The SureFire P2X-B "Fury" 500lu flashlight thread

[Litbobber]

Thanks in response to the pocketclip question guys.

[kyhunter1]

Felt a little brave and ran my Fury on 2 AW RCR123's. Ran just fine and cut off after ~ 27 minutes. It get's ~ 40 minutes on a AW17650. It is noticeably brighter on the RCR's, which tells that it is dropping out of regulation some on the 17650. The guy that asked about the Fury and extenders may not have such a bad idea seeing that running the Fury on 2x17500's could be a real possibility. What do you all think?

[Zippy1685]

After three months on backorder, my Fury finally arrived from Battery Junction. I must say that I feel a little disappointed.

This is a premium flashlight at a premium price, and yet the quality is quite a bit lower than some other flashlights I own. For one thing, the threads on the tail cap weren't polished very well, meaning it's rough when you unscrew it. This doesn't diminish one iota from the functioning of the light, but I would expect better finishing for the price.

Secondly, my LED is not set dead center in the reflector. It sits to one side. It's not enough to really effect the output, but c'mon.

Thirdly, yes the lens is glass, but it's not very thick. I could definitely see it cracking from a fall.

Finally, I am very disappointed with the green tint, especially noticeable in the low power setting. I have come to the conclusion that this is not the actual LED output itself. The problem is that the entire circuit board underneath is visible when you look down the reflector. The green tint is caused by the light reflecting off the green circuit board. Even the reflector looks green when you peer down into it with illumination behind you. To me this is unforgivable in a premium flashlight. All they had to do was make the reflector small enough to reveal only the LED lens or cover the green board with something. Of course, this is also Cree's fault for using such a bright green board in the first place. Why not use something neutrally colored?

I just cannot forgive these lapses in quality and design in a premium flashlight. I have an Inova X03 which beats the pants off the Fury in every single quality aspect, though the output is considerably less. It has none of the above issues and retails for almost 1/3 the price of the Fury. C'mon Surefire, you can do better.

[bfksc]

After three months on backorder, my Fury finally arrived...I must say that I feel a little disappointed...I am very disappointed with the green tint

This is something that has been annoying me lately too. I have been considering the P2X as I like the UI (no twisty action) and the high output. But I'm not happy with the tint of many LEDs since the XP-G emitter came along. I have a $15 cheapie light from Home Depot with a CREE emitter that has a nice even white tint, not cool, not warm, not neutral either, just a clean white tint. Yet every light I've bought over $50 has a green tint, including XP-G R5 CW, XP-G R4 NW, and XM-L T5 NW. A friend had the Quark XP-G S2 and it was so off tint it was like the green from an RGB emitter! To hear that a $155 (CDN) Surefire has a green tinted emitter in the Fury is the nail in the coffin for me. I won't be buying one without first checking the tint. In fact, I have now sworn off Quark lights for the same reason. I recently bought a Quark X 123x2 in Neutral White and it looks like a regular cool white with a green tint. I'm actually concerned that the emitter is NOT a T5 NW as it should be, and since there is no marking on the head there is no way to know if I got a CW instead of a NW except to compare with other white lights (I'm into photography so I have colour charts that help to determine actual colour rendition of lights). So now I don't know what to buy...tint lottery within a flux range is one thing. But it seems there are more green than white tints these days, and I'm not paying good money for a puke-green light anymore. I like neutral white actually, but if it's a green NW I'm not interested. For the price of the Surefire lights, you'd think they would carefully select tint bins and make sure they're consistent. But if they don't, then why pay so much for a light that doesn't satisfy.
YMMV.

[Zippy1685]

I'm really not sure it's the actual tint of the light. When you look dead center in the beam against a wall on low power setting, the light is as white as most, but it's surrounded by a green tinted halo. This is why I think it has more to do with not covering the green circuit board underneath. The Inova X03 I used for comparison has a much narrower opening at the bottom so that only the LED lens can be seen and not the board underneath. Several cheapie flashlights I own use a mirrored reflector to cover the board.

