Ideas for a mega light

betti154 · Nov 30, 2011

Has anyone got any ideas for a big [moderation - unnecessarily vulgar term deleted] mega light?

I did a dive the other week and one of the guys was wielding a dpv mounted (and powered) 200w hmi from silent submersion.

Now I was packing a fair bit of fire power in my triple XML primary (3amp /w optic) and 2 heads video setup of 9 xmls (2.2amp no optic).
The HMI (or death ray as they call it) was clearly more powerful and I felt inferior.

Given this I'm on a mission to build something bigger as an off camera lighting option. That much light too near the camera will just flare out, so it has to be something with a fair bit of throw and be used by model no cameraman. I'm thinking 40-60 degrees would be nice.

I've considered the following:

- 18 single xmls with single optics (very laborious)
- 6 triple xmls with optics (makes head very big)

Drive it using multiple h6flex drivers.

I'd like to use 12-14v power sources. 4S or 5S lipo big blocks might do the trick.

Housing will be custom but I'd like to keep the head within 120mm OD but smaller the better. I assume a cable to external battery can is a fact of life, but not desirable.

Ideas, suggestion and/or condemnation welcome.

Packhorse · Nov 30, 2011

Really you need to find an optic that suits and then use as many as you can fit while at the same time finding a way to wire them all up to represent a desirable load.

To be honest I hate to admit it but you are probably better off with HID. It will be cheaper, more efficient and simpler.

betti154 · Nov 30, 2011

Do you mean HID or HMI?

From what little i know of HMI, 200w seams to do what I want but is rather large when you factor the in the driver. Definitely not cheap either At $600-1000 or bulb, ballast and igniter. I didn't imagine an LED solution would be all that cheap, but $400-500 should do it on LEDs, drivers and optics.

Historically, HID technology and I haven't been the best of friend as I'm like to turn it on and off on my schedule, not its. Bulbs didn't last too long and they had all that brown/grey burn on them. I was hoping to get abetted colour temp out of LED too, HID blows for video in that regard (for my liking anyway).

This is a pic of the SS monster.

Regards,
Damien Siviero
http://damiensiviero.com

lucca brassi · Nov 30, 2011

HMI = HID same [moderation - unnecessarily vulgar term deleted] ,-)

Hydrargyrum medium-arc iodide, or HMI, is a Osram brand metal-halide gas discharge medium arc-length lamp manufactured for the film and entertainment industry. Hydrargyrum is Latin for mercury (Hg). The term HMI has become a genericized trademark for all similar high-quality metal-halide lamps made for film and entertainment, regardless of manufacturer.
An HMI lamp uses mercury vapour mixed with metal halides in a quartz-glass envelope, with two tungsten electrodes of medium arc separation. Unlike traditional lighting units using incandescent light bulbs, HMIs need electrical ballasts, which are separated from the head via a header cable, to limit current and supply the proper voltage. The lamp operates by creating an electrical arc between two electrodes within the bulb that excites the pressurized mercury vapour and metal halides, and provides very high light output with greater efficacy than incandescent lighting units. The efficiency advantage is near fourfold, with approximately 85–108 lumens per watt of electricity. Unlike tungsten-halogen lamps where the halide gas is used to regenerate the filament and keep the evaporated tungsten from darkening, the mercury vapour and the metal halides in HMI lamps are what emit the light. The high CRI and color temperature are due to the specific lamp chemistries.

maybe the simpliest way is to buy used reflector (with balast ) on eBay and put it in proper housing with DC/AC inverter . Looking on German ebay smaller reflectors are not so expensive

betti154 · Nov 30, 2011

lucca brassi said:
HMI = HID same poop ,-)

I thought they were in the same family, didn't know they were the same thing with a 'commerical' name.

Codiak · Dec 1, 2011

I'm a firm believer in "Quantity having a quality all it's own" and using single light source for photography is just non optimal on land or sea, even IF it's the sun ;-)

So I've been toying with the following concept framing where the lights are removable and independently controlled and an expectation that I'd potentially have 2 of these beasts at some point.
Kinda why I was asking about water plugable connectors in another thread, the ability to pull a head and attach to a backup battery canister as a drop light makes me drool.

