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Thread: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

  1. #1
    HKJ's Avatar
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    Default Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 V1 charger

    Charger SysMax i4 V1
    This review is about the V1 version of the Sysmax i4 charger. To see the difference between V1 and V2 follow this link



    SysMax is the parent company of NiteCore and JetBeam, i.e. they are behind some good products. This charger looks impressive when reading the specifications, it can charge nearly all types of round cells and do up to four cells (nearly) independent of each other at a time. Does it really live up to this? I was very curious when starting on this review .



    The charger comes in a cardboard box with a view to the charger and a feature list on the front. This list does not include supported cells, that are printed on the bottom of the charger.




    The charger is powered from either 110/220 VAC 50/60Hz or 12 VDC. Both mains and auto adapter cable was supplied with my charger.
    In USA (and every other place with 110 VAC) there is reported a problem: The charger does not work correctly with 110 VAC supply. SysMax's solution to this is to ship a 110 VAC to 12 VDC adapter.



    The charger has 3 yellow leds for each battery, they will show the actual charge state when charging:
    None: no battery detected
    1 flashing, 1 steady + 1 flashing, 2 steady + 1 flashing: Charging, number of leds is a rough guide to actual charge level.
    3 steady: Battery is full.
    3 flashing: Fail.
    The charger also has a blue led to show "power connected".






    The charger can handle 69 mm long batteries, including flat top cells. (See my 18650 LiIon comparison for length of different brands).


    With 26650/26500/C cells there can be a problem. In the above picture I use a NiMH cell and the button top on the cells does not connect to + on the charger. This means that the charger will only work with these batteries if they have a large plus pole and also is less than 69 mm long.

    With 16340 and 14500 LiIon cells the charge current is a bit high, it is not recommended to charge anything smaller.



    Measurements

    The charger has two charger channels, one channel is handling slot #1 and #3, the other channel is handling slot #2 and #4. When charging cells in both slots for a channel, time division is used to distribute the charge (See scope traces).

    Below 0.2 volt the charger will report error (all 3 yellow leds are flashing), but a small current will flow (about 100uA), this is enough to reset a LiIon protection circuit.
    Between 0.2 volt and 2 volt charger will use the NiMH charge algorithm (See curve below).
    Between 2 volt and 4.2 volt the charger will use the LiIon charge algorithm (See curve below).
    When NiMH charging is stopped, the charger charges with 0.1 mA.
    The charge stops when the current is between 200 and 300 mA, when the charger is finishes the current goes below 20uA (This is a insignificant current).
    The charger will not restart charging when the cell voltage drops.
    When a battery is put into the charger, it will start charging and first stop when final charge condition is reached.
    When power is connected the charger will start charging and first stop when final charge condition is reached.
    When charger is disconnected from power, but with a battery in, it will draw about 220 uA from a LiIon battery.
    There is some tolerance on final LiIon current and final LiIon voltage, even for the same channel.



    Test with LiIon cells



    The charge curve shows a perfect CC/CV charge curve, the termination current is a bit high at 300 mA.



    Same channel, but with another cell. This time the charger does not uses 4.2 volt as the CV value, but slowly rises to 4.17 volt and the termination current is 170 mA. The variation is not a problem for the charging, but is strange.



    But it gets worse, again same channel. This time it uses 3.95 as the CV value and stops charging at more than 600 mA. This will not damage the battery, but it will not be charged either. I saw it a couple of times with this cell.



    With this cell the voltage is also slightly below 4.2 volt and termination current is about 200 mA.



    My old 16340 IMR cell. The charger charges at full current with this small cell, it starts at about 850 mA and reduces the current as voltage rises.



    Channel #2



    Channel #3



    Channel #4



    All four slots at the same time. The charge time is longer because the two channels need to share current between the four slots.
    The charge current is turned off a short time when changing channel.



    The full charge curve does not show how the charge current looks. For this a oscilloscope trace is needed, it shows a pulsing current. The charging circuits stops every two second to check the other slot. This timing is precise enough to make the patterns in my charge curves, that are logged each second.