The X03 definitely has no discernible tint to me. It's a brilliant white. When I compare the center of the beam of the X03 vs the Fury, the light is similar. The difference is that the Fury beam is surrounded by a pronounced green halo. Maybe the XM-L gets too hot to use a cover over the board. If that's the case, then Cree should use a different colored board. It's not like green is the only color in which you can buy boards. If heat isn't the problem then it is Surefire's mistake for not covering it in some way.

Overall, I still think the Fury is an impressive flashlight. The green tint is not pronounced in high power mode, but it's annoying at low setting. I also don't think it's made like junk, but definitely not up to what I think Surefire standards should be.

[Glock 22]

That's awesome. After you posting this. I also got up the nerve and tried the 2 AW RCR123's. I done two burn time tests and both times I got ~32 minutes at full output before it cut off, no regulation dropping. There in it right now. Thanks kyhunter1 for taking a chance on your Fury, with these rechargeables.

Felt a little brave and ran my Fury on 2 AW RCR123's. Ran just fine and cut off after ~ 27 minutes. It get's ~ 40 minutes on a AW17650. It is noticeably brighter on the RCR's, which tells that it is dropping out of regulation some on the 17650. The guy that asked about the Fury and extenders may not have such a bad idea seeing that running the Fury on 2x17500's could be a real possibility. What do you all think?

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

Thanks kyhunter1 for taking a chance on your Fury, with these rechargeables.

Now you've done it!

Standby for the usual CPF admonitions about using rechargeables on SureFires. You'll void your warranty, you'll burn out the emitter, you'll go blind etc. Unless, of course, you use the special unreleased SF rechargeables in which case everything is fine.

Since the current levels on the XP-G lights are approaching the limits of the batteries, I'm more comfortable with the single cell rechargeable configuration when it is an option, e.g. the 17670 on the Fury.

[kyhunter1]

Surefire rechargeablility has always been sublime, that's why I took matters into my own hands. AW batteries all the way for me when not using primaries. If it ever burns out, no big deal as long as I have the cash to mod it. A burnt out Surefire and voided warranty is a very good excuse for modding. It will be a much better light in the end. Copper heatsink, different reflector, new driver, maybe even a optic, premium bin and tint emmitter, etc., you all get the picture. With the larger head, maybe a quad XPG or even a triple XML.

[Helmut.G]

If a flashlight uses a regulated step-down (voltage-lowering) driver like nearly all LED 2xCR123 lights do, it will handle the higher voltage of 2xLi-Ion (or 3xCR123) just fine in almost all cases. (I thought this is common knowledge around here).

If you try it and the brightness and function is apparently the same then there's no reason whatsoever to worry about premature failure.

You would definitely notice after a short time if the light couldn't handle it.

[TEEJ]

I guess I can take out the Primaries and swap in some Secondaries.

[Robin24k]

OK Robin, hope you are right and SF delivers whether or not they put them on the website!

Got a little update...

http://www.surefire.com/batteries/sf...arger-kit.html

http://www.surefire.com/batteries/2-...batteries.html

[Glock 22]

Thanks Robin24k for the info. Ordered a set.

Got a little update...

http://www.surefire.com/batteries/sf...arger-kit.html

http://www.surefire.com/batteries/2-...batteries.html

[67RS/SSx2]

Please indulge the newb question (notice this is my first post). I recently purchased my first REAL flashlight, a SF G2X Pro. I absolutely love the light! I only use it for utilitarian/general purpose.

I read this thread from post #1 and registered to this forum because I have an itchin' for a SF Fury. My question is where do you find a SF serial number? I do not see one on my G2X Pro.

Thanks,

[Glock 22]

The serial number can be found on the fury, on the side where the Surefire logo is. For instance my serial number is A69242. Hope this answers your question.

