Emergency/Disaster Situation Lighting

[Dean N]

I'll apologize ahead of time for the long post. This could/should have perhaps been broken into several posts, but I'm putting together a lighting package, so seeing what all the package is seemed pertinent. On with the show...

I recently completed a CERT training course, and I am in the process putting together a couple of emergency triage/medical/light search and rescue backpacks for myself, in addition to the CERT bag provided by the FD. I'm looking at lights to satisfy a few different purposes, and realize that there is no one shoe fits all, so I'll get a few different (identical) lights for each bag. I'm looking for some feedback on what to consider for the following lighting scenarios:

Area Lighting: This is the one I need the most help on. I'm thinking about lighting for a multiple casualty triage zone. It would be impractical to lug around lanterns in my bag so I was looking at "candle" feature flashlights, but seriously, I would spend a small fortune to get enough to light an open air area. Then it occurred to me that glow sticks might be just the ticket. Unfortunately I have no experience with them and wanted to see if possibly someone here did. There aren't as many glow stick options as there are flashlights, but there are enough options that research is needed. There are various lengths, diameters, and colors. Brightness ratings seem non existent, though Cyalume's product pages mention that their 12" stick provide 4x the light of there 6"" stick for the same duration. There is some "mcd/m2 rating", but it doesn't seem to equate to lumens. Also, I'm not sure which color, if any glows brighter. I kinda presume the lighter (white) the better, but I don't know. The 12" is available ONLY in green, so...


Search & Rescue Handheld: I'm pretty much set on the Quark AA2 Turbo, unless I am made aware of something better for less, or there is something I am overlooking. The S&R would be primarily suburban, though I suppose urban is possible. The things I like most about it is the efficient use of readily available AA batteries (a must, and we don't live in a severe climate area) and the programmable variable output. Also the waterproofing due to chance of immersing. What I really like about the variable output is I can use just the amount of light I need, prolonging battery life, though have at my disposal a relatively bright light with decent throw. Are there other lights that have these features (AAs, variable power, ~200 max lumens, decent throw) to rival this Quark?


S&R/Extraction Headlamp: Again, I think I have my choice narrowed down to the Zebralight H51 Series. What I like about this light is although it would be most used for extraction (and medical and triage depending on ambient lighting conditions), the various carry modes make it a good practical light as well. I want to keep both of the S&R lights on the same batteries, so AA is required, as is waterproofing. What I don't like about the H51 is the broad spacing between the medium and high settings, 28 and 95. I'm not sure 28 is enough, and 95 seems like a lot... I would like a 45-ish setting. I am aware of the Ultrafire UF-2HB with the variable power settings, but I'm not sold on the light itself. I saw the "2008 Headlamps: comprehensive list and details" thread, but honestly didn't go through it all *yet*, mainly because it was started 3 years ago. I'm working through the Flood Beam Headlamp List - 2011 to see if there are lights like the H51 series. So far, nothing. Any suggestions to shorten my research time?


Relatively Powerful Light: Seems it would be good to have one that is a decently long throw spot(ish) light. Again I think I would want to stick with the AAs for continuity, though I suppose I could change my mind on that if the AA batteries limit my choices to just one or two lights. Waterproof is again desired, but I would want multiple power levels and an SOS signal. Something like the Fenix TK41. I haven't had much time to look into this category, yet, but I have looked at a couple dozen, usually eliminating the light due to battery type or no SOS.


Thanks for reading through.

Dean

[ragweed]

If you would use the search bar here, I am sure you will find what your looking for. Also, the reviews section is very helpful. Good Luck..!

[Dean N]

I agree, and I have done a lot of that, but didn't find much on area lighting or experience with and information on Cyalume sticks. Searching and asking is, however, how I arrived at my near decisions on the handheld and headlamp lights, though I wonder if I missed looking lights with similar features. With the relatively powerful light, I admit, I haven't looked a lot, but the 20-30 I have looked up were goose chases, which is why I asked for assistance on what to consider.

