The Fenix HP11 - a Review in Four Parts

[subwoofer]

Cyamn down, cyamn down..... (mock Liverpudlian accent - might not make sense to US based CPFers)

Anyway, I think that we have to stop the 'discussion' at this point.

My comments would be that if your requirements are small, light-weight and single cell (but limited output and runtime) then Zebralight are excellent, if you need higher output for longer periods and the runtime only a multi-cell light can give, then headlights like the HP11 are excellent.

Beacon_of_light - you won't win the argument that zebralight is the answer to everyone's needs - it isn't.

[robostudent5000]

Cyamn down, cyamn down..... (mock Liverpudlian accent - might not make sense to US based CPFers)

calming down.

[degarb]

If you have followed cpf, there is a HUGE following for zebralight. However, they may work for diffuse workers like electrical, but not for other tasks.

I have come to realize, differing formats of lights serve different needs in one's life. Cheap single AA 4 lumen led headlamps at Home Depot are great for bedside and kids. Single high power AA's are great for pocket. 4 AA (HP11) are great for everyday work. While on huge jobs, external packs work best (easier to charge but lack daily portability ease.) Wrist lights are better than headlamps at patching, and useful for throw and peripheral vision to avoid tripping. I haven't found a use yet for a flashlight yet, but this is just me--I won't be jumping into a flashlight review extolling virtues of the headlamp over a flashlight.

[Yes, you need LOTS of throw for painting and dry walling. Google lighting in profile to see texture. Painting, seeing dust at 12-25 foot distance is very important. When rolling, throw is very important. Painters often get beatup for 1/2 grain of rice skips. Importantly: Throw = runtime, provided you can dial down. If, with a thrower, you can dial down to 50 milliamps and see detail, then you got a more useful light. I hate to say it, but you almost need a lux per watt rating on the lights.]

[uk_caver]

Cyamn down, cyamn down..... (mock Liverpudlian accent - might not make sense to US based CPFers)

I can see the shellsuit and curly hair as clear as day.

My comments would be that if your requirements are small, light-weight and single cell (but limited output and runtime) then Zebralight are excellent, if you need higher output for longer periods and the runtime only a multi-cell light can give, then headlights like the HP11 are excellent.

I'd second that.
One of my headlights is a Zebralight. (and I don't mean that in a 'one of my friends is...' kind of way).
Every light has its place, but my favourite and most-used light is my largest one (roughly Petzl Zoom size, and a touch heavier), and my next-most-used one is a 3xAA with back-mounted battery box.

The favourite isn't light, but I can find it with closed eyes even in a disordered tent or stuffed inside a bag, put it on with one hand, use it for reading in a tent /or/ seeing things far away, I get ages between battery changes, and it shares power options with my caving lamp. Which is nice.

Excellent review - if I didn't have the niche already covered sufficiently for my needs, I'd certainly be considering a HP11.

[degarb]

[QUOTE=uk_caver;3737715
Excellent review - if I didn't have the niche already covered sufficiently for my needs, I'd certainly be considering a HP11.[/QUOTE]

Got my hp11 ordered and in the air. I finally felt I hadn't upgraded recently enough. I did just make a xpe r2 fl into a hl. I will need to see lux at 133 to determine if it is suitable for me.

I really would like to see a xml u3 bin, with some throw (possibly dedomed). But I am guessing 3 years will pass before this is offered.

[uk_caver]

I really would like to see a xml u3 bin, with some throw (possibly dedomed). But I am guessing 3 years will pass before this is offered.

I wish Cree made an XM-L equivalent, but with a separately addressable inner core. It'd be great to have a headtorch with an electrically-controlled zoom for the spot beam, so you could light distant objects with a narrow beam, saving a lot of power/heat for a given intensity of illumination, but have a wide beam for closer work like trail following where less intensity would often be needed, without the complication and bulk of multiple LEDs/optics or mechanical zooming.
Though without a expected market of countless millions of devices, I guess that won't be likely to happen.

