Anybody still like using Nicads?

Are there? I know it's 2011 and most people really don't use Nicads anymore, everybody is on the Li-ion and NIMH bandwagon, and that's fine. Personally, I don't really mess much with Li-ion but I do use NIMH's. But even though Nicads are "outdated" I still love the fact that I can abuse the hell out them and they will still come back strong, whereas other battery types wouldn't stand up to the abuse, and I love the fact that I can snap one of my surefire Nicads in the charger, go to sleep, and never give it a second thought, knowing how safe and reliable they really are. So even though the nicad has been suprassed by superior technology, does anyone out there still enjoy using nicads for the reasons stated above?

I still use NiCads. I don't think they're out dated at all. JUST DIFFERENT. Compared to NiMH they hold their charge longer, hold more of their charge in temperature extremes and get roughly twice the discharge cycles. They are still used widely in the space program.

I'll be using them in some worthy applications until they pry them out of my cold, dead fingers.

I use Eneloops ("hybrid" NiMH cells) for the majority of my AA and AAA needs. Of course their advantages are having relatively high capacity, lower self discharge rate, high cycle life, and higher drain rate per capacity than many other NiMH cells.

NiCds are still useful in some applications too though. They can take a fair amount off abuse from bad chargers, can be completely discharged and left empty (should be avoided when in series), and they have higher drain rates per capacity than NiMHs.

For these reasons, I think they can work better installed in devices such as electric shavers, cordless phones, and the like.

+1 They still have applications, maybe not so much consumer stuff other then power tools, but for high reliability, abuse resistant batteries they are certainly a top candidate.

I only have 3 or 4 left and you can't buy them here anymore. They are 10 years old (or more) and have a pair where the real capacity is higher than its label says. I use them in the lights I use the most (inside home), because they are easy to recharge in a pinch.

However, in my EDC I use eneloops for the higher capacity and LSD. Sometimes I use some alkies in not so bright or expensive lights just because I want to get rid of them.

BITD I bought 16 Sanyo 2400mAh matched NiCAD cells for a crazy RC truck project that I shelved (got to be really, really, really freaking expensive for something that would be relatively fragile compared to more modern RC trucks). I still have most of the batteries and, despite being forgotten for a number of years, they are still in great condition. I've thought about making a new B90 stick or two with them, but, I'm probably going to make a flashlight or two around them.

The reason I started this thread was everywhere you look on CPF it's, NIMH, Li-ion, ENELOOPS, AW's, TRUSTFIRE's, all day long. Which is to be expected on a flashlight forum in 2011. I'm no expert on batteries but I do use surefire rechargeable's alot and although NIMH and Li-ion do generally have higher performance, it's the rock solid reliability, simplicity, and tolerance to abuse that makes me enjoy using Nicads. I don't have to worry about protection circuits tripping, harming the batteries when using them in freezing temperatures, over-discharging them, keeping an eye on them during the charging process and constantly checking their voltage, etc. I use them without worry, abuse them and never give it a second thought, and recharge them worry free, it's as simple as that.

The one problem you have with trying to find NiCd AA'a is that cadmium is being phased out. Even if you could find them they're usually bottom of the barrel choice so construction quality becomes more an issue than chemistry. These often have spotty reliability and extremely low capacity.

I think Sanyo still makes the Cadnica's. I no longer have any "loose" NiCds. I have to say that in the 25+ years that I've used NiCd cells, they definitely outlast NiMh cells by at least 2:1, probably better than that. This includes beating the crap out of them too.

I hate to see them go. They are without a doubt the most capable battery cells ever made when it comes to severe use and abuse. You'd think with recycling and all, the risk to the environment could be minimized.

Dave

If anyone is interested, I have the following NiCDs which you can have for FREE - just pay shipping from CO.

24x Panasonic sub-C 1400mAH, purple wrapper
16x sub-C 1400mAH, red wrapper, don't remember manufacturer
12x Panasonic 2/3A 600mAH, black wrapper (same size as CR123)
12x Sanyo AA 1100mAH, flat top light green wrapper
12x Sanyo 4/5A 1700mAH, flat top (same size as 17500)

These have never been used since purchased several years ago. PM if interested.

I've actually been looking for some with decent capacity (AA) for the exact reasons you've stated, excepting their usage.
I want to use them in my son's toys... they can handle very low discharge without being damaged.
Is there much available in a button-top with better than 900ma?

they are still widely used in those solar AA/AAA chargers

Yes, but limitedly. They have the lazy memory problem, which means if you don't have a very smart charger that runs them down first (to 20%?) then they won't give you back the full distance. IE; if you use them for 10 minutes , then put them back on the 'average dumb" charger, you will only get 10 minutes use next time out. You can however "refresh" them with varying degrees of success by draining them down with a resistor to the proper level first before recharging (20%?).
FYI: the old police radios had a special circuit that would first discharge them to some lower lever (20%?) and then recharge them, takes longer but you get the full distance on next use. I did my whole ceiling in 1800 sq foot house using nicad cordless drills. but we had to religiously tie the trigger on, to run them till they stopped, then immediately to the charger , if we hadn't already drained them before end of workday.
ALso liquid ni-cads, gas alot , which means you have to replace the water alot, (used in UPS units for banks, and other large computer operations).