    With a LiIon in two slots, shared by the same charging channel, the charging is two seconds for each slot.



    Test with NiMH

    For testing I uses eneloop AA cells, these are a very good quality NiMH batteries with about 1950 mAh in capacity.

    [img]http://lygte-info.dk/pic/SysMax/Charger%20i4/SysMax%20i4%20(AA%20eneloop).png[img]

    A NiMH AA cell does show a very nice charge curve, when the cells is full the voltage rises and then drops slightly, this stops the charger.



    With 4 eneloop the charging stops early, but only on the slot I am measuring on. I have a suspicion that the end of charge detection circuit has problems handling two slots for a single channel.



    Charging is with pulsing current (Exactly like LiIon).



    With a eneloop in two slots, shared by the same charging channel, the charging is two seconds for each slot.



    Test with NiMH and LiIon and the same time

    According to the photos of the charger it can handle both NiMH and LiIon batteries at the same time. The specification says it can handle both types of batteries and does not include any limits on this.



    First charge curve is measured on a LiIon with a NiMH in the other slot. Look at the current scale, this looks very strange, the charger is both charging and discharging the LiIon battery for the first 175 minutes (While the eneloop is charging). During this time nearly no energy is filled into the LiIon cell. First when the eneloop is finished charging the LiIon is charged.



    This curve is measured on a eneloop with a LiIon in the other slot. I had to use another scale on the current, because the charge current is considerable higher here. The charger only charges 50% of the time, but the total charge is done in only a little more time than with a NiMH cell only, due to the higher current.



    A oscilloscope trace of the charge current for the LiIon cells, shows a low charge current (350 mA) and a high discharge current (700 mA), i.e. in this case the LiIon cell is discharge to charge the NiMH cell.
    With this trace I did cheat a little, I uses a nearly full LiIon cell. If I had uses a empty cell the charge current would have been larger than the discharge current. Even if the LiIon had been fully charged and charging stopped, this drain would have occured and because the charger does not restart a charging, the cell would be drained, without the status lights showing it.

    The yellow trace is the voltage on the other cell, in this case the NiMH cell. This voltage is shown with too high a value (A problem with my differential probe).
    With voltage traces for both cells it is also possible to see that the charger has a short pause in charging while changing between channels, this is the time where the current is zero.



    This trace shows the charge current for the NiMH cell, it is about 1.4 ampere and applied in about 50% of the time.

    Again the yellow trace is the voltage on the other cell, in this case the LiIon cell. This voltage is shown with too high a value (A problem with my differential probe).



    Summary

    A short list of the good and the bad things with the charger. I uses ++ for the really good things and -- for the really bad things.
    ++ The charger uses a CC/CV algorithm (The actual charge curve varies between a perfect CC/CV and something less).
    + The charger uses a good charge current for 18650 cells.
    + The charger can be used on 12 volt.
    + Good indicator lights with estimation of charge in cells.
    + Can reset a LiIon protection circuit.
    + The slider has good connection with anything from 16340 to 18650 cells.
    - The charge current is too high for small cells.
    - The slots are a bit too short, 1 to 2 mm longer would have been very useful.
    - Small variations in charge voltage and termination current.
    - Does not really support C cells, due to connection issue.
    - The NiMH charge mode prevents correct handling of over discharged LiIon.
    - Can only handle one 26xxx/C cell, due to space constrains (Might be able to handle two 26xxx with a large + pole).
    - NiMH charging slots does affect end of charge conditions on each other.
    - The slider does not always move easily, when putting long cells in the charger.
    -- LiIon charge can fail.
    -- Mixing NiMH and LiIon, gives uncontrolled charge and discharge current.
    -- The charger does not work on 110 VAC, except with an external power supply.