[degarb]

Fenix Headlamp Hp-11 review (r5) [One week ownership/ as a work hight detail light]

1. Most useful light ever made, in my book! (Good throw means even 55 lumen (24 hour) level rivals 100 lumen lights--making me rethink my confidence in other light makers' claims for lumens.
2. This light is a true revolution over 80-100 lumen lights. Makes the Remington 150 lumen lights look like penlight, even at equivalent drive levels.
3. The HP11 has the most useful, outstanding drive/runtime levels: reading (206h at 4 lumen); arm length detail work (24h at 55 lumen level) that outshines most 80 to 100 lumen level (again, rethink my confidence in other manufactures); 6 foot detail level of 130 lumens which is very bright (9 hour range) , and extreme thrower 277 lumen to impress the skeptics.
4. My Hp 11 came with a removable diffuser.
5. Incredible out the front lumens. Apparently, the HP11 achieves little lose, as compared with other lights, by using a smooth reflector and low reflection glass lens.
6. Pretty neutral (Way warmer than Remington). (Great smooth reflector, nice hotspot and spill.)

Other notes:
1. The 2011 Coleman Max 144 xp-e (r2?) is a tad warmer.
2. Perceptually, the 144 Coleman Max is near the perceived 133 HP11 output, by driving the Coleman at 320 milli-amps (An R2 should be a tad more luxy, so this makes sense). So, the hp11 doesn't totally trump the R2 144 Coleman (Provided the Coleman is modified with hacksaw/new power supply and variable resistor), but it does have better runtime, more consistent light, larger hot spot, better reflector, better efficiency.
3. By the inherent HP11 battery pack design, it will be easy to build 2 dummy batteries with attached wires, for my tool belt 6 volt 4.5 amp hour AGM batteries on large jobs.


Cons:
1. Didn't ship with tracking! (20 days to reach me from Canada.)
2. Diffuser looks like it will break early, if used on a job site on first knock of head on something low [plank/bush]. But, this diffuser should protect the glass lens in book bag with other stuff.
3. Center strap is too short!!!! Most users will not realize this, and consider the HP11 uncomfortable. :-( This is easy to modify with some Walmart elastic, scissors and thread. Or Just use strap from another light. Lengthen the center strap, and it becomes nearly as comfortable/balances as the Remington (tad heavier.) or any 3 aaa hl.
4. The driver did crash two of the 4 AA cells after my first 1.5 hours of use. So, as very first my light with a fully regulated 4 cell driver, I am still evaluating to see how picky it will be on cell. {I have returned 2 AA [brick and mortar] lights where every 15 minutes I needed to change cells, since the driver was so picky.}

Conclusion:

Between the HP11 driver, the superior 4aa format (good comfort, superior power, attainable AA), and an xpg with efficiency that is fast approaching the magic number 150 lumen/watt, it appears the HP11 is clearly a big upgrade of my 3-4 cell 80-105 lumen lights. No more can a customer or worker brush off the lights as marginally useful, since the brightness now has a wow factor, with long run time in a convenient, comfortable form factor. I need three more HP11s, asap! But, just read about my dream emitter; the S2 xpg which reaches the my dream of 150 lumen/watt. So, I might wait for the s2+ bin, to more clearly surpass the 150 lumen/watt water mark. I realize the eye won't notice the difference, but every bit helps, and it is a matter of principle. And, after all this light proves that every bit does add up.

[subwoofer]

Cons:
3. Center strap is too short!!!! Most users will not realize this, and consider the HP11 uncomfortable. :-( This is easy to modify with some Walmart elastic, scissors and thread. Or Just use strap from another light. Lengthen the center strap, and it becomes nearly as comfortable/balances as the Remington (tad heavier.) or any 3 aaa hl.
4. The driver did crash two of the 4 AA cells after my first 1.5 hours of use. So, as very first my light with a fully regulated 4 cell driver, I am still evaluating to see how picky it will be on cell. {I have returned 2 AA [brick and mortar] lights where every 15 minutes I needed to change cells, since the driver was so picky.}

It is a pity you didn't read the section in my review (post 1) called 'Putting it together'. Here I mention the top strap and the fact that all you need to do is reconfigure it. This entails simply slipping the strap through the angled slot in the plastic buckle and reattaching it in a different position and voilà the top strap is perfect without any extra elastic, sewing etc required. After doing this the top strap looks exactly as it does in the photo of the instructions.

