500 Lumen - AAA Flashlight (photos) - Work In Progress

[BoarHunter]

500 lumens out of a single AAA, how did you validate the design ?

[the_guy_with_no_name]

500 lumens out of a single AAA, how did you validate the design ?

Thanks for asking.
The Torpedo is currently still in the R&D phase and there are many issues to work through as has been mentioned.
Please keep in mind also, as previously noted that 500 lumens will be a short burst mode and exact duration/specs are still under test.

I have shared prototype images and spec targets as some people had requested to see more and Im glad to have everyone's feedback.

For now, still finalizing the feasibility of the driver requirements at the required size.
Once the driver is tested the body design (mainly sizing) can be completed, first prototype created,
and then verification of modes and operation in the actual body.

twgnn

[mrlysle]

Well, I too, love the little guys. I've read this thread through from cover to cover and subscribed via tgwnn's link. I'm in for at least two, and don't really care what the final output is. I'd stick an L92 in it anyway probably. Love the concept and the determination to see something through like this. tgwnn, best of luck to you, and I hope someday your as well known as Surefire! Gettin' really stoked up about this little light!
P.S. and a copper or Ti would put me over the edge! I'd wanna buy stock in your company!

[stoli67]

[QUOTE=the_guy_with_no_name;3734056]Thanks stoli,
btw, whats your favorite AAA at the moment?

@Zvi
Thank you [quote]



I still love my run 1Ti LF2XT the best

After that my LD01 on lithium cell.... Rock solid and very bright.

After that in my EDC rotation I as use a Lumna Ti

I am very excited about an XML AAA light though....

Please put me down for one !

Can we order yet?

Stoli

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Well, I too, love the little guys. I've read this thread through from cover to cover and subscribed via tgwnn's link. I'm in for at least two, and don't really care what the final output is. I'd stick an L92 in it anyway probably. Love the concept and the determination to see something through like this. tgwnn, best of luck to you, and I hope someday your as well known as Surefire! Gettin' really stoked up about this little light!
P.S. and a copper or Ti would put me over the edge! I'd wanna buy stock in your company!

Thank you mrlysle! I really appreciate the kind words of support.
Actually I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished prototype myself

Once the basics are confirmed, I will definitely consider a run of either Ti or Copper as long as there is enough demand to warrant it.

tgwnn

[stoli67]

I am in for a Ti !

[the_guy_with_no_name]

I am in for a Ti !

Thanks Stoli,

The Ti LF2XT looks like a great light too.
I'd consider chopping one like my ITP but somehow I dont think I could bring myself to destroy a Ti light in that way.

tgwnn

[Hiro Protagonist]

I am in for a Ti !

+1 I'm in for a black Torpedo and probably a Ti Torpedo as well.

HP

[beerwax]

beer want torpedo beer want torpedo

[uknewbie]

Even if the 500 lumen mode was for 30 seconds, I still think it is a nice feature to have in a tiny light. That said, the keep loosening for higher modes could be great if done properly.

Lots of potential this light, but like you say, still theory just now. I think heat is the major problem here. I have 200 lumen AAA lights that can scold you within a minute of use.

[ampdude]

This sounds pretty awesome. Please no Ti for me though, especially something this small needs a material that dissipates heat at high efficiency, I'll take aluminum.

[leon2245]

This sounds pretty awesome. Please no Ti for me though, especially something this small needs a material that dissipates heat at high efficiency, I'll take aluminum.

I agree: copper!

[Acid87]

I agree: copper!

+2 I would love a copper run.

[fl0t]

Subscribed. I would like one aluminum and one copper.

I know it is too soon, there are no prototypes yet but as soon as you can... Beamshots please!

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Even if the 500 lumen mode was for 30 seconds, I still think it is a nice feature to have in a tiny light. That said, the keep loosening for higher modes could be great if done properly.

Lots of potential this light, but like you say, still theory just now. I think heat is the major problem here. I have 200 lumen AAA lights that can scold you within a minute of use.

Agreed.
Even with a solid block of Aluminum for the head, I wont know just how well it does on heat management until tested.
Also, there is a small time lag from the time the heat dissipates from the emitter until the time you suddenly feel your fingers burning
so the exact temperature threshold will need to be tested and the final result will likely determine the max burst time on turbo mode.

Maybe I could make 2 versions, one for use with gloves....


tgwnn

[ampdude]

Enclosing the body and head fully in your fist with these lights acts as a heatsink and increases the burst time a bit. When it becomes uncomfortable in your hand, you need to lower the output immediately, and retain the same grip to continue to heatsink the light. If you just hold the light in your fingers or set it on a table, it will get too hot much faster.

