Nitecore "Tiny Monster" TM11 (4x18650, 3xXM-L) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, VIDEO +

[picrthis]

Does anybody know when the red indicator light with 18650 batteries tells you that it's time to take the batteries out and recharge them, what the voltage level is set for? and how far down will the light run before it turns itself off?

Thanks

[brightnorm]

...TM11's strobe function. On mine, the strobe is slightly possessed and varies in frequency from slightly slower than my benchmark 4Sevens TurboX to much slower and then repeats the pattern. Anyone else pick up on this or understand why the strobe would vary in frequency?

I wouldn't be surprised if the confusing strobe pattern was designed to be even more disorienting than conventional strobe.

Brightnorm

[selfbuilt]

I may have missed it while skimming the several hundred posts, but I haven't read any comments about the TM11's strobe function. On mine, the strobe is slightly possessed and varies in frequency from slightly slower than my benchmark 4Sevens TurboX to much slower and then repeats the pattern. Anyone else pick up on this or understand why the strobe would vary in frequency?

Yes, good catch - I forgot to include the strobe testing in my original review. I have just gone back and added the results (quoted below)

Strobe is indeed a true oscillating strobe, that continually changes its frequency. I have seen this recently on the Jetbeam PC/PA series lights as well.

Here is an overview taken at at long time series (8 secs):



The overall "average" frequency is somewhere around 9-10 Hz. But this is misleading, as the strobe actually varies considerably from pulse to pulse, as shown over the shorter time series below:





In my testing, the time between pulses varied anywhere from ~60 msecs to ~250 msecs (i.e. from ~17 Hz to ~4 Hz).

I presume the reason JetBeam and Nitecore have adopted this strobe is that it is indeed very disorienting.

BTW, I see this review thread was also affected by the 4-year timestamp hack of a couple of weeks ago (i.e. my main review post has been bumped down to post #4). I could ask the mods to fix this, but the result would be to change the database reference number for the review, invalidating all existing links and boomarks. Since this review has been out for awhile, and a number of other sources have pointers to it, I think I will just leave things alone.

[picrthis]

Personally myself, I'll be hanging on to my cash, and not going for the latest version 3 creation, after seeing those pictures on that German site of the crappy build and totally unsuitable materials. It's put me off buying one altogether.

What are the numbers on Version 3 PCB?

[maunaloa]

How are you securing it, maunaloa? I'd love to see a photo or two of your setup. And does it stay steadily in place or do you have any problem at all with the TM11 wobbling or shifting out of place while riding? This is something I had intended to experiment with myself, but I've never gotten around to playing with a proper mount.

I'm on a business trip now on CONUS, and will take some pix when I return to the Islands. I'm using "industrial" velcro to secure the light to two bar mounts disposed immediately adjacent to, and on the L and R sides of, the stem to keep the mass in the centerline. I regard the TM11's low mass as a plus... as a holder for 4x18650 of runtime, with high and turbo in reserve. There's just a bit of wobble, but it doesn't bother me. I had thought about using a "handle bar bag" U-bolt mount, the type required for bikes with Shimano gruppo that has a vertical plate about 10 cm forward of the bars. I haven't tried that yet since the above method worked OK. I also use a "releasable cable tie" as a safety.

[varuscelli]

I'm on a business trip now on CONUS, and will take some pix when I return to the Islands. I'm using "industrial" velcro to secure the light to two bar mounts disposed immediately adjacent to, and on the L and R sides of, the stem to keep the mass in the centerline. I regard the TM11's low mass as a plus... as a holder for 4x18650 of runtime, with high and turbo in reserve. There's just a bit of wobble, but it doesn't bother me. I had thought about using a "handle bar bag" U-bolt mount, the type required for bikes with Shimano gruppo that has a vertical plate about 10 cm forward of the bars. I haven't tried that yet since the above method worked OK. I also use a "releasable cable tie" as a safety.

Great! I'll look forward to seeing what you've done. Thanks for the written explanation -- it'll be great to see some pics when you have the opportunity.

[boofy]

What are the numbers on Version 3 PCB?

v1.12-1111 is version 3. i got sent v1 11-1110 which is version 2 and still this years model. so far, it is working perfectly. was in a roof yesterday and accidentally had it on turbo. it didnt cycle down at all (was on for about 5-10mins) but honestly, it gets hot to touch by this time, so you are more likely to cycle it down yourself if you are holding it. on high, it hardly gets hot at all even after about 30 mins or so.