As for your other con about the 'The driver did crash two of the 4 AA cells after my first 1.5 hours of use', what exactly do you mean about this. How could the batteries crash?

In my tests I used Eneloops, and ran it and ran it and ran it until the output was less than the low setting for at least 6 hours (as in 6 hours from when the output had dropped to a very low level) to see if the driver would cut off, but thankfully (so as not to be plunged into darkness) it just kept going with diminishing output. The Eneloops given a bit of recovery time actually managed a blast of turbo before dropping again. I got bored of abusing the eneloops which were fine and took a full charge immediately afterwards.

When using multi cell lights I always used matched sets which were charged at the same time and have had no problems at all with this light.

[degarb]

My center strap looks different than yours. I also after reading your sentence on center strap a dozen times, still have no idea what you are describing. Need a video or slide show, I guess.

What I mean crash, is I put 4 freshly charged batteries in: two eneloops and two 2300s. After two hours the 2300s were dead, while the eneloops continued. In the real world, with 100 batteries and 8 plus lamps running, matching batteries is not practical. etc. So, the fact you have had no problems with pickiness of cells, I find reassuring. (I still have only gone a max of 5 hours before topping off batteries.)

[GulfCoastToad]

Wow, great review. I didn't think I needed another headlamp until I read through your posts. Now I might have changed my mind. My current adventure light is a Princeton Tec Apex. It sounds like the Fenix HP11 will make my PT pee its pants.

[DisrupTer911]

Def think I'm gonna have to pick this up before my camping trip

[degarb]

Just bought three more. Got a little price break.. So much for waiting for the s2 bin. I figured, I pay now or if I wait for the xpg U2 bin, in other ways.

[subwoofer]

Just bought three more. Got a little price break.. So much for waiting for the s2 bin. I figured, I pay now or if I wait for the xpg U2 bin, in other ways.

Before you alter your top strap, post a photo of it and I'll try to explain what I did. It shouldn't need to be altered, only change the position of the buckles.

[degarb]

Before you alter your top strap, post a photo of it and I'll try to explain what I did. It shouldn't need to be altered, only change the position of the buckles.

Not sure if same as yours, but I reconfigured to make one long strap of elastic with two loops on end, looping each end back onto self. I also added reflective tape to back and sides of battery case since I was missing the Remington rear led, which is good for late night walks with family on the streets.

My three lights came in three days by priority mail, shipped from the NY warehouse. There is a lottery on color. (I hoped Cree has quashed this lottery in last 3 years, but apparently not.) None were horribly cold, but none were as warm as the first, only one close.

This is my first 4 aa regulated light. I have read reviews of the dx regulated lights (none with very good or useful runtimes), so the tail current reading should not have shocked me. I found the lower the voltage/more tired the cells the higher the current draw. This is especially true on the turbo setting, with as high as one amp for the 277 rating. I guess I expected a constant current over runtime, by simply lowering resistance. So tail cap reading will vary by voltage, but my first NiMH off charger were: 8ma, 99 ma, 266 ma, 777 ma. Fresh alkaline, a bit lower, especially on turbo.

[subwoofer]

Not sure if same as yours, but I reconfigured to make one long strap of elastic with two loops on end, looping each end back onto self. I also added reflective tape to back and sides of battery case since I was missing the Remington rear led, which is good for late night walks with family on the streets.

My three lights came in three days by priority mail, shipped from the NY warehouse. There is a lottery on color. (I hoped Cree has quashed this lottery in last 3 years, but apparently not.) None were horribly cold, but none were as warm as the first, only one close.

