Dedicated throwers

[subwoofer]

Looking on Konarik.com at the Tiablo A9 and Thrunite Catapult V3, the Fenix TK41 looks like it would beat them both. I've just got the Ultrafire WF-008 recoil thrower which so far is impressive I just haven't done a side by side with the TK41 yet.

[coolperl]

About size of hotspot. I don't know about inverse square law of lights. But for me hotspot size does have difference.I will give U example of flashlight I own:

Microfire Warrior 3500 HID(lux readings about 60k lux/1m) vs Deerelight aspheric(50K lux readings) running on old 1,2 amp pill

Winner is deerelight aspheric and it throws, a lot smaller and brighter hotspot than microfire.

The reason, why you perceive asheric brighter, despite lower lux reading, is that it has no spill. Hence there's no light reflecting from grass, ground, things near you ...whatever. When you turn on your HID, your night vision is killed by spill light that is reflecting from those nearby objects. Your pupil of the eye narrows and you see less. This is why we do not perceive brightness increase as a linear function. The brighter the enviroment is, the narrower is the pupil of the eye, so there's a reduction in light that hits the fundus.

Second thing is that aspheric beam has sharp borders, so there is better contrast between illuminated area and dark area. The enhaced contrast lets you to perceive something brighter than it is in reality.

I'm not challenging your personal experience. It's just explanation why you perceive beam from aspheric as a brighter one. In reality, a light source with 60K lux/1m (measured from proper distance) will throw farther than light source with 50K lux/1m. No matter, what method is used to focus the beam. You just can't change the laws of physics. Human eyes are not a proper instrument, to base theories about "faster melting hotspot", on.

[GulfCoastToad]

I have several single 18650 lights I could mount on my favorite AR15 but I decided to mount my Jetbeam BC40.

Could I see a pic of that? I am looking for something to mount to a RRA LAR-15. If it's too off topic for this thread, you can PM it to me.

[Tatjanamagic]

The reason, why you perceive asheric brighter, despite lower lux reading, is that it has no spill. Hence there's no light reflecting from grass, ground, things near you ...whatever. When you turn on your HID, your night vision is killed by spill light that is reflecting from those nearby objects. Your pupil of the eye narrows and you see less. This is why we do not perceive brightness increase as a linear function. The brighter the enviroment is, the narrower is the pupil of the eye, so there's a reduction in light that hits the fundus.

Second thing is that aspheric beam has sharp borders, so there is better contrast between illuminated area and dark area. The enhaced contrast lets you to perceive something brighter than it is in reality.

I'm not challenging your personal experience. It's just explanation why you perceive beam from aspheric as a brighter one. In reality, a light source with 60K lux/1m (measured from proper distance) will throw farther than light source with 50K lux/1m. No matter, what method is used to focus the beam. You just can't change the laws of physics. Human eyes are not a proper instrument, to base theories about "faster melting hotspot", on.

Hmm...

Very nice explained but I can give my experience again. Target(black circle on white paper) at 350 meters is clearly visible when U R using DBS aspherical(old 1,2 amp r2) and watch over Karl Kahles 3,5-10×50 profesional rifle scope but when U use my above mentioned HID on same target it is simply not visible.

I was not alone at that test everybody had same perception... So laws of physics are not reliable in this case. So when watched over the scope U can actually see that led aspheric throws better than MF3500 HID although 3500 lumens and 60 klux/meter

If you don't thrust me please try.

[saabluster]

Hi Saabluster and 2100,

Sabluster I knew about your xpc it looks same like green xpe I have at my home. But they are old school emitters that will have potential only if properly tuned by you and only in aspheric right?

I used the XP-C emitters unmolested in the DEFT-edc. These are far from "old school" technology. They use the exact same chip technology as the XM-L they are just smaller. The package construction is basically the same as the XM-L as well.

[Tatjanamagic]

I used the XP-C emitters unmolested in the DEFT-edc. These are far from "old school" technology. They use the exact same chip technology as the XM-L they are just smaller. The package construction is basically the same as the XM-L as well.

At which current? They are probably not so good in big deft?

And I want to ask U as I am no expert is this green XPE that I have same as your XPC? I took a picture of it and it is quite bright for green emitter and looks like your on deft edc. But I got to mention that compared to new deerelight ez900 1,5 amp pill got less throw.

Here is pic:


I know that led die is not clearly visible on this picture but it is in real life. This was put in deerelight aspheric.

[psychbeat]

Any tuning tips for my Ahorton p60 kit?

I think I focused it fairly sharp at about 20 ft
but I dont have a lux meter... maybe I should get one?
currently have a 1.4a XR-E EZ900 behind it.
maybe I should go with an XP-C at some point?

