Changing LED Tint With Filters

[saabluster]

It's interesting to me that the Philips LED light bulb is basically a bunch of blue-white LEDs that are being filtered with several yellow panels:

Well filtering is not exactly what they are doing. Those are phosphor impregnated which is actually converting blue to other wavelengths not simply filtering out the undesirable to reach an ideal tint. There is a significant difference there.

[Cataract]

Well filtering is not exactly what they are doing. Those are phosphor impregnated which is actually converting blue to other wavelengths not simply filtering out the undesirable to reach an ideal tint. There is a significant difference there.

Interesting... phosphorous filters... any chance they make those in sheets?

[saabluster]

Interesting... phosphorous filters... any chance they make those in sheets?

Yes they do. Its called Chromalit and can be purchased at Future Electronics.

[nutcracker]

This?
http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/...ource=googleps

[saabluster]

This?
http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/...ource=googleps

That's it. There are several temps to choose from. They work very well.

[Derek Dean]

Howdy saabluster,
Oh, that's VERY cool. Thanks for pointing out the difference!

nutcracker, thanks for the link.

That is pretty neat stuff, although the closest I found to what I'd be interested in was 4000k with 80 CRI, or 5000k with 70 CRI. I imagine used in a flashlight this would provide a super flat flood. Hmmmm.......

[Cataract]

WOW! It does seems like it would only provide for a flood filter, though. I've been looking into making my own flood filter adaptors and I'll definitely try one of those when I get there.

[Got Lumens?]

WOW! It does seems like it would only provide for a flood filter, though. I've been looking into making my own flood filter adaptors and I'll definitely try one of those when I get there.

The Lee Swatch book has a pretty good selection of diffusion filters. I have tried several of them with great success. My only gripe is the Swatch book filters are only 1.5" wide, but knowing about that Chromalit solves that problem, Thanks Saabluster.
GL

[Harold_B]

Perhaps the difference between filters and the remote phosphors was a little understated? I noticed the remote phosphors being referred to as "phosphor filters" and that there is interest in using them as a secondary means of changing the color temperature. Unless the Chromalit is specifically formulated to downconvert a cool white then it's not going to work that way. The literature does (and all of the demos I have had with the product) require a blue LED.

There's this as a secondary reference on optimizing the Chromalit product: http://www.intematix.com/uploads/fil..._chromalit.pdf

The basic difference is that filters remove a part of the spectrum to change to color temperature; phosphors absorb a specific wavelength and downconvert that to another wavelength.

[och]

These intematix filters are garbage IMO. I bought one to try it out, and it works as far as changing color goes, but it also obscures most of the light - judging just by looks alone about 70% of light is lost.

[Got Lumens?]

These intematix filters are garbage IMO. I bought one to try it out, and it works as far as changing color goes, but it also obscures most of the light - judging just by looks alone about 70% of light is lost.

I would stick to the swatch book. IMO. The technology of the Intermax is designed for Blue LEDs, and absorbtion of a specific spectrum of light that is not congruent to everyday LED flashlights. Unless you match the Intrmax filter with an approriate light source, it will not have enough useable brightness in the spectrum with which it was designed operate. I am not surprised with your results, and Thank You for sharing them with us.
GL

[och]

I would stick to the swatch book. IMO. The technology of the Intermax is designed for Blue LEDs, and absorbtion of a specific spectrum of light that is not congruent to everyday LED flashlights. Unless you match the Intrmax filter with an approriate light source, it will not have enough useable brightness in the spectrum with which it was designed operate. I am not surprised with your results, and Thank You for sharing them with us.
GL

I tried it even with blue LEDs, and it seems that they just absorb most of the brightness.

[Got Lumens?]

I tried it even with blue LEDs, and it seems that they just absorb most of the brightness.

OK, they do not work well with what you have tried. The Intermax company maybe selling products that do not work with consumer LEDs, I donno. Your results suggest they are. I am just saying that many here have had good results with the swatch books, and you should give them a try before giving up on changing tint using filters . Everyones test and inputs add value to this thread, Thanks.
GL

[saabluster]

These intematix filters are garbage IMO. I bought one to try it out, and it works as far as changing color goes, but it also obscures most of the light - judging just by looks alone about 70% of light is lost.

As I said before these are not filters. I guess I assumed everyone would understand what these were when I posted about them but it seems to have confused more than one person here so sorry if I wasn't clear enough. These are not designed to pair with white LEDs. They work best with royal blue LEDs. And they are most certainly not junk. They work fabulously for certain applications.

[Derek Dean]

saabluster, your explanation was very clear. I think it's mostly that it's a new technology (at least to us) and it will take a while before folks stop referring to it as "filters", especially when it's being discussed in a thread about filters.