I'm still looking, not just waiting, but there is an awful lot to look through.

[StarHalo]

- The only practical application for glow sticks is for use as a locator, like when caving and the team sometimes gets spread out, everyone wears a glow stick so you're easily accounted for. And to be honest, that's the second most often used application for them; first would be to keep kids entertained (still entirely relevant if your site will have any children).

- Quark lights don't have infinitely variable output, if that's important to you, look into some of the Sunwayman lights, with the caveat that the Quark will have better battery life than almost anything else (with the same battery config).

- The use of headlamps eliminates the need for area lighting, but if you're talking about a lot of people in an emergency situation, the only thing that's portable that would light that kind of area is a magnesium starter to set campfires.

[Hogokansatsukan]

I would not limit yourself to AA only lights. In a prolonged situation, you may find yourself changing batteries far too often. I find it better to keep a stock of batteries (cr123). Area lighting outside is going to be tough. Light sticks, as has been mentioned, or good to keep the kids entertained but beyond that...
IMHO, a headlamp that runs on 18650 batteries that will run a long time is a must. Hours fly by in emergency situations and a light that runs an hour will seem like it only goes for 10 minutes when the SHTF. For anything involving injuries, make sure it is a neutral tint and not cool white.

[whiteoakjoe]

1. The only portable lighting I have ever found that is effective is a bottled or white gas lantern.
2. The Quark AA turbo is great for its size I have one but like the 4XAA lights like the Fenix LD40, Jetbeam PA40 for the increased runtimes.
3. Your choice of the Zebralight H51 is a great choice, for medical purposes look at the neurtal or high CRI version of this light.
4. If you go with a 4xAA as your Search & Rescue, you could kill 2 birds with one stone, and use the same light here. and carry extra batteries in its place, or belt carry a 2xAA as a constant backup to the others.

My experience with lagre scale disasters (Katrina and several midwestern tornado strikes) has shown me that batteries are the week link in your gear, you never have enough. Your choice of AA power is probably the way to go I would take a 12v charger and a dozen eneloops if I had to do any of it again.

[Darvis]

Dean, welcome to CPF.. I'll take stab at this and see what I can add.

I'm an avid camper (and you may be saying: "yeah, so?") but I think what pertains to useful camping lighting very much tells you what will work in situations you might be preparing for, for instance

Area lighting: I've tried it all, lanterns, glow sticks, campfire light, you name it. Nothing, and I mean nothing beats a headlamp. Essentially, without a flat white ceiling to bounce light off of, diffused light does almost nothing except create glare at eye level. If you try to hang it, it may provide some decent area lighting, but not enough to really see anything.. maybe help you to stop from tripping on stuff, but that's about it. You will not have enough light for anything else

Think about when you drive by construction zones on the highway... they do not have huge lanterns lighting up the joint, they have reflectored lights aimed at the work zone. Go headlamp here if you can.

S&R: Frankly, the AA T is a good light, but not one I would consider to be search and rescue. When I hear that, I think of a single output substantial light that can provide capacity and output... thinking a 1-2x18650 type host with a solid drop in such as a Malkoff M61 or 91. Talk about a tool for the task, if S&R is a key factor, here's where to spend your money. Plus you just saved some by eliminating the area lighting, right? I also think the Dereelight DBS V3 is great choice here.

Headlamps: Zebralight is a solid choice here. You know that all Zebralights come with headbands? So even the flashlights can be used as headlamps in a pinch.. I like the dedicated ones better, but none the less, love Zebralights, have 9 of them my self, use them all the time and have had great luck with them.

Relatively powerful light: I think (and someone else said this as well) that you're limiting yourself by settling on just AA batteries (and don't think they'll be easy to find). Have some AA flashlights as backups, but 18650 lights are far more powerful and versitile and solar chargers, etc are options here. Consider that one powerful 18650 light such as the great Zebralight SC60 (get them before they're gone) or the SC600 can cover multiple needs for you, much better than any AA. A bombproof Malkoff M61L or LL in a simple Surefire G2 host is aces better than most any light you can find for multiple reason, including S&R. Go with an aluminum host for the M61 or 91. Surefires? Have at them, awesome lights and I personally have multiple E1L's as backup lights.. Variety is the key.

