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Thread: Changing LED Tint With Filters

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Dean View Post
    Hondo, yes... I've had this filter book for 4-5 years, and it has all the filters numbered sequentially, but it does also list a random number and name:
    Derek,
    Thanks for sharing Swatch Book!
    The New Swatch Book, Designer Edition, does not have page numbers.
    Does anyone know of a different edition currently for sale that has page numbers?

    The Swatch Book Designer Edition is arranged Per wavelength. Starting in the Ultra-Violets and progressing to the Infra-Reds, The diffusing films/fabrics, and then the Diffusion Foils and Reflective Films/Foils.

    I will play around with it some and report back my results.

    I guess for those that have a newer swatch book without page numbering, mention the approximate Wavelength section the filter is from.
    Example: #100 Spring Yellow ~600nm or #332 Special Rose Pink ~700nm. This way those with and those without page numbers can find a particular filter much easier and faster.
    GL

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Perhaps you should order the Numeric Edition Swatch Book.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by bla2000 View Post
    Perhaps you should order the Numeric Edition Swatch Book.
    Thanks Bla
    GL

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by bla2000 View Post
    Perhaps you should order the Numeric Edition Swatch Book.
    Oh, crumb! I already ordered a couple of the non-numbered swatch books not realizing that these were available. Oh, well.

    By the way, I was considering using one of these filters to improve the tint on my new HDS Systems Rotary (yes...I'm picky about tint!) but in the maintenance section of the User's Guide it says that the anti-reflective coating on the glass lens can be abraded by rubbing or cleaning and even warns against using paper tissues or towels to clean or dry the lens as the fibers are abrasive.

    So it probably wouldn't be a good idea to adhere one of these tint filters to it. Any thoughts on this?

  5. #65

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    As long as you cut the filter to just the right size then it will not be able to move around. Thus it cannot scratch your lens. Unless there is some other way that it could be damaged by using a filter then I think you will be fine.
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  6. #66
    Flashaholic* Derek Dean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Flashlike, if you can remove the bezel of your HDS, you can place the filter inside the front glass cover (between the glass and the reflector) and no adhesive will be needed. Just cut the filter the same size as the glass cover, then reassemble, and the filter is held in place against the reflector by the front glass cover and bezel.

    If you do need to mount it to the outside, careful and patient trimming of the filter might allow you to friction fit the filter down on top of the glass, with it being held in place by the edges pressing just slightly against the interior sides of the bezel, or catching in the groove between the outside of the glass and the bezel.

    That's how I fit my filters down on the outside of the glass covers of both my Fenix LD01 and Jetbeam BK-135a, no adhesive used, and no problems with the filters staying in place over the last month with extensive daily use.

    To be clear, the difference between these two methods is the size that you cut the filter. When mounting INSIDE the glass, the filter needs to be the same size as the glass, that way it's held in place by pressure against the top edge of the reflector, and when mounting OUTSIDE the glass, the filter needs to be smaller, just a teesie-weensie bit larger than the interior of the front bezel, that way it's held in place either by friction against the interior side of the bezel, or it slips into the groove where the outside of the glass meets the bezel.

    Edit: By the way, with either method I found that after trimming the filters they ended up being a bit yucky with fingerprints, so I was careful to clean them before installation. I wear glasses, so I simply used one of my eyeglass cleaning tissues which are designed to not scratch the coating on my glasses. Worked like a charm.
    Last edited by Derek Dean; 09-17-2011 at 02:24 AM. Reason: Added filter cleaning info

  7. #67

    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    I finally got around to sticking a diffuser type film in my Nitecore EX10. Here are a couple of pics. Same settings on the camera, F2.8, 1/50 exposure, ISO 100, don't think the white balance shifted any. Anyway.....

    This is Nitecore EX10 sans diffuser:


    .....and with the diffuser film


    Ignore the Coke-a-Cola can and Newcastle bottle.
    Notice how the hotspot gets wiped out and makes a much larger portion of the "beam" a uniform brightness. Some light loss for sure, but for my purposes a more usable pattern. Low is now very low and that's a good thing. I traced the lens and used a brand new razor to cut the film, popped off the bezel and stuck it under the lens. Might have compromised the water resistance a smidge, not a worry tho as the EX is my indoors light.
    I seem to have misplaced my occipital lobe, and as such cannot search for it. Do you see my dilemma?

