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Thread: Dedicated throwers

  1. #1111

    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
    WOW thats crazy I wonder how they found out about it so fast?
    Well I'm sure the one in question is on these forums quite often but there is also a major contributor to this thread that has regular communication with said individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
    Ok I was just wondering, for ashperic lights I don't care but it is still important (like the 7G5 vs Deree light) but in a reflectored light it makes a difference what the spill looks like. The main reason I'm wondering is that I already have a TN31 and am thinking about getting rid of it for one of urs.
    It is around 20-25% reduction in total output but in practice is not really noticeable as the the human eye is limited on perceiving changes unless they are fairly significant. The neutral tint also aids in rendering objects better which makes up for any loss in lumen output as far as I am concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
    Yeah My first thought was that they would copy it but other than the ThruNite there $20 lights even if they spent the money and analyzed and copied your thermal paste and heat mods I doubt they would be able to get it made under $80 and they wouldn't check there LED's and stuff so they would have a huge variance in performance. They probably just wanna see what all the fuss is about. The only thing I would worry about is them copying your de-doming proses if there are any hints to how you get it done in one of your lights.
    Don't be so sure. Remember that they can pay someone a fraction of the money it takes me to do this and make money. The person in question makes very nice lights. If they figure it out they will do it I guarantee you. If they do that it leaves me up a creek and with no way to fund the really interesting projects that everyone is dying to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
    One more question (sorry haha) Do you warranty these lights at all, mainly the ThurNite sense I doubt the others even have a warranty department? 2 things I'm worried about. 1. Just random small things like a switch going bad or spring coming off and the company looking at it and not wanting to touch it because of the mods even if it was out of warranty and I offered to pay I doubt they would want to fix it and 2. The LED, I know you test these and run them at what you have deemed and tested to be safe levels but if one goes dim or poof you can be sure that the manufacturer wont touch it.
    I suppose I do need to put something official up. Warranties are covered by me. Basically what I have always done is that if there is any way possible to fix it I will do it for free including the parts. All I ask is that the shipping is paid both directions. Unless it is DOA or something, which is highly unlikely, and I would then cover the shipping as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by BLUE LED View Post
    They are going to take it apart to ascertain the improvements that you have made. Then calculate to see if it is economically viable to implement some of the improvements.
    You are darn right they will. And they would have the new and improved version out the next day.

  2. #1112

    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    It is around 20-25% reduction in total output but in practice is not really noticeable as the the human eye is limited on perceiving changes unless they are fairly significant. The neutral tint also aids in rendering objects better which makes up for any loss in lumen output as far as I am concerned.
    ok thx

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    I suppose I do need to put something official up. Warranties are covered by me. Basically what I have always done is that if there is any way possible to fix it I will do it for free including the parts. All I ask is that the shipping is paid both directions. Unless it is DOA or something, which is highly unlikely, and I would then cover the shipping as well.
    Ok that makes me feel a lot safer I will be buying the TN31 and maybe another one too but I'm saving up for something special right now in the throw dept if nobody else grabs it before I get the cash. *cough*16*cough*million lux*cough cough*

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    Don't be so sure. Remember that they can pay someone a fraction of the money it takes me to do this and make money. The person in question makes very nice lights. If they figure it out they will do it I guarantee you. If they do that it leaves me up a creek and with no way to fund the really interesting projects that everyone is dying to see.


    You are darn right they will. And they would have the new and improved version out the next day.
    File for a patent on the internals? Don't worry to much. Unless they significantly improved on your technology and come out with a whole new light or something I'm pretty sure most people on here wouldn't be to happy with them just like Niteye. A couple of company's have gotten stuff stolen from them like FourSevens but to steal from an individual that makes custom stuff on his own time and can't afford to patent every thing, is not very well received. I mean stock do these light even come with lube on the o rings or AR coated lenses or any of that? I read in a review that they don't even have a O-ring holding the lenses in its just siting there, not even water resistant in the slightest. If they wanted to copy are thermal mods they would have to start making semi quality lights in the first place like Xeno or Shinning beam. I think there is a reason only small custom shops do de-domes.
    Last edited by ScaryFatKidGT; 09-04-2012 at 03:46 PM.
    Fenix LD01 R4, E05 R4, PD31, TK20, TK35, E11, Jetbeam BC25, RRT-0, Klarus NT20, iTP A3 R5, A3 Ti S2, 4Sevens Preon 1, Quark X 123^2, Sunwayman V10R Ti, Surefire G2X Tactical, ThruNite TN31, Mag-Lite XL50, Mag 2D XP-E

  3. #1113

    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    We need pictures.

