500 Lumen - AAA Flashlight (photos) - Work In Progress

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Undoubtedly the first AAA to use XM-L, it's ambitious but very nice. LED to be mounted on a solid head helps thermal dissipation somewhat, but the question is how long will it maintain 500lms before it auto steps down. I wouldn't mind if it's just a little thicker to help with the heat if it makes any difference at all. Tightened for off is a fantastic feature, IMO, something which more twisties should do. A trivial suggestion for the clip if you would consider, oxidize or coat it in black. I can't stand those shiny steel or chromed ones on a nice, black HA light anymore, but others may differ. And LOP, OP or SMO for reflector?

Looking forward to its completion!

Thanks for the feedback.
Still finalizing the clip design, will keep you posted.

At this size, not sure another mm or 2 will help much with heat and if it gets beyond 15mm, then we are at CR2 size.

I was hoping for a custom TIR lens but it's extremely expensive to cast from scratch.
Will be going with Aluminuim reflector, for now likely OP, but possibly something like the reflector in the Olight T10.
We need to test the beam pattern, though with a small reflector, it will be floody so not sure there is too much merit in an SMO reflector.

tgwnn

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Any crazy single AA light in your cooking pot?

Not just yet.
If (& after) I earn my stripes on this mission, I might consider making one.

[Death's Head]

Different materials like Ti would be nice.

[easilyled]

Is it even possible to squeeze 1.5 - 1.6A out of an AAA sized battery or smaller? (this is the current required for 500 lumens from an XM-L)

I was under the impression that the voltage of such small batteries would sag almost immediately and therefore fail to deliver this type of current for more than a few seconds.

Additionally an unprotected li-ion, which I believe these sized cells are, would surely be prone to discharging below the level required to sustain them for more than a handful of cycles if such high current demand is imposed of them?


Sorry if I sound negative. I'll be only too happy if you're easily able to quosh my cynicism.

[tre]

Is it even possible to squeeze 1.5 - 1.6A out of an AAA sized battery or smaller? (this is the current required for 500 lumens from an XM-L)

I was under the impression that the voltage of such small batteries would sag almost immediately and therefore fail to deliver this type of current for more than a few seconds.

Additionally an unprotected li-ion, which I believe these sized cells are, would surely be prone to discharging below the level required to sustain them for more than a handful of cycles if such high current demand is imposed of them?


Sorry if I sound negative. I'll be only too happy if you're easily able to quosh my cynicism.

I'm wondering the same thing. I'm thinking 500 lumens would require an IMR cell but do they make IMR cells in that size? My thinking is that 500 OTF lumens would require much more than a 2C discharge.

[romteb]

You need much more than 1.5 A from an AAA to get 500 lumens OTF, much more than double that in fact, the vf of the led being at least twice the 1.5V of the alcaline, and said alcaline sagging like crazy therefore far from 1.5V output.

[Rikr]

Put me down for one. Sounds great.

[jorn]

Thanks for the feedback.
The hole is designed at an angle so that a split ring should be able to be positioned between the fins. Adding a hole in the fin is a good work around too.
If you use a strap (the kind used for attaching trinkets to mobile phones) or even a metal type, it will sit just fine, and not get in the way when tail standing.

It's the lobsterclaw on many lanyard's, or the big keychain spilt ring itself that I suspect may make tailstanding difficult when its attached to the small ring. I rarely tailstand my keychain aaa's, so it's no dealbreaker for me. But I like to be able to do a stable tailstand even if its on my bulky keychain. It's hard to please all, but the simple extra hole in a fin might please some extra customers


Bought a neutral T4 E5 4000k at cutters, and stuffed it in my mini-x. Now I just love that little thing.
Would be cool with a similar tinted xm-l.
Don't mind some few lost lumens for better tint, and i bet im not the only one wanting a neutral tinted xm-l aaa flamethrower

[calipsoii]

Agreed with the other posters: I don't see how it's possible to get that kind of current out of an alkaline 1.5V cell. That far far FAR exceeds rated specifications, if it's even possible to do it at all. I'd suggest just eliminating the 500lm mode when an alkaline is used, similiar to how the Xeno E03 won't run full blast unless it's on a lithium.

[JacobJones]

Looks good, it's very different to my design. Must be fiddly and time consuming to make the drivers for it, I wish I was skillfull enough to make my own. I look forward to seeing the finished product

[notrefined]

I suspect a free-machining copper (or better grade) version would be popular

[jorn]

The alkaline may also start to leak with to high draw. I remember lots of old threads about pepole complaining about alkalines leaking in their new hard driven aa powerlight's, even with pretty fresh cells. High drain and normal cheap alkalines is not that good i guess.

As long as its a beast with 10440, and simply works (will produse any kind of light) with a alkaline. I would be happy with it. Buildt in protection for those 10440 would be awsome

[easilyled]

You need much more than 1.5 A from an AAA to get 500 lumens OTF, much more than double that in fact, the vf of the led being at least twice the 1.5V of the alcaline, and said alcaline sagging like crazy therefore far from 1.5V output.

