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Thread: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

  1. #211
    *Flashaholic* PoliceScannerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Dont try a M31 on a single 18650.
    In no order: HDS/Malkoff/OVEREADY/McGizmo/Sky Lumen -PSM

  2. #212
    Flashaholic* RI Chevy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Definitely no 18650's for an M31. An M31 is only rated for .8 to 3.3 volts. Any single Lion will burn this drop in right up. An M61 is rated for 3.4 to 9 volts. Maybe you meant M61?

  3. #213

    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Oops -- thanks for catching the error!

    I was thinking of the M30 actually, which according to my notes goes up to 5.5 volts. I forgot that the M31 changed also the voltage range from the M30.

    In fact I have a 1x18650 flashlight built with the M30 and it is one great combination! It works great and no kaboom!

    It is a bit of a problem to keep track of all the voltage variations, especially since discontinued products have their webpages removed from malkoff devices. That's why I started keeping notes, but then of course forgot to check what the notes said...

    Still, I think that the M60 is indeed intended to be used mainly with 2 cells for optimal use, and the M3* for 1 cell, though apparently the M31 can no longer use a Li-Ion: so basically the M31 is intended to be used with 2xAA's when not used with 1x123 primary, which is how I use it.

    So, to summarize, if you want to use a 1x18650 it is an interesting question which Malkoff drop-in is best. In my opinion, the M30 is best as you get constant current regulation just as you would in the M60 with 2 cells, but the M30 gets the regulation while being optimized for 1 cell. Of course, with the M30 out of production, you then have something of a dilemma! Personally I bought extra M30's so I don't have to face the dilemma for a long while, given the excellent lifespan of these products.
    Last edited by flashy bazook; 10-31-2012 at 03:13 AM.

  4. #214
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by flashy bazook View Post
    Oops -- thanks for catching the error!

    I was thinking of the M30 actually, which according to my notes goes up to 5.5 volts. I forgot that the M31 changed also the voltage range from the M30.

    In fact I have a 1x18650 flashlight built with the M30 and it is one great combination! It works great and no kaboom!

    It is a bit of a problem to keep track of all the voltage variations, especially since discontinued products have their webpages removed from malkoff devices. That's why I started keeping notes, but then of course forgot to check what the notes said...

    Still, I think that the M60 is indeed intended to be used mainly with 2 cells for optimal use, and the M3* for 1 cell, though apparently the M31 can no longer use a Li-Ion: so basically the M31 is intended to be used with 2xAA's when not used with 1x123 primary, which is how I use it.

    So, to summarize, if you want to use a 1x18650 it is an interesting question which Malkoff drop-in is best. In my opinion, the M30 is best as you get constant current regulation just as you would in the M60 with 2 cells, but the M30 gets the regulation while being optimized for 1 cell. Of course, with the M30 out of production, you then have something of a dilemma! Personally I bought extra M30's so I don't have to face the dilemma for a long while, given the excellent lifespan of these products.
    The question about which Malkoff drop-in(of the currently available line) is "best" for one-cell operation is a very interesting one.
    I personally think it would be the M61, but I really surmise that Gene has moved away from one-cell operation, and has optimized all of his lights for 9v operation. Either 3 primaries or 2 li-ion cells. Some of the drop-ins are nice with 2 primaries, and ones such as the M61 still do very well on a single li-ion, but don't maintain regulation long with the single cell.
    I would say that this trend means that Gene has moved away from one-cell operation, and is optimizing for higher voltage. I have not read any quotes where Gene says this, but I'd say it is apparent from the trend.

  5. #215

    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by twl View Post
    The question about which Malkoff drop-in(of the currently available line) is "best" for one-cell operation is a very interesting one.
    I personally think it would be the M61, but I really surmise that Gene has moved away from one-cell operation, and has optimized all of his lights for 9v operation. Either 3 primaries or 2 li-ion cells. Some of the drop-ins are nice with 2 primaries, and ones such as the M61 still do very well on a single li-ion, but don't maintain regulation long with the single cell.
    I would say that this trend means that Gene has moved away from one-cell operation, and is optimizing for higher voltage. I have not read any quotes where Gene says this, but I'd say it is apparent from the trend.
    Very interesting insights!