Of course I'm the one who brought it up, mistakenly thinking they were just filters, so again, I appreciate your efforts to give us the correct information.

On another note, I just recently received my newly modded NovaTac 120P. I was lucky enough to get one of the Nichia 219 HICRI LEDs (CRI of 92) with the 4500k rating, and I'm in the process of evaluating that in comparison to my filtered lights.

As soon as I get a chance, I'll take some photos of the color chart (and other things) and post the results here. I can only say at this point that the initial results are "interesting".

Stay tuned to see if a state of the art HiCRI LED is any match for the Lee Filter Swatch Book .

[Diablo_331]

Tuned in for the results!

[Derek Dean]

Ok, so I got my NovaTac 120P modded with one of the new Nichia NVSL 219 (CRI of 92) LEDs with a color temp. of 4500k. I actually liked the original SSC P4 LED, but thought it was important to compare a state of the art HiCRI LED with some filtered lights that have tints that make me very happy.

I used my filtered Fenix LD01 and filtered Jetbeam BK135a to compare with my unfiltered, newly modded HiCRI NovaTac. Both the Fenix and Jetbeam were at full power, while I tried to match the NovaTac to their power level and output, so around 65-80 lumens. My Canon G10 was locked in manual mode with DAYLIGHT white balance:







So, they look pretty close to my eye, with the Nichia 219 HiCRI LED being just a bit warmer.

It's important to note that the Nichia 219 becomes whiter as I apply more power. This seems to be common with current controlled lights like the NovaTac. It's also one of the reasons I have recommended in this thread for folks to check their filters at lower levels before settling on a particular filter. For instance, I tend to use my lights on the lower levels more than the higher levels, so I always pick my filters while on those levels.

So, what did I learn from this exercise? Well, this new Nichia 219 is a very fine LED, and I think most folks will find it to be an excellent performer, however, it's still a bit warm for my taste (I'm exceedingly picky), so I've already added a -3/8 green filter.

Bottom line........ tint is a highly personal and subjective thing, and for those of us who have not only found that we like a particular tint, but also enjoy the convenience of using filters to quickly and easily achieve that result in any new light we get, I still think the Lee Filter Swatch Book is the least expensive, easiest, and best way to get that tint.

[Got Lumens?]

Very nice photos
I like the Nicha, followed by the Fenix, then the Jetbeam.
A very good comment on picking filters.
Will you post a comparison of the nichia filtered?
GL

[Derek Dean]

Got Lumens? I've got a feeling a lot of people will like the unfiltered Nichia 219 better than any of my filtered lights. It's actually a very nice tint, and it really does make the reds "pop".

Of course, those same folks could get pretty much the same tint using filters , and there wouldn't be any question about what the tint was going to be..... no tint lottery, as they would get to pick their tint in "real time". But, some folks enjoy modding and the thrill of the hunt looking for that "perfect" LED, so that's fine too.

If you scroll down this page a bit you'll see a comparison I posted between the unfiltered and filtered Nichia 219:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...eamshots/page2

There really is no right or wrong. Some folks will prefer a warmer tint, some will prefer a cooler tint, and some won't care one way or the other. This was something I did just so I would have some experience with a good HiCRI LED, but now that I've done it I think the only reason I would change an LED would be to get one that is brighter and more efficient, and I would plan on filtering it to get the tint I wanted.

[lightknot]

The Lee Filter swatch books are a lot of fun and the included diffusion filters are quite useful. Saabluster, thanks for the tip on the Chromalit phosphorus filters.

[orbital]

+

Been testing ROSCOLUX filters and the results have blown my socks off!!
{{sunset tints at the ready}}

....it you haven't picked up tint filters yet,
do yourself this favor & get some ordered up tonight.

One thing to mention, the beams diffuse slightly, verrrry slightly.

nevertheless, good fun & great results.



^ my CL1H V2 with new kicks

[H-Man]

I think this thread is still useful. Anyone recon that a rebel emitter with a nasty green tint can be tinted to something more balanced?

[Cataract]

Good bump. I used my IFE2 last summer to scare a black bear away. I tried to get the closest color rendition I could get when compared to high CRI led's, so I have a very agressive filter on it, which probably reduces the output by about 30%. Despite the reduced output, my IFE2 did the job very nicely. It actually made the other guy's car headlights look like they were almost off. Unfortunately, black bears are black as night, so I can't really speak of good fur color rendition but the leaves and trees did look good.

[Derek Dean]

Howdy everybody,
I haven't been able to reply to this thread for a while because my old computer was SO old that after the last CPF update I couldn't post anymore. Well, my new computer is on-line, so I'm happy to be back on CPF, and I'm gratified that so many folks are having fun using filters to modify the tints of their lights.

