P60 modules - warm, neutral, cool white/XPG-S2- XML-U2 / P60 modules (part 9)

[Motodeficient]

Great, thanks.

[jak3All3n]

Hi Buddy

I have been testing these new 8.4 drivers and I really like them. They are bright and are very heavy duty. The inductor or coil or what ever it is called is huge and the drivers works great. These drivers are manufactured by a VERY well known flashlight company and I am glad they sold me some. They stock the level to memory much quicker than the 6 volt drivers 3 second set.

Dave

hi dave, do you mind elaborating a bit on the memory part? i love my nb xp-g and xm-l drop-ins but wished that levels were stored faster. also, would these new drivers work well in a 1 x 18650 config?

thanks.

[nailbender]

hi dave, do you mind elaborating a bit on the memory part? i love my nb xp-g and xm-l drop-ins but wished that levels were stored faster. also, would these new drivers work well in a 1 x 18650 config?

thanks.

Hi

They basically work the same way as the most memory drivers work and much like my other ones do. I have not timed it but they seem close to the same time delay. While 3 seconds seems like a long time at time I have had ones that it seemed like you could not click it fast enough to change levels. The next one I build I will see if it is faster.

As for the new drivers, I have not tested with a single li ion. The voltage range is within parameters . My regular single li ion drivers spec at 2.8 volts while the new drivers state 3.4 but I would expect they would be fine although I have not tested.

[tallyram]

Hi Dave, money sent for:

XM-L U2 1A
3 level(low-medium-high)
2.8-6volts regulated
2.8amps
smooth reflector
potting and tape
$45.00 + $5.00(cc)

Host is a Solarforce L2P(2011)

[alvinyhwong]

Hi

I don't order from Cutters because of past problems and becuase of high shipping and handling that would have to be added to the cost of modules. I will look at my vendor today and will quote you prices for the modules if the shipping takes them beyond my base price. I stock what I can sell and some of the colors I can't sell so I won't leave them sitting on the shelf as I already carry a huge investment in emitters. I have red and green and amber so I will see what my regular vendor carries. I ALWAYS order the highest bin my vendor carries. It is not always possible to get the highest bins listed on the spec sheets not even Cutter is able to do that.

Dave

May I ask who your vender is? Can you also check if they have luxeon color LEDs and see which LED I can get with the most colors? Thanks!

[nailbender]

May I ask who your vender is? Can you also check if they have luxeon color LEDs and see which LED I can get with the most colors? Thanks!

Hi

You asked about XPE's and none of the major vendors will carry both Cree and Philips emitters, Phillips luxeon would be a totally different vendor.

I can get RED / ORANGE RED / BLUE / GREEN / AMBER in XPE in highest flux bins. The ROYAL BLUE would have to be a rebel that I have in stock as none of my Cree Vendors are stocking Royal Blue XPE.

Do remember as you ask for colors, if you want the color in the wave lengths that they are made for you can NOT push these but so much past specs and specs vary from .5 amps with the amber to 1 amps in greens and blue and .7 amps in reds and orange red. If you push these too hard they will tint shift out of what you ordered them to be.

Dave

[jak3All3n]

Hi

They basically work the same way as the most memory drivers work and much like my other ones do. I have not timed it but they seem close to the same time delay. While 3 seconds seems like a long time at time I have had ones that it seemed like you could not click it fast enough to change levels. The next one I build I will see if it is faster.

As for the new drivers, I have not tested with a single li ion. The voltage range is within parameters . My regular single li ion drivers spec at 2.8 volts while the new drivers state 3.4 but I would expect they would be fine although I have not tested.

thanks dave

[alvinyhwong]

Hi

You asked about XPE's and none of the major vendors will carry both Cree and Philips emitters, Phillips luxeon would be a totally different vendor.

I can get RED / ORANGE RED / BLUE / GREEN / AMBER in XPE in highest flux bins. The ROYAL BLUE would have to be a rebel that I have in stock as none of my Cree Vendors are stocking Royal Blue XPE.

Do remember as you ask for colors, if you want the color in the wave lengths that they are made for you can NOT push these but so much past specs and specs vary from .5 amps with the amber to 1 amps in greens and blue and .7 amps in reds and orange red. If you push these too hard they will tint shift out of what you ordered them to be.