    I think Gene has been great in following what the customer wants. Another factor must be the technical characteristics of the LED's/emitters. They can give great outputs now, plus good runtimes, but perhaps better so at the higher voltage ranges.

    As I recall the discussions around the introduction of the M30, a lot of people liked the versatility but also saw the possibility of a truly universal product in terms of being able to use both the 123 and the AA batteries.

    So the M31 came out and it was deservedly successful. I have several M31 types, including some in 1x123 formats and some in 2xAA and even 3xAAA.

    But, my M30's I keep for the 1x18650 format.

    For the M61 and M91 I personally run them in a 2x18650 and in a 3x18650 format respectively, which gives great runtimes to match their great output. But I wouldn't think to use the M61 in a 1x18650 format, as I don't want to lose the regulation.

    You are right that somehow through all these developments, the 1x18650 format has fallen a bit behind, and there hasn't been a recent offering to take advantage. This is something to regret, because the AW, Panasonic, etc., battery offerings have continued to increase their capacity and now you can get almost twice the 123 primary capacity in the 1x18650, with a higher voltage.

    I am sure that if there was an appropriate LED, plus customer interest, Gene would come up with something! For now, I hold onto my M30's and am happy I thought ahead to buy several.
    Last edited by flashy bazook; 11-01-2012 at 04:30 AM.

  6. #216

    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    There is a lot of versatility in the M61. I like to play in the unregulated voltage range to get what I want. For around the house I use either two LSD AA's in a MD3 or a LifePo4 18650 in an MD2. I'm quite fond of the LifePo4 setup and the flat discharge characteristics of said battery will give an "almost" regulated runtime of 3 hours(putting out around 110-130 lumens for the entire run---essentially a M61L)on a M61 and produce a low of a few lumens(hi/low ring) for god knows how long. Fry's was blowing out their K2 Energy line and their 18650's are 1500mah......had to find a way to use them:-) Cycle and calendar life should be tremendous!
    From the dimmest usable "moonlight" mode on LSD/Nimh AA's with Hi/Low ring to multiple hours at fully regulated output with multiple 18650's....the versatility of the M61 is only limited by your imagination and maybe a couple extra bodies!

  7. #217
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCD View Post
    There is a lot of versatility in the M61. I like to play in the unregulated voltage range to get what I want. For around the house I use either two LSD AA's in a MD3 or a LifePo4 18650 in an MD2. I'm quite fond of the LifePo4 setup and the flat discharge characteristics of said battery will give an "almost" regulated runtime of 3 hours(putting out around 110-130 lumens for the entire run---essentially a M61L)on a M61 and produce a low of a few lumens(hi/low ring) for god knows how long. Fry's was blowing out their K2 Energy line and their 18650's are 1500mah......had to find a way to use them:-) Cycle and calendar life should be tremendous!
    From the dimmest usable "moonlight" mode on LSD/Nimh AA's with Hi/Low ring to multiple hours at fully regulated output with multiple 18650's....the versatility of the M61 is only limited by your imagination and maybe a couple extra bodies!
    I loved reading this, I had no idea they were so versatile!
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  8. #218
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    I am using a M61w with the 1x 18650 format and I get 2.5 hours of continues use with good consistant output the entire time. The Malkoff site states the drop in produces 200 lumens at 6 volts (2x cr123) so I have no idea the estimated lumens produced at 3.7-4.19 volts (1x 18650) but to my eyes when switching back and forth between the primaries and the rechargeable I didn't notice much of a difference at all. A noticeable difference in out put was when I ran the light to the 3.5 hour mark using a 18650 (at this point the battery was done and the out put was dimmer). From what I'm seeing with my light and battery, 3 hour max runtime on a single 18650 before out put is noticeably effected.

