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Thread: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

  1. #1
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    Default Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Hi there!

    I'm not new to either CPF nor LED-lighting but this will be my first "big" project and I have whole autumn/winter 'till next off-road season to complete it.
    My motivation on this project is my off-road hobby and the fact that vision-x light-bars are insanely expensive (Dealers here in Sweden add more to the already sky-high price, so it's almost ridiculous).

    A friend of mine has one of those bars, I think it's the largest version and to my knowledge he paid an equivalent to a cost of a small house in cash for it. The guy practically sh*ts money, so he can afford it. So you see.. it's kinda competitive too . Building a light-bar with more power for less money is that ultimate goal.

    Anyway let's get serious, this build is about more than just making my friend cry like a a little girl and begging me to build him one too. This is about.. well probably the very essence of CPF - light, light and sh*itlot of illumination introduced to the surroundings at those levels where the amount of produced photons actually make air vibrate and leafs to prematurely fall from the trees.
    But in reality that's a dream which will probably never come true, at least not in this small scale build or until someone invents a small portable nuclear reactor for my Jeep.

    I have most of the build figured out, there're some minor ambiguities about the housing left to handle.
    Please forgive me for using metric units, It's a PITA to translate them, and most of dealers use metric to specify dimensions anyway.
    And finally, please do me a favor and spare me those discussions of how HID's are better, and how I will be robbing entire southern Sweden of a white Christmas only by dissipating that LED heat, I know that already.


    __________________________________________________ _______

    The housing

    The bar itself will me made of an aluminum U-channel. I know that an u-channel is not the prettiest thing to make a housing of, but let the version 1.0 be about function and not the looks :-)
    Bolted front panel with either plexi or glass window. Aluminum end caps secured by small bolts flush with the U-channel sides. Front panel will have some kind of rubber och silicone stripe around the outer edge to achieve hermetic seal. (I think a small vent is neccessary though... heat from LEDs + trapped air = boom)

    I'll be ordering five lengths of this aluminum heatsink off of Ebay to make a total of 1000mm. The bar will be a bit wider than that, but I believe the length of heatsinks is sufficient. These will be bolted (or maybe even "durafix"-ed) to the outer backside of the U-channel with a layer of thermo-compound between surfaces.


    The LEDs


    Thirteen (it's not final yet :-) maaayybe I can squeeze one more in ) SST-90 LEDs will be mounted to the back of the u-channel using thermo-compound and small bolts. On top of these I will mount these reflectors. I'm not entirely sure yet of how I'll mount the reflectors so they stay in place, and still be removable if needed.
    One of the ideas is to glue them to the front window and have them come off as one piece... we'll see...


    Driving

    There are two drivers to chose from, Mister Wichtel's and this one. The advantage of the latter is two-mode ability. Not sure yet if I want that. Actually I'm not even sure if it's still produced and sold. DerWichtels is (I asked)
    Both are small, and both can drive more than one LED off the Jeeps power. DerWichtel recommends two in series, I believe him :-)
    Drivers will be attached to the bar walls as well so they stay cool.

    There's a third option which is probably more optimal for this build: a monster switching supply. The above mentioned drivers are tiny, and are built with a flashlight in mind. But in a Jeep I have none of those limitations flashlight-builders have to wrestle with. No need to save space, no power limitations, good cooling possibilities and no limit on PCB's configuration/size/number of components. The only thing is that I have not found one suitable adjustable current DC-DC supply yet... If you know of one throw me a PM


    Mounts

    to come...
    have not figured out that yet, but it's on the easy side.

    I will continuously fill this thread with my progress :-)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    and first update...
    Today the first two LEDs have arrived...

    SST-90-W65S-F11-GN100 BIN WN

    I really expected them to be bigger.... I guess all the pictures on the web are a bit missleading...






    Only 10mm

    Two drivers are also ordered -DIWdiver's two-mode vehicle adapted.

    I will test them along with SSTs before ordering more.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* PapaLumen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    This is going to get interesting...

