Callie's Kustoms 18650 High Discharge Battery Review

From Callie's Kustoms :


18650 Unprotected Battery
2250mAh
Unprotected
10A Max Discharge
Max Charge/Max discharge voltage 4.2/3v
Panasonic uses "PSS Technology" in this battery. A solid solution technology that allows the high capacity of a
standard Lithium-Ion battery and the safety of an IMR battery. This is truly a revolutionary battery!






For testing I have the Callie's Kustoms 18650 High discharge battery , the first thing I did was to test capacity by discharging from 4.2v to 3v @ 0.5A in my Hobby charger , I did this twice , and the results are 2168mAh for the first run and 2162mAh for the second run , and those results are very close and consistent , a good sign .

The next test was to test for discharge capability [ Amps ] , and I used 3 flashlights for this , my best XR-E R2 , my MTE SSC P7 [ long time test light ] and my XM-L T6 3 mode [ from Manafont ] , as the T6 is a serious battery vampire , and when you take a peak at the result graph you will see why .

TFF = Trustfire Flame or second battery from left , and TFG = Trustfire Grey third from the left and CK = Callie's Kustoms .
From the left cell 4 = Samsung 26C and cell 5 = Samsung 28A , from the left Cell 1 = Sanyo 2600 and the 3rd from the right = IMR and the black cell next to the IMR is the AW2600 .



Wow , check out the Callie's Kustoms [ CK ] , 3.9A in the XM-L . That is simply fantastic , and it goes without saying , it has simply wiped the floor with the other batteries when it comes to power delivery [ Max Amps ] . Callie's Kustoms has delivered again , a 18650 that performs so well and gives folks an option to other IMR . If you have to have the best , the highest possible power delivery , decent capacity , you need to visit Callie's Kustoms and check out this battery , it has impressed the heck out of me .

Id like to thank Callie's Kustoms for making this review possible .

old4570

I've tested the Panasonic CGR18650CH for a few months now. It's a decent mid-high current battery, but I'm not convinced of the safety aspects of it. As far as I know, its still a Lithium Cobalt cell, but probably has a hybrid cathode material, which makes higher discharge currents possible.

"Panasonic uses "PSS Technology" in this battery. A solid solution technology that allows the high capacity of a
standard Lithium-Ion battery and the safety of an IMR battery. This is truly a revolutionary battery!"

This statement right here is a little bold without any sources mentioned. From my research, I don't see that Panasonic says this particular cell model is any safer than other models. Also, Panasonic recommends protecting the cell:

"Panasonic only supplies the new PSS models with an "external" safety unit, that immediately cuts off the current flow if the current is too high, the temperature is too high or there is a short circuit thus ensuring an additional safeguard against overheating and combustion."

According to Panasonic they are "safe" or at least as safe as IMR's http://www.pohl-electronic.de/pdf/Panasonic/CGR18650CH.pdf Their chart pretty much sums up what they think of it.

http://www.electronicscomponentsworld.com/articleView~idArticle~72644_6901057142642011.html

Fair enough, also quite interesting that that datasheet is on another companies website is no where to be found on Panasonics site (which is where I went to look originally when I first got samples and tested these).

Also I just noticed that these don't have a PTC!!! This is the primary form of mechanical protection in a Li-ion cell! When the cell heats up (usually in an overcurrent situation) the PTC will change phases and will temporarily shut down the cell until it cools down again and the PTC material goes back to its original phase. My guess is they decided to do without the PTC so they could pack in more energy.

Seems a bit risky to run a cell like this with no electronic protection circuit and no PTC. Wonder what happens if its shorted out?!

Treat your lights and batteries with respect ...

Its a little like drag racing ! The faster you plan on going , the safer you need to be ..

My interpretation is that cells with the nickel layer are more resistant to abuse, such as being used at high discharge rates, or over discharging. My impression is however, that this does not quite bring them to the level of safety that IMR cells offer. As for the lack of a PTC on these cells, that's news to me! Yikes!

And just as a reminder, none of the so called "safe" Li-Ion cells are really safe, as many distributors and vendors like to call them. You can abuse LiMn (IMR) cells somewhat more than LiCo (ICR) cells, and LiFePO4 (LiFe, or IFR) cells quite a bit more, but if subjected to a high enough level of abuse, they can all vent. "Safer" would be a better description, IMO.

Dave

Let me first state I do not consider ANY battery as being inherently safe.

Now lets test the "POOF" theory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaosGRX9BaQ

What shows them without a PTC? the linked document http://www.pohl-electronic.de/pdf/Panasonic/CGR18650CH.pdf definitely shows a PTC :thinking:

xxllmm4 said:

Let me first state I do not consider ANY battery as being inherently safe.

Now lets test the "POOF" theory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaosGRX9BaQ

Click to expand...

Nice video. It looks like what most likely happened is because of the lack of a PTC, the current was not cut off at all and this allowed the cell to be destroyed when short circuited (unlike your 3100 test with a PTC). I'd be curious to see if the results are any different when its dead shorted with something of lesser resistance (e.g. a C clamp, rather than two thin wires twisted together).