I read this thread from post #1 and registered to this forum because I have an itchin' for a SF Fury. My question is where do you find a SF serial number? I do not see one on my G2X Pro.
Thanks,

[Toohotruk]

G2Xs have no serial number.

[TEEJ]

OK, I swapped in some RCR's and the Fury ran like a champ...no fried drivers, etc.

[deklan]

OK, I swapped in some RCR's and the Fury ran like a champ...no fried drivers, etc.

Interesting! Any visible increase in output?

[GhostMeat]

Surefire rechargeablility has always been sublime, that's why I took matters into my own hands. AW batteries all the way for me when not using primaries. If it ever burns out, no big deal as long as I have the cash to mod it. A burnt out Surefire and voided warranty is a very good excuse for modding. It will be a much better light in the end. Copper heatsink, different reflector, new driver, maybe even a optic, premium bin and tint emmitter, etc., you all get the picture. With the larger head, maybe a quad XPG or even a triple XML.

I am also very interested in using rechargeables with my Fury and noted a few of your posts about using AW RCR123s. I had put in some crummy protected Tenergy RCR123s and the light only stays on for a few minutes and then, I think, the batteries protection circuit shuts them off. I think that's what's happening.

A buddy of mine is absolutely convinced that there's very little danger to the Fury LED chip (since a CREE XM-L can be driven pretty hard?) and wants to throw in some of his better 3.7v batteries. I'm no electrical engineer, but that sounds like a bad idea, right? Just because we can use 3.7v RCRs in other CREE XM-L lights doesn't mean we can put them in Surefire's, right? I take it there's something else inside these Surefire lights that gets burnt out?

Regarding your earlier post about using AWs and getting 27 minutes of runtime out of your Fury... I just ordered some AW RCR123s for another light of mine -- what is it about AWs that allows you to run your Fury for that long? Is the battery itself smart in that it lowers its voltage?

[pjandyho]

I am also very interested in using rechargeables with my Fury and noted a few of your posts about using AW RCR123s. I had put in some crummy protected Tenergy RCR123s and the light only stays on for a few minutes and then, I think, the batteries protection circuit shuts them off. I think that's what's happening.

A buddy of mine is absolutely convinced that there's very little danger to the Fury LED chip (since a CREE XM-L can be driven pretty hard?) and wants to throw in some of his better 3.7v batteries. I'm no electrical engineer, but that sounds like a bad idea, right? Just because we can use 3.7v RCRs in other CREE XM-L lights doesn't mean we can put them in Surefire's, right? I take it there's something else inside these Surefire lights that gets burnt out?

Regarding your earlier post about using AWs and getting 27 minutes of runtime out of your Fury... I just ordered some AW RCR123s for another light of mine -- what is it about AWs that allows you to run your Fury for that long? Is the battery itself smart in that it lowers its voltage?

Yes you are right. Just because XM-L can take the added voltage does not necessarily mean that the electronic circuitry could. Unless Surefire specify the voltage range of the electronics within, it is more or less a "use it at your own risk" kind of situation. Just take for example, many have tried RCR123s in the E2DL and claimed that it works but a small handful have reported problems when running RCR123. I personally have tried running RCR123 in mine and have no problems but I am not sure if prolonged usage would cause any issues later on. Only you can weigh the worthiness of the risk involved.

[Robin24k]

It could be shutting off due to the current draw (it's about 1.2A), which would be an issue with the batteries. We got 30 minutes of runtime with SureFire's LFP123A's, so you might want to take a look at those. They're much safer than 3.7V Li-Ion, but do require a special charger.

[kyhunter1]

Spot on.

Yes you are right. Just because XM-L can take the added voltage does not necessarily mean that the electronic circuitry could. Unless Surefire specify the voltage range of the electronics within, it is more or less a "use it at your own risk" kind of situation. Just take for example, many have tried RCR123s in the E2DL and claimed that it works but a small handful have reported problems when running RCR123. I personally have tried running RCR123 in mine and have no problems but I am not sure if prolonged usage would cause any issues later on. Only you can weigh the worthiness of the risk involved.

