330 lumens 60 watt equivalent ??

[Stephen7372]

Are these any good?

Surely 360 lumens can't be the same as a 60 watt light bulb.


http://www.ledgiant.co.uk/led-gls-bu...-gls-led-bulbs

[Harold_B]

They are confusing the A19 form factor with the typical 60W bulb. An equivalent to an incandescent 60W will have about 800-850 lumens output.

[xul]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy
5 to 18 lumens/w.

[Harold_B]

xul - Don't quite get your point. How about a cross reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb

[xul]

xul - Don't quite get your point. How about a cross reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb

Your reference gives 15 L/W for a 60W bulb. 330L/60W = 5.5 L/W so the OP's bulb is not very efficacious by the standards applied to incands.

[LEDninja]

The light from that kind of light bulb goes out the front. So we have 360 lumens coming out the front.

An incandescent lightbulb is/was omnidirectional. At about 840 lumens half 420 lumens go backwards, half 420 lumens go forwards.

So if you point both bulbs at an object the light hitting the object is similar. Again if both bulbs are in recessed fittings output is similar. The can absorbs the light going backwards from an incandescent so only half the light comes out of the fixture.

But if the bulbs are in table or floor lamps, the 60W bulb will put 840 lumens into the room, that LED bulb only 360. But the 60W bulb puts light in all directions including sideways at an object. That LED would shoot its light up toward the ceiling and any objects in the room will only get indirect light. In this situation the LED bulb is way dimmer than the 60W.

Here is a comparison between a 40W and a Zetalux 2 300 lumen.



Here are some bulbs available earlier this year in Canada:

from left to right:
Philips 7W 155 lumen 40W equivalent, from a year previous;
Philips 8W 450 lumen 40W equivalent, hemispherical beam pattern;
Philips 9W 470 lumen 40W equivalent, forward beam pattern;
Philips 12W 800 lumen 60W equivalent, sideways beam pattern.

Note the difference a year makes. 155 lumens to 450/470 lumens for almost the same wattage in.
It is almost not worth looking at online stores at this point. They tend to have the older dimmer bulbs in stock.

My other concern is the colour temperature of the bulbs in your links are not stated. There is a big difference between cool white (which gives a higher lumen # for advertising purposes) and warm white.

My camera's automatic white balance can not figure it out correctly but the relative tint difference is very noticeable to the eyes. Its more like cool white fluorescent tubes vs incadescent bulbs to the eyes.

EDIT
If you need a true 60W equivalent get the bulb on the extreme right in my picture above.
A 230V B22 version is available through amazon.co.uk

[Lynx_Arc]

actually it is 360lumens/5 watts or 72 lumens/watt which is not bad (if actually accurate), but nothing spectacular compared to the 50-60 lumens/watt CFLs average at.

[Harold_B]

It would be one thing if they were promoting the product for the lumens per Watt performance, or if they were trying to leverage the directionality of the output as an advantage, but they need to be careful if the site is promoting it as a 60 Watt equivalent vs a 60 Watt replacement. That would be blatantly misleading (and that's not just my opinion - they should check into the Lights of America lawsuit if they are going to take that marketing approach in the States). It's a hard job creating a description that is understandable to the general public and one that is technically correct but not impossible.

[Lynx_Arc]

It would be one thing if they were promoting the product for the lumens per Watt performance, or if they were trying to leverage the directionality of the output as an advantage, but they need to be careful if the site is promoting it as a 60 Watt equivalent vs a 60 Watt replacement. That would be blatantly misleading (and that's not just my opinion - they should check into the Lights of America lawsuit if they are going to take that marketing approach in the States). It's a hard job creating a description that is understandable to the generable public and one that is technically correct but not impossible.

most LED lights do not promote their lights based upon lumens/watt but instead they base it on savings over incan equivalent lights. This avoids them having to directly compete with CFL and other fluorescent lights.

[LEDninja]

they should check into the Lights of America lawsuit if they are going to take that marketing approach in the States).

Sorry bud but that website is in the UK. US laws don't apply there. And the US DOE could not care less as the bulbs are 230V 50Hz and use a B22 connector. Look at the base of the bulb. Does not fit any lamps on this side of the pond.

[Harold_B]

Yes, I am aware they are being marketed in the UK. I would assume that they are as astute regarding getting screwed as we are. My point being that should they take that approach if they do choose to come here then that could be a problem. As I see it I was looking to give them the benefit of the doubt but having double checked the site it does say 60 W equivalent. It is not.

Notice that it is a Toshiba bulb. Link to the corporate brochure: http://www.toshiba.eu/newlighting/Gl...epslanguage=en

Toshiba states that their bulb is a "perfect replacement for conventional" bulbs. Doesn't say a word about being a direct replacement for a 60 W. That's the reseller.

[xul]

Lights of America lawsuit

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2010/09/lightsofamerica.shtm
I'd say LOA is not politically connected.

I was illegally forced out of an agency similar to the FTC for doing what they said was my job. This was long before I knew about
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture
Newspaper code words for this idea are "too cozy with the industry it regulates".

[LEDninja]

Yes, I am aware they are being marketed in the UK. I would assume that they are as astute regarding getting screwed as we are. My point being that should they take that approach if they do choose to come here then that could be a problem. As I see it I was looking to give them the benefit of the doubt but having double checked the site it does say 60 W equivalent. It is not.

Notice that it is a Toshiba bulb. Link to the corporate brochure: http://www.toshiba.eu/newlighting/Gl...epslanguage=en

Toshiba states that their bulb is a "perfect replacement for conventional" bulbs. Doesn't say a word about being a direct replacement for a 60 W. That's the reseller.

If you go through the North American websites you will find many do the same thing. (Except C Crane, EarthLED and a few others who actually know what they are doing.) Particularly for spotlights.

I can say my 1 watt flashlight is brighter than a 100W bulb and when challenged stick a lux meter in the flashlights hotspot at 10 feet and place the meter 10 feet from the 100W bulb. The 1W flashlight wins every time. But try to light up the room!!! But I did NOT SAY my 1W flashlight lights up a room better than a 100W bulb.

[xul]

stick a lux meter in the flashlights hotspot at 10 feet and place the meter 10 feet from the 100W bulb.

14 L/W x 100W = 1400 L, divided by 4Pi = ~110 cp

lamp with
110	candles [I] luminous intensity
is placed
3	meter [R] from a surface
What is the surface illuminance [E]?
E=I/(R^2)
12	=E in lux

Is that what you measured?