Im happy with it already but its always fun to tinker

[cummins4x4]

So I think I have narrowed the search to the Invictus or the Deft LR. Any beamshots comparing these 2 that anyone can point me to?

[saabluster]

At which current? They are probably not so good in big deft?

And I want to ask U as I am no expert is this green XPE that I have same as your XPC? I took a picture of it and it is quite bright for green emitter and looks like your on deft edc. But I got to mention that compared to new deerelight ez900 1,5 amp pill got less throw.

I know that led die is not clearly visible on this picture but it is in real life. This was put in deerelight aspheric.

You do not have a green XP-E. That is an XP-C. Although I can put a green one in my light they come stock with the XP-C white LED. The XP-C is not good in the larger size DEFT like I used to make. The beam is too small. In the DEFT-edc however it is brilliant.

Any tuning tips for my Ahorton p60 kit?

I think I focused it fairly sharp at about 20 ft
but I dont have a lux meter... maybe I should get one?
currently have a 1.4a XR-E EZ900 behind it.
maybe I should go with an XP-C at some point?

Im happy with it already but its always fun to tinker

Well I don't have one of his kits. Just the lenses. No need to get a meter just to tune a light. Your eyeballs are good enough to tell you when you like what you see.

So I think I have narrowed the search to the Invictus or the Deft LR. Any beamshots comparing these 2 that anyone can point me to?

Well the DEFT-edc LR is not in anyone's hands just yet so no pictures would be available. Those two lights really aren't in the same category though. I'd imagine my light would beat the Invictus in throw even though it is way way smaller but it is hard to say since Surefire doesn't list such a basic spec as cd. Very strange that. But like I said two completely different lights. The Surefire would be a tougher light to be sure and would have a broader beam. It also has multi-modes. Then again you could have two DEFT LRs and $100 in your pocket for the price of one of those Surefires. Just depends on what you are looking for. The DEFT is good for having the spotting power of the "big guns" but in such a tiny package that you can take it with you everywhere.

[coolperl]

Hmm...

Very nice explained but I can give my experience again. Target(black circle on white paper) at 350 meters is clearly visible when U R using DBS aspherical(old 1,2 amp r2) and watch over Karl Kahles 3,5-10×50 profesional rifle scope but when U use my above mentioned HID on same target it is simply not visible.

I was not alone at that test everybody had same perception... So laws of physics are not reliable in this case. So when watched over the scope U can actually see that led aspheric throws better than MF3500 HID although 3500 lumens and 60 klux/meter

If you don't thrust me please try.

If this is the case, it just mean, that you did your throw measurements wrong. If you put luxmeter over that sheet of paper 350m away, you'll get bigger lux reading from aspheric, than from HID (according to your experience). When you calculate it to lux/1m values, you'll get better results for aspheric which will confirm what your eyes see through the scope.

Laws of physics are reliable. Just your measurements methodology is not.

Aspherics need much larger distance, when taking throw measurements. If you're measuring throw of aspheric from ~10m or ~15m you won't get accurate results. That's why I wrote about measuring from proper distance in my previous post.

[Tatjanamagic]

If this is the case, it just mean, that you did your throw measurements wrong. If you put luxmeter over that sheet of paper 350m away, you'll get bigger lux reading from aspheric, than from HID (according to your experience). When you calculate it to lux/1m values, you'll get better results for aspheric which will confirm what your eyes see through the scope.

Laws of physics are reliable. Just your measurements methodology is not.

Aspherics need much larger distance, when taking throw measurements. If you're measuring throw of aspheric from ~10m or ~15m you won't get accurate results. That's why I wrote about measuring from proper distance in my previous post.

Friend I don't measure lux readings on 350 meters I shoot on target on that distance...

I am measuring lux readins from 5 to 10 meters for aspheric. Usually I got same results as other CPF members on 7 meters.

Microfire warrior 3500 is strong small handheld HID. Check other member readings they even got 100 KLux/meter for that hid. But I assure U that U will better see target on that distance with aspheric in fact at least with this HID U will not see it at all...

So I wish U were there when we watched over rifle scope when dbs aspheric defy the laws of physics.

[Tatjanamagic]

I used the XP-C emitters unmolested in the DEFT-edc. These are far from "old school" technology. They use the exact same chip technology as the XM-L they are just smaller. The package construction is basically the same as the XM-L as well.

Need Saabluster my cpf colleague ,

Hope I am not to annoying for U. I have try to contact U over private messages but your inbox is full so U can not receive it. Just want to tell U that you are my idol. Wish I have knowledge to make my light but that will never happen.

But I am good at testing stuff. Please help me with a choice of XPC emitter for aspheric. I finally found XPC emitters on market. If U want U can PM me this.