Dave

Is it the heat or the current itself responsible for the tint shift? I will be using a powerful cooling fan so heat shouldn't be a problem. Also is the tint shift dramatic and will the light become less "monochromatic"? I would like to push the amber particularly, because I want to run all of them at the same current. By the way, I will be ordering one of each of red, amber, green and blue XP-Es and a royal blue rebel. The orange-red would be too close to a red to be useful (only 10nm difference). Thank you!

[nailbender]

Is it the heat or the current itself responsible for the tint shift? I will be using a powerful cooling fan so heat shouldn't be a problem. Also is the tint shift dramatic and will the light become less "monochromatic"? I would like to push the amber particularly, because I want to run all of them at the same current. By the way, I will be ordering one of each of red, amber, green and blue XP-Es and a royal blue rebel. The orange-red would be too close to a red to be useful (only 10nm difference). Thank you!

Hi

It is not the heat but the amperage or so I would imagine but the extra current could be associated with over heating it, the amber is one of the brightest yet is the lowest amperage. I will do as you want but as I have said they will tint shift, I have seen the red go orange red when pushed too hard but I will build as you want. I then take it you would want them all ran at 1 amp which would be 200% of the specified amperage for amber. I will order what I am missing for your project.

Dave

[alvinyhwong]

Hi

It is not the heat but the amperage or so I would imagine but the extra current could be associated with over heating it, the amber is one of the brightest yet is the lowest amperage. I will do as you want but as I have said they will tint shift, I have seen the red go orange red when pushed too hard but I will build as you want. I then take it you would want them all ran at 1 amp which would be 200% of the specified amperage for amber. I will order what I am missing for your project.

Dave

Can you make something like a linger special for the amber and red so that they can be driven harder without the tint shift? Also, I have been calculating the output of the LEDs and found a tremendous difference between the XP-E blue and royal blue. Royal blue is stated at 425mW@350mA. Blue is stated at 30.6 lm@350mA, and given that 683 lm/W at 555nm and 475nm is approximately 10% of that according to the luminosity function, then the output of blue is 30.6/683*10% which equals 0.0045W or 4.5mW@350mA. Can you see if the output between the blue and royal blue (rebels are 500mW@350mA) are really so different or are there some mistakes in my calculations? Thanks!

[nailbender]

Can you make something like a linger special for the amber and red so that they can be driven harder without the tint shift? Also, would two LEDs driven at 500mA each match the output of the others at 1.2A given the lowered efficiency at high amperages? Thanks!

Hi

I am not a lighting engineer so I would have trouble answering some of these questions. Since the amber at .5 amps and the red at .7 amps are both the same lumens and the royal blue can not even be measured in lumens I don't see how you are going to match all these to the EXACT same strength. I am not sure how critical the actual colors are to you but you do have to be careful over driving them. They are not like coolwhite that can be pushed to extremes.

You can go to Cree's website, go to the XPE binning chart and see if you can match lumens to amperages you would like. I have ordered the couple of colors I did not have but it will be end of week to first of next week since I had them shipped ground to hold shipping costs down being, 2nd day can get expensive when only a few emitters are ordered.

Dave

[alvinyhwong]

Thanks! Obviously I didn't edit my last post in time for you to see... but can you check with the blue and royal blue emitters and see if they match with my calculations when they arrive?

[nailbender]

Can you make something like a linger special for the amber and red so that they can be driven harder without the tint shift? Also, I have been calculating the output of the LEDs and found a tremendous difference between the XP-E blue and royal blue. Royal blue is stated at 425mW@350mA. Blue is stated at 30.6 lm@350mA, and given that 683 lm/W at 555nm and 475nm is approximately 10% of that according to the luminosity function, then the output of blue is 30.6/683*10% which equals 0.0045W or 4.5mW@350mA. Can you see if the output between the blue and royal blue (rebels are 500mW@350mA) are really so different or are there some mistakes in my calculations? Thanks!

Hi

No mistake there is that much difference between royal blue and blue in either XPE or rebel. It has to do with the wave length. The royal blue is more of a specialty tint and all the members that have bought them were pleased but yes there is a difference. Most of the members use xRE in royal blue or the rebel but several have asked for XPE. The rebel and the XPE are close in viewing angles and are very close over all and I doubt you can see the small amount of intensity difference between the rebel and the XPE. The royal blue tint is the only one not measured in lumens, it is measured much like IR and UV are measured.