I caution you to use at your own risk and understand that a damaged light is a real possibility. OTH, mine appears to have zero issues handling the two AW cells. We have figured out that the Fury appears to have a buck circuit. Buck circuit's are typically safe to 9 volts, and with the Fury's XML too, there should not be any problems using the rcr's with it. If it were a boost, then 2xrcr's is a no go. As far as the runtime difference, it's all about using quality cells. AW cells have higher actual mah capacities and can be driven to a higher current drain for longer than your typical "crappy brand" rcr cells.

I am also very interested in using rechargeables with my Fury and noted a few of your posts about using AW RCR123s. I had put in some crummy protected Tenergy RCR123s and the light only stays on for a few minutes and then, I think, the batteries protection circuit shuts them off. I think that's what's happening.

A buddy of mine is absolutely convinced that there's very little danger to the Fury LED chip (since a CREE XM-L can be driven pretty hard?) and wants to throw in some of his better 3.7v batteries. I'm no electrical engineer, but that sounds like a bad idea, right? Just because we can use 3.7v RCRs in other CREE XM-L lights doesn't mean we can put them in Surefire's, right? I take it there's something else inside these Surefire lights that gets burnt out?

Regarding your earlier post about using AWs and getting 27 minutes of runtime out of your Fury... I just ordered some AW RCR123s for another light of mine -- what is it about AWs that allows you to run your Fury for that long? Is the battery itself smart in that it lowers its voltage?

[TEEJ]

Interesting! Any visible increase in output?

It looked ~ the same to me....~ 500 lumens....but I didn't have the lumen measuring device handy to be sure.

On the other hand the Klarus XT11 I did the same swap on to test jumped from a stepped down ~ 500 L on an 18650, to a stepped down 850 L on the RCRs (I don't know the pre-stepped down/turbo #'s)....but LOOKED a hell of a lot brighter visually so the lumen measurement done merely gave an empirical # for the brightness.


So, running the Fury on RCR's will be to avoid buying tons of primaries for it, rather than for performance. The Fury's beam is REALLY useful, a nice combination of throw and flood. I like it a lot.

[kyhunter1]

A very useful bright light with a excellent beam. RCR's save money. When carrying my Fury, I always keep a tube with two primaries in my pocket for back up if the protection circuit cuts off with the RCR's. As far as performance, the Fury does not drop in brightness at all when using the RCR's till the abrupt cut off. Brightness does fall off some with primaries before it completely goes out of regulation. You will have the Lo mode for a while till the cells are completely drained which is an advantage with using primaries over the RCR's.

.....
So, running the Fury on RCR's will be to avoid buying tons of primaries for it, rather than for performance. The Fury's beam is REALLY useful, a nice combination of throw and flood. I like it a lot.

[deklan]

It looked ~ the same to me....~ 500 lumens....but I didn't have the lumen measuring device handy to be sure.

On the other hand the Klarus XT11 I did the same swap on to test jumped from a stepped down ~ 500 L on an 18650, to a stepped down 850 L on the RCRs (I don't know the pre-stepped down/turbo #'s)....but LOOKED a hell of a lot brighter visually so the lumen measurement done merely gave an empirical # for the brightness.


So, running the Fury on RCR's will be to avoid buying tons of primaries for it, rather than for performance. The Fury's beam is REALLY useful, a nice combination of throw and flood. I like it a lot.

Thanks for the reply!

[Robin24k]

I don't know about 3.7V Li-Ion, but from my runtime test of the Fury, it seems that LiFePO4 is initially 3% brighter, with the gap widening as the cells discharge.

[lightphysics]

If a flashlight uses a regulated step-down (voltage-lowering) driver like nearly all LED 2xCR123 lights do, it will handle the higher voltage of 2xLi-Ion (or 3xCR123) just fine in almost all cases. (I thought this is common knowledge around here).