  4. #1114
    Flashaholic Draven451's Avatar
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    Default

    Hi Michael,

    I don't like the idea of some large company/manufacturer purchasing your lights to reverse engineer your technology and then sell products utilizing all of your hard work.

    I was reading a thread here a couple days ago about the jetbeam, niteye & systemax issue. Also how one of these companies has produced a light very similar to Data's spy 007. Well really blatantly ripped off his design.

    What can you do to protect yourself?
    "Light up the Darkness"

  5. #1115

    Default

    I agree. The whole idea is really aggravating. Not to mention there tends to be real problems tying to get some countries to enforce patent laws. There are a ton of obvious rip offs originating from China with blatant disregard for American patents with little or no consequences. You have to have big $ just to be heard and the little guy has basically no recourse. I hope Saabluster doesn't end up on that end of things.
    (Surefire G2 R2 aw rcr123's) (Solarforce L2P MC-E aw rcr123's) ( Nitecore EC1) (Dereelight DBS V3 R2 SMO aw 18650) (2D Mag09 FM deep vlop reflector 3 aw 26500's) ( POB Vector 5000k bulb)(Maxa Beam Gen3)

  6. #1116
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Michael, What is Patentable about your mods? Do you have some new Patentable technology or are you just doing mods that the manufacturers haven't been willing to do themselves? There is a Huge difference folks. Unless you have something patentable you are SOL if somebody else decides to do what you do. Just because you do something well, doesn't give you exclusive rights to do it. We live in a competitive free-market. You must compete. Thats what makes us great. Provide good service and an edge. If you do that you will do well. In my business I have competitors. Just because I am the first to do something doesn't mean I have a right that nobody else has. They will eventually know what I'm doing. Sorry, but thats the law of nature and life. You must discover what the thing is that makes you best. And hopefully there is an advantage you have over the manufacturers. As for the statement "You must have big $ or no recourse" Not true. In fact it is the opposite now. If you have Big$ you are vulnerable in our Tort legal system. If you have a Patent infringement case and some attorney can score big$ from someone with big$....they are at the disadvantage. Hell, there are attourneys now who sue banks for a $10 charge that customers got charged illegally.

    Perhaps De-Doming LED's is not worth the effort for mass-production Manufacturers? Then agin....maybe they have the unit numbers where they can afford a custom run directly from Cree without domes? Did you discover "De-doming"? (Actually I did that by accident )
    As for the Thermal adhesive....It is known there are T Adhesives now that can offer comparable heat transfer to soldered on LED's. Is this your own patented adhesive? Did you invent the Light Collar?

    Who was the first in the CPF community to offer hot-rodded P60 drop-ins? Should nobody else but them be allowed to provide that service? Who was the first to do the XPG-Triples? Oveready? Should VanIsle or others not be allowed to build those either?

    I actually hope that Thrunight will not think it worth the effort to mod the TN31 like OMG does. I like to see the little guy establish a niche and do well. I do that too, but I know I must compete to stay on top. That's life. It makes everything here better, and "New and improved" constantly.

    Good luck to you Michael. I doubt all the light brands you are modding are going to make the effort to do what you do.
    Last edited by kengps; 09-04-2012 at 09:50 PM.
    Vinh K40. Vinh Eye40. Vinh S6330. Vihn X10. Vinh TX25C2. Vinh RRT-01. Vihn XM-L2 P60 Thrower (40K Lux!!) Three Oveready Z2's. One Oveready C2. Two Zebralight H31's.