  8. #68
    Flashaholic* Paul_in_Maryland's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    I've been wanting to warm up the tint on my Dereelight 3-mode XP-G R5 drop-in. My chief criterion was, "How accurately does the filter render flesh tones?"

    From a dozen candidate filters, eight made my skin look too sallow. That left four finalists:

    103 Straw (Y=81.6%)
    444 Eight C.T. Straw Daylight to Tungsten 5700K, yellow bias(Y=83.1%)
    763 Wheat (Y=84.3%)
    774 Soft Amber Key 1 (Y=71%)

    I've installed 444; I'll share my impressions after I've had some experience at all three output levels.

    774 was a close second; skin tones were probably at least as accurate, but I felt that it made colors just a bit too saturated. And, to be honest, the meager 71 percent transmission rate seemed too high a price.
    My lights, all AA, neutral or warm: 3 Fenix TK20s; 2 Malkoff M30WFs; 2 Shiningbeam Romisens (5A); Dereelight XP-G R5 (close enough); UK 4AA incan.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by brembo View Post
    I finally got around to sticking a diffuser type film in my Nitecore EX10. Here are a couple of pics. Same settings on the camera, F2.8, 1/50 exposure, ISO 100, don't think the white balance shifted any. Anyway.....

    Ignore the Coke-a-Cola can and Newcastle bottle.
    Notice how the hotspot gets wiped out and makes a much larger portion of the "beam" a uniform brightness. Some light loss for sure, but for my purposes a more usable pattern. Low is now very low and that's a good thing. I traced the lens and used a brand new razor to cut the film, popped off the bezel and stuck it under the lens. Might have compromised the water resistance a smidge, not a worry tho as the EX is my indoors light.
    Hi Brembo,
    I am not ignoring the coke can .
    That is a very excellent representation of type of beam. Without out the filter you see more of the back side of the can, more reflecting off wall, and a small pinpoint refection of the light on the front of the can. With the filter, the diffusion film clearly illuminates the front of the can, providing an even spread of the beam(wider illumination), and less intense refection off the wall not illuminating the back of the can, and shows a larger reflection of the front of the light.
    Excellent photos
    GL

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Nice thread! I ordered the Roscolux sampler and just received it 2 days ago. Now that I've found this thread I just ordered a couple of Lee swatches as well.

    I don't have any LEDs with a green or really bad tint. I got the filters just to experiment with however so far I've found the Pale Bastard Amber (transmission 88%) makes a P60 XP-G light that I have just a little better.

    I used a can of nuts with colors similar to a soup can (red, blue with a little white) as a test subject. It looked OK to me without the filter but with the filter it was noticeable better.

    I don't have all that many lights and some are throwers that I'm not willing to reduce the light transmission anyway.

    Other lights that I can't take apart are lower down on the list as well. That leaves a few to play with though.

    I cut the plastic connector through the swatch and replaced it with a loop of string which makes it much easier to use. I make sure I leave a bit of the filter in the pack even when I use the rest just for reference.

    I've used a lot of diffusion materials on my lights in the past but this is the first time I've done much with filters outside of photography.

    This will be a fun thread to continue reading as more people experiment with their lights!
    Last edited by gcbryan; 09-25-2011 at 05:07 PM.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Who knows how to open the head of a Zebra SC30?
    I seem to have misplaced my occipital lobe, and as such cannot search for it. Do you see my dilemma?

  12. #72
    Flashaholic* Paul_in_Maryland's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    I'm delighted with my Dereelight's new beam color. Heeding Derek Dean's advice, I chose a filter (444 Wheat) that didn't overcorrect. The strategy worked. Colors simply look on the money, unbiased. Having bought into the notion that a higher color temperature means a lower color rendering index, I'm finding it startling that I can have a high CRI without a yellow tint. A 20 percent light loss is well worth the benefit.

    With a book full of tinted film, I can now pick from 50 times as many lights and avoid paying a premium for hard-to-find warm emitters. Truth be told, had I tried the Lee filters two weeks sooner, I wouldn't have paid an extra $30 to buy a Peak Eiger in high-CRI.
    My lights, all AA, neutral or warm: 3 Fenix TK20s; 2 Malkoff M30WFs; 2 Shiningbeam Romisens (5A); Dereelight XP-G R5 (close enough); UK 4AA incan.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    It appears that 444 Wheat doesn't improve color accuracy as much as I thought. When I compared to 444-Dereelight to a Peak Eiger with a Nichia high-CRI (92) emitter, it was no contest. Hues that blended together with the Dereelight were clearly differentiated (corrected from "different") when illuminated by the Nichia. They also looked more saturated, probably because the Nichis is warmer.