This is my first 4 aa regulated light. I have read reviews of the dx regulated lights (none with very good or useful runtimes), so the tail current reading should not have shocked me. I found the lower the voltage/more tired the cells the higher the current draw. This is especially true on the turbo setting, with as high as one amp for the 277 rating. I guess I expected a constant current over runtime, by simply lowering resistance. So tail cap reading will vary by voltage, but my first NiMH off charger were: 8ma, 99 ma, 266 ma, 777 ma. Fresh alkaline, a bit lower, especially on turbo.

As far as the top strap goes, that sounds about right.

Your observation of the current draw is also accurate, on the basis that a regulated light is trying to output the same level regardless of the battery state. The driver will call upon the batteries to deliver the same power, and as you point out, as the batteries are used, their voltage drops. In order to achieve the same power output, with a lower voltage, the current must increase as Power = Voltage x Current.

The driver will draw power from the batteries up to the point they can no longer deliver the power level demanded, and then drop to the next regulated output.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the current that is regulated is the output current (and voltage) which is driving the LED, not the power supply current.

[uk_caver]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the current that is regulated is the output current (and voltage) which is driving the LED, not the power supply current.

That's right - the LED current is what a regulated driver will try to keep constant.

[DisrupTer911]

Just got mine and man what a thrower.
on medium, high, and turbo it's got amazing throw when pointed straight out.

when aimed down, medium and high provide excellent flooded area as well for walking.
love it!
hate the headband that it doesn't have firmly holding plastic pieces and i need another cable clip lol

[degarb]

Small Velcro cord wraps work well (soft side out) as clips (twist tie, duct tape). I believe the cord has extra play by design. I know, from years of Walkman use, that too little play on a cord turn will break the wires quicker. I agree that the old telephone cord coil design that the Remington incorporated, would seem to be the best.

I bet the zebralight h600 will have 1/4th the lux of the hp11 at the comparable 7 hr runtime (a useful work day runtime). But I wonder if it would be practical or benificial to do the obvious: it would be cool to mount the zebra h600 to side of HP 11 for the view. Probably just kill the night vision with little benefit, but maybe not.

[Therrin]

I have to admit to not having read this entire thread, after I got about 5 posts in I realized the same issue that had existed with the HP10 and HP20 diffusers.

Frankly, that they suck, and that just by selling them you have to wonder exactly what Fenix was thinking.

That having been said, I found an excellent substitution. An excellent and very expensive substitution.





Though, as mentioned in another thread, my first HP20 developed a wiring issue and had to be returned. My second HP20 also developed a wiring issue, and was immediately dismantled because I didn't care to wait for the 4 month turnaround time again. I'll be constructing a custom battery pack for it which will be back-of-helmet-mounted and should allay the problem.
The HP20 should never have left the design table with the weight of the battery pack, and the flimsy wire attaching to it. Even when run inside clothing, that wire will get caught on everything (besides that then you have to operate the controller through the clothing), and eventually it will break from strain inside the battery pack and stop working correctly.

I'm interested in trying the HP11.

(my HP10 has just been ticking right along in the meantime with no issues, 16 months later)

[degarb]

Therrin, not enough info to reproduce your diffuser.

I found if I go to "walmrt's" pharmacy and buy their empty contact lens case with translucent caps, I can hot-glue/amazing-goop the edges a cap to elastic ($1, in fabric department) then tightly glued to the head the lights. When not in use, just flip the diffuser off to the side. This design seems to work very well on one of my lights; the contact lens case cap diameter seems to be perfect for most lights; and would work on hp11 in a pinch. I figure if this hp11 diffuser breaks off, I can reattach with this method, with added benefit of no elastic touching metal bezel. (Stock diffuser slightly insulates the warm metal, though only a potential problem with turbo mode.)

Other considerations for my diffuser recipe: often hard plastic glues best if primed-softened with super glue with amazing goop on top; if using a cap lid, use hollow side toward lens to avoid scratching lens.

[Therrin]

Therrin, not enough info to reproduce your diffuser.

My bad! It's made by SureFire. It costs about $65.

I got so tired of having the factory diffuser either fall open or spill light into my eyes, playing with magic markers and/or electrical tape, I finally just bought the expensive Surefire diffuser and have been absolutely happy with it.
I realize most will find that not to be an ideal solution; it depends on your application and your pocketbook.

