4sevens Maelstrom X10 Review with OTF lumens.

[vinhnguyen54]

I got the X10 Last night...I have mixed feelings about it. The hotspot is nice its throws well. I deactivate the thermal regualtion so there is no output drop anymore. The light got barely warm after 10 minutes. I feel like thermal regulation is not needed in this light at all. I do hate the very large ugly green spill with artifact right around the hotspot. The tint overall is definitely on the greenish side. Overall It's a great thrower and much shorter than the Scorpion V2 Turbo but I still like the TN more as it's a more sophisticated and the beam is beautifully white with no artifacts.

The S12 is a different light compares to the X10 so it's hard to compare. My S12 DD is significantly brighter than the X10. Yes the S12 doesn't throw as far but not a whole big deal. The overall output of the S12 makes it a more desirable light compare to the X10 in my opinion. Howveer, this is only the case of an S12 DD vs X10 with thermal regulation deactivated. Stock VS Stock I would say go for the X10. The output is not far behind but the throws is noticeably greater. My X10 measured about 2.6.2.8 at the tail cap with three different types of 26650.

But to me the best Single cell XML is still the Scorpion V2 with turbo head if performance was the primary consideration. Scorpion V2 has a higher Celing bounce reading VS the X10.

Beams shots tonight.

[Bass]

Bass,

Once again, beautiful images . Thanks for posting them and allowing me to use them. I'll update post #1 as soon as I have time.

ti-force - no problem at all, it's a pleasure. Thanks for including them!

Keep up the excellent work with your awesome reviews

[bigchelis]

I got the X10 Last night...I have mixed feelings about it. The hotspot is nice its throws well. I deactivate the thermal regualtion so there is no output drop anymore. The light got barely warm after 10 minutes. I feel like thermal regulation is not needed in this light at all. I do hate the very large ugly green spill with artifact right around the hotspot. The tint overall is definitely on the greenish side. Overall It's a great thrower and much shorter than the Scorpion V2 Turbo but I still like the TN more as it's a more sophisticated and the beam is beautifully white with no artifacts.

The S12 is a different light compares to the X10 so it's hard to compare. My S12 DD is significantly brighter than the X10. Yes the S12 doesn't throw as far but not a whole big deal. The overall output of the S12 makes it a more desirable light compare to the X10 in my opinion. Howveer, this is only the case of an S12 DD vs X10 with thermal regulation deactivated. Stock VS Stock I would say go for the X10. The output is not far behind but the throws is noticeably greater. My X10 measured about 2.6.2.8 at the tail cap with three different types of 26650.

But to me the best Single cell XML is still the Scorpion V2 with turbo head if performance was the primary consideration. Scorpion V2 has a higher Celing bounce reading VS the X10.

Beams shots tonight.

Im looking forward to your pictures Vinny. One thing with the XM-L is that at low 2.5A~3A I notice a green tint too. My other XM-L lights are all 4.5A~5A and the tint is pure white. Mine are Mag builds by Lamdalights but I do notice at lower currents the green shows its ugly face.

Vinny,
If you DD that XM-L you will get 4~5A at the tail and it might not turn blue at all. You will see the pure white tint if you are succesfull. The downside is no matter how hard you drive the XM-L the most OTF lumens after 30sec or so is high 900 to low 1000 OTF lumens.

bigC

[vinhnguyen54]

BigC,

I am not going to DD the X10...I feel its a waste of energy for not too much more lumen plus reliability will be significantly lowered.

Here are some beam shots to get us going...night ones coming tonight :-) I think the beam shots are self explanatory so no tittle necessary.

[vinhnguyen54]

If Ti-force lumen measurements of 750 lumen for the X10 is true then I am somewhat disappointed with my S12....

261/188= 1.388
1.388*750= 1040 lumen for S12 Hic Hic Hic....I always thought it was at least 1200

[bigchelis]

If Ti-force lumen measurements of 750 lumen for the X10 is true then I am somewhat disappointed with my S12....