    Conclusion

    This charger uses a CC/CV charging profile, this is the recommended way to charge LiIon batteries, but there is more to a charger than using the correct algorithm and as my summary list shows there are a lot of small details and a few larger details that spoils it.
    The charger is useable, but I would have preferred fewer issues with it. Remember when using the charge never to mix NiMH and LiIon cells in it and always use a DMM to check that LiIon are fully charged when they are removed.



    Notes

    Here is an explanation on how I did the above charge curves: How do I test a charger

    There is a lot of noise in the charge current and I have filtered all oscilloscope traces to remove it.
    Last edited by HKJ; 04-12-2012 at 08:23 AM.
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  2. #2
    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Thanks for the review.

    Personally I've alway been wary of charging different chemistries at the same time. I just don't like the idea.

    I was hoping my guess of the NiMH/LiIon profile change being at 1.8V was right, as 2V seems just a little high to deal with a overdischarged LiIon, but alas.

    As far as the length of the charger is concerned, my AW 2900's and all of my unprotected cells, regardless of creed or colour, fit the charger. The only ones that struggle to fit are the protected cells that stretch the limits of "**650"

    I used a bit of light oil to lubricate the -ve sliders, and they're been smooth as silk since.

    I must admit that the termination voltages I've been getting have been much more reliable than yours. Each cell always seems to come off at the same voltage, but different cells vary (I suppose that's where internal resistance plays its part)

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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by mvyrmnd View Post
    As far as the length of the charger is concerned, my AW 2900's and all of my unprotected cells, regardless of creed or colour, fit the charger. The only ones that struggle to fit are the protected cells that stretch the limits of "**650"
    It is not surprise that unprotected cell fit, they are 65 mm long. I have a few 18650 that are to long and my 24650 from 4Sevens (first generation) is to long.


    Quote Originally Posted by mvyrmnd View Post
    I must admit that the termination voltages I've been getting have been much more reliable than yours. Each cell always seems to come off at the same voltage, but different cells vary (I suppose that's where internal resistance plays its part)
    I was very surprised about this variation in termination voltage and termination current. I looks at the values just before termination, they are supposed to be independent of the cell.
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    - The charge current is too high for small cells.
    Thanks for the detailed review! Regarding the above, if I read things right, you specifically mentioned smaller Li Ion cells... what's the call on AAA NiMH, is 850ma too much? I note most people say they use 400ma on the Mahas for AAA NiMH, but presumably some people just use the 1000ma default, and though it might not be kind to AAAs, it must not be too terribly destructive

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Talmadge View Post
    what's the call on AAA NiMH, is 850ma too much? I note most people say they use 400ma on the Mahas for AAA NiMH, but presumably some people just use the 1000ma default, and though it might not be kind to AAAs, it must not be too terribly destructive
    It is at the limit, the eneloop AAA is specified for 800 mA fast charge and not all AAA cells might be specified that high.

    Eneloop AAA datasheet.
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Thanks for the review HKJ! I have one of these and have had mixed results. I tried charging an Eneloop AA (slot 3) at the same time as an AW RCR123 (slot 4). The Eneloop got very hot and I got a fail signal on the AW. I've had complete success with charging 4 Eneloops at the same time and charging only 2 AW 17670's at the same time (slots 1 and 2). However, when charging 4 AW RCR123 750mAh (all brand new and never before used) I got the fail signal on all 4 slots. I'm not sure what to make of these mixed-bag results.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Lighteous View Post
    Thanks for the review HKJ! I have one of these and have had mixed results. I tried charging an Eneloop AA (slot 3) at the same time as an AW RCR123 (slot 4). The Eneloop got very hot and I got a fail signal on the AW. I've had complete success with charging 4 Eneloops at the same time and charging only 2 AW 17670's at the same time (slots 1 and 2). However, when charging 4 AW RCR123 750mAh (all brand new and never before used) I got the fail signal on all 4 slots. I'm not sure what to make of these mixed-bag results.
    That is strange results, slot #3 and #4 is two different charge channels, i.e. it is possible to charge a NiMH in one and a LiIon in the other, without any problems.
    With the cells I have charger there has not been any with a fail signal, the partial charged cells was reported as full.
    The only time I had problems with filling an eneloop, was when charging 4 with measurement equipment on one of them (I did that test a couple of times, all with the same result). When only charging one NiMH in the same slot that fails with four, it gave the nice charge curve I have shown.