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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    if your not wearing a #12 welding screen than it ain't bright enough! "Hand-Sun H.I.D." 55w & 75w(for sale), Rocky 3w LED, Stanley 109 35w mod'd, Maxa-Beam Gen II, 55w hid/100w incan Vector Twin, 400w MH long arc, 100w MH mid arc. Amondotech n30.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    I'm tuned in for sure! Any info on the Jeep?
    This is my signature. They're many like it but this one is mine..

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    sure! It's a completely separate story - pretty OT here on CPF, but I think moderators won't mind a quick peek

    It's Grand Cherokee 93' 5,2 V8
    heavily modded for off road
    I'll spare you the technicals (unless you want them *hehe*)

    I've built it myself, over a period of probably three years... adding mods between seasons. But the latest (and still not final :-) ) version looks like this:




    I have a build thread too, but it's in Swedish (pics are still watchable tho')

  8. #8

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    Very nice looking Grand! Of course I want the tech specs. I'm Jeeper myself with a TJ heavily modified for the rocks. Always nice to see what Jeepers from around the world are running. Anyways good luck with the project. Like I said I'll be following this build with the hopes of one day doing something similar with mine.
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  9. #9
    Flashaholic* Moddoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Cool project, and cool truck.

    From the looks of the jeep, you seem to be able to tackle this.
    Getting this light bar all completed, and wrapped up weather tight will be interesting I think.

    A couple comments:
    The heatsinking you have listed may not be enough. But you will probably experiment to be sure.

    Contact DIWdiver on this forum.
    He can build you drivers for this. He built some for me for a similar project.
    He is easy to talk to, and you can run 3 LEDS from 1 driver at about $30 each.

    I would recommend moving to at least the 5700K LEDs. Blue (6500K) light on/off road is not easy on the eyes IMO.
    With the potential of over 30,000 lumens, you can afford to step down a bin for good color!

    Good luck, and please keep us updated.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Diablo - Cool man !! I see your avatar now :-)
    Really cool to meet a fellow Jeeper here of all places !
    Specs are long :-) bare with me *hehe*
    Lift - IRO's 7.5" Premium Long Arm with additional 1.5" och JKS ACOS spacers,
    Front axle - Dana30 High Pinion, WJ-knuckle mod, Hydroassist ram, 4.88 gears, ARB locker, IRO's Truss and RCV Performance Orange Dome axles, over axle trackbar.
    Rear axle - Ford 8.8, IRO's Bracket kit for ZJ, 4.88, ARB
    Running 37"x14" R17 Diagonal Iroks on Procomp 8128 alloys.
    My own design of front bumper (rear underway too) and AC - OBA (On Board Air) system almost complete.
    Custom rocksliders with side-steps and a lot of other armor underneath.

    This lightbar will be mounted in that space between the roof and the warning light



    Moddoo - thanks for the tips, appreciate it!
    I thought that 6500K is at the upper limit of White - Cool White
    A number of sources (if I google 6500K) refer to this color temp as Cool white.
    Is it really "blueish"?
    I've already ordered drivers from DIWDiver, only two at this point

    I must do some testing.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* DIWdiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    If you only need the lights at full power when the engine is running, I'd recommend running three LEDs in series with the drivers I sent you. If you shut off the engine they might dim a bit, but the drivers would run much cooler. I wouldn't run a single LED on that driver (but you can with DerWichtel's).

    The problem is that you want 13 LEDs, which is not divisible by two, three, or any other number. Cram 15 in there, and use 5 drivers!