NIMH is best, you don't have to worry about when to put on charger, or the other issues. Also if you only operate NIMH between 40% and 80% , they will last much much much longer according to specialists in the industry.
Is anyone else tired of the obnoxious large Pink blurb everytime I come to this site?

Yes, but limitedly. They have the lazy memory problem, which means if you don't have a very smart charger that runs them down first (to 20%?) then they won't give you back the full distance. IE; if you use them for 10 minutes , then put them back on the 'average dumb" charger, you will only get 10 minutes use next time out. You can however "refresh" them with varying degrees of success by draining them down with a resistor to the proper level first before recharging (20%?).

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The problem is from over charging them, and not fully cycling them enough, not how much you discharge them. Discharging them down to empty per cell does help break up the larger crystals though, restoring their active/usable capacity.

NIMH is best, you don't have to worry about when to put on charger, or the other issues. Also if you only operate NIMH between 40% and 80% , they will last much much much longer according to specialists in the industry.

Click to expand...

Not all NiMH cells are created equal. The Energizer Rechargeables (for example) are notoriously bad, quickly developing high self discharge rates, internal resistance, and voltage suppression. Eneloops, on the other hand, are the gold standard for quality NiMH AA and AAA cells.

Whichever type of cell is best suited depends on the application that it's going to be used in. NiCds are still better suited for some applications than NiMHs. For my needs, Eneloops are best suited overall. That's why I've standardized most of my AA and AAA cells to them.

The environmental cost of one cell type vs. another is a different issue, but should also be taken into consideration (in my opinion). The majority of battery users (and people in general) are irresponsible and should never be relied upon to recycle their batteries unless it involves doing no extra work at all and having an immediately quantifiable reward. (That's why Pb car batteries are recycled as much as they are.)

Does anyone else notice a smell when charging them? I had some Ni-Cads a while back and the smell reminded me of my childhood, patiently waiting for my cells to recharge so I could go play with my RC car again.

rmteo said:

If anyone is interested, I have the following NiCDs which you can have for FREE - just pay shipping from CO.

24x Panasonic sub-C 1400mAH, purple wrapper
16x sub-C 1400mAH, red wrapper, don't remember manufacturer
12x Panasonic 2/3A 600mAH, black wrapper (same size as CR123)
12x Sanyo AA 1100mAH, flat top light green wrapper
12x Sanyo 4/5A 1700mAH, flat top (same size as 17500)

These have never been used since purchased several years ago. PM if interested.

Click to expand...

All of the NiCD's have been taken. Thanks for your interest.

I'm still learning about rechargeable batteries more and more everyday but I'm not sure if the whole "memory effect" thing has any truth to it. There seem to be people on both sides of the debate. I myself don't know what to believe.

ebow86 said:

I'm still learning about rechargeable batteries more and more everyday but I'm not sure if the whole "memory effect" thing has any truth to it. There seem to be people on both sides of the debate. I myself don't know what to believe.

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Hi ebow. Yes there do seem to be two sides to the memory idea. I think Isidor Buchmann from Battery University has a pretty good explanation.

Also, there are several threads around where this has been discussed. A year or so ago, I remember one where BatteryGuy, RayofLight, and others, including myself, had a discussion going. It was mentioned by Ray, that there is a "clogging" of the electrode material, that occurs in NiMh cells that has a similar effect to the large crystal formations that develop in NiCd cells.

I know that I have seen NiMh cells that appeared to suffer from "memory effect". The solution to correct this "clogging" of NiMh cells also happens to be the same as for restoring NiCd cells. Perform a slow discharge followed by a 14-16 hr charge, and repeat, if necessary.

So as I see it, the cause may not be the same (or, maybe in some cases it is, according to Buchmann)), but the effect is the same, as well as the "cure". I'm sure the debate will continue anyway though.

Dave

I just purchased some NiCads for some 4 year old solar lights we have up north. They originally shipped with some Chinese 700 mAh Highstar NiCads that performed well for several years. Most now only hold about 100-200 mAh after refreshing on my LaCrosse BC-900, although one I was able to get back to 650. Had to remove a lot of oxidation on the terminals of the lights too. Tried using DeOxit from Caig and it worked ok.

Researched NiCads for a bit a couple weeks ago and decided to go with the Sanyo Cadnica 700 mAh N-700AACL which is the slightly shorter version that is compatible with most solar lights that use NiCads. After one discharge/refresh cycle on the Lacrosse, they were all in the 711-751 mAh range (all 10). Digikey had the cheapest price as the N-700AACL is actually a little hard to source. They shipped quickly from MN for what it's worth. The Cadnica's are performing well in my refurbished solar lights. I know solar lights have improved all around the past few years, but undertook this project for the challenge.

I have a ton of NiMH cells (mostly AA), but the only ones I use these days are the Duracell branded MIJ Eneloops I bought a couple years ago. They still have practically the same capacity as when I got them.

I think they still have their uses. I like the fact that they are cheap and you can draw really high current from them (I read they can handle 30 amp draw without sagging) capacity sucks compared to the other common chemistries but they charge up so quickly I don't find it a problem. Also I was amazed by their reliability, a few weeks ago I found a 7.2 volt NiCD battery pack that hadn't been used for about 7 years charged it up and it worked fine.

I don't think they'll be around much longer though, now we have LSD NiMH batteries and they are getting cheaper NiCD's are losing the few advantages they had

however one battery pack I found that was much newer than that one couldn't hold any charge at all