[eart]

$65 diffuser? That's harsh... especially if you're looking at HP11, which is there abouts in terms of cost.

[degarb]

I am still trying to get a handle on the best brand of batteries to use in this light. For my use, I require 8 to 10 hours of 133 lumen out put on one set of cells. So eneloop amateurs don't meet my specs. What I am finding though that since the regulator ups the current as voltage drops, I am not getting anything near the specified runtime (about 6.25 hours on sanyo 2700s with four cycles at the 133 lumen output), and packs are going out of regulation at 1.2 volts per cell with older cells crapping out around 2.8 hours at 133 lumens.

I cannot complain since when the hp11 looses the 133 level, it just goes to the 50 lumen level for next xx hours. Fortunately, the unit throws great and has great out the front efficiency, so at the 50 lumen level rivals many lights at 80 to 100 lumens, and a worker still has plenty of light on the battery sipping medium for next few hours for extreme detail work up to 6 foot away.

I am wondering if I am not breaking in my 2700s properly by just hitting condition on the maha c204w. The hp11 target runtimes are perfect, and even when falling short (I prefer the 133 lumen level for 8 to 10 hours) the unit is still bright at the 50 lumen level. So, I can't complain. My eneloop xx batteries are in the mail. I am also pondering value of the Tenergy 2600s (worried they will be as crappy as kodak or the energizer 2500s and 2450s.) the accuevolution 2200 lsds. If none of the battery brands meet my specs, I may just go 1500 cycle eneloops and demand a 5 hour battery swap and buy more charging bays--which will cost over time and frustration.

[subwoofer]

I am still trying to get a handle on the best brand of batteries to use in this light. For my use, I require 8 to 10 hours of 133 lumen out put on one set of cells. So eneloop amateurs don't meet my specs. What I am finding though that since the regulator ups the current as voltage drops, I am not getting anything near the specified runtime (about 6.25 hours on sanyo 2700s with four cycles at the 133 lumen output), and packs are going out of regulation at 1.2 volts per cell with older cells crapping out around 2.8 hours at 133 lumens.

I cannot complain since when the hp11 looses the 133 level, it just goes to the 50 lumen level for next xx hours. Fortunately, the unit throws great and has great out the front efficiency, so at the 50 lumen level rivals many lights at 80 to 100 lumens, and a worker still has plenty of light on the battery sipping medium for next few hours for extreme detail work up to 6 foot away.

I am wondering if I am not breaking in my 2700s properly by just hitting condition on the maha c204w. The hp11 target runtimes are perfect, and even when falling short (I prefer the 133 lumen level for 8 to 10 hours) the unit is still bright at the 50 lumen level. So, I can't complain. My eneloop xx batteries are in the mail. I am also pondering value of the Tenergy 2600s (worried they will be as crappy as kodak or the energizer 2500s and 2450s.) the accuevolution 2200 lsds. If none of the battery brands meet my specs, I may just go 1500 cycle eneloops and demand a 5 hour battery swap and buy more charging bays--which will cost over time and frustration.

Not sure if it was mentioned already in this thread or if it was in another Fenix light thread, but before you go any further quoting Fenix's stated runtimes, be aware that these are ANSI standard runtimes. This means that the quoted runtime goes on until the light output drops to 10% YES 10% of the starting output. If Fenix state 6hrs at the 133lm output level, this means that at 6hrs, the output will be 13.3lm, not 133lm.

There is currently no standard that indicates the runtime at any particular regulated output level.

You need to understand this clearly as you will never achieve runtimes that maintain the listed output level for the entire time stated.

[degarb]

Not sure if it was mentioned already in this thread or if it was in another Fenix light thread, but before you go any further quoting Fenix's stated runtimes, be aware that these are ANSI standard runtimes. This means that the quoted runtime goes on until the light output drops to 10% YES 10% of the starting output. If Fenix state 6hrs at the 133lm output level, this means that at 6hrs, the output will be 13.3lm, not 133lm.

There is currently no standard that indicates the runtime at any particular regulated output level.