So please tell me which one should I take from this palette:

XPC Q2 3A
XPC Q2 3D
XPC Q2 4B

XPC Q4 WC

I would be very grateful if U would make me a choice of this.

And at which maximum current I should run this so that it does not explode?

Thanks.

[2100]

Well coolperl and Tat, there is another thing that is mentioned by ma_sha that LEDs always get a lower reading on the meter as compared to the HID counterparts. Something to do with the yellow deficiency in the CW LEDs' spectral distribution. Mix that with an aspheric's die image in which we usually measure the hottest spots which are pretty small (say near the die wires), things might not be that directly comparable.

[yiyans]

That sure would help, especially in this case.
You could also solder some very small blobs on each cell on the top, so that the contact is assured with another flat surface. Then maybe you wouldn't have to change the springs, because this might happen with another flashlight too.

I took the short cut and used protected cells in the 7G5.
Cheers again for your help.

[brandocommando]

Not a great pic but it's kind of cool. It was VERY foggy here in Oregon last night, so remembering this thread, I took my thrower out to play in the fog.

It is a Lumapower Turboforce head, with a 1X 18650 battery tube. The XR-E pill is a custom one I put together, and it is (over) driven at around 2A.

[AutoTech]

Nice.

I'm going to try and get some decent pics of mine with my mrs' SLR

[Tatjanamagic]

Nice work brando! It is bright as hell... I never tried to do costumize xre but I would like to see your pill in my aspheric I bet it would go well over 120 k lux

Edit: I also took pictures of DBS V3 aspherical with new 1,5 amp WD R2 pill. Note that this was heavy fog U actually don't see 2 meters in front of U.

Readings taken before and are following: 89292.8 lux/m. Measurements taken with TES 1332A lux meter. Distance 7 meters.



U can only imagine what would Saabluster do with this configuration. Probably he would tune that up to 200 or more klux

[ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS]

My Catapult XM-L has some serious throw. I hit two coyotes really far away the other night and they took off

Every-time I turn it on high I think, WOW this thing throws, you have to lean into it it throws out so much light, LOL

I am actually in the market for something that uses non-LI cells for my old man but offers Catapult like throw, that may be hard to do though.

let the search begin....

I just got my Catapult V3 and I now see why so many people praise this light as a true thrower. The best thrower I currently have. I love it.

[ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS]

Now I hope that this isn't considered hotlinking since I see some pictures above that are from photbucket.com, but here are a few shots from my ThruNite Catapult V3.

Approx 85yds



About 200yds or so to the last street sign lit up on the right



Right at 350yds or so to that white barn lit up

[Sceme]

Looking at that Tatjanamagic's picture I first tought it was mountains that were lit by the spread and I was like wtf, those are like 10 miles away. It was a tree, cool pic tho!
Here's my TK70. iPhone image quality doesn't quite reveal the true power of that light.

[roadkill1109]

Buy youself a real thrower (like Catapult V3, Crelant 7G5, Sunwayman TC40S) and you'll laugh from your poor TN11.

Are the throwers you mentioned better than the Xeno G42 V2?

[AutoTech]

Nice work brando! It is bright as hell... I never tried to do costumize xre but I would like to see your pill in my aspheric I bet it would go well over 120 k lux

Edit: I also took pictures of DBS V3 aspherical with new 1,5 amp WD R2 pill. Note that this was heavy fog U actually don't see 2 meters in front of U.

Readings taken before and are following: 89292.8 lux/m. Measurements taken with TES 1332A lux meter. Distance 7 meters.



U can only imagine what would Saabluster do with this configuration. Probably he would tune that up to 200 or more klux

That looks superb.

[Breathing Borla]

nice pics!!! yup the catapult is in the monster thrower category for sure. I love mine. insane amount of light

[ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS]

I might add that the Catapult V3 is the best looking and machined light I have. The 7075 aluminum gives this light some heft. And the finish on this light is second to none. I got mine slightly used for $103 shipped to my door with insurance. Hard to pass up a deal like that.



Here's another shot I took last night.

105yds to that neighbors pool. Those farthest trees in the background below the pool are probably at least 200yds.

[Tatjanamagic]

Hi guys,

I now that there are many thrower lowers out there but if you want experience mighty throw U will need aspheric or hid.

Of course aspheric beam profile is not for everyone because it does not have any flood or spill... Only pure hotspot...

This Thrunite Catapult V3 and his 40 000 lux/m is baby for my dbs V3 xre aspherical when it comes to throw (90 000 lux/m).

I think even small p60 deft edc first generation throws better than catapult. But of course aspheric and reflector are not in same category....