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Enclosing the body and head fully in your fist with these lights acts as a heatsink and increases the burst time a bit. When it becomes uncomfortable in your hand, you need to lower the output immediately, and retain the same grip to continue to heatsink the light. If you just hold the light in your fingers or set it on a table, it will get too hot much faster.

Thanks ampdude,
thats a great usage tip!

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Subscribed. I would like one aluminum and one copper.

I know it is too soon, there are no prototypes yet but as soon as you can... Beamshots please!

As soon as humanly possible.
it will be a few weeks before I get to the reflector though...
circuit, body, then reflector..

thanks,
tgwnn

[kaichu dento]

I'm not sure if I'm the only one, but although I love the 4 levels to be available, I'd rather have them all lowered a bit. Starting out at 1 lumen on a light with 4 levels seems far too bright for a starting point and I would think that .1 would be much better, as well as bringing the high level down to a brightness that could be sustained for at least a full minute, or better yet, 3 minutes.

With sporadic usage only, that would give some reasonable life out of a battery before needing to change it out. This light is of great interest to me and I'll be lining up for anything in neutral to warm, especially made of titanium or copper.

[stoli67]

I WOULD TAKE tI, COPPER, AL OR BRASS I have a few spots left for AAA lights!

[BoarHunter]

Agreed.
Even with a solid block of Aluminum for the head, I wont know just how well it does on heat management until tested.
Also, there is a small time lag from the time the heat dissipates from the emitter until the time you suddenly feel your fingers burning
so the exact temperature threshold will need to be tested and the final result will likely determine the max burst time on turbo mode.

Maybe I could make 2 versions, one for use with gloves....


tgwnn

What is your technology background ? I find your approach very strange.

[the_guy_with_no_name]

I'm not sure if I'm the only one, but although I love the 4 levels to be available, I'd rather have them all lowered a bit. Starting out at 1 lumen on a light with 4 levels seems far too bright for a starting point and I would think that .1 would be much better, as well as bringing the high level down to a brightness that could be sustained for at least a full minute, or better yet, 3 minutes.

With sporadic usage only, that would give some reasonable life out of a battery before needing to change it out. This light is of great interest to me and I'll be lining up for anything in neutral to warm, especially made of titanium or copper.

Hi kaichu_dento,

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback.

IMHO, optimal output for each mode is very much a personal preference.
A lower, more practical high mode has been suggested, and I agree that it is probably the more logical/correct choice.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on which camp you are in) I have this bad and illogical desire to do a 500 lumen or as close as possible to it, "wicked" mode for the AAA size.

Maybe, if its not too costly to produce models with different level modes, a more sane version could follow.
I can certainly see the benefit of more runtime, in a AAA package and personally I'd be happy to add a 300 lumen on high 10180 body custom version to my keychain too.

As for the low mode, again, I do find everyone has their preference.
Some people have mentioned 3 lumens, some 5, some 0.5

I am keeping track of everyone's valuable feedback though so if enough people prefer a lower low mode,
it could find its way into the final spec.

btw, I like your hidden yellow footer message.
life is short!

tgwnn

[the_guy_with_no_name]

I WOULD TAKE tI, COPPER, AL OR BRASS I have a few spots left for AAA lights!

Awesome collection you have there Stoli!
Thanks for posting the great photo.

tgwnn

[the_guy_with_no_name]

What is your technology background ? I find your approach very strange.

>>I find your approach very strange.

Do you mean the part about using a glove?

In any case, I appreciate the complement.
Einstein was considered a bit of a hairball too in his day.
I guess it comes with the territory of doing things differently.

Just to lay any doubts to rest though, of course my approach has to be strange to build such a crazy light.

I'm building the light that I want to own and at the same time, happy to share it with the CPF community.

>>What is your technology background ?
That part is strictly classified.
When I get clearance to de-classify, I may request a handle change to
the_guy_with_a_name


Legal Disclaimer:
There is currently no law that requires anyone to own or purchase an MBI Torpedo
(to be sure though, please check regulations in your jurisdiction)

[Grytpype]

There was a post here:

Good luck getting it to work. I personally have to add myself to the list of critics who don't think it is possible. As stated 500 lumens = 1.2 Amps at 2.9 volts assuming you use the U2 bin instead of T6 (which is 1.35 amps).

An alkaline produces 1.5 volts, so with a step up to 2.9 v, it would need about 2.5 amps of current draw. There is absolutely no way to make this work.
An eneloop with 1.2 V, would need to crank out almost 3 amps which is not possible either.

Even a 10440 lithium would struggle, since a 500mAh battery has a safe draw of 1.0 Amps at 3.7 average volts. Hence it would be operating at unsafe current for sure. People already use itp A3 EOS with 10440s which is dangerous. Fortunately the XM-L has a 2.9 Vf instead of 4.something Vf, so it isn't THAT far over spec which is good.