  9. #219

    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by TweakMDS View Post
    Every time I read this thread title, I think: if your brand is the industry's best kept secret, you have some serious marketing issues...
    Look like some very nice lights, although I'm not so sure about the aesthetics. I was peeking around here, but they're nowhere to be bought in the Netherlands. Then again they seem to be quite active as weapon lights, and that's simply not a market here.
    It's a hard sell to people used to spending $12.99 for, at best, a Mini-m@g AA light. By comparison, a 2-cell Elzetta with low-profile bezel and a rotary tailcap is $101, not counting the $69 Malkoff. And this isn't even touching on the CR123 batteries, when most folks still think AA, C, or D. For die-hards like us, or professionals who depend on their equipment, it's easier to make a pitch.

    Elzetta had a brief run at a local camping/outdoor store in Portland last year - I doubt they sold much, if anything. The markets are just radically different. It's the same reason why Surefire doesn't sell well, if at all, to the mainstream public.

    About aesthetics, I really didn't like the klingon bezel, but the "low profile" is catching my eye. And the endorsements about the lens/gasket combo have just about sealed the deal for me.
    "We canít just go with MBAV because itís out there and battle-proven." - Fred Coppola, deputy project manager for Soldier Protection and Individual Equipment

  10. #220
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    I run my M61HCRI on one 18650 I usually top the battery off before it drops out of regulation.

    To me the perfect set up is a light that I can switch back and forth between one lithium ion and one or two lithium primary. The M61 does this better than the other Malkoff offerings. I can use one 18650 or two cr123.

    Though I do wish it was more optimized for 3-6 volts

  11. #221
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by TMedina View Post
    About aesthetics, I really didn't like the klingon bezel, but the "low profile" is catching my eye. And the endorsements about the lens/gasket combo have just about sealed the deal for me.
    I like the "Klingon" bezel. Pointiness aside, it lets me see if I've set it down with the light on, which is the main function of crenelated bezels in my mind.

    The round O-ring that Elzetta uses to seal the front aperture on their lights works very well with the M61 lense; I didn't even bother using the Malkoff-supplied flat gasket. Also, if you want super-durability, the M61 lense is the same size as a McGizmo-style sapphire lense, which you can get at The Sandwich Shoppe.

  12. #222
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    I like the Klingon bezel too.
    Brawndo. It's got what plants crave!

  13. #223

    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    I figured people had to, for the flashlights to be selling - I'm just not one of them.

    I've always believed that a Klingon was more gimmick than practical application - I'm not knocking anyone who chooses to believe differently, mind you, but it is a deal breaker for me.
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    It has nothing to do with believing in anything. It has to do with trying it and observing the benefits. Actually, another benefit I just remembered is, a smooth bezel will wobble if you set it on an uneven surface, but a crenelated bezel will settle onto the first three points that solidly contact the object it's sitting on. Again, nothing to do with believing.

    I think the crenelated bezel is pointier than it needs to be for my purposes, but it gets the job done and it doesn't snag on anything, so I ignore the slight imperfection of the points being longer than absolutely necessary. I would like if they were more rounded to prevent the anodizing from chipping off, though.

  15. #225

    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    +1

    I want the ability to run my 18650s that I can recharge. I have a Surefire weapon light that I only run primary cells in. I have a bunch of 18650s but have to buy CR123s special and I can't be bothered to try to find them. Not all stores carry them and they cost a fortune.

  16. #226
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    It should be possible to have someone bore a 2x123 body for you. The two-mode switch might not work without modification, though. I've had luck with it working on one 18650-compatible Solarforce body, but not on another.

  17. #227
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    I believe that the Elzetta can take the 17670 battery without boring. You might want to measure it.
    The 17670 has less capacity than the 18650, but is still pretty good and uses the same battery charger, and if it fits in the light without boring it, it might be the way to go.
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  18. #228

    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by twl View Post
    I believe that the Elzetta can take the 17670 battery without boring. You might want to measure it.
    The 17670 has less capacity than the 18650, but is still pretty good and uses the same battery charger, and if it fits in the light without boring it, it might be the way to go.
    I can confirm it takes 17670s.

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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    I just ordered a ZFL-M60-CS2D, which will be my first Elzetta, and first M60. If my wallet is lucky, my Elzetta purchases won't mimic my Malkoffs.

    Camillo Outfitters is having a Thanksgiving sale on some Elzetta lights and mounts . I found the info on the 1911Forum.