--------------

CKOD said:

What shows them without a PTC? the linked document http://www.pohl-electronic.de/pdf/Panasonic/CGR18650CH.pdf definitely shows a PTC :thinking:

Click to expand...

It's a little Panasonic trickory going on. Look at the first paragraph there is an asterix (*) symbol that says "This battery is not equipped with a PTC."

I wouldnt really call multi strand 14awg ofc wire thin. The resistance is going to be a lot less than going through a C Clamp but I do like the idea. I happen to have a big clamp that would be perfect

Do you have a clamp meter that would fit around the shorting clamp/cable?

It's a little Panasonic trickory going on. Look at the first paragraph there is an asterix (*) symbol that says "This battery is not equipped with a PTC."[/QUOTE]

Shens! Would take them a few mins to get rid of the PTC from the drawing...

Will cottonpicker's USB charger play nicely with the CK cell? It's a LiCo cell right, and that means it is a ICR? If that's the case then CP's charger will work with it.

jasonck08 said:

It's a little Panasonic trickory going on. Look at the first paragraph there is an asterix (*) symbol that says "This battery is not equipped with a PTC."

Click to expand...

That is a bit odd. I thought that all Li-Ion cells from the major manufacturers had PTC devices, including LiMn and Life cells. As I understand it, some of the cheap Chinese cells do not, but most Chinese cells do. This really seems odd and I wonder if a mistake has been made in that .pdf?

xxllmm4 said:

Now lets test the "POOF" theory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaosGRX9BaQ

Click to expand...

To what "POOF theory" are you referring to? I recall seeing videos of conventional LiCo cells where a similar so called "test" was performed. Nothing happened with them either. Most "incidents" occur when cells have been repeatedly abused. Then, it's not so much a question of "if" the cell will vent, but "when". As I said before, this applies to LiMn and LiFe cells, as well. They are all capable of venting under the right conditions, particularly if the cell has been abused.

I'm not saying that Panasonic hasn't improved the safety of these cells with their new technology, I'm sure they have. The impression I get from sources other than the manufacturer though, is that these cells do not provide quite the same level of safety as LiMn.

Again, most problems with Li-Ion cells occur with used cells that have been improperly cared for, or abused. The effects of mishandling Li-Ion cells most often is cumulative over time, and not readily apparent. For example, I would not want to carry a light with the cell you "tested" installed, in my pocket. Maybe you should do a dozen or so repeat 'tests" with that same cell? That would be an interesting extension of the "test".

Dave

I am under the distinct impression it does not matter what I do, how I "test" them or what the results are.

I'm done with this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haMDZOfjqsE&feature=player_embedded

Interesting : CK and AW IMR short circuit

The video shows exactly what will happen when you dead short a 15C rated ( AW IMR18650 ) against a 5C rated ( Panasonic CGR18650CH ). The AW IMR will
dump at least 3X amperage and hence runs hotter due to its higher current output capability and lower cell internal resistance.

Here is another interesting video about a well used AW IMR18650 against a new bigger IMR26650 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Niw6or2lRAY


AW IMR running handicapped ( 7.4V ) against A123 / LiPo / NiMH ( 9.9V vs 9.9V vs 8.4V ) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akAAZ80JNDU



AW IMR voltage under load against others :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfJeu7NfSZE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjjDGb0zpzk&feature=related

AW said:

The video shows exactly what will happen when you dead short a 15C rated ( AW IMR18650 ) against a 5C rated ( Panasonic CGR18650CH ). The AW IMR will
dump at least 3X amperage and hence runs hotter due to its higher current output capability and lower cell internal resistance.

Here is another interesting video about a well used AW IMR18650 against a new bigger IMR26650 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Niw6or2lRAY


AW IMR running handicapped ( 7.4V ) against A123 / LiPo / NiMH ( 9.9V vs 9.9V vs 8.4V ) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akAAZ80JNDU



AW IMR voltage under load against others :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfJeu7NfSZE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjjDGb0zpzk&feature=related

Click to expand...

Some interesting video : but how relevant some are to flashlights ?

Interesting never the less - hmmmm

Current output capability and voltage under load characteristics are the core performance guidelines of a battery. These information are valuable to all users no matter you are
a flashaholics or other user groups. Every different user groups have their own means to test the performance of a battery ( using a flashlight / a laser / a vaporizor / a airsoft gun /
a motor or any other devices they are using ) but the results they are trying to look for is the same two elements.

old4570 said:

Some interesting video : but how relevant some are to flashlights ?

Interesting never the less - hmmmm

Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPA4cdeyYng CK 18650

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_suW7gMo0 IMR



Voltage sag @ 1A CK VS my IMR ...

Now if anyone has a brand new IMR , please take a video , 1Amp discharge !
My IMR has had very little use , but its over 1 year old ...
So , anyone with a fresh IMR ...

This is very interesting .....

And voltage sag in a well regulated light - is not that important .. Capacity is far more important ... In Direct Drive - yes it becomes important , and more so in single cell use . A few tenths of tenths here or there ????