AA's a re great to have, but I would never want one as primary in an emergency situation. Granted, any light is better than no light, and good for you for asking and thinking!!! Sorry about the fractured response as well, had to hurry through, but will be back if you have any more questions.

Good luck!

D

[tolkaze]

Depending on how you were going to use them, you could mock up a system similar to the 24/7 emergency light. I think that a zebralight headlamp on you, using AA's then if you could get it, maybe a ZL H60 or two running on 18650's provides a ton of light, for a very long time. Make a magnet mount for the bracket and you can stick your H60's anywhere you have metal. On top of a car, on the side of your emergency kit, on the side rail of a highway, or just put them in a fork of a tree pointing roughly where you want / need light. There are a few people here who have also put a small magnet in the tailcap of a ZL AA sized light, so they can mount it anywhere you have metal

[HotWire]

Whatever lights you pick, you'll need boxes of batteries for each format. I keep lots of AA, AAA, 18650, 123 primaries, and RCR123s. Most "emergencies" around here are loss of power. A big earthquake can ruin your day! Lights that are not very bright and save battery power are very useful. If you don't have batteries, you have nothing.

[Dean N]

EXCELLENT feedback, folks! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

Lots to consider here, and I really appreciate the time invested in the responses. Made me think a little differently and realize some things. For instance, whiteoakloe, good call on the lighting version for the headlamp. I was thinking whitest/brightest/longest lasting, but for medical use good color rendering is necessary for identification of health conditions (skin color, bruising/internal bleeding signs, etc.).

Good stuff, here.

Dean

[davidt1]

For ZL headlamps, consider the flood models. The H51FW or the upcoming H502W should be great for the task you described. You are right about these being practical lights. With the right mods, you will be amazed what else you can do with them besides using them as headlamps. Please check out the "Zebralight Mods" thread in the headlamp forum for more info.

[Dean N]

Area Lighting: Excellent feedback on the Cyalume sticks. Some vendors would have you believe otherwise to the lighting capabilities, so I'm real glad I checked here first!. I may still pick up a small box of them as locators as mentioned, and enclosed space illumination. Also dangerous obstacle markers. whiteaokjoe, I do have a white gas lantern (and also a rather cruddy 6V fluorescent model), they are just impractical for a go-bag. tolkaze, I like that Inova 24/7 you mentioned for other things as well actually, so I'm calling that done. I needed something to replace the old flares in our cars, and the Inova 24/7 just did. I have 8 on the way for ~$15 each from an eBay vendor. Item #120785352069 if anyone is interested. One going into each of our cars (4), one for grandma, two for the bags, one extra. te day i need them I'll get them out of as many of the cars as I can. I do have a few other CR123 lights (Surefire 6P & 9P w/ThruNite XML Single Mode LED drop ins, and SF618 incandescent), so by having Inova 24/7 lights, it isn't as though I have no reason for 123s otherwise. I would just like to minimize my dependance on them... though I kinda just didn't by buying a batch of 123 lights.

Search & Rescue Handheld: The S&R I'm envisioning includes a lot of burn time just getting to the location, so that is why I would want a multi-power light. I may be totally off here, though, so if you have S&R experience, please, tell me otherwise! Darvis, I need to let my edumacation here evolve a bit more before I can understand all of the option on the Dereelight DBS V3. Honestly, I'm confused. StarHalo, I though read the AA Turbo had a further throw over the non-Turbo model, and also a user definable output for the 5 power levels... 'course now I can't find that second part. (sigh) whiteoakloe, I am also looking at 4xAA lights (including those models) as well for a brighter or longer lasting light.