So I would think for safety you would require IMR batteries. Which is fine and dandy, but even then the heat will be significant. Anyone who owns an itp A1 with an RCR123, or a Quark MiniX with RCR123 (I have both), will tell you that they heat up fairly quickly. This light will have about half the thermal mass as those CR123 sized ones, so I'd expect it to temp spike pretty fast.

Your reply was:

Thanks for your support & great point about the U2 bin. Every bit of juice counts at this size.
IMR's are definitely the recommended option.

Safety is an important issue that I'm keeping a close eye on, and yes as you mentioned,
that's part of the reason for implementing the auto-stepdown.

Without auto-stepdown, its essentially a well timed fuse / heat trigger. You could just turn it on at high, and run.....
I will update once I get more details and the first production prototype (still a few weeks away) in my hands.

tgwnn

I don't think your response was adequate. There are heat/safety concerns, and there is even doubt about whether your projection of 500 lumens is feasible at all, even if it is only for a few seconds.

Lots of people are enthusiastically (perhaps naively) jumping on the bandwagon for this light, but you have not convinced some of us that the thing will work at all, let alone work safely.

[easilyled]

@Grytpype, tgwynn has repeatedly said that he needs to do more testing first, that he'll share with us on completion.

Why don't we allow him to do that first before making a judgement?

[the_guy_with_no_name]

There was a post here:

Your reply was:

I don't think your response was adequate. There are heat/safety concerns, and there is even doubt about whether your projection of 500 lumens is feasible at all, even if it is only for a few seconds.

Lots of people are enthusiastically (perhaps naively) jumping on the bandwagon for this light, but you have not convinced some of us that the thing will work at all, let alone work safely.

Hi Grytpype,

Thanks for chiming in and I appreciate the straightforward comments.

Allow me to return the courtesy with a slightly longer post though.

I am grateful for all feedback, thoughts, comments, be they positive or critical,
but I do want to avoid having to do this again so please bear with me whilst I write a somewhat generic answer for those that may follow:

Now hear this!
Naysayers....
Read this post 10 times before posting.
Recommended background music - "A spoonful of sugar"


All set?


For clarity:

This thread is a follow on thread from here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d-you-buy-one-)

As is very clearly stated in first post, this light is in the "concept" & "planning" phase.

As is stated in various other posts during this thread, its currently in the feasibility confirmation phase.

This is also stated on the page the subscribe link points to with the title:
Research Underway
"Currently in the R&D stage to verify that all features can be delivered in the small AAA size"

So, if you are so inclined, before unleashing any negativity, please be sure to read all the posts in this thread.
Do not just look at the picture in post #1 and ask me where is the order page.

Size and heat aside,
Is 500 lumens possible with an XM-L and a 10440 Li-Ion?
Of course it is!

Prove to me its not.

Yes, there are many questions that remain, including but not limited to:
heat/safety/runtime and on a regular AAA the maximum "safe" output
and I have mentioned these are concerns on multiple occasions already.

Whatever "doubts" you may have,
and I say this with no disrespect intended,
those "doubts" are entirely your issue to worry about, not mine.

My focus is on creating the Torpedo.

>>but you have not convinced some of us that the thing will work at all, let alone work safely

I don't want to get too silly but planning means...
well exactly that.
How can I ask anybody to be convinced when Im still planning/verifying?

Im not here to convince anyone, ok.
That means I don't mind if you are convinced or not.
(well not till its finished, then you can judge it, good, bad or ugly, fair enough?).

I appreciate your caution and hesitation and you would be entirely correct to call this an ambitious project.

At the same time, its a little early to pass judgement (in-planning), so whilst I welcome yours and everyone's feedback & concerns, please understand that I don't have any intention of replying to every naysayer post from here onwards about how this is not possible and why I should prove myself, reveal my process, my circuit design, etc, etc, etc.

Participation is entirely optional.

Constructive criticism is welcomed, though I do have a weird sense of humor sometimes,
but please, Im not here to discuss religion, politics or get into p*ssing matches.

Im sharing my experiences with those members of the community who wish to participate in the sharing, and development process, and for those who feel like adding value, in the discussion too.

The spec may change, the size may change, but my goal has been stated.
At the end of the day, I'm just looking to create a hot little torpedo!


...oh and just for the record, there are a bunch of experienced engineers working on this project, its not just some guy with no name.

Grytpype, I owe you a thanks for triggering me to write this post as its better to get this kind of stuff done upfront.

tgwnn

[the_guy_with_no_name]

@Grytpype, tgwynn has repeatedly said that he needs to do more testing first, that he'll share with us on completion.

Why don't we allow him to do that first before making a judgement?

Thanks easilyled

[JacobJones]

Well said man with no name

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Well said man with no name

Thank you Jacob, man with name

I'm feeling very caveman-ish.