    Could it be that you are using 110 VAC directly into the charger? That will give problems when charging multiple cells. If that is the case, try feeding it 12 VDC from the car or a power supply, and try again with your 4 X RCR123
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Thanks HKJ for the great review! Just so I'm clear about what might be suggested for my smaller AW16340 cells. Should this charger not be used at all because of the higher charging current or would be okay if I only charged 4 of these cells at a time (reduced charging current)? This is taking into account that I will wait to use my charger until I get my 110v adapter replacement. Thanks again!!

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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by TRK View Post
    Thanks HKJ for the great review! Just so I'm clear about what might be suggested for my smaller AW16340 cells. Should this charger not be used at all because of the higher charging current or would be okay if I only charged 4 of these cells at a time (reduced charging current)? This is taking into account that I will wait to use my charger until I get my 110v adapter replacement. Thanks again!!
    If you uses slot #1 and #3 simultaneous (or #2 and #4) can charge 2 cells with low enough current (Using all 4 position simultaneous would also be fine). Only charging 1 cell at a time will wear you cell more.
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    If you uses slot #1 and #3 simultaneous (or #2 and #4) can charge 2 cells with low enough current (Using all 4 position simultaneous would also be fine). Only charging 1 cell at a time will wear you cell more.
    Thank you!! That clears it up for me!

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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    That is strange results, slot #3 and #4 is two different charge channels, i.e. it is possible to charge a NiMH in one and a LiIon in the other, without any problems.
    With the cells I have charger there has not been any with a fail signal, the partial charged cells was reported as full.
    The only time I had problems with filling an eneloop, was when charging 4 with measurement equipment on one of them (I did that test a couple of times, all with the same result). When only charging one NiMH in the same slot that fails with four, it gave the nice charge curve I have shown.

    Could it be that you are using 110 VAC directly into the charger? That will give problems when charging multiple cells. If that is the case, try feeding it 12 VDC from the car or a power supply, and try again with your 4 X RCR123
    Yes, I am using a 110 VAC directly into the charger. Mine didn't come with a 12 volt DC cord. I will give it a try after I obtain one.

    Thanks for the response!

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    *Flashaholic* Mr Happy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Lighteous View Post
    Yes, I am using a 110 VAC directly into the charger. Mine didn't come with a 12 volt DC cord. I will give it a try after I obtain one.

    Thanks for the response!
    The USA actually has a 120 V mains supply...be careful that the extra 10 V does not blow it up
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Happy View Post
    The USA actually has a 120 V mains supply...be careful that the extra 10 V does not blow it up
    Good point--I knew that too! It is 120 volt direct.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    This charger is absolute garbage. I was one of those unfortunate to buy one due to lies and bs in the specs for this thing. It won't charge my 18650's and its extremely cheaply made, no wonder it's priced low, avoid this thing at all costs, mine is now sitting at the bottom of the garbage bag in the garage. $30 Down the drain.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SantaClawz View Post
    This charger is absolute garbage. I was one of those unfortunate to buy one due to lies and bs in the specs for this thing. It won't charge my 18650's and its extremely cheaply made, no wonder it's priced low, avoid this thing at all costs, mine is now sitting at the bottom of the garbage bag in the garage. $30 Down the drain.
    If you're going to throw it away, I'll pay the postage for you to send it to me. No point in wasting it.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by SantaClawz View Post
    This charger is absolute garbage. I was one of those unfortunate to buy one due to lies and bs in the specs for this thing. It won't charge my 18650's and its extremely cheaply made, no wonder it's priced low, avoid this thing at all costs, mine is now sitting at the bottom of the garbage bag in the garage. $30 Down the drain.
    Why not send it back to were you bought it and wait for Version 2 or buy something known for reliability like the Trustfire TR-001, Ive had the same 3 TR-001 charging batteries almost non stop for the last 2+ years without a problem. These Jetbeam/Nitecore Chargers should have never been sent to distributors or dealers without further testing, its a law suit/FIRE waiting to happen. HKJ, Thank You for testing these and providing this information to myself and the members of this awesome forum, 2 thumbs up!!!