    As far as using a big DC power supply, you'd have to find one surplus to even approach the cost of 5-7 of the drivers you bought. However, surfing eBay you might be able to find a mains-powered 48V-56V supply, and an inverter to drive it, for reasonable cost. Fixed-voltage supplies typically can be adjusted +/- 5-10%, so a 48V supply could probably be adjusted to the 52V you want. You'd have to find one with an adjustable current limit, or perhaps a fixed one that you can depend on. But most fixed-voltage supplies have crude current limits if they have one at all.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Quote Originally Posted by Diman View Post
    Diablo - Cool man !! I see your avatar now :-)
    Really cool to meet a fellow Jeeper here of all places !
    Specs are long :-) bare with me *hehe*
    Lift - IRO's 7.5" Premium Long Arm with additional 1.5" och JKS ACOS spacers,
    Front axle - Dana30 High Pinion, WJ-knuckle mod, Hydroassist ram, 4.88 gears, ARB locker, IRO's Truss and RCV Performance Orange Dome axles, over axle trackbar.
    Rear axle - Ford 8.8, IRO's Bracket kit for ZJ, 4.88, ARB
    Running 37"x14" R17 Diagonal Iroks on Procomp 8128 alloys.
    My own design of front bumper (rear underway too) and AC - OBA (On Board Air) system almost complete.
    Custom rocksliders with side-steps and a lot of other armor underneath.

    This lightbar will be mounted in that space between the roof and the warning light



    Moddoo - thanks for the tips, appreciate it!
    I thought that 6500K is at the upper limit of White - Cool White
    A number of sources (if I google 6500K) refer to this color temp as Cool white.
    Is it really "blueish"?
    I've already ordered drivers from DIWDiver, only two at this point

    I must do some testing.
    VERY nice Jeep Diman! As you know, the build never stops and is still ongoing. Here is a short list of some of my more major mods.

    2001 TJ Sport with 4.0L/NV3550
    -'82 Wagoneer D44 up from with 4.56's, custom "inverted T" steering all DOM tubing and 5/8ths heims by Rustys Offroad, custom 3/8" brackets, Superior Evo 30 spline shafts, LockRight locker, Warm premium hubs
    -Original TJ D44 out back with 4.56's, full case Detroit locker, Superior Evo 30 spline shafts, custom T7075 aluminum 5 on 4.5" to 6 on 5.5" wheel adapters
    -37x13.50x15 bias Pit Bull Rockers for the trail and 35" ATs for the street
    -Savvy Offroad full T6061 corners and rockers
    -Factory refurb 231 t-case with a 4to1 low kit, 2low, super short SYE, Tom Woods drive shaft
    -Rough Country 4" X series short arm
    -Metalcloak frame built front bumper (don't like it at all) with a Superwinch LP8500 with the solenoid box relocated under the hood
    -Rampage rear bumper/tire carrier
    -Viking fastback top (Can't say enough about this top btw)

    I'm a little short in the auxiliary lighting category right now so you are planting some dangerous ideas in my head
    I'm subscribed and watching. Best of luck to you with the build. Tread lightly and stay safe out there.
    Last edited by Diablo_331; 10-26-2011 at 10:46 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Thanks man, you too! Mean Jeep you've got there, I'd love to see it more of it someday :-)

    DIWDiver - you're right of course, a DC-supply if probably an overkill.

    15 Leds means 15 reflectors at 7.3 cm in diameter makes 1095 mm plus some space in-between, I need to measure my roof - stickout in the woods is not a very good thing.

    Most efficient way is of course driving three LEDs on one driver, so the drivers won't have to waste much energy. So I'm listening to you and going for 3 to one ratio.
    Running them with engine off is almost never needed, besides there's that second 2A mode if I for some reason need less light. But it's good to know that it is possible and I will not damage anything by accidentally turning the bar on while engine is off.

    I took a closer look at the LEDs. Contact points are on backside flush with a bit metal plate which I'm sure is for heat transfer purposes.
    This means that I cannot simply mount the LED onto an aluminium surface (Dooh !) So I need stars.

    I've ordered two stars to cover these two first leds and searched for SSR-90s which are essentially SST-90 on star. But I found nothing.
    There's one on DX, but reviews point out that it's a lower bin and 8000k too. I Guess I'm stuck with buying SST-90s and star boards separatelly.
    No big deal, really, but the obvious question is - how do I mount LEDs on stars ?

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* Moddoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    The 6500K tint is considered "cool" by most of the crowd here.
    It is also used with the term "blue" quite often.
    It's really up to your personal preference.
    It's all relative. Turning on the cool white leds and/after your incandescent headlamps will be quite a color shift.