  7. #1117

    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Ken you are quite right. I have no patentable IP in these lights. Just highly honed techniques. It is frustrating that I would spend the time and little money I have to find these untapped improvements only to have someone simply copy the fruits of my labors and research instead of having done the work to find it themselves. Is that immoral? I really don't know. I don't think so. This certainly doesn't rise to the level of the 007 ripoff by any means. Any less frustrating for me? No. If I saw Surefire using a new thermal paste that was the best in the world I would certainly buy it and use it myself. I get that side of the issue. I have figured that someone would start copying. Eventually. But I haven't even been going for a week before I have to worry about someone copying what I am doing? I guess I'd just like a little bit of time to have something exclusive. Is that too much to ask?

  8. #1118
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    They may see what you have. But they may take a while to get it into production. You must get moving and establish a market presence. Being first has it's advantages believe me. I don't know what you're doing with the new lights, but maybe you could negotiate an exclusive for a limited time period on one of the Patented technologies? Also, if you have even a very, very limited model....one that holds the title over your competitors....you can often parlay that flagship models reputation to advantage, on the higher production number items you sell. Your DEFT certainly was that at the time. I liked it a lot, but it was too big to carry. (I did own one for a time) If you had built something smaller like the A9 based one I built for myself....I never would have "Built it myself". I would have bought from you just on the reputation of the Flagship DEFT. You have a great Reputation. Looks to me you're going in the right direction.

    I'd love to see you build something really hot in this size range. Mine was really mild, but performed well. Fit in a jacket pocket easily. XM-L should be fine. Mine will run for over 2 hours. An XML with 45 mins-1 hour is fine.
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=121%2C000+lux
    Last edited by kengps; 09-04-2012 at 11:32 PM.
    Vinh K40. Vinh Eye40. Vinh S6330. Vihn X10. Vinh TX25C2. Vinh RRT-01. Vihn XM-L2 P60 Thrower (40K Lux!!) Three Oveready Z2's. One Oveready C2. Two Zebralight H31's.

  9. #1119

    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    Ken you are quite right. I have no patentable IP in these lights. Just highly honed techniques. It is frustrating that I would spend the time and little money I have to find these untapped improvements only to have someone simply copy the fruits of my labors and research instead of having done the work to find it themselves. Is that immoral? I really don't know. I don't think so. This certainly doesn't rise to the level of the 007 ripoff by any means. Any less frustrating for me? No. If I saw Surefire using a new thermal paste that was the best in the world I would certainly buy it and use it myself. I get that side of the issue. I have figured that someone would start copying. Eventually. But I haven't even been going for a week before I have to worry about someone copying what I am doing? I guess I'd just like a little bit of time to have something exclusive. Is that too much to ask?
    Your skills are far above the realms of a production line, and surely cant be transfered at a click of the fingers.

  10. #1120
    Flashaholic Tatjanamagic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Saabluster is cool guy... Maybe to cool and to honest...

    I don't want to give advice to anyone but if by miracle God give me knowledge as Saabluster have I would do following:


    - I would made my own unique flashlight design
    - I would make contract with China flashlight company (quality one of course)
    - Then I would order host only(reflector or aspheric, body, switch) under my brand name (lets say omg lumens)
    - MOQ is 500PCS 10000-12000$ for top quality flashlight like wolf eyes night hunter(build like a tank)
    - Then I would finalize product with my technology (assembled and finished in USA)
    - Warranty and parts support eventually upgrade ability
    - I would be happy with 100% profit for start (lets say about 120$ for flashlight)

    And only then I would come on the market and then I would shut up and keep my mods as top secret... Put or weld something on your pill so if someone will do surgery on it he will loose warrant or mess something inside so that is unrepairable.


    So I think Saabluster should make something unique and keep all information for him and his family.
    It is nice to share and give advices on forum but plenty of people will use his data and knowledge against him.

    If you find something special keep that for yourself as top secret you have every right to do so...
    I am in endless pursuit for best aspherical and non aspherical throwers...