After all that do not think that it is not bright enough to walk with and such things but it is less than regular blue but the tint is totally different also. The royal blue with a strobe is much the same tint as a blue light in law enforcement.

I had the rebel in stock because a member wanted that specific emitter and color for his night vision or something and was extremely please with it. If you are looking for the brightest blue then that will be SST90 blue but it is blue not royal blue.


Dave

[alvinyhwong]

Hi

No mistake there is that much difference between royal blue and blue in either XPE or rebel. It has to do with the wave length. The royal blue is more of a specialty tint and all the members that have bought them were pleased but yes there is a difference. Most of the members use xRE in royal blue or the rebel but several have asked for XPE. The rebel and the XPE are close in viewing angles and are very close over all and I doubt you can see the small amount of intensity difference between the rebel and the XPE. The royal blue tint is the only one not measured in lumens, it is measured much like IR and UV are measured.

After all that do not think that it is not bright enough to walk with and such things but it is less than regular blue but the tint is totally different also. The royal blue with a strobe is much the same tint as a blue light in law enforcement.

I had the rebel in stock because a member wanted that specific emitter and color for his night vision or something and was extremely please with it. If you are looking for the brightest blue then that will be SST90 blue but it is blue not royal blue.


Dave

Sorry I figured that I did my calculations incorrectly. I have made an excel table which can calculate the current that I'll need in order to give all of the LEDs the same amount of power, and all I'm missing is the flux bin of the individual LEDs that I'll get, and ALL of the drive currents available for your 1 level drivers (I'll be using a 12V power supply, but a wider voltage range would be nice). Currents I need would range hugely because I will require a linger style in some of them. Anyway, thanks again for helping me through this project!

[brandocommando]

Hi NB, I need one for my brother!

T50 4A 4500K Neutral White
3.4 - 9 Volts (2.8A Regulated)
3 Mode L/M/H W/Memory
OP Reflector
Potting + Tape (+$5)




Thanks!

[nailbender]

Sorry I figured that I did my calculations incorrectly. I have made an excel table which can calculate the current that I'll need in order to give all of the LEDs the same amount of power, and all I'm missing is the flux bin of the individual LEDs that I'll get, and ALL of the drive currents available for your 1 level drivers (I'll be using a 12V power supply, but a wider voltage range would be nice). Currents I need would range hugely because I will require a linger style in some of them. Anyway, thanks again for helping me through this project!

Hi

I have few choices for amperage in a 12 volt driver, higher voltage drivers are not built so I can just remove resistors or add to allow changes. In 6 volts versions I can alter them from 350ma to 2.8 amps in segments of 350ma. With the 12 volt I will have 1 amp and 1.2 amp

Dave

[Ginseng]

Hi Dave,
I'd like to order the following spec. Can you make it?
Cree XM-L T60, 3C 5000K, 2-level Hi-Lo Reg, OP reflector, 3.5A, potting copper tape: $45
Wilkey

Hey Jim,
I received the drop-in today and I'm pleased with the product. Nice beam profile, bright as all get out. Thanks for making such excellent engines and at such wonderful prices.

Wilkey

[paulsl]

Dave, I just sent paypal Transaction ID: 7UC37709AF547743W for the following but forgot my CPF id on the notes. Thanks, Pablo.

1 - Cree XM-L $40 + $5 potting, please don't glue into OP reflector
T60 flux bin 3C 5000k daylight whitepushed to 4.2 amps, 3 level Low / Med / High
for FM Clone 18650 IMR


1 - Cree XM-L $40 + $5 potting, please don't glue into SMO reflector
U2 bin 1A Cool White pushed to 4.2 amps, 3 level Low / Med / High
FM Clone 18650 IMR

[alvinyhwong]

Hi

I have few choices for amperage in a 12 volt driver, higher voltage drivers are not built so I can just remove resistors or add to allow changes. In 6 volts versions I can alter them from 350ma to 2.8 amps in segments of 350ma. With the 12 volt I will have 1 amp and 1.2 amp

Dave

How does adding or removing resistors work? Does this mean you can make more than just 1A and 1.2A with 12V? By the way, I really need those flux bins for my calculations. Thanks!

[nailbender]

How does adding or removing resistors work? Does this mean you can make more than just 1A and 1.2A with 12V? By the way, I really need those flux bins for my calculations. Thanks!