[maunaloa]

My V1.11 TM11 would start fluctuating between turbo and high within 3 minutes of entering turbo mode. After a single email, the vendor was prompt in replacing it with a V1.12. My impression (and it's just that, based on a reasonable inference) is that dealers will ship a V1.11 even if they also have a V1.12 in inventory... since the V1.11 might not have the turbo fluctuation defect. There hasn't been a recall, per se.

[peterharvey73]

My V1.11 TM11 would start fluctuating between turbo and high within 3 minutes of entering turbo mode. After a single email, the vendor was prompt in replacing it with a V1.12. My impression (and it's just that, based on a reasonable inference) is that dealers will ship a V1.11 even if they also have a V1.12 in inventory... since the V1.11 might not have the turbo fluctuation defect. There hasn't been a recall, per se.

Have you received your V1.12 yet?
Does it behave the same way as the V1.11?
Nitecore is just trying to run the TM on turbo as much as possible, and I'm not sure if this is a great idea?
Most other lights like the Zebra SC600 after 5 minutes would step down from turbo to high permanently, until you switch the light off, and turn it on turbo again...

[maunaloa]

ph73, the "TM12" left the vendor's store for the Islands the day I left for CONUS, so I won't see the replacement light for 3 weeks. Yes, many f.holics focus only on the most lumens, or maybe "most lumens in a pattern". My focus for the TM 11 is on huge runtime reserves at 800 lumens, with high and turbo modes in ready. To night cyclists, or mountain road cycles with unlit tunnels (Japan, Korea, and Taiwan have some impressive rail-to-trail tunnels), a light like the TM11 enables trips without rerigging the bike with batteries and cables.

[Illuminato]

Interesting! Your O-scope pics are very revealing, it appears that both frequency and AMPLITUDE vary in the Stobe mode. In your initial 8 sec sweep, the amplitude varies by 2:1 or more. I can "see" how a possessed strobe like this would be more disorientating than a steady 15 Hz with constant amplitude. One more thing to like about my TM11 SelfBuilt, thanks for the quick follow up to my question, and also for answering the question I didn't ask, but had noticed, regarding the timestamp hack!

[maunaloa]

Nitecore (please listen), make a cyclists' version of the TM11 with a handlebar holder, charger input from a hub dynamo, and a USB port to charge a mobile device. Add a video camera and you have a WINNER. Cyclist all want video of the bus, truck, etc., that nearly side swiped them. While at it, add an MP3 player, BT, and HP jacks (for audiophiles... ear-canal earphones are gettting really close to over-ear HPs). My previous night light was 2 x TK35... that's where the bar mounts came from. It's now #2. Some TK35s are significantly more floody than others. A flloody and a spotty worked well together, but the TM 11 is night and day better.

[selfbuilt]

Interesting! Your O-scope pics are very revealing, it appears that both frequency and AMPLITUDE vary in the Stobe mode. In your initial 8 sec sweep, the amplitude varies by 2:1 or more.

Yeah, my traces are normally very consistent for signal amplitude. So the variable amplitude shown here does indeed suggest that the intensity of light is varying as well as the frequency. I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to trust this simple sound card oscilloscope method for exact quantification of the intensity change, but the magnitude of the deviation definitely seems to be significant. That is definitely pretty novel, and would help to explain why this strobe is so disorienting.

[Patriot]

FYI: Nitecore has an issue: Check-out their Warranty Information on their Homepage...Do not accidentally drop any of their lights...Check it out and see for yourself.

I copied it below.....


Warranty Service


NiteCore® flashlights enjoy a worldwide warranty service. Within 14 days of purchase, any defective lights will be offered free replacement (proof of purchase required) by NITECORE® distributors unconditionally; Within 18 months of receipt, NiteCore® offers a free repair service, except for damages caused by misuse. As to claims exceeding 18 months, NITECORE® will continue to warrant the product with the cost of parts to be borne by the customer. Customers may contact their local distributor or NITECORE® directly for warranty repair queries. Please note warranty is voided by the following:

1. Damage caused by disassembly or modification without permission
2. Damage caused to the appearance of the product by misuse or accidental occurrence (such as drops or impacts)
3. Damage caused by incorrect battery insertion (reverse polarity) or battery leakage



I think you're referring to example #2 where Nitecore says they don't warranty the appearance of their lights due to drops or impacts. From this you've deduced that "Nitecore has an issue?" If so, I'm not sure that I understand.