  11. #1121
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    It's going on 2 weeks now, has anyone got a shipping notice for the TN31 yet?
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  12. #1122
    Flashaholic Fresh Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by bc5000 View Post
    It's going on 2 weeks now, has anyone got a shipping notice for the TN31 yet?
    No, but my receipt is only from the 29th. With everything backed up over the LaborDay weekend, I don't expect it for a while. I don't know if he is stocking TN31s to
    custom build if has to order them then do the modifications. I'm willing to wait as long as it means getting a good one. Get your batteries charged in the meantime and find a good spot to take some beamshots.

  13. #1123
    Flashaholic* Oztorchfreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by bc5000 View Post
    It's going on 2 weeks now, has anyone got a shipping notice for the TN31 yet?

    I am in Australia and I just ordered a TN31 from Michael Johnson (Saabluster) a couple of days ago.

    Are you worried about production delays?

    Or are you worried Michael is going to make a dash with the cash.

    I think he needs a few orders locked in so he can buy those hosts in one group buy and then make a start on the mods for us.

    I have my Varapower Turbo 2 (180K lux & 270K with Aspherical fitted), Olight SR90 (113K lux), Dereelight DBS-T EZ900 LED Aspherical (100k lux), Crelant 7G5V2 wth Collimator (130K lux) and my original Thrunite TN31 (113K lux) to get me by.

    The TN31 is great as a thrower keeping up with the SR90 and putting out a bright pure white beam via the U2 LED installed.



    CHEERS
    ONCE YOU START COLLECTING LIGHTS THERE IS NO END IN SIGHT.

  14. #1124

    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by bc5000 View Post
    It's going on 2 weeks now, has anyone got a shipping notice for the TN31 yet?
    No noone has gotten a shipping notice just yet. Oztorch is quite right that I had to order a batch. I had expected the lights to be here already but they are not. They should be here by the end of the week. That means first shipments will happen mid next week.

  15. #1125
    Flashaholic* BLUE LED's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    No noone has gotten a shipping notice just yet. Oztorch is quite right that I had to order a batch. I had expected the lights to be here already but they are not. They should be here by the end of the week. That means first shipments will happen mid next week.
    Did you order any spare or just enough to fill the orders?

    I have been looking at this thread daily.

  16. #1126

    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    No noone has gotten a shipping notice just yet. Oztorch is quite right that I had to order a batch. I had expected the lights to be here already but they are not. They should be here by the end of the week. That means first shipments will happen mid next week.
    Still time then to add a sti-v6 to my order. Great, I'll get it done.

  17. #1127
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    Cool Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by Oztorchfreak View Post
    I am in Australia and I just ordered a TN31 from Michael Johnson (Saabluster) a couple of days ago.

    Are you worried about production delays?

    Or are you worried Michael is going to make a dash with the cash.

    I think he needs a few orders locked in so he can buy those hosts in one group buy and then make a start on the mods for us.

    I have my Varapower Turbo 2 (180K lux & 270K with Aspherical fitted), Olight SR90 (113K lux), Dereelight DBS-T EZ900 LED Aspherical (100k lux), Crelant 7G5V2 wth Collimator (130K lux) and my original Thrunite TN31 (113K lux) to get me by.

    The TN31 is great as a thrower keeping up with the SR90 and putting out a bright pure white beam via the U2 LED installed.



    CHEERS
    Take it easy. I'm not worried about nothing. Was just asking if someone had one on the way. As simple as that.
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  18. #1128

    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUE LED View Post
    Did you order any spare or just enough to fill the orders?

    I have been looking at this thread daily.
    A few spare too

  19. #1129
    Flashaholic* BLUE LED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUE LED View Post
    Did you order any spare or just enough to fill the orders?

    I have been looking at this thread daily.
    Quote Originally Posted by saabluster View Post
    A few spare too
    I finally caved in and order a TN31. Your reply pushed me over the edge and I soon realised that I could not live comfortably without that amount of throw in my life. Super throw in a compact package. I hope I receive an over performing one to take on my Olight SR95UT and Varapower Turbo De-domed.