The two heads I'm playing with currently are a spot using an XM-L at 3Amps and the AHorton Aspheric and the one shown below which is 6 XP-Gs at 1.5AMP and no optics. (XP-G head has random on/off issue *sigh)
I'm willing to trade lumens for higher CRI, thus the XP-Gs which are 90+ but frankly the LED I really want to try is this one from cutter http://cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1107
I still have no clue what driver(s) would be best for this baby though. (Suggestions????)
Other options later would be high output UV.

betti154 · Dec 1, 2011

How big is that multi led head in that cad image? I'm thinking about something like that, where each circle is an XML triple. I'm thinking 6 x triples powered by 3 x h6flex drivers (each driving 2 triple boards with various power levels). Unfortunately this will mean 3 piezo buttons as I'm told you can't run multiple flex drivers off one switch. My biggest issue is the size of the job, which won't fit on my little lathe.

The other driver I quite like is the rcd-24, but it can only go to 1200ma. I've found 2 in parallel driving a XML triple at 2400ma hits the sweet spot though in terms of output and efficiency for my mind anyway. They're so simple, don't need heat sinking and leave nothing exposed electrically so you can poke them in any old housing without too much concern. They also take up to 36v I think so work on almost any battery. Only issue is you need an external switch, not piezos which I like.

Regards,
Damien Siviero
http://damiensiviero.com

Codiak · Dec 1, 2011

betti154 said:
How big is that multi led head in that cad image? I'm thinking about something like that, where each circle is an XML triple. I'm thinking 6 x triples powered by 3 x h6flex drivers (each driving 2 triple boards with various power levels). Unfortunately this will mean 3 piezo buttons as I'm told you can't run multiple flex drivers off one switch. My biggest issue is the size of the job, which won't fit on my little lathe.

Each cell is a cut down D-Mag at 39.5mm, the diameter of the frame is 130mm by 10mm thick (thickness can vary)

I only have a mini-lathe myself, so the large frame would be sculpted from a simple clay mold using liquid plastic http://www.smooth-on.com/Urethane-Plastic-a/c5_1120_1209/index.html

betti154 · Dec 2, 2011

Codiak said:
Each cell is a cut down D-Mag at 39.5mm, the diameter of the frame is 130mm by 10mm thick (thickness can vary)

I only have a mini-lathe myself, so the large frame would be sculpted from a simple clay mold using liquid plastic http://www.smooth-on.com/Urethane-Plastic-a/c5_1120_1209/index.html

Interesting approach with the plastic moulding approach. I was thinking one big sucker, but sanity might prevail with a modular design.

Regards,
Damien Siviero
http://damiensiviero.com

DM51 · Dec 2, 2011

Members are reminded that this is a family-oriented forum. Please do not use inappropriate or vulgar language.

Barbarin · Dec 2, 2011

Get a new Citizen CLL050 COB 5000ºK , with 17000 lm @ 200 Watt. That one would be a killer. I saw them in action, and in fact I'm using them for more boring things such as street lights.

Barbarin · Dec 2, 2011

More information con Citizen COB LEDs.

In short, with models CLL050, CLL040 and CLL030 you are getting 17500, 12000 and 5700 lm respectively. Sure, because of its footprint you are going to need a big reflector, but not as big as with regular COB's, because its diameter is quite small, 33 mm, 22 mm and 14 mm.

Regards,

Javier

350xfire · Dec 3, 2011

How about 16,000 SST-90's running on a 46,000 18650 battery pack charged by a 10KW solar panel array! That should make about 40,000,000 lumens...

Codiak · Dec 3, 2011

350xfire said:
How about 16,000 SST-90's running on a 46,000 18650 battery pack charged by a 10KW solar panel array! That should make about 40,000,000 lumens...