261/188= 1.388
1.388*750= 1040 lumen for S12 Hic Hic Hic....I always thought it was at least 1200

You gotta get aftermarket cutterelectronics guaranteed high bin for that. The only non-high bin SST-90 I ever seen or tested is this S12. Its still bright though and the spill is great too.

bigC

[vinhnguyen54]

You gotta get aftermarket cutterelectronics guaranteed high bin for that. The only non-high bin SST-90 I ever seen or tested is this S12. Its still bright though and the spill is great too.

bigC

i am very happy with my S12 though. I chose this one among 5 different S12s. This is the brightest oen with a pure white tint. All the other ones are yellowish or green.

[Got Lumens?]

Great Job Guys!
Thanks for all your hard work and beamshots.
GL

[vinhnguyen54]

OK....So i just DD my X10...Tail cap pulled 4A on 18650 and 5A on 26650.

Celing bounce read 200 on 18650 and 215 on 26650....

200/188=> 6.4% increase
215/188=> 14.4% increase

1.064*750=798 lumen
1.14*750= 857 Lumen

Insignificant increase IMO

back to stock it goes :-(

[Colonel Sanders]

Wow...my X10 beam looks nothing like that! I think I might have tried to send that one back! Yuck.

Mine is just a tinsy bit yellow (practically white) in the hotspot and just a bit more yellow in the corona....not at all green. The side spill is definitely on the cool side (a little purple.) For my being a neutral fan I'm fairly pleased with the tint of this light...MUCH better than I was expecting.

FWIW, it pulls 2.95amp with a fresh IMR26650 at 4.22v. With the same battery at 3.89v it pulled 3.17a and breifly as high as 3.3a.

vin, was the DD method the same as with the S12? I can see on mine that killing TM is the same (just gotta clip either the neg or the pos to the resistor, right?) Thanks.

So the DD S12 is about 21% brighter than the DD X10 it seems. You did no "breaking in" of the XML, correct?

I bet the X10 at 857L really throws well! I think that might be worth it to me.

[Colonel Sanders]

One more question Vinhnguyen, the 5a pulled with 26650s...was that with IMRs or 4sevens? I'm thinking IMRs. Thanks.

[Claireandtim]

Hey Everyone... sorry to possibly disappoint but due to camera technical issues... no beamshots tonight. I will discuss my observations though, I definitely perceive the color of the S12 to by a more white blue in hue and the X10 to be on the warmer yellow side. I wouldn't go as far as saying the X10 is green, it is however noticeably different than the S12.

I actually like both of them as far as tint goes, I'd say the S12's crisper white color is nice but the tint of the X10 almost appears to be more true, maybe in the 4300K color range.

As far as brightness, to my eye the X10 appears brighter than the S12 on both low and high mode. I'm sure this is not hard to imagine due to the tighter beam, I also asked a few other bystanders (neighbors) and they all picked the X10 as appearing to be brighter. Also it's worth noting that when I say brighter, I'm not squinting with one eye and bouncing on one foot... it flat out, for sure appears brighter to my eyes. The X10 does of course lack the broadness of the S12 beam, but not by much. I'd say that the spill from the X10 is quite good and allows for a good amount of peripheral vision.

I used to love my S12 but after a short amount of time with the X10 I'm wondering if maybe that is about to change. For a pocket-able light bomb the S12 is what I would grab, I liked the broad spill and I thought it reached out pretty good... after running it side by side with the X10, the X10's spill still being good and the tighter hot spot reaching out further, I am leaning towards the X10 being superior for my own likes.

Hopefully tomorrow night I can get some beam shots up for comparison.

Cheers

[Claireandtim]

One more comment on both the S12 and the X10... both of my lights are what I consider to be very "gritty" in the tail cap threads.. it is noticeable, I can both hear and feel the grinding when tightening/loosening the tail cap, almost like sand grains are jammed up in the threads. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm sure that it's just from the manufacturing process but just figured that for the price of these lights the threads would be "clean" and smooth... other than that, we're all good!

[Colonel Sanders]

"both of my lights are what I consider to be very "gritty" in the tail cap threads.. it is noticeable, I can both hear and feel the grinding when tightening/loosening the tail cap, almost like sand grains are jammed up in the threads. Has anyone else experienced this?"