[dc38]

Hi guys! I can't find my main post, So i'm going to impose on this one! (sorry :P) anyways, eBay has a daily deal on the TM11 for $180 smackaroos!

[Patriot]

Hi guys! I can't find my main post, So i'm going to impose on this one! (sorry :P) anyways, eBay has a daily deal on the TM11 for $180 smackaroos!

I saw some from $199 but they were all V1.11s. Given the reliability record of the TM11, I think I'd prefer purchasing from a CPF supporting dealer for the sake $35-40. If something isn't right or they send the wrong version, chances are you won't be left out to dry like you might with an ebay seller.

[Steve'O]

FYI: Nitecore has an issue: Check-out their Warranty Information on their Homepage...Do not accidentally drop any of their lights...Check it out and see for yourself.

I don't understand why you think any flashlight manufacturer is going to warranty against drops or misuse either. Why ever in the world would they do that.
It would be commercial suicide if they did. If you buy a new car, does the car manufacturer give you a nice cushy warranty against bumps, knocks, scratches and scrapes that you the owner has caused through maybe your own stupidity ? Please think about it will you

[iron potato]

I don't understand why you think any flashlight manufacturer is going to warranty against drops or misuse either. Why ever in the world would they do that.
It would be commercial suicide if they did. If you buy a new car, does the car manufacturer give you a nice cushy warranty against bumps, knocks, scratches and scrapes that you the owner has caused through maybe your own stupidity ? Please think about it will you

[boofy]

just a quick question regarding battery voltages and relative outputs re lux and runtime.

the tm11 takes 18650 or cr123 batteries. the cr123's are basically 2 batteries in series by 4 pairs to fill the light. this would give a voltage of 7.2 volts compared to using 4 single 18650 batteries that will give a voltage of 4.2 volts. is this light voltage regulated to 4.2 volts as if it isnt, wouldnt the light be brighter with cr123's due to more voltage. i have only used my tm11 with primary cr123's and i dont have any 18650's yet. if i switch to 18650's will i get more runtime and/or better light over primary cr123's. the primary's worked well and only dropped down light levels when they got extremely flat. thanks.

[picrthis]

I tried CR123A (Panasonics & Surefire) and compared them to my usual load of 18650 batteries, and didn't see any difference in light output; probably because it's regulated. I too thought 7.2v "might" make the light brighter than 4.2v would, considering the fact the lumen specs from Nitecore are based on using CR123A's.; so I thought that was a clue to it being brighter on CR123A's, but I percieved no difference between the two.

[F250XLT]

I just foumd out that Nitecore Flashlights are not warranted against an accidental drops. Some Vendors are advertising Nitecore as Being built to Milspec 850 Shock Resistant ratings?, exactly what that means I would like to have explained, and then their website stated that the lights are not warranted against accidental drops. This is contradictory, in my opinion. Amyone have any experience along these lines?

Thanks---JPHIII.

FYI: Nitecore has an issue: Check-out their Warranty Information on their Homepage...Do not accidentally drop any of their lights...Check it out and see for yourself.

I think you've made your point...Is your knick name "Butterfingers" by chance?



I am hoping to check one of these light out sooner than later, they look awesome.

[selfbuilt]

I tried CR123A (Panasonics & Surefire) and compared them to my usual load of 18650 batteries, and didn't see any difference in light output; probably because it's regulated.

Yes, I didn't notice any difference between 18650 and CR123As either - presumably because of the fully regulated nature of the light.

BTW, the mods have thoughtfully restored my main review thread to the first post (although the date stamp remains unavoidably trapped in 2008). I feel so ahead of my time.

[Illuminato]

Cut and Paste from eBay:
The NiteCore TM11 Tiny Monster - The world’s smallest and lightest 2000 lumen flashlight!

Highlights:
1. This is the latest version 1.12-1111 (March 2012 Build) of the TM11 which eliminates the heat dissipation problem seen in some of the earlier batches.
2. It uses the COOL WHITE LED which appears much brighter than both Neutral white and Warm white LEDs. (We also carry neutral white TM11. Please contact us if you are looking for Neutral White)

Question: Selfbuilt explained the changes between the initial batches of TM11's, ie. versions 1 and 2 (1.10 and 1.11), what is new/different with the latest version 3 (1.12-1111)? has anyone used or tested version 3?