    I guess I'll try a more aggressive filter: 774 Soft Amber Key 1 (Y=71%).
    Last edited by Paul_in_Maryland; 10-03-2011 at 07:49 PM.
    My lights, all AA, neutral or warm: 3 Fenix TK20s; 2 Malkoff M30WFs; 2 Shiningbeam Romisens (5A); Dereelight XP-G R5 (close enough); UK 4AA incan.

  14. #74

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    I just recently purchased a Dereelight Javelin from the MP. (Awesome torch btw) The tint is rather blue to my eyes. Perhaps it's time to freshen the color up and bring it more towards neutral. I have resisted up until this point simply because I wanted to see if it would grow on me but it hasn't. I've been spotting rabbits with it for the past week or so and it's just not right. I'll keep you guys and gals updated as I try different filters.
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  15. #75

    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    This is a great thread

    I just ordered one of the sample books and bought about 20 bolt covers from home depot to make various tint, diffusers, and color lens holders for my flashlights
    Last edited by dd61999; 10-03-2011 at 09:35 AM.

  16. #76
    Flashaholic* Derek Dean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_in_Maryland View Post
    It appears that 444 Wheat doesn't improve color accuracy as much as I thought. When I compared to 444-Dereelight to a Peak Eiger with a Nichia high-CRI (92) emitter, it was no contest. Hues that blended together with the Dereelight were clearly different when illuminated by the Nichia. They also looked more saturated, probably because the Nichis is warmer.

    I guess I'll try a more aggressive filter: 774 Soft Amber Key 1 (Y=71%).
    From my reading over in the Peak forum it appears that the Nichia high CRI LED takes a 50% hit in output compared to the cool white XP-G that Curt normally uses in the Eiger, so if the Soft Amber Key filter will get you in the same ball park, then it seems to me that a 71% transmission rate is still pretty good compared to the Nichia.

    I'll be interested to hear your progress, Paul. Thanks to everybody for your updates.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    I'm having fun experimenting with the filter as well but regarding increasing the CRI with filters that isn't going to happen. You can change the tint but you can't add anything with filters (only subtract). You can't make a light high CRI with filters (as far as I know).

    You can remove some excess blue tint and the colors will render better (which is more or less what we are all doing I would imagine).
    Last edited by gcbryan; 10-03-2011 at 08:41 PM.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Well, that's certainly one of the questions we've been wrestling with in this thread.

    Of course filters are subtractive in nature (hence the drop in light output when using them), but if an LED has all of the required wavelengths of visible light, and you use a filter to help reduce or eliminate an excess in a particular wavelength, does that effectively increase the CRI?

    It's a good question.

    My own personal experience with using these filters suggests that it does indeed help with color rendition, but of course that's purely subjective on my part.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    I'm pretty sure the answer is that yes you do improve the color rendition by removing excessive blue but you don't make the CRI of the output any higher than it was in the beginning.

    So, yes it's a useful thing to do but I don't think it raises the CRI. Just like an emitter offered in warm, neutral or cool is referring to the tint. Another offering is whether it has a high CRI or not and that will usually be at least a neutral tint as well (in addition).

    I don't think an emitter that isn't high CRI does have all of the wavelengths of light.

    I'm no expert here however.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    My Googlized reading on the matter of CRI makes me think that if we want to discuss a light's color rendering ability, we not only have to know it's CRI, but just as importantly, it's color temperature.

    If I'm understanding CRI correctly, while the Nichia LED may have a higher CRI, it won't necessarily allow us to distinguish colors in the blue spectrum correctly because of it's warm color temperature, and that it might be possible for a properly filtered LED with a lower CRI (but higher color temp) to render certain colors more faithfully.

    Maybe Paul can comment on this after he's played with the filters more and compared them to his Nichia fitted light.

  21. #81

    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Does any one have a filter recommendation for those 5mm leds with a blue hotspot. Would love to put a decent filter on all the headlamps I have

  22. #82
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    I got my filter pack two weeks ago, but haven't had time to do anything with it yet (big review in the works). Anyways, here's my 2 cents:

    You might get better color rendition by substracting the high color peak, but I doubt that really raises the CRI, at least not by much. It definitely will not add to the spectrum so, even though the light might look warmer or more neutral, you will not perceive colors out of the LED's spectrum much better; only those colors that interfere with the part of the spectrum you have filtered out.