Yeah, same here to begin with but after playing with the light tonight a fair amount it has pretty much gone away. I will probably give it a few days and then clean and re-lube the threads if it's not totally smooth by then.

[vinhnguyen54]

OK, so I figured it out. The X10s have a slight green tint due to the angle of deflection. I used another XML I know for sure is pure white in the X10 reflector and the tint is still greenish although its white in other reflectors. So its a design thing. May be the design provide the best throw with compromise of the green tint shift. :-(

[jhc37013]

OK, so I figured it out. The X10s have a slight green tint due to the angle of deflection. I used another XML I know for sure is pure white in the X10 reflector and the tint is still greenish although its white in other reflectors. So its a design thing. May be the design provide the best throw with compromise of the green tint shift. :-(

That sounds like what David was talking about is Selfbuilts review, I don't remember the details but he called it delta tint caused by the flat die of the emitter, his comment was specific to the warmer corona area around the hotspot but maybe it affects the hotspot as well. Like you mention he said that was by design, a compromise between throw and tint.

[Colonel Sanders]

That makes sense but what explains this causing only a yellowish tint on some lights and guacamole on others? I wonder if the drive amperage varies enough between lights to affect this. Vinny, I think you mentioned yours pulling only 2.6-2.8a at the tailcap. Mine is generally above 3.1a. Did your tint change when you put it in DD?

I guess I need to post my first beamshot to show you what color this thing is. I've also noticed that my light seems to have different but less noticeable artifacts than the pics I've seen posted by the reviewers.

I did my first LED light mod last night...I disabled the TM! I just snipped the black resistor wire.

I tried to talk myself in to going DD but I haven't had much experience with the soldering gun so I think I will get someone else to do it. I would like to come up with a way that allows switching back and forth from regulated to DD without de-soldering and re-soldering. Some kind of switch or quick disconnects.

[Got Lumens?]

That makes sense but what explains this causing only a yellowish tint on some lights and guacamole on others? I wonder if the drive amperage varies enough between lights to affect this. Vinny, I think you mentioned yours pulling only 2.6-2.8a at the tailcap. Mine is generally above 3.1a. Did your tint change when you put it in DD?

I guess I need to post my first beamshot to show you what color this thing is. I've also noticed that my light seems to have different but less noticeable artifacts than the pics I've seen posted by the reviewers.

I did my first LED light mod last night...I disabled the TM! I just snipped the black resistor wire.

I tried to talk myself in to going DD but I haven't had much experience with the soldering gun so I think I will get someone else to do it. I would like to come up with a way that allows switching back and forth from regulated to DD without de-soldering and re-soldering. Some kind of switch or quick disconnects.

+1
I really like that idea. Pretty sraight forward.
Only problem is to find connectors small enough to handle the current amd amperage. A pin and socket from a computer plug(radioShack) is the only thing that comes to mind that would be small enough to fit, not sure if it would work. They will work with 26 or 24ga wire.
GL

[vinhnguyen54]

this switch idea is much better suited for the S12. The X10 gains nothing noticeable on DD.

[Colonel Sanders]

this switch idea is much better suited for the S12. The X10 gains nothing noticeable on DD.

The S12 gained only about 22%, right? 850 up to 1041. And that seemed like a pretty good gain. The X10 gained 14%. Is it really that hard to tell a difference when DDing the X10? If 22% is really good one would think that 14% is at least ok.

Anyway, I'm very happy with the X10 with just the TM disabled. I was amazed with how well it matched up against my ~70watt incan light (FM1909 bulb running off 3x26650s with a deep reflector in a Mag host) last night. It was tit for tat in throw (maybe a little edge to the FM1909 at the very center of the hot spot) and seemingly just a bit better in total light output as well. I also tested it against a WA1111 incan Mag (35w) I have and the X10 blew it away in every regard. It's funny seeing this tiny light humiliate these huge 2D and 3D Mags.