    Most of us around here have moved away from the cool white stuff because it tends to wash out colors and depth perception.
    A warmer temp seems to allow you to see better because it is easier to make out different colors.
    Some guys still love the Cool white lights also.


    The SS"R" products are an LED already professionally reflowed on to a very high quality star.
    http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Luminus-Devices/SSR-90-W57S-R11-GN200/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsyM1rGGtQxrEhjeihMldZv

    I highly recommend the Luminous stars.

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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Thanks man, I've found mouser too. It seems there's even a Swedish division. If I'm that lucky they'll have a stock of stars right here in Sweden.

    What's the difference between GN100 and GN200, I can't find any reference to that type of labeling in datasheet.

    http://www.luminus.com/products/down...20Labeling.pdf

    http://www.luminus.com/products/data..._Datasheet.pdf


    Some newly made changes:
    Front window:
    Glass - bad
    Plexi - not to good either
    Polycarbonate sheet = good
    Ebay has tons of it in various sizes and thicknesses.

    Will probably withstand alot more than glass and easy replaceable too.

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    Flashaholic* DIWdiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Unless you have access to a professional reflow soldering station, or intend to mount them on a copper pedestal, definitely get them on stars.

    100's are 6500K, 200's are 5700K, per the (US) Mouser website.

    +1 on polycarbonate.

    I'd think about going with CST-90 instead. It's the same die, but I think it's on a copper base instead of aluminum. The heatsinking is so much better that they are rated at 13.5A instead of 9A, and they are the same price. Plus they have push-on terminals so you don't have to solder to those boards.

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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    yeah CST-90s would be even better, driving them is a problem though.
    I think I will stick with SSTs for now and not bite more than I can chew
    CST-90s are monstrosities that I definitely will make something of , maybe version 2 of this light bar. But for now SSTs on stars is the way to go, so that I can move forward with the build.

    Ordered three reflectors.. from DX starting slow :-)
    Now the wait begins - will probably take some time for the first batch of parts to arrive.
    Right now I have two SST-90 LEDs, two drivers are on their way, reflectors are ordered and two stars are somewhere in the mail too.

    Friday today, I will start hunting U-chanell next week, there're a few suppliers, the only small issue is that none of them will sell u-channel in lesser than standard 6 meter lengths

    For now have a great weekend you all!
    Last edited by Diman; 10-28-2011 at 12:38 AM.

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    Flashaholic* DIWdiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Quote Originally Posted by Diman View Post
    yeah CST-90s would be even better, driving them is a problem though.
    ...
    CST-90s are monstrosities...
    The monster is the -360 series. The CST-90 is the same die as the SST-90, so will give you the same light at the same drive levels. Actually, since it would probably be cooler, it would give you more light. So no need to drive it higher, but you can if you want even MORE light.

    If you are ever wondering about the die size of luminus LEDs, the numeric part of the part number is the die size in square millimeters, times ten. So any -90 series is 9 square mm, or 3mm x 3mm. The -360 has four of these dice, thus 90x4 = 360.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    hmm allrigt, I understand. Thanks!
    CST-90s cost more for some reason... compared to SSR-90 w65s GN100 at €37 CST is at €57 for w65s GN102. (Mouser)
    Probably due to copper board and added thermistor.
    Strangely the GP version costs less.. being the most effective one...



    One thought : if I order your 10A drivers I'd be running CSTs with more light output at probably the same heat levels compared to SSR stars.... Do I understand this correctly ?

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* DIWdiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Quote Originally Posted by Diman View Post
    One thought : if I order your 10A drivers I'd be running CSTs with more light output at probably the same heat levels compared to SSR stars.... Do I understand this correctly ?
    I've been offline for a while. We had a little snow, you see. The trees still have leaves on, so the snow broke the trees. The trees broke the wires. For some reason CPF won't talk to me while the wires are broken.

    Anyway, thermal issues are not as simple as we'd like them to be, but the short answer is yes, the CST's would run cooler at the higher current.