    Grizz



  20. #230
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Grizz you will love the finish. I have a 2 cell and 3 cell both w/crenellated bezels and M60. They are my favorite lights. Have a Malkoff M61SHO for the 2 cell and a M91A for the 3 cell on order.

    Enjoy!!!!!!!!!

  21. #231

    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    I let my imagination get the best of me.

    Last edited by BIGLOU; 11-21-2012 at 02:15 PM.

  22. #232
    *Flashaholic* PoliceScannerMan's Avatar
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    Default Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Nice!!!
    In no order: HDS/Malkoff/OVEREADY/McGizmo/Sky Lumen -PSM

  23. #233
    Flashaholic* RI Chevy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGLOU View Post
    I let my imagination get the best of me.

    Did you get it bored out? Or just experimenting?

  24. #234

    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Should be an experiment. Or shitty QA by Elzetta

  25. #235

    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    I got it bored out by my buddy who has a machine shop told him to take it down a couple of hairs from the ID measurement from the 6P bore he has set up for me. It was an experiment because I took my chance that the bore would have exceeded passed the Elzetta tailcap switch thingy that activates the Strobe (I got sent and got stuck with the strobe model) and it still worked.

  26. #236
    Flashaholic* RI Chevy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Cool. Thank you for the update. What size 18650 was that? A 2600 or 3100?

  27. #237

    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Ill put up bigger photos later. The battery is an AW 3100 mAh a 1500 mAh increase from the 1600 mAh 17670.

    Quote Originally Posted by RI Chevy View Post
    Cool. Thank you for the update. What size 18650 was that? A 2600 or 3100?

  28. #238

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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    That's very cool. I'm glad you were able to get it bored to accept the 18650, while keeping the low mode operational. I won't be boring mine, as I've got plenty of other single 18650 tactical lights.


    Mine arrived today, and first impression is that it's a keeper. It seems to provide more grip than the Malkoff MD2. The tailcap is shaped to be very comfortable, and overall it feels really good in he hand. I've also been spoiled with all the McClickys in my Malkoffs and 6Ps, so that'll take a bit to get used to. It also looks significantly sexier than either the MD2 or 6P.

    At this point, I'm not as thrilled with the M60 as expected, but that opinion will probably change completely once the Sun goes down. The spot is well defined and round, but the corona has an odd shape to it.

    I'd say the M60's tint is better than any of my non W or 261 M61s, with the M61 SHO being in close second place....so no complaint there at all. Worst case, I'll put it into my M951 mounted to a 7.62X51 AR for outdoor longer range use and put that M61 into the Elzetta, or maybe an M61 219.....decisions, decisions.

    Grizz

  29. #239
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzman View Post
    That's very cool. I'm glad you were able to get it bored to accept the 18650, while keeping the low mode operational. I won't be boring mine, as I've got plenty of other single 18650 tactical lights.


    Mine arrived today, and first impression is that it's a keeper. It seems to provide more grip than the Malkoff MD2. The tailcap is shaped to be very comfortable, and overall it feels really good in he hand. I've also been spoiled with all the McClickys in my Malkoffs and 6Ps, so that'll take a bit to get used to. It also looks significantly sexier than either the MD2 or 6P.

    At this point, I'm not as thrilled with the M60 as expected, but that opinion will probably change completely once the Sun goes down. The spot is well defined and round, but the corona has an odd shape to it.

    I'd say the M60's tint is better than any of my non W or 261 M61s, with the M61 SHO being in close second place....so no complaint there at all. Worst case, I'll put it into my M951 mounted to a 7.62X51 AR for outdoor longer range use and put that M61 into the Elzetta, or maybe an M61 219.....decisions, decisions.

    Grizz
    The M60 has a tight beam, and is a thrower for a P60 size light. Throws about 150 yds.
    Not a lot of spill. Good tint.
    No glass. Very rugged.
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  30. #240
    Flashaholic* RI Chevy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGLOU View Post
    Ill put up bigger photos later. The battery is an AW 3100 mAh a 1500 mAh increase from the 1600 mAh 17670.
    Thank you BigLou!

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