S&R/Extraction Headlamp: whiteoakloe, good call on the lighting version. I was thinking whitest/brightest/longest lasting, but for medical use good color rendering is necessary for identification of health conditions (skin color, bruising/internal bleeding signs, etc.). Davidt1, yes, I'm impressed with the H51. You brought it up in my College Student Flashlight Thread, and I have liked it ever since. I still may get it for my daughter.

Relatively Powerful Light: whiteoakloe, yep, I was thinking about just that, though I need to revisit reviews on here. I still may get some 600+ lumen spot light though. If just to say, "ooohh".

On Batteries: I think that in a time of disaster that AAs will be easier to find than 123s, and I would think certainly more than any other "specialty" batteries. Heck, I didn't even know they existed until I started lurking around here. I do use Eneloops in the house and have a dozen or so AA spares in addition to the dozen in use, 1/2 dozen AAA spares, and two chargers. I have no issue with picking up more spares and another charger or two. I also have 12V inverters with one being very compact, or which I can get another for ~$20. Not enough power to make margaritas in a Magic Bullet, but enough for a battery charger. I was thinking a charger, 12 spare Eneloops, and an inverter for each bag. All I need is a 12V or 120V source and I can charge what I need, and perhaps what others need as well. Some type of solar charging system is also something I have thought a bit about. Having to then also add a charger and more battery stock for RCR123s or something else starts to get cumbersome. HotWire, I'm with ya on the need for stocking batteries and on the not very bright lights that save battery power. It is finding the balance that is difficult. Pros and cons to every choice, I suppose.

So much to consider...

Dean

[lightsolo]

I like the Pelican StealthLite 2410 Recoil LED Photoluminescent Flashlight for S&R. They have both hand held and head lamp versions. It uses AA batts and is submersible. Check out their website.

[DuncanHynes]

Headlamp! And not a store bought junk circuity fail prone cold tint who-knows-what LED...nooo...a warm or neutral XPG like the Spark brand offered around the MarketPlace or on GoingGear. I have the 18650 that also takes 2 cr123s and the tiny AA model. They come with frosted lenses if you want in the box to swap out, DO so! No other way to be hands free. A great little 'vampire' that runs on a single cr123 is a Malkoff M61LLW. It just won't go dead on you, great personal backup, twisty if you put it in a Valiant host. AA format isn't worth it if you have to slap 4 or more cells IMO...too many have to be fresh. I have a Malkoff M31LL for just 2 AA's with a diffused lens for great indoor purpose needs. Search light, so many possibilites, my personal is a Malkoff Wildcat V2, has 3 XPGs, long runtime off of 2 18650's. 750 lumens, broad throw I call it. There are 2200 lights out there but again, using 6 18650's may not make sense if you had to swap for fresh ones. I have an HDS Executive clicky on me at all times. Period.

[Lighthouse one]

I have several Xeon E03 AA lights with diffusers. I am very impressed with the amount of nice clean light and runtime I get with these. While they aren't overly powerful, they could be quickly set up at several locations until something brighter was available. Small and not too expensive. $30 for the 3 level light and $6 for the diffuser. Actually, DX sells cheaper diffusers that fit this and many other similar size lights.

[ElectronGuru]

On Batteries: I think that in a time of disaster that AAs will be easier to find than 123s, and I would think certainly more than any other "specialty" batteries.

There were some interesting observations during the first big trial of this year's hurricane season. D's sold out first, followed by C's, followed by AA's and AAA's. The only cells still on the shelf a week later, were the 'weird' lithium sizes, including CR123. They won't be in every store, but they may still be easier to find.

My favorite emergency configuration lego is a G3 (or 9) with an M61LL. You can keep it loaded with 17500's and change to 3xCR123 or 2xAA's, any time. Three completely different chemistries in the same package. And all will run for hours and hours. Add a traffic/safety wand and you've got area lighting, too.