HI

I guess I did not state things clear enough in the last post as I said I could NOT change 12 volt drivers and I had few choices. In the quote you refer to it tells you what amperage drivers in 12 volt which is FEW. I stated that in 6 volt versions I am able to manipulate the drivers amperage in 350ma segments. You are right that adding and removing resistors even in 12 volt versions will change the voltage but they are different resistors and depending on driver used often hidden under other components. With my knowledge I pretty much leave the higher voltage drivers as designed.

You are going to have to use the lumens listed on CREE's website for your calculations. I can not measure colored lumens myself becuase my sphere's meter has been built with filters in it so as to only measure white lights. Manufacturers specs will have to do, I was able to order the top bins in all colors asked for.

Dave

[nailbender]

Dave, I just sent paypal Transaction ID: 7UC37709AF547743W for the following but forgot my CPF id on the notes. Thanks, Pablo.

1 - Cree XM-L $40 + $5 potting, please don't glue into OP reflector
T60 flux bin 3C 5000k daylight whitepushed to 4.2 amps, 3 level Low / Med / High
for FM Clone 18650 IMR


1 - Cree XM-L $40 + $5 potting, please don't glue into SMO reflector
U2 bin 1A Cool White pushed to 4.2 amps, 3 level Low / Med / High
FM Clone 18650 IMR

Hi

No problem thanks for letting me know.

Dave

[Motodeficient]

I have enjoyed your XML T6 3.1 Amp drop in, hopefully this post will get me to the 3 posts required so I can PM you to have it fixed and continue enjoying it!!

[alvinyhwong]

HI

I guess I did not state things clear enough in the last post as I said I could NOT change 12 volt drivers and I had few choices. In the quote you refer to it tells you what amperage drivers in 12 volt which is FEW. I stated that in 6 volt versions I am able to manipulate the drivers amperage in 350ma segments. You are right that adding and removing resistors even in 12 volt versions will change the voltage but they are different resistors and depending on driver used often hidden under other components. With my knowledge I pretty much leave the higher voltage drivers as designed.

You are going to have to use the lumens listed on CREE's website for your calculations. I can not measure colored lumens myself becuase my sphere's meter has been built with filters in it so as to only measure white lights. Manufacturers specs will have to do, I was able to order the top bins in all colors asked for.

Dave

I guess you misunderstood what I meant by flux bin, which is the R4 in XP-G R4 and U2 in XM-L U2. Color LEDs have a flux bin too, which I have to know in order to calculate power from manufacturers specs.

Well I may have to buy a 5V power supply then. I will definitely need a linger style with both the amber and green and maybe some others too. I just want to make sure if you have enough emitters for that. Thanks!

[nailbender]

I guess you misunderstood what I meant by flux bin, which is the R4 in XP-G R4 and U2 in XM-L U2. Color LEDs have a flux bin too, which I have to know in order to calculate power from manufacturers specs.

Well I may have to buy a 5V power supply then. I will definitely need a linger style with both the amber and green and maybe some others too. I just want to make sure if you have enough emitters for that. Thanks!

Hi

Yes I will have enough emitters for any duals you will need. I will try to get a list up for you on flux bins as I will have to go to the Cree charts. I purchased the flux bins with the highest lumen made in each color so I will go to the chart and look at the bottom of each colors chart since that is the highest lumens per color.

Dave

[alvinyhwong]

Hi

Yes I will have enough emitters for any duals you will need. I will try to get a list up for you on flux bins as I will have to go to the Cree charts. I purchased the flux bins with the highest lumen made in each color so I will go to the chart and look at the bottom of each colors chart since that is the highest lumens per color.

Dave

That will be problematic because the max flux bins are different between the main page, the data sheet and the charts. For example, for the red XP-E alone, it's N4 (62 lm/W) on the main page, N3 (56.8 lm/W) on the data sheet and P3 (73.9 lm/W) on the charts. I know that Cree overstates their flux bins so that they do not have to update their website too often, so it probably isn't P3. But will it be N3 or N4? Does your vendor state what flux bins they're selling?

[jackofhearts]

Hi Dave, I'd like your advice on a couple of modules please:

1. Single mode, to be used in a bored 6P with 1x18650. I'd like a neutral tint and a run-time over an hour. Will this work:

Cree XML, T40 flux bin 5B2 4000k neutral white

2. Single mode, to be used in an E1e with Z44 adapter. Sensible runtime on 1xCR123 (1.5-2 hours before dimming?). I like the sound of:

Cree XPG, Q2 3000K 7A3 (90 minimum CRI) NEW

I'd like OP reflectors, thermal potting and I'm in the UK.