    Explaination for the science geeks: CSTs at 10A would burn about 38W, and with thermal resistance of 0.92C/W, the die would be about 35 degrees C above the heatsink temperature. SSTs at 8A would burn about 30W, and with a thermal resistance of about 2 C/W, the die would be about 60C above the heatsink temp. But the heatsink temp would be different due to different power levels.

    Let's say you wanted to keep the max die temp to 125C or less. For the SST, you need the heatsink temp 60C below this, or 65C. Say you are running at up to 30C max ambient temp, so your heatsink needs to dissipate 30W at 35 degrees above ambient. For the CST, you need to keep the heatsink no hotter than 90C, or 60C above ambient. That's much easier to do than for the SST.

    I won't show the math, but at higher ambient temperatures, the CSTs advantage is even greater, while at lower temperatures it's smaller.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Some numbers:

    DX-refllector is 7.3cm (73mm) diameter.
    With 1mm space inbetween, 15 reflectors add up to 1111 mm :-)
    That's a maximum width I can put on my Jeep without worrying about stickout.

    As previously stated, using DIWDivers drivers I'll be able to run them in groups of three. = 5 driver boards. (Diw - say otherwise if not true)
    15 LEDs.
    Assuming 9A drive at 13V (well 13.8V but to be on the safe side let's say 13V)
    1 LED = Vf 3.87V, If 9A
    1 Group - 3.87V * 3 = 11.61V, 9A
    5 groups = 9A * 5 = 45A
    45A at 13V = 585W, round up to 600W
    Cable length - roof to distribution center = 3 meters
    Cable area - 3 meters, 600W, 13V, 0.0018 Ohm/mm2/meter = 16 mm2 (gauge 5 I believe)


    Feel free to jump right in if you see that I've missed something or thinking wrong...

  22. #22

    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    This is very cool, please keep us updated on this. I thought about doing something like this but I just don't feel like I have enough knowledge to do so.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    received two drivers today :-)




    I really want to test them now, but I have to either wait for SSRs that I will order in a couple of days, or attempt a reflow soldering of my sst-90 dies onto comex boards.




    I've seen some videos of that being done using a stove and a frying pan. Doesn't seem too complicated - but the lesson is learned (buy pre-soldered stars!!! )

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* DIWdiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Quote Originally Posted by Diman View Post
    Some numbers:
    As previously stated, using DIWDivers drivers I'll be able to run them in groups of three. = 5 driver boards. (Diw - say otherwise if not true)
    15 LEDs.

    Cable area - 3 meters, 600W, 13V, 0.0018 Ohm/mm2/meter = 16 mm2 (gauge 5 I believe)

    Feel free to jump right in if you see that I've missed something or thinking wrong...
    Yes, 3 leds per driver should work. I've never tried this, but it should work.

    5 ga seems like overkill. Let's see what the numbers say...

    I think it's safe to assume you will have 13.8V while the motor is running, probably higher. I would plan on the LEDs dropping 4.0V each, as my limited experience is that they are a little worse than rated. You need 0.3V for the driver, so a total of 4.0*3 + 0.3 = 12.3V. That means you can lose 1.5V in the wires. You don't say whether 3m is battery to LEDs or battery to LEDs and back, making the total wire length 6m.

    I'll assume it's 6m total. You have a max resistance of 1.5V/45A = 0.0333 ohms. Divide that by the length, and you have .0333/6 = .0056 ohms/m. 12 ga is 0.0052 ohms/ft, so it should be okay for the voltage drop. 12 ga wire is 3.31 mm^2. But I wouldn't put 45A in a 12 ga wire, in the US we'd use 8 ga for this. 8 ga wire is 8.37 mm^2, and that should be plenty. Basically, any wire that's safe for 45A is okay for the voltage drop.

  25. #25
    Flashaholic HB021's Avatar
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    Tjenare! Nice project you've got going here, I'm also interested in making a similar project. But man 15x SST-90 that's insane! I'd love to see a first person view 34000(?) lumen led power! This is going to be interesting...

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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    Cool, another Swed here! Thanks :-) I love that "insane" thing! Och tack förresten!