I like it... Now to find some VC

Dashrynn · Dec 4, 2011

350xfire said:
How about 16,000 SST-90's running on a 46,000 18650 battery pack charged by a 10KW solar panel array! That should make about 40,000,000 lumens...

Gosh while you're at it build a nuclear plant.

One xml is pretty freaking bright, maybe for a video light you could put 16 in there and call it a day...a 160watt light will be killer for video.

betti154 · Dec 4, 2011

I've thought about this some more and whilst 16,000 SST-90's sounds appealing, I think 18 XML's might be more realistic. I also looked into the HMI/HID solution and it doesn't seem that attractive to me from a size, cost, knowledge and effort perspective.

Running some quick numbers on cost of an LED solution:

18 * 20mm XMLs - $110
18 * single optics 15 degrees each - $40
3 * h6flex drivers - $150
3 * Apem Piezos - $120
2 * 6000mah lipo 4S batteries - $130
Stock - $100
Hardware - $50

Rough total - $700, for up to 18,000 lumen.

To me this makes a lot of sense, though will be a fair bit of effort to build given the 18 individual XMLs need to be wired. I think I can mill the front bezel for the optics on a small CAD mill, so that part shouldn't be too hard. I don't imagine heat sinking will be too much of an issue with ~140mm OD of alloy making up the main part of the head.

HID solutions were $600+ and then I'd have to deal with the power issues.

Codiak · Dec 4, 2011

betti154 said:
I've thought about this some more and whilst 16,000 SST-90's sounds appealing, I think 18 XML's might be more realistic. I also looked into the HMI/HID solution and it doesn't seem that attractive to me from a size, cost, knowledge and effort perspective.

Running some quick numbers on cost of an LED solution:

18 * 20mm XMLs - $110
18 * single optics 15 degrees each - $40
3 * h6flex drivers - $150
3 * Apem Piezos - $120
2 * 6000mah lipo 4S batteries - $130
Stock - $100
Hardware - $50

Rough total - $700, for up to 18,000 lumen.

To me this makes a lot of sense, though will be a fair bit of effort to build given the 18 individual XMLs need to be wired. I think I can mill the front bezel for the optics on a small CAD mill, so that part shouldn't be too hard. I don't imagine heat sinking will be too much of an issue with ~140mm OD of alloy making up the main part of the head.

HID solutions were $600+ and then I'd have to deal with the power issues.

I'm find these XM-Ls more interesting do to high CRI values http://cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1107 with the 20degree Cute-3m optics.
The input power changes for these XM-Ls requiring 6volt and 2Amps per LED which is limiting driver of choices. From Taskled its looking like the HC66 is the only option for a 2Amp driver.
Additionally, I plan on using the Halltg rather than the Piezo.... I hate magnites, but a simple on off is all I want right now.
and Stock for me = 7 Mags ;-)

Given that Cutter isn't shipping these yet not a lot of testing can I do.

However,
7 x 3-up Cutter XMLs - $210
7 x Optics - $35

betti154 · Dec 4, 2011

I'll have to look some more at those U3 XMLs. I very much like the quality of the warmer light, but found I was compromising on intensity too much with the warmer XMLs. I have two light heads with 5 XMLs at 3000ma, and the 6000K has a notably high impact underwater than the 4000K version.

I initially ruled out using 6 * triple XML boards and optics because I couldn't drill the 35mm holes into the bezel. I might revisit that now since I'm going to use the computerised mill. Will making wiring much easier, though the HEAD Will be deeper due to deeper optics.

Codiak · Dec 5, 2011

It's more about total spectrum than how bright with the higher CRI.
For all those lumens your trading too much red.

betti154 · Dec 5, 2011

Codiak said:
It's more about total spectrum than how bright with the higher CRI.
For all those lumens your trading too much red.

Funny, I looked at it from the other direction. No point having the best colour if I can't expose the image to begin with.

I've also found really warm light can look odd in cooler water that we typical dive in. Eg Rust on wrecks look too red, etc...

Regards,
Damien Siviero
http://damiensiviero.com

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