Also, I'm curious about the pros and cons of Cool White vs. Neutral White vs. Warm White LEDs. Has anyone tested the various led versions of the TM11? Are there any quantitative differences in terms of lumen output, beam throw/spill/shape?

[Dillo0]

There does not seem to be a set voltage at which the low-indicator comes on. I think the circuitry is a little more complex than just a dumb voltage meter. It uses both primaries and rechargeables.

[peterharvey73]

We did ask Sigmasailor to tell us how his V1.12 1111 is different, but he has disappeared?

Warm tint is like the traditional yellow beam of an incandescent light.
Neutral is in the middle.
Cool tint tends to be similar to a white fluorescent tube.

Warm tints reveal the colours more accurately.
Cool tints tend to make red objects look like blue.

However, warm tints tend to have fewer lumens of output.
Cool tints tend to have more lumens.

I think.

You best and safest stick to cool tint; can try neutral later with more experience...

[selfbuilt]

Also, I'm curious about the pros and cons of Cool White vs. Neutral White vs. Warm White LEDs. Has anyone tested the various led versions of the TM11? Are there any quantitative differences in terms of lumen output, beam throw/spill/shape?

Cool white LEDs are the norm. To make the tint "warmer" requires extra phosphor, which lowers the overall output (i.e. makes them less efficient). Neutral white are slightly warmer, with typically only a minor hit in output (e.g. Neutral XM-L T4 and T5 output bins are available, which are just down from Cool White T6 and U2 output bins). You are unlikely to notice the drop in output in practice.

Warm tint bins typically have much lower efficiency, due to even more phoshor. Here you will likely notice the lower output, but the tint difference will be the most noticeable aspect (typically more like an incandescent). All other characteristics of the light are the same - but with lower overall output also comes lower overall throw (somewhat proportionately).

As for rendering colors, a lot of that is more personal preference and relative experience, although cool tints typically do slightly better for differentiating blue-grays and warms are slightly better for red-browns. But again, that mainly reflects what you are used to - if you are used to incandescents, then warm tints may suit you better. A lot of people like neutral as a more in-between option. But note that "cool", "neutral" and "warm" are all relative descriptors, and the actual tint bin will tell you a lot more, if that information is available for a light in question (e.g. orange or yellow looking warm? pink or yellow looking neutral? etc, etc.).

Ultimately, it is largely a question of personal tint preference.

[Dillo0]

So, now versions that we know:
V1.9-1107 (preview beta) I think there is a member who was actually sold one of these. I'm not sure who though.
V1.10-1108
V1.11-1110
V1.12-1111

One thing I noticed with the V1.12-1111 is that when the torch is running, the red ring around the switch turns on so that you can find the switch to turn it off. In previous versions, the red light around the switch does not turn on when the torch is running unless the battery is running down.

[peterharvey73]

Thanks Selfbuilt.
That's the best explanation for tint that I have read in this forum.
So short and to the point too, yet so effective.
While warm tints are better for viewing reds, cool tints are better for viewing blues; even stevens. Purely preference. Hence in comes neutrals.
It's amazing how threads go on for thousands of posts about clickies, tints and strobes etc, when the answer is actually quite simple.

Dillo, you must be the first to identify the difference in V1.12?
So, the "low battery indicator" is gone!
It has now been replaced by the "switch locator" which flashes continuously during operation at all voltage levels...

[varuscelli]

I'm not sure what other current users of the TM11 think about this, but after doing a bit of fumbling on more than one occasion when trying to locate the switch to turn it off (or switch modes) while using it out in the dark, I actually wish the red switch light would automatically come on when the light is switched on.

Despite the tactile recesses to the left and right of the switch that I assume are there to help the user locate the switch by feel, I'd like the red switch light to come on while the TM11 is in use to give a visual of where the switch is.

Locating the switch is not much of a problem when in high or turbo mode, but if used on the lower modes (without other reflective surfaces around to bounce light back toward the light body), the switch goes pretty much invisible. With such a fat light body, it can take a bit of spinning to actually locate the switch by feel alone, especially if you're using only one hand to control the flashlight.

Does this make sense to any of you who are using the TM11?

One thing I noticed with the V1.12-1111 is that when the torch is running, the red ring around the switch turns on so that you can find the switch to turn it off. In previous versions, the red light around the switch does not turn on when the torch is running unless the battery is running down.

Good! That's something I had on my wish list back in November 2011.

[HIDblue]

Well, that's good to hear. I just pulled the trigger on the latest version V1.12-1111 of the TM11, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it won't disappoint.