[vinhnguyen54]

The percentage gain calculated above is of course not very acurate. Throw light have a higher concentrated spot so more light is bounce back down from the ceiling which appear to have a higher reading. Flooder have a less concentrated hot spot so less light gets bounce back to the meter thus a lower reading. In reality the S12 gain more than 22% while the X14 might gain about 14%, a little more or even less.

Say you have 5 lumen hitting the ceiling in 5 different spot. All those lumen might get absorb into the ceiling and never bounce back enough to be register on the meter. However, if you hit 5 lumen on the same exact spot, and say two get absorb, 3 might be about to reflect back to the meter....

Anyhow, The S12 is significantly brighter with DD, while the X10 is not. At least to the naked eyes regardless of what the meter says. Only an integrating sphere would know for sure.

[ti-force]

vinhnguyen54,

I was just about to reply with very similar info to what you just posted in post #81. When doing ceiling bounce tests it would be best to stick with percentage gains instead of trying to calculate lumen gains or lumen output at all. Like you said, there are too many variables while doing a ceiling bounce test to calculate lumen output. For starters you would need a light with a known output, but your X10 might possibly have a U2 flux binned XM-L emitter in it which would most likely mean that it outputs more lumens than my sample did. Anyway I won't ramble on about this because I think you already know this information.

On to the tint of your X10. It really does appear green in your indoor beam shots. I'm sorry you ended up with an emitter that has more of a greenish tint. My sample didn't have any green tint to it, or at least not to my eyes. It was more neutral colored. But they don't call it playing the tint bin lottery for nothing, I guess. Anyway, it just so happens that I have an extra neutral white XM-L emitter straight from Cutter in Australia. It has a T6 flux binning with 3C tint binning (5000K). You could be the first to have a neutral white tinted X10 . Just a thought.


Claireandtim,

Sorry to hear about your camera issues. Hopefully you can get it worked out and post some outdoor beam shots here. My sample didn't have the "gritty" sounding tail cap issue you describe. I'm not really sure what that could be caused from. Perhaps a lack of lubricant on the threads?

That makes sense but what explains this causing only a yellowish tint on some lights and guacamole on others?

It could be from variances within the same tint binning or it could be from a different tint binning altogether. Drive current does affect tint, but I don't think the drive current varies enough from one sample to another to cause anywhere near that difference in tint as long as both samples are being compared with close to the same controls, i.e., same temperature, both lights have fully charged batteries, etc. I would sooner say it's a tint variance between both emitters.

[vinhnguyen54]

I would love to try out the neutral tint and see how it goes in the X10! Whats your paypal? :-) Thanks Man!

[Colonel Sanders]

Thanks Vinny and Ti.

Quick question for ya'll or anyone else with an X10. How long do you have to wait after turning the light off for that level to stick in memory? It's supposed to be only >1 second but I have to wait 3.5 seconds if saving to high output and 4 seconds if saving to low. It doesn't matter whether I'm using the button or twisting the cap.

Is it possible that disabling the thermal management caused this? I wouldn't think so but I kinda think it wasn't taking this long when I first got the light (But I'm not sure. It might have been like this before and I didn't notice.)

[Claireandtim]

Hey Guys

I believe the camera technical difficulties have been sorted out and we should be good to go for beamshots tonight. It's fairly rural here and I have an empty field that is dotted with power poles and a tree line that is a bit farther out. I will attempt to get several objectves for comparison...

I don't have a huge library of lights but if anyone wants to see one of the following in the mix (for referrence) let me know;

SL Stinger LED HP
SL Strion LED HP
SL Strion (more floody than the HP version)
35W HID Spotlight (not relevant but thought I'd throw it out there)
35W Handheld HID searchlight

[vinhnguyen54]

Throw in the HID! :-)

[scot]

Definitely the HID's!!!

[Claireandtim]

HID's it is!!! now we wait for the absence of daylight...

[Got Lumens?]

HID's it is!!! now we wait for the absence of daylight...

Thanks for doing this, I am looking forward to them.
GL

[vinhnguyen54]

SR91


M3C4


Skyray3800


Scorpion V2 Turbo


X10


S12