[nailbender]

Hi Dave, I'd like your advice on a couple of modules please:

1. Single mode, to be used in a bored 6P with 1x18650. I'd like a neutral tint and a run-time over an hour. Will this work:

Cree XML, T40 flux bin 5B2 4000k neutral white

2. Single mode, to be used in an E1e with Z44 adapter. Sensible runtime on 1xCR123 (1.5-2 hours before dimming?). I like the sound of:

Cree XPG, Q2 3000K 7A3 (90 minimum CRI) NEW

I'd like OP reflectors, thermal potting and I'm in the UK.

Hi

Well you did not tell me the mah of the 18650 but a XML running at 2.8 amps will get around an hour give or take depending on condition of the battery and resistance of host and switch but in that general neighborhood. Two ways to get better run time, use levels or reduce amperage.

As for the 90 cri XPG I really don't have any one levels for a single CR123 primary, if you went to a RCR123 then I would have a driver that will work. Again to get the amount of runtime you are looking for the amperage would probably have to be reduced to about 1 amps. I would usually run the XPG at 1.4 amps but that only gives about an hour if the RCR is 1400mah. I am not sure what mah RCR123 come in.

Dave

[jackofhearts]

Well you did not tell me the mah of the 18650 but a XML running at 2.8 amps will get around an hour give or take depending on condition of the battery and resistance of host and switch but in that general neighborhood. Two ways to get better run time, use levels or reduce amperage.

As for the 90 cri XPG I really don't have any one levels for a single CR123 primary, if you went to a RCR123 then I would have a driver that will work. Again to get the amount of runtime you are looking for the amperage would probably have to be reduced to about 1 amps. I would usually run the XPG at 1.4 amps but that only gives about an hour if the RCR is 1400mah. I am not sure what mah RCR123 come in.
Dave

Is it OK to arbitrarily reduce the amps, or does each emitter have a peak amps / efficiency? I don't really understand, sorry. Would I get what I want if we used 2.0a on the first one, then used a 750mah RCR123 at 0.7a on the 2nd? Thanks for your help

[nailbender]

Is it OK to arbitrarily reduce the amps, or does each emitter have a peak amps / efficiency? I don't really understand, sorry. Would I get what I want if we used 2.0a on the first one, then used a 750mah RCR123 at 0.7a on the 2nd? Thanks for your help

Hi

Yes you can reduce the amperage but of course you reduce the total output. If you dropped the XML from 2.8 amps to 2 amps you will drop the lumens from 600 lumens to I am guessing about 450 lumen maybe a bit more. On the Q2 you will cut the output from about 230 lumens or so to 150 or so as a guess.
The XML at 2 amps is still more lumens than a XPG running at full power. The leds don't mind the lower amperage if you don't mind the lower output. Alot of XML drop ins only run at about 2 amps some even less.

again not trying to talk you into levels but you can do the same thing with levels and still get the option of full power if needed. These drivers do have memory so last level used is going to be level when turned on with next use.

Dave

[jackofhearts]

Hi

Yes you can reduce the amperage but of course you reduce the total output. If you dropped the XML from 2.8 amps to 2 amps you will drop the lumens from 600 lumens to I am guessing about 450 lumen maybe a bit more. On the Q2 you will cut the output from about 230 lumens or so to 150 or so as a guess.
The XML at 2 amps is still more lumens than a XPG running at full power. The leds don't mind the lower amperage if you don't mind the lower output. Alot of XML drop ins only run at about 2 amps some even less.

again not trying to talk you into levels but you can do the same thing with levels and still get the option of full power if needed. These drivers do have memory so last level used is going to be level when turned on with next use.

Dave

I have a 3-mode SST-50 module which you made me last year. Running in a 6P with a 2700mah 18650, I find I use medium & high quite a lot, never use low. What I was looking for with the first single mode XML module was something which lasted longer than the SST-50 on high, but was brighter than medium.

I'm not set on single mode for the 2nd module. It looks like your XML drivers go down to 2.8V. Are those suitable for a single CR123? How about a two-mode with memory T30 flux bin E7 3000K Warm White?

Sorry to be asking so many questions; everyone else seems to know exactly what they're looking for!