    Now for some updates:
    Soldering LEDs on stars seem to have worked - but I never want to do that again, I was actually nervous *hahaha*
    Ruining €37 LED is not my idea of fun...


    Running 3A testing - damn that thing is bright... I guess the photo cannot really tell the brightness






    DX reflectors (3 out of 15 ) arrived a couple days ago



    Very nice finish, all aluminum, and dimension are exactly what dx-site says.
    The opening at the bottom fits around led die and the hole edges sit on top of that little frame flap u-shaped corner thingys.. not touching the green board.
    I tried to take a picture, but it kept getting all blurry because of the reflector.





    I'm in process of modelling the front frame, tried Sketchup first, but apparently it's impossible to export a model in any format suitable for CNC.
    So I have to remodell the whole thing in some other software - which means learning curve :-).
    The idea is that 7.3 cm holes are machined 2mm down into the frame, then contracted to 7.1cm so an 1mm edge forms on which reflectors will seat. These will then be secured in place by
    polycarbonate front window. It's all in my head now, but I'll post a picture as soon as I have one :-)

  27. #27

    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's



    Cant wait to see the finish results! Keep us posted!
    Fenix LD10 R4, LD20 R5, PD31 R5 :: Olight M30, M3X :: Klarus XT10, XT20, P1C, P1A, P2A, XT1C, XT1A, XT2A :: JetBeam Jet-I-Pro Cree R2 v3 :: ITP A1, A2, A3 :: Some Solarforce P60 hosts and other stuff.

  28. #28
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    Why do you need that big reflectors, do you want a lot of throw? With 34k(yes truly insane) lumen in addition to your other lights wouldn't it be better with smaller reflectors for less space and more flood? This is for off road in the woods right? I think 34k lumen flood light will go very very far anyway! You could also make the hole light bar a lot smaller then. I just built a 4x Cree XM-L using 18mm(diameter) x 12mm(height) and I love the beampattern. So I'm going to buy 16 more for my car hehe!
    Anyway I'll keep looking a close eye to your project and see how things turn out, keep the work up!
    Last edited by HB021; 11-19-2011 at 08:08 PM.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Project off-road lightbar featuring SST-90's

    well, I see you point.
    When I started thinking about making this bar, I did some research. Leds, drivers, combinations of both, and finally optics and reflectors.
    SST-90 was an easy decision, being the badass it is :-)
    I remember asking a question on a Swedish electronics forum about what I could use to drive 40 SSC-P7 Leds
    I got mugged down by HID-folks and how impractical that would be.. heat, power waste etc. etc. (Still want to make that one tho... maybe next project will be 40 P7s )
    Not that HIDs are not good, they are fantastic, I have nothing against HID, but it's a different technology. I want to do LEDs, and it requires knowing the limitations.

    Anyway... got little ot here (it's early in the morning here)
    There're optics and reflectors (and maybe both, but I don't see the point.), right? I've read almost all threads here at cpf (and other places) about optics vs reflectors and
    decided to go with reflectors on this one.
    There're no smaller reflectors for SST-90 (off the shelf)
    There are smaller aluminum reflectors that can be modded to fit over an SST-90, but they require work. As I understand with reflector of this size I get both throw and usable spill.
    Spill combined from 15 LEDs will probably be more than enough for immediate surroundings, say up to ten meters in front of the car, and the beams will then light up everything else.

    regarding bar size, it's actually a pro - large bar = more surface = better heatsinking.
    It's an uncharted territory here, you see.. I'm actually not sure of anything right now. But we will see, right ?

  30. #30
    Flashaholic HB021's Avatar
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    Default

    Yes we will hehe, I have 200w HID which I like but LED is the shit now! They're just jealous maybe? Why P7 and not XML? XML is like 20% more effective and smaller. About the reflector yes the spill combined from 15 SST-90 + 75mm reflector will probably give a good wide view anyway :-) but have you tried one LED with the reflector and looked at the beam pattern? Trustfire X6 uses a setup like that and it looks very "throwy".

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