I really hate to take night pictures because don't know how to set the camera for night shooting but I can actually illuminate white objects(like barn in above picture) on 1000 meter distance. On 350 + meter over rifle scope U can clearly identify everything that is moving and make a clear shot if needed.

So when we speak about great distance throw aspheric has better and brighter throw than catapult like lights.

But of course if U want light with mighty throw,flood, and spill catapult is better choice as aspheric has only hotspot.

So I am not impressed with this catapult. Throws litlle less than my microfire 3500 HID... But for led thrower is very good...

I want to tell you that 1 flashlight thrower is not enough... At least 20 or maybe little more should be fine for start

Regards

[saabluster]

Need Saabluster my cpf colleague ,

Hope I am not to annoying for U. I have try to contact U over private messages but your inbox is full so U can not receive it. Just want to tell U that you are my idol. Wish I have knowledge to make my light but that will never happen.

But I am good at testing stuff. Please help me with a choice of XPC emitter for aspheric. I finally found XPC emitters on market. If U want U can PM me this.

So please tell me which one should I take from this palette:

XPC Q2 3A
XPC Q2 3D
XPC Q2 4B

XPC Q4 WC

I would be very grateful if U would make me a choice of this.

And at which maximum current I should run this so that it does not explode?

Thanks.

Sorry about the PM box being full. The strongest of that bunch of XP-Cs listed is the Q4 WC. Maximum current depends on what host and what thermal path. Mounted on the high purity copper I run it at 1.4A. That is the absolute max without taking extreme measures. I wouldn't go over 700mA on a Cutter mcpcb. A better mcpcb may allow up to 1A.

[rickypanecatyl]

My exact set-up! I got a Lumapower Turboforce head and a D-mini body off CPFMP for $38.00, and put a XR-E in it. It is running at 2A!!!

It THROOOOOOOOWS! It stomps my el-cheapo DX aspherical set-up (also an XR-E.)

Wow!! I had no idea you could run a XR-E at 2A? Which bin XR-E is it? Is it just the XP-E's that are now up to R4? Any throw difference between a XP & XR-E everything else being equal?

[rickypanecatyl]

The reason, why you perceive asheric brighter, despite lower lux reading, is that it has no spill. Hence there's no light reflecting from grass, ground, things near you ...whatever. When you turn on your HID, your night vision is killed by spill light that is reflecting from those nearby objects. Your pupil of the eye narrows and you see less. This is why we do not perceive brightness increase as a linear function. The brighter the enviroment is, the narrower is the pupil of the eye, so there's a reduction in light that hits the fundus.

Second thing is that aspheric beam has sharp borders, so there is better contrast between illuminated area and dark area. The enhaced contrast lets you to perceive something brighter than it is in reality.

I'm not challenging your personal experience. It's just explanation why you perceive beam from aspheric as a brighter one. In reality, a light source with 60K lux/1m (measured from proper distance) will throw farther than light source with 50K lux/1m. No matter, what method is used to focus the beam. You just can't change the laws of physics. Human eyes are not a proper instrument, to base theories about "faster melting hotspot", on.

Tatjanamajic's perceptions are a good reminder that there is a difference between how bright a light is and how much it helps you see. Personally I'm all about "seeing" better, but I get my terminology mixed up and say I want more lumens or more lux.
In most practical applications, "perceived brightness" is far more important than "actual brightness" no?

[brandocommando]

Wow!! I had no idea you could run a XR-E at 2A? Which bin XR-E is it? Is it just the XP-E's that are now up to R4? Any throw difference between a XP & XR-E everything else being equal?

As I mentioned it post #76 it is being over driven at that amperage. It is a homemade job, and I mounted the MCPCB to an all copper surface (a penny actually) to help with heatsinking. I only use the light in short bursts of a few minutes at a time. So far I have not had any problems... I think 1.4A - 1.8A is the accepted range for the most part.

As for your second question, an XR-E will throw further because it has a smaller surface area.

I have no idea what bin my XR-E is. It's cool white.

[bigchelis]

+1 on that Lumapower D-Mini with 66SMO Reflector.

I ran my personal one at 2A too. My emitter was XR-E R2 EZ1000 and highest pure white bin known. It clocked in at 88K lux or so. With a 1.3A driver pill I believe I was at 77K lux, so still alot more throw then most Aspheric type builds. Well, not the DEFT.

Just so you guys know. Lamdalights.com is currently finalizing the Turbo XM-L 2D Mag. It already does 135K lux via 3in SMO Reflector on a 2D Mag and powered by 3 NiMH C cells. With 33 mode knob its very useable. Plus, I am pushing him to hopefully drive it at 5.5A vs. the 4.5A it is now.
http://flashlightnews.net/forum/index.php?topic=2712.0

best,
bigC