[Dean N]

lightsolo, I checked out that Pelican 2410PL, and it is something to consider. I looked to see what else is available with that specifically termed technology, but it seems Pelican is the only one. I'm looking for a similar feature (collimated beam) from other manufacturers. Lotta sifting, lotta beam shots to look at.

DuncanHynes, yep, lotta lights out there, and a lot to consider. 18650s are out of the question, though. Everything I have is AAA, AA and CR123, so I'm sticking with those... though RCR123s are a maybe.

Lighthouse one, those are neat little diffusers!

ElectronGuru, that is excellent insight on the battery situation. Unfortunately that just opened up the possibility door wider. Ughh. On the "G3 (or 9)" you referred to, is that Surefire? I searched "G3 flashlight" and only came up with the Surefire G3D for a current model, but it doesn't say anything about multiple power sources. A search for "G9 Flashlight" resulted in a lot on Canon camera stuff. Or were you referring to a Surefire 9P? I do have a 6Pand a 9P, both with ThruNite XML Single Mode LEDs.

[Dean N]

Ack! ElectronGuru, I just noticed your Sig-Line. Looking through those linked pages now...

[notrefined]

Area lighting= headlamp for all personnel. there's no good way for you personally to provide adequate area lighting out of doors, without spending a lot of money and significantly adding to your load.

I personally think standardizing around 2/3a sized cells (CR123a) gives you more/better options than AA. My economy recommendation would be a surefire G3 ($30) with malkoff M61HCRI ($70) and removable beam-shaper (diffuser) ($15), and a streamlight sidewinder compact headlamp ($45). Bonus is that the G3+malkoff will run a heck of a long time (at reduced output) off of a pair of AAs if you must resort to it. The headlamp is a compromise at best, but I haven't yet found an off the shelf headlamp (or custom for less than a couple hundred dollars) that makes me completely happy (should take single 18650 or 2x123a, high CRI led emitter, dead simple UI). Better would be the M61HCRI in MD3 plus M91W in MD4 (all malkoff), both with hi/lo rings, plus surefire saint headlamp.

More important than any of this is to have a good EDC so that you always have a backup to your CERT gear, and something on your person if you can't get to it in the first place. If you were starting from scratch I'd recommend malkoff hi CRI for this is well, sized appropriately for your EDC needs (starting from M31HCRI in Valiant little twisty and moving up in size from there). The economy version of this for me would be keeping the streamlight headlamp on your person at all times (a headlamp usually works just fine as a handheld flashlight in a pinch).

[ElectronGuru]

On the "G3 (or 9)" you referred to, is that Surefire?

The SF G3 (part: G3-BK) is an incan model. Only the 123 cells were ever listed as supported. There are several locations online (not sf.com) to get them. Shoot me a PM if you'd like a link.

[Dean N]

notrefined, thanks. I'll check out beam shapers (I didn't know there were such things) for my hand held light. For the headlamp, I do like the Zebralight H51 for it's size and versatility, but I'll look at the Sidewinder. I'm OK with single battery for that light as I will have a hand held with me that would have more power levels available and longer run time. EDC is something I'm still working on updating (that Peak Logan QTC looks promising)... basically, I'm updating my and my families entire illumination world. Only gripe so far is from my wife who thinks the Fenix E05 is too big for her key ring.

ElectronGuru, gotcha.

[Hooked on Fenix]

For the area light, I'd suggest just having a diffuser cap for your Quark. That gives you a lightweight 200 lumen lantern for around $5. Fenix makes a good one and may or may not fit your Quark. Mine fits my Fenix L2D, LD20, and my Olight T20. Quarks are another offshoot of Fenix. For the handheld and the headlight, it seems like you've made up your mind and have pretty good choices. For a powerful spotlight, I think you'll find that the brightest l.e.d.s are made for flood and not throw. The best throwing l.e.d. will probably be the R3 binned Cree XP-E. You won't get much higher than 200-300 lumens. If you want bright, go with a 35 watt H.I.D. spotlight. There are some lighter ones with lithium ion batteries, but these will obviously be more expensive.