Yes, I agree, but in order to output 500 lumens for a current draw of 1.5A, I meant the use of li-ions in AAA size, which even then would be very difficult.

It would certainly be impossible with alkaline AAAs.

[jabe1]

I suspect a free-machining copper (or better grade) version would be popular

Popular is an understatement...

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Looks good, it's very different to my design. Must be fiddly and time consuming to make the drivers for it, I wish I was skillfull enough to make my own. I look forward to seeing the finished product

Thanks

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Yes, I agree, but in order to output 500 lumens for a current draw of 1.5A, I meant the use of li-ions in AAA size, which even then would be very difficult.

It would certainly be impossible with alkaline AAAs.

Very difficult indeed.
Not impossible, but there are many issues:
When drawing so much current from a 1.5V cell rated at 1200mAh (even heavy duty Zinc-Manganese Dioxide),
the high discharge reduces the actual mAh to just a fraction of the actual mAh available under a more normal draw.

So even though 3A would be only 2.5C (discharge) of available mAh (not a big ask for an IMR cell) , alkalines usually work at a max of 1/3C discharge, and only deliver near their true capacity at under 1/10C (and usually less than 1/25C to get near actual capacity).

Using a boost circuit, making up for the lack of voltage requires at least 2x the current,
so a 1.5 Amp draw, is actually doubled.

At 1Amp, 3V to the led, it gets close to 400 emitter lumens, but that can not be sustained for very long.
So as everybody has suggested, yes, there are definitely limitations in using alkalines,
and 500 lumens for 3 seconds on an alkaline may not be very meaningful.


We are still testing at this stage, but taking safety and other factors into consideration,
the final version may well end up with a lower output on turbo mode using alkaline.

I'm aware of the factors and we are testing and exploring still at this stage.
This is why it's still labelled "Concept Light", so please bare with me as your input helps me to adjust the final specs.

CPF is the best place in the world to get feedback during product design, and Im grateful to everyone for all the feedback and comments,
and hope to end up with a light that you & I would want on our keychain.


tgwnn

[Hamaremon]

I would definitely be interested in one depending on the price point. Even if it was only for a few seconds, if you could achieve this kind of output from a single 1.5V AAA alkaline cell without damage to the cell itself, it would truly be an epoch-making light. I won't say it can't be done, simply because it hasn't been done (to my knowledge).

Best of luck in the final design tweaks!

[Shooter21]

wow 500 lumen aaa light, whats the runtime 5 minutes? lol

[moshow9]

the_guy_with_no_name. Definitely interested in something like this, my keychain could use a new friend . Wish you lots of luck and can't wait to see the final product.

[WadeF]

Maybe you could put some kind of capacitor in there that charges off a 1.5v alkaline and then delivers a boost of current when needed.

[RCantor]

Well you've got cajones and I can't wait to see what you come up with Good luck!

[the_guy_with_no_name]

wow 500 lumen aaa light, whats the runtime 5 minutes? lol

Will let you know after testing

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Maybe you could put some kind of capacitor in there that charges off a 1.5v alkaline and then delivers a boost of current when needed.

Thats the basic concept of a boost circuit, though slightly different. A good idea but size may be an issue.

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Well you've got cajones and I can't wait to see what you come up with Good luck!

Thanks.
Im designing the light I want to have. Im happy with Li-Ion's.
May as well support 1.5V AAA's so that it can be used by a wider audience and use standard batteries in case I ever need them.

[the_guy_with_no_name]

I would definitely be interested in one depending on the price point. Even if it was only for a few seconds, if you could achieve this kind of output from a single 1.5V AAA alkaline cell without damage to the cell itself, it would truly be an epoch-making light. I won't say it can't be done, simply because it hasn't been done (to my knowledge).

Best of luck in the final design tweaks!

Price...
Im hoping the first run can be $65 or less.
If there is enough demand (volume), I can negotiate a better price on everything for the 2nd run,
and hopefully get the price lower still.

tgwnn



@moshow
Thanks.

[Hamaremon]

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but for a custom run of lights I certainly didn't expect the price to be that low...Not that I'm complaining!

I understand it's still a rough idea at this point, and may vary depending on quantities, but now I'm even more excited than when I first read the proposed specs!

I'll be looking forward to more updates!

[hellokitty[hk]]

Do you have a rough price estimate?
Will you sell drivers only?

Why are there so many people who care about alkalines? How many people here actually use/have alkaline AAA?
IMO worrying about eneloops would be more sensible. I'd think that an eneloop AAA would be able to deliver ~4A - 4.5A and hold over 1v, for six or seven minutes.

[ico]

wow 500 lumen aaa light, whats the runtime 5 minutes? lol

may be just 15-30 seconds

[Acid87]

Really interesting light. Would love a pocket rocket like this. A real fan. Price???

[the_guy_with_no_name]

may be just 15-30 seconds

A burst at 500 lumens, probably for a maximum of 30 seconds, depending on battery type.
Total runtime at 500 lumens would likely be not more than 5-10 minutes,
but plenty of runtime on the lower modes.