If you try it and the brightness and function is apparently the same then there's no reason whatsoever to worry about premature failure.

You would definitely notice after a short time if the light couldn't handle it.

I agree. Unfortunately, there is a lot of misinformation here. Basically its easy to ensure that you are not pushing too much watts out of that flashlight. I recently did this test with a buddies flashlight and he did not like it. He is convinced that if surefire says do not use RCR123, you will damage it. If I was running surefire, I may say that too since many of the RCRs that are cheap, will overcharge and damage your flashlight and they do not want to deal with the headache, nor the fact that RCRs break down eventually and they have to deal with the support. Anyway, I only use rechargeables, but make sure the flashlight can take it.

Here is the test you can do to confirm I am right. Go to my post here. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...8%28BOOM%29%29

[lightphysics]

The battery does not drop its voltage if smart. The voltage drop (if there is any) will be due to your smart circuit.

[lightphysics]

Spot on.




I caution you to use at your own risk and understand that a damaged light is a real possibility. OTH, mine appears to have zero issues handling the two AW cells. We have figured out that the Fury appears to have a buck circuit. Buck circuit's are typically safe to 9 volts, and with the Fury's XML too, there should not be any problems using the rcr's with it. If it were a boost, then 2xrcr's is a no go. As far as the runtime difference, it's all about using quality cells. AW cells have higher actual mah capacities and can be driven to a higher current drain for longer than your typical "crappy brand" rcr cells.

I am surprised to see all the experts say so much without any scientific backup. At least you (kyhunter1) have touched on what is important unlike many here. The key as you say is the "circuit". I tested the 2012 XM-L Fury and the circuit will sense the extra volts. Then drop the amount of Amps drawn. Hence compensate for the Watts. In fact, many THINK that running the higher voltage will give them more lumens and while this may be the case in some other flashlights, this IS NOT the case in the Fury.

Here is Why?
The lumens can be measured by measuring your Watts used. Refer to my post here to do your own measurement. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...00mah-((BOOM))

If you measure your Fury, you will see that the actual measured Amps will be lower when using rechargeables with higher voltage. Multiply that number by your volts and you will have your Watts. Then refer to the cree specs http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cr...g/XLampXML.pdf and do the math or go to link above to see details of the math.

The circuit of most of the the XM-Ls ranges from 8.7 to 12.4 volts unless you are getting knockoffs. So your are right in that it is safe. About runtime, you are right again as the runtime will be directly related to your battery milliamps stored. Another factor that comes into play is that the "crapy brands" are suppose to be made up of old laptop batteries. I have no proof of this, but if true then this would explain why the shorter life.

Here is Why?
Batteries that are made out of carbon and lithium use an atomic bond which translates into a lot of energy. For eg. the old car battery (lead and acid) can store only 25 watt-hours per kilogram while the lithium battery can store 150 watt hours per 1kg or 2.2 lbs. Without getting into the detail of the electrons and how they work, these batteries start denaturing or degrading as time passes. Heat is among one factor that you break them. So if you use these rechargeables in a flashlight, heat is directly reducing its life while disposables are used once. Lithium-ion batteries loose about 5 yo 10 percent charge per month compared to 20 percent for nickel metal hydride. In the 4.1 volt batteries that are protected, self discharge will lead to circuit getting cut off between 2.4 and 2.8. This will make your battery fail. Except SOME chargers have a boost function to restart these batteries that seem to be dead. One good and cheap one that I use is the Eneloop (for AA). Most cheaper chargers will do that, but I only use the cheap chargers to "wake up" the battery. Then use the smart chargers. Another thing I recommend is to look at is how far you discharge. The less you discharge, the longer their life.

[kyhunter1]

Thanks for your scientific reply. This info really confirms my findings with the FURY.

[Justin Case]

SureFire may also release a single-output version of the Fury (P2X-A) with simply the 500 lumen output.

The current Fury can be mod'ed for single mode (high) without having to disassemble the head or swap the driver.