[Dean N]

For the handheld and the headlight, it seems like you've made up your mind...

Pretty much, though I haven't pulled the trigger yet. I am more sold on the headlamp. There are good arguments for other handheld lights, ones that could dual-purpose as powerful(ish) spotlights, such as 4xAAs or 2-3x123s. I rather need to decide the power supply. AAs have their advantages as do 123s. I'm looking for lights that could accommodate both one way or another, kinda like the Peak Logan that can use the same head/tail on bodies for AAs and 123s, thought the Peaks seem to all be 1x power supply lights.

[History Nut]

I can only speak from my experience in the Northridge Earthquake but since you are CERT certified, you may face similar circumstances. When an incident of that magnitude occurs and grid 'power' is lost, it is DARK! There is NO light at all except for your own flashlights/lanterns! I had a Streamlight angle-head on my turnouts and that gave me light for the rest of the night. Of course, that was a long time ago now and there are much better lights now. My suggestion is to test each light you want to use in an enclosed room that is really light-tight. That way you have some idea of what it will really do when there isn't any other light. Once you do that test, drop your light on the hard floor! If it quits working, find another model/brand/type. You are going to drop your light at some point and it must be rugged enough to keep working. Another suggestion is to have a few extra small lights in your bag in case you want a bystander to 'hold a light for you'. The bystander won't be focused enough to keep the light pointed where you need it(that is why headlamps are best) and may run off with your light. That is why you NEVER hand off your primary light. I don't know your potential environment but if it may involve floods or hard rain, you may want to check out lights sold in SCUBA shops that are certified for full immersion. I hope these comments are useful.

[Dean N]

History Nut, definitely thought provoking comments, and you are apparently in my neck of the woods - I'm on the SF Peninsula. I was in LA for the Whittier quake, and just missed the Northridge quake. What the CERT Trainers here emphasized was the loss of all utilities and telecommunications for 7-10 days when the upcoming large earthquake hits, and it will. The only thing I have purchased so far is the Inova 24/7s, so as you suggested I just went down into our basement to check it out. I have no idea what the lumen output is, but on "low" it was area lighting for ~6', and that's about it. Perhaps if my eyes were acclimated to the dark it would have appeared brighter. On "high" it did a fine job of illuminating the area, which is ~50' deep x 20' wide on the one side. It could have easily gone 75' deep. I won't drop it on the floor, though, considering nothing was stated about impact resistance. They would only be employed as area lighting, if at all, but I get what you are saying about testing the light by dropping it... but kinda scary to do.

As you mentioned I am also looking at "cost effective" lights of decent quality to pass out to folks, focusing more on run time. Yet another reason to go AAs. Most folks have AAs in their house, so we can get a couple runs out of them. Funny you mention scuba lights. A friend offered one he doesn't use any more.

[Timothybil]

The go along with the idea of having a bystander 'helping out', why not throw a handfull or two of those 'fauxton' style coin lights. Great for hanging on a nail or somesuch for a small area light or marker, and great for handing out to someone else who really needs a light that you will probably never get back. Just a thought.

[Burgess]

to History_Nut --


Welcome to CandlePowerForums !





Gee, you've been a CPF member here fer' 4 years, and this is only your 3rd Post !


Truly a man of few words.



_

[Dean N]

Timothybil, clever idea. Thanks.

[Dean N]

To buy these items, I suppose it is best to go to 4Sevens, the supporting vendor on the Quark, but what about the ZL? Any preferred vendors to support? (For the Logan I am going to Oveready, no question, regardless.)

Also, when ordering from these vendors, anything I should know or "insert" before I click the Pay button? I have looked in the Manufacturers Corner in the CPFMarketPlace, but didn't notice anything. I did find something for BugOutUSA.

Dean

[whiteoakjoe]

GoingGear, is the dealer I use the most. Be sure to check out their YouTube site for great demonstrations of all their lights...