    In the end, if the user is more satisfied with the results then it's worth it and I will definitely try it out the second I have some time.
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  23. #83
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by dd61999 View Post
    Does any one have a filter recommendation for those 5mm leds with a blue hotspot. Would love to put a decent filter on all the headlamps I have
    Try one of the light amber colors. I used one with a 88% transmission rate (Bastard Amber or something like that).

    A good test is just to shine your light on a soup can with red, white and blue in the label. Then use the amber filter and see if white still looks white (or better than before) and if the colors look truer. When you now take away the filter you will instantly see the improvement.

  24. #84

    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    After several hours of playing around with these things. I find the 763 Wheat is a good compromise and works well with many of my lights from a neutral cree all the way to a 5mm nichia with a bluish hotspot. Of course with more tinkering I could find a better fitted filter for each light. But I find this filter offers a good universal compromise of better color rendition (not the best just better) without sacrificing to much brightness.

    Of course this is just my opinion but might be helpful for someone just looking for a filter and not play around with the whole sample book. I know many like different shades of amber, but it just put to much red/brown light out there for my liking.

  25. #85
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    I noticed that in the Lee Filter pack (as opposed to the Rosco pack) that they have more diffusion filters. A couple of them are particularly interesting...1/16 and 1/8 diffusion. The 1/16 is so mild that you can put it on an aspheric light and if softens it but still keeps the emitter image (not that you would want to do this with an aspheric). With the 1/8 you no longer see the emitter image but you do have a softened spot on the wall.

    It's just interesting to see all the permutations that one could get with diffusion.

    I'll also mention for those just now ordering the Lee Filters. It's not a bad idea to get both the Designers Edition and the Numbered Edition. The numbered version may be easier if you are communicating with someone about a specific filter as was mentioned earlier in this thread. However, the designers version is much more intuitive to work with in finding the appropriate color since the colors are arranged more like you would expect to find them in a color spectrum.
    Last edited by gcbryan; 10-09-2011 at 12:56 PM.

  26. #86

    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Does anyone know of a UK supplier of these filters ?

    or could someone tell me what would be the ideal colour filter to make my Mag and tiablo A9 with the Cree led installed look more like the colour of a halogen bulb ?

  27. #87
    Flashaholic* Cataract's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by vincevoxbox View Post
    Does anyone know of a UK supplier of these filters ?

    or could someone tell me what would be the ideal colour filter to make my Mag and tiablo A9 with the Cree led installed look more like the colour of a halogen bulb ?
    I couldn't find a distributor in Canada, so I just headed to the biggest camera store in town and they had plenty.
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  28. #88
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by vincevoxbox View Post
    Does anyone know of a UK supplier of these filters ?
    I got mine from hi-lights.tv

  29. #89
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Quote Originally Posted by vincevoxbox View Post
    Does anyone know of a UK supplier of these filters ?

    or could someone tell me what would be the ideal colour filter to make my Mag and tiablo A9 with the Cree led installed look more like the colour of a halogen bulb ?
    Lee Filters is a UK company. You probably need something in the amber range but that's the beauty of the sample filters...you can try them all!

  30. #90
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    Default Re: Changing LED Tint With Filters

    Since everyone on here has multiple flashlights and presumably a filter pack as well here is an interesting light experiment.

    Tape a red, blue, and green filter over 3 lights (one each of course). Prop up a white piece of cardboard or paper on your desktop as a background and stand an Eneloop (or anything really) about an inch in front of that white background. Turn on all of the flashlights and aim them all at the Eneloop. So you will have a spot of red, green, and blue all coming together.

    Where they all come together behind the Eneloop will be white. Any area where they don't overlap at all will either be blue, green, or red. There will also be 3 shadows and they will be cyan, yellow, and magenta. If you position the lights just right you will also have some areas with just green, some with just blue and some with just red (just is behind the Eneloop where only one color gets through).

    You will have 6 colors in all from just 3 light. Try moving your hand just in front of the white paper as well for a more dynamic effect...you will get the same shadow effect of yellow, cyan, and magenta. You might even be surprised to see that green and red makes yellow!

    For anyone reading this who doesn't have your filter pack yet just use 3 clear drinking glasses and some food dye ($3 from any grocery store). Put some blue dye in one glass, red in another glass, and green in the 3rd glass and position each flashlight behind each glass for the same effect.

    It's fun...what can I say!

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