You need to understand this clearly as you will never achieve runtimes that maintain the listed output level for the entire time stated.

Fortunately, Fenix here has a much better correlation to stated runtime and actual than just some vague 10%: I am probably will be getting-once batteries are broken in- close to 7 hours of 133 lumens before it only puts out 50 lumens. Why wouldn't they just spec something like, 7 hours (with 2500's) regulated to 133 lumens then 3 hours unregulated?

[subwoofer]

Fortunately, Fenix here has a much better correlation to stated runtime and actual than just some vague 10%: I am probably will be getting-once batteries are broken in- close to 7 hours of 133 lumens before it only puts out 50 lumens. Why wouldn't they just spec something like, 7 hours (with 2500's) regulated to 133 lumens then 3 hours unregulated?

'Fenix here'?

Fenix is Fenix and their products state ANSI runtimes (you can google this). ANSI runtimes are quite clear and 10% is not a vague cut-off point, but is the one decided on by the group of companies which set up the ANSI standard.

Roughly it involves measuring the starting output 10s after turning the light on to allow the output to stabilise and then timing it until the output falls to exactly 10% of the starting output.

All Fenix lights state the same runtimes, and all runtimes quoted are ANSI.

Good luck with getting 100% output for the same time as the ANSI runtime quoted. If you have some uber-special batteries you might just manage it. Fenix generally use the largest capacity fully charged batteries they can for the ANSI tests. Each product information page on Fenix's website usually mentions what capacity batteries were used for the ANSI test.

[Therrin]

I'm in the middle of modding my HP20 with a custom battery pack I'm building.

If you have specific needs which do not fit within the norms currently available with a headlamp product, I suggest you start building your own battery packs to attain the runtime that you require. =)


Subwoofer: Yes, it's pretty damn expensive for a diffuser. But when you consider the absolute crap-quality of the current Fenix diffusers, you only have so many options. One is to rubber-band a piece of waxed paper across the front. That would be sufficiently cheap.

I like the Surefire diffuser because it fits on 3 of my lights, and it's bomb-proof. The diffusion lens stows neatly out of the way when you don't need it, and is very simple to click into place when you want it. The activities I do involve being underground for large periods of time. I enjoy the ease of using the diffuser, but when I'm 765' down a hole, the last thing I want to be worrying about is my diffuser on my light. So for me it's worth it.

If Fenix could manage to put out a slip-on diffuser that didn't totally suck, it'd be the best of both worlds, but for some reason they haven't quite figured that out yet.

I think I'll pick up an HP11 and see how I like it.

[degarb]

With the hp11, one could easily make two dummy batteries connected to positive and negative. The easiest cheapest external battery is a 6 dollar 6v 4.5 amp-hour agm from batteriesasap.com or the like. You would need to be sure not to accidentally reverse connect.

My last night runtime test of the hp 11 was about 8 to 8.5 hours on the 133 lumen setting with Sanyo 2700's. (After this, still at bright 50 lumen setting, when I didn't continue to see how long this setting would last.) About 6th cycle of these cells, this time topping off with Titanium smart charger, checking each cell voltage individually. For us, 8 hours works, not 6 hours. I also removed the diffuser to optimal heat dissipation this time.

[waddup]

id only ever use a diffuser on close- closer work, on a much lower level, trying to beam 150 lumens thru anything without that 'thing' lighting up is a little optimistic,

'turbo mode' is for long range = no diffuser.

imo.

[peterharvey73]

Has anyone noticed how the HP11 on 4x Eneloops, the brightness falls as the battery capacity diminishes?
Thus, eventually only the first three levels of brightness work; then with further use, only the first two levels of brightness works.
It behaves like a conventional LED flashlight powered by disposable CR123's?
This is different to conventional LED flashlights powered by rechargeable protected 16340's and 18650's where the brightness is at maximum the whole time, until the very end when the battery is flat and cuts out with no warning at all???
Thus the Eneloop chemistry is similar to disposable primary CR123 chemistry and performance?
I wish the HP11 stayed at maximum brightness the whole time - until it gets flat...