  20. #1130
    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    Default

    Speaking of dedicated throwers...

    I've just acquired a Elektrolumens ST90, and think that a SBT-90 would make a good upgrade for it.

    Does anyone know where I can get a SBT-90 on a star?

  21. #1131

    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Good afternoon all
    Sabbluster,did you expect the intrest and numbers/orders or have buyers been lower in number than expected.Cant wait for mine to arrive.I also wondered being that im over the Pond,would some spare parts be prudent.Im quite new to the intrest/Hobby,so any help on this would be kewl

    Have a goodn

  22. #1132
    Flashaholic Fresh Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    I received a VPT XMl and VPT XPG2 with direct copper bonded LEDs onto large copper heat sinks with an aluminium heat exchanger on the neck of the light . Both lights are in 2D size running on 3c cells. They both have 73mm SMO reflectors and are some of the best throwers I have seen. The XPG2 in particular throws an intense compact beam with overall lumen output not as different as the apparent die size would have me believe. I also put the head and lens from the DEFT onto the VPT XPG2 and tried that out. It is a larger projected die size, than the XRE in the DEFT, but the intensity at distance is impressive. I've tried lighting up some telephone poles at about 400 yards and it will without problem.
    I did not try the XML since the larger LEDs are less impressive with relatively small aspheric lenses.

    This is why I like the VP lights so much! That friends, is a Copper heat sink.
    Last edited by Fresh Light; 09-07-2012 at 10:35 AM.

  23. #1133
    Flashaholic* BLUE LED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by mvyrmnd View Post
    Speaking of dedicated throwers...

    I've just acquired a Elektrolumens ST90, and think that a SBT-90 would make a good upgrade for it.

    Does anyone know where I can get a SBT-90 on a star?
    I donít think anyone sells the SBT-90 on a star. I know it is a bit of a pain, but you could make one out of copper.

  24. #1134

    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    OK guys in an attempt to keep the peace. This is the best thread on CPF. Lets all keep our posts on topic

  25. #1135
    Moderator Kestrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Five posts have been deleted pending moderator review. Please stay on topic. Thanks folks,
    Last edited by Kestrel; 09-07-2012 at 08:57 AM.

  26. #1136
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Five posts have been deleted pending moderator review. Please stay on topic. Thanks folks,
    I don't usually comment on these actions, but thank you Kestrel. Much appreciated.

  27. #1137
    Flashaholic* BLUE LED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by mvyrmnd View Post
    Speaking of dedicated throwers...

    I've just acquired a Elektrolumens ST90, and think that a SBT-90 would make a good upgrade for it.

    Does anyone know where I can get a SBT-90 on a star?
    I will have a look tonight. I may have a spare one. What size are you after?

  28. #1138
    Flashaholic* ma_sha1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUE LED View Post
    I don’t think anyone sells the SBT-90 on a star. I know it is a bit of a pain, but you could make one out of copper.
    SBT-90 on a copper already exist, it's CBT-90, but it's so big that needs to be cut to fit in mag tube:
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...-made-Elephant
    My Mods.. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...5&postcount=78
    Hobby only, I don't do custom mods as a service, thanks for understanding.

  29. #1139

    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh Light View Post
    This is why I like the VP lights so much! That friends, is a Copper heat sink.
    That no heat sink thats a space station!

    I wonder how much that copper alone costs?
    Fenix LD01 R4, E05 R4, PD31, TK20, TK35, E11, Jetbeam BC25, RRT-0, Klarus NT20, iTP A3 R5, A3 Ti S2, 4Sevens Preon 1, Quark X 123^2, Sunwayman V10R Ti, Surefire G2X Tactical, ThruNite TN31, Mag-Lite XL50, Mag 2D XP-E

  30. #1140
    Flashaholic* The_Driver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dedicated throwers

    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
    That no heat sink thats a space station!

    I wonder how much that copper alone costs?
    If I remember correctly he postet somewhere that it's over 1000$ just for the copper for 11 VPT V2s

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