, but I think it is so.

I wish Mr. Cheetham would realize that only by (at least attempting to) re-appearing on CPF and stating a clear and unequivocal apology followed immediately by a plan of action to fill customer orders can he truly regain his self respect and begin to hope for others here to forgive him. I can only hope that if he did so that folks would give him a chance.

In particular and without calling anyone out by name I should note that I am also truly disgusted by the behavior displayed by some of the most fortunate and prolific of collectors here on CPF. I used to aspire to be a collector like you, now I just want your lights. 'Gentlemen' your example is very poor. Check yourselves, please. Your reputations are also tarnished by this saga.

This posting is submitted respectfully to the CPF community and not intended in any way to flare tempers. Some things just seem like they need to be said.

[DM51]

I wish Mr. Cheetham would realize that only by (at least attempting to) re-appearing on CPF and stating a clear and unequivocal apology followed immediately by a plan of action to fill customer orders can he truly regain his self respect and begin to hope for others here to forgive him. I can only hope that if he did so that folks would give him a chance.

That is an excellent post, egrep.

The extract I have quoted is something I think most CPFers will agree would be the right way for Orb to set about rehabilitating himself and restoring his reputation here. It will be up to individual members to decide on that, but there would be a very marked change of atmosphere in this sub-forum and the negativity would begin to disappear.

There are features which CPF staff have implemented, such as the red banner at the top of the page and the "angry" stickies, which would begin to change as appropriate. That's not something that would happen immediately or overnight; it would depend on progress made. CPF staff would be delighted if in due course all these negative features could be removed.

If Orb is reading this, I hope he will seriously consider it as a proper way for him to proceed. It would be very helpful if someone could draw his attention to egrep's post, and this one.

[mattp]

The tritium locators I paid for were not present, otherwise everything (USB Charger, spare battery) is there and fully functional. It's a wonderful little light though I'm greatly disappointed in the lacking tritium. Though that's likely something I can solve with the help of friends.

I'm glad to hear your light finally turned up.
I suspect you're already aware, but just in case you're not, Merkava has 1.5 x 6 mm tritium vials in green that fit the Wee perfectly, over in the marketplace:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...-Tritium-Vials

I recently bought a second hand Ti Raw, and they are nice little lights, it's a shame to see the road the business has gone down, leaving so many out of pocket.
All the best,
Matt.

[egrep]

I wrote Rob to let him know about developments on this thread. He read it but from what I gather does not feel sufficiently moved to address CPF. I'm very sad because this was the very best chance he (and we) had to resolve this mess, yet he's not going for it.

Rob strikes me as a decent fellow in our exchanges(*), but his unwillingness to take this outstretched hand causes me to be very sad and to lament his weakness. It's not easy to eat crow, but sometimes you have to chew through what you've served up. Rob may make great lights, but this failure will hound him all his life regardless of how hard he tries to deny it.

Rob, you need to 'MAN UP' and deal with this. The door is open, will you enter?

mattp, yeah I'm going to order from Merkava or B@rt depending on who has the color I want handy and maybe some Norland which i'll need. Thanks!

(*) This does not excuse his very indecent treatment of trusting buyers from CPF!

[karlheinz3]

I wish to express my most humble apologies to members of CPF who were offended by my prior posts supporting Rob Cheetham and his efforts to reestablish Lummi as a reputable establishment. In no way was it my intention to provoke or antagonize members who hadn't received their purchases. I stated that despite the negative publicity shed on Lummi...I was going to attempt to purchase a new light and that I would share the outcome of my transaction publicly on the forum and that was all that I did. DM51, I am very sorry that you interpreted my actions as trolling and saw fit to ban me and BF1 for expressing our honest experiences with this manufacturer. I feel that many of the contributers to this thread are way off base and using this as a lynching session. Please reread the original post that started this thread and please explain how I was out of line with my comments when I spoke complete honesty and recited an actual experience verbatum. Once again ....please accept my apologies and I am glad to be back on the forum! Karl H. Riedel III.

[egrep]

KarlHRiedel III,

It clearly sounds like you're sorry you got banned and you're not the least bit apologetic for being obnoxious and rude to the CPF community by outrageous trolling. Since you most explicitly apologize for OUR misunderstanding and not YOUR actions I'm going to take a pass on acceptance. I and others do not need YOU apologizing for YOUR perception that the issue here is OUR misunderstanding.

You trolled, you troll on your return. You are in no way ignorant of how you were out of line. You do not fool me and likely you do not fool many others either. You sir are a troll and not a WHOLE lot more! Now that you're back and again pushing people's buttons, how long until you're banned again?

Moderators: I'm not good at mincing words, but I hate causing unrest or angst. Delete this post or ask me to do so and it will be done. I realize that *I* may be out of line here and if so I sincerely apologize for being adamant and posting for all to see. Though it may rankle some uncomfortable with controversy and conflict my intent is to not let Karl's balderdash of insincerity go unanswered.

[nbp]

DM51, I am very sorry that you interpreted my actions as trolling and saw fit to ban me and BF1 for expressing our honest experiences with this manufacturer.

KarlHRiedel III,

It clearly sounds like you're sorry you got banned and you're not the least bit apologetic for being obnoxious and rude to the CPF community by outrageous trolling. Since you most explicitly apologize for OUR misunderstanding and not YOUR actions I'm going to take a pass on acceptance. I and others do not need YOU apologizing for YOUR perception that the issue here is OUR misunderstanding.

I read that the same way egrep. I don't think you are out of line.

[DM51]

Feelings are running high here and that is to some extent understandable, but it will do no good to inflame matters further.

I'm going to close this thread temporarily. Perhaps after 12-24 hours things will have cooled down sufficiently for it to be re-opened.

[DM51]

Thread re-opened. Members posting here, or indeed anywhere in this sub-forum, should remain mindful of the sensibilities of others.

[bf1]

Dm51,
The statement of being mindful and respectful is right on!

[127.0.0.1]

I will post up my results.

I emailed Lummi today asking about lights, he emailed me back in 15 minutes.

I then placed an order, and the order was rejected by paypal because the Trit color on the orb wasn't available

I then placed an order for a Wee with trits and that went through.

Rob emailed me and thanked me for the order and said it'll be a few days and it'll ship
---
So, I am assuming his web site and pay system is linked more solidly to actual inventory and I
am going to trust this guy and I will report back what happens with this order.

[blackfly]

I'm waiting for an order from January of last year. It was something that Rob confirmed was in stock before I ordered it. I've emailed him every couple months to check on status. He always responds promptly but I still don't have the light. In one email he mentioned something about "funding backorders". So, he may very well be filling new orders. But I will be surprised if I get the light I ordered a year ago.