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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    First Generation = Unpaid Beta Testers

    I hope that everyone having issues gets them resolved, and, if they choose to get a refund, gets one promptly.

    Although many are dissatisfied, it would be worse if the dealer does not issue refunds for something not functioning as advertised.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by FlashlightsNgear.com View Post
    These Jetbeam/Nitecore Chargers should have never been sent to distributors or dealers without further testing, its a law suit/FIRE waiting to happen.
    Thank you!

    Make sure to forward your opinion over to MattK. He thinks they are "perfectly safe" and to question their safety is a "baseless assumption".

  19. #19

    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by LEDAdd1ct View Post
    First Generation = Unpaid Beta Testers

    I hope that everyone having issues gets them resolved, and, if they choose to get a refund, gets one promptly.

    Although many are dissatisfied, it would be worse if the dealer does not issue refunds for something not functioning as advertised.
    Not for power electronics....things have to be sorted out before you ship them to people.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic Lighteous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    I've asked GoingGear for an RMA. I have safety concerns and no stomach for risk.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    It's interesting how it's most accurate with "big" and "well regarded" cells, and ends up lower voltage and lower charge with "less well regarded brand" and small cells... Is there a conneciton between battery internal resistance and the charger's behaviour?

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    The final CV stage feeds the cell 4.2V at whatever current it's willing to absorb. If the internal resistance is higher, then the current it can absorb will be lower, resulting in a lower termination voltage.

    I think, anyway. There's smarter people here who will know for sure. I have some brand new cells that terminate in this charger at 4.2V. Older ones terminate between 4.16 and 4.18V. Bigger cells generally have lower internal resistance than smaller ones. My 14500 usually terminates at a lower voltage than my 18650's.

    I have some IMR 18650's that need a charge. I'll see where they cut off, as they have lower IR than ICR cells.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Very nice review.
    Probably wait for the V2 with small bug fixes.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Thank you so much for this review..
    Peace and Love in the World



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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    this just sounds terrifying. i would have thought that Jetbeam and Nitecore's parent company would have produced something a little better!

    Still getting on well with my Xtar WP2 which i bought thanks to HKJs' review

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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher_Aod View Post
    this just sounds terrifying. i would have thought that Jetbeam and Nitecore's parent company would have produced something a little better!

    Still getting on well with my Xtar WP2 which i bought thanks to HKJs' review
    They make great battery DISchargers , but going in the opposite direction requires a different kind of expertise. I'm sure they'll get it sorted out eventually; this product is crap, but we only know it to be so because other companies have already made their own mistakes and learned their own lessons and now offer much better products.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    One of my i4 chargers (3) just went while charging 4 x Jetbeam 18650 2300mAh (220VAC). I pulled the plug out quickly. The i4 was dead . The charger was very hot at the time.
    Wouldn't leave this charger charges unattended any more .

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by theix View Post
    One of my i4 chargers (3) just went while charging 4 x Jetbeam 18650 2300mAh (220VAC). I pulled the plug out quickly. The i4 was dead . The charger was very hot at the time.
    Wouldn't leave this charger charges unattended any more .
    What kind of voltage was you running it on? 110, 115, 220, 230, 240 or with external power supply?
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    What kind of voltage was you running it on? 110, 115, 220, 230, 240 or with external power supply?
    Like I said. 220VAC. (Thailand)

  30. #30

    Default Re: Review of / Measurement on SysMax i4 charger

    Hi SantaClawz, What charger do you have now? I have the Pila but looking for better or should I get another Pila?

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