I will admit, I've grown very fond of my Hi CRI modified NovaTac 120P, and the color reproduction I get with it can't quite be matched by my other filtered lights, but I still think filtering has a place in the toolkit of any serious flashlight enthusiast. I've recently filtered both my bicycle light (an old Fenix L2D) and an LED modified Maglite. Both now have wonderfully tinted beams, and all for only a few minutes of my time selecting and cutting a few filters.

In any case, it's good to be back, and I'll look forward to reading more reports of filtering success.

[lesliemorris85]

I recently acquired some recessed LED bulbs like this http://www.illustralighting.com/4-recessed-led-1.html for my work area where I do a bit of painting as a hobby. They’re warm whites at 3000K and 83CRI, but I noticed that sometimes the color of my pigments seem off (a bit cool) as compared to when I paint during the day. Can filters solve this or do I just need to get LEDs with higher CRI/warmer WB? TIA!

[Derek Dean]

Howdy Leslie, and welcome to CPF,
Hmmmm........ 3000k is more toward the tungsten side (red-yellow biased) and 83 CRI is just average for color rendering. What you need are some daylight LEDs (5000k) with a CRI of 90 or better. Of course everybody has a different idea of "ideal" or "daylight", so some experimentation is generally in order. Some folks prefer an LED in the 4500k range....... but definitely go for a higher CRI, like 93. It really does make a difference.

Yes, you could try filters. I've got a filter on EVERY LED light I own, because I'm picky about the tint....... but I have to admit that the one light I have with a Nichia 92 CRI (4500k) LED puts out absolutely gorgeous light, and it renders colors beautifully. However, the filters only cost about $5-7 shipped, so it might be worth it just for fun.

Another thought, you might call one of your local art stores and see what they recommend. There might be an inexpensive balaneced florescent tube that will work for your situation.

Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

[lesliemorris85]

Howdy Leslie, and welcome to CPF,
Hmmmm........ 3000k is more toward the tungsten side (red-yellow biased) and 83 CRI is just average for color rendering. What you need are some daylight LEDs (5000k) with a CRI of 90 or better. Of course everybody has a different idea of "ideal" or "daylight", so some experimentation is generally in order. Some folks prefer an LED in the 4500k range....... but definitely go for a higher CRI, like 93. It really does make a difference.
Yes, you could try filters. I've got a filter on EVERY LED light I own, because I'm picky about the tint....... but I have to admit that the one light I have with a Nichia 92 CRI (4500k) LED puts out absolutely gorgeous light, and it renders colors beautifully. However, the filters only cost about $5-7 shipped, so it might be worth it just for fun.
Another thought, you might call one of your local art stores and see what they recommend. There might be an inexpensive balaneced florescent tube that will work for your situation.
Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

Hello Derek, and thanks for your reply.
I talked to a photographer friend of mine and he basically said the same thing you said –near daylight Kelvin and at least a 90 CRI. I guess that rules out filters then.
But while looking at some of those Lee filters I think I might try experimenting with them on some of my specialty lights that I use to light up art pieces (mostly wood carvings) at home. Maybe adding tints could have a more dramatic overall effect.

[Cataract]

Hello Derek, and thanks for your reply.
I talked to a photographer friend of mine and he basically said the same thing you said –near daylight Kelvin and at least a 90 CRI. I guess that rules out filters then.
But while looking at some of those Lee filters I think I might try experimenting with them on some of my specialty lights that I use to light up art pieces (mostly wood carvings) at home. Maybe adding tints could have a more dramatic overall effect.

I have 2 lights on which I added a filter (L0D and IFE2) Both really impressed the other local flashaholics at the last meet. That said, it is definitely not the best for painting something that will be exposed in a more natural light, but excellent for getting good overall color rendition in most cases. I can tell the yellows and greens on my father's paintings are different when I use those, but they're impressively close.

I also wanted to suggest something (if you're into it): a painting on which the image looks different when using a different light color, maybe even hidden images.

[lesliemorris85]

I have 2 lights on which I added a filter (L0D and IFE2) Both really impressed the other local flashaholics at the last meet. That said, it is definitely not the best for painting something that will be exposed in a more natural light, but excellent for getting good overall color rendition in most cases. I can tell the yellows and greens on my father's paintings are different when I use those, but they're impressively close.
I also wanted to suggest something (if you're into it): a painting on which the image looks different when using a different light color, maybe even hidden images.

I think you’re right, putting filters conventional LED lights just might render art pieces differently and enhance the artsy look. I’ll definitely experiment on this at home.
As for you suggestion, sounds interesting. I’ll discuss that with my kids since they’re the painters, lol

[riccardo]

Did a anybody try to correct a TM26?