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Thread: HDS Systems EDC # 16

  1. #1171
    Flashaholic someguy4747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackyl View Post
    I got a Rotary 200 on the way! Does anyone have a glo ring around the emitter? Pics? Do you know what size?
    Why don't you use the locator flash? It blinks once every 3 seconds on the lowest moonlight mode so you can find it in the dark. It is a great feature. It will run for 37 months on this mode! As soon as I realized it would run for 37 months I have used the setting. It has come in handy several times and I always use it on my nightstand. I don't knock my light over trying to find it in the dark anymore! 37 months!
    I sometimes use lights to make my photographs.

  2. #1172
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by someguy4747 View Post
    Why don't you use the locator flash? It blinks once every 3 seconds on the lowest moonlight mode so you can find it in the dark. It is a great feature. It will run for 37 months on this mode! As soon as I realized it would run for 37 months I have used the setting. It has come in handy several times and I always use it on my nightstand. I don't knock my light over trying to find it in the dark anymore! 37 months!
    Thanks for the tip on that. I knew the locator flash was a selectable option but thought it would sap the battery a lot sooner than that. Where are you coming up with the "37 months"?

  3. #1173
    Flashaholic someguy4747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashlike View Post
    Thanks for the tip on that. I knew the locator flash was a selectable option but thought it would sap the battery a lot sooner than that. Where are you coming up with the "37 months"?
    Gotta love CPF cause somebody did a runtime test of course!

    http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...ost-204)/page9
    I sometimes use lights to make my photographs.

  4. #1174

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by someguy4747 View Post
    That test was done on a 2006 series HDS EDC. I believe the current models are vastly less efficient in low level, and would presume this to be the case with locator beacon as well. Did I miss something? Until I see such a test run on a current model, I am highly skeptical.

  5. #1175
    Flashaholic Slumber Pass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fnj View Post
    That test was done on a 2006 series HDS EDC. I believe the current models are vastly less efficient in low level, and would presume this to be the case with locator beacon as well. Did I miss something? Until I see such a test run on a current model, I am highly skeptical.
    True, but if the current line-up is half as efficient as the "2006 series", that is still a freakin long time.
    Last edited by Slumber Pass; 04-16-2012 at 12:08 AM.

  6. #1176
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by fnj View Post
    That test was done on a 2006 series HDS EDC. I believe the current models are vastly less efficient in low level, and would presume this to be the case with locator beacon as well. Did I miss something? Until I see such a test run on a current model, I am highly skeptical.
    Why are the current models vastly less efficient in low level?
    I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. Jesus Christ - John 12:46

  7. #1177

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by LightWalker View Post
    Why are the current models vastly less efficient in low level?
    Because the design tradeoff now favors better efficiency on the high end.

  8. #1178
    Flashaholic* derfyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Also, the older line was using PWM in the lower settings, so a bit more efficient. AFAIK, the newest ones are 100% current regulated.

    (I might be wrong though but I never seen any PWM signs on my Clicky...)
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  9. #1179
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by derfyled View Post
    Also, the older line was using PWM in the lower settings, so a bit more efficient. AFAIK, the newest ones are 100% current regulated.

    (I might be wrong though but I never seen any PWM signs on my Clicky...)
    Is PWM more efficient? I have the impression constant current regulation would be more efficient but I may be wrong.
    The love of light is the reason why I don't walk in darkness. But darkness has it's beauty...Sadly, my lights are much more beautiful!!
    Beam shots Night Trekking with HDS high CRI and McGizmo Haiku & Mule high CRI

  10. #1180
    Flashaholic* derfyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by pjandyho View Post
    Is PWM more efficient? I have the impression constant current regulation would be more efficient but I may be wrong.
    Again, I might be wrong.

    From what I know, PWM will be more efficient in low levels since there is no energy lost in heat.
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  11. #1181
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by derfyled View Post
    Again, I might be wrong.

    From what I know, PWM will be more efficient in low levels since there is no energy lost in heat.
    I will be honest with you. My understanding of current and regulation are very basic. Wasn't trying to correct you nor challenge your statement, but rather I am trying to get a grasp of what is right and what is wrong so I know what to look for in future purchases. Whatever I know comes from all the reading here in CPF, of course that means that sometimes I may get the wrong info. What I have read is that one don't necessarily save power by running on low output using PWM because the circuitry is essentially running at high output pulses. The pulsing is what helps in giving the impression of a low output. Not sure if I sound right here. Whatever it is, I don't even know how the low output could be achieved just by PWM action alone. Maybe someone can clarify?
    The love of light is the reason why I don't walk in darkness. But darkness has it's beauty...Sadly, my lights are much more beautiful!!
    Beam shots Night Trekking with HDS high CRI and McGizmo Haiku & Mule high CRI

  12. #1182

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by fnj View Post
    Because the design tradeoff now favors better efficiency on the high end.
    Of course we're still talking hundreds of hours of continuous runtime on the lowest setting, so nobody needs to panic about the reduced effeciency.
    Last edited by the.Mtn.Man; 04-16-2012 at 08:48 AM.

  13. #1183
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man View Post
    Of course we're still stalking hundreds of hours of continuous runtime on the lowest setting, so nobody needs to panic about the reduced effeciency.
    Bingo - I almost posted as much a couple hours ago and decided to let it run its course, as I often learn a bit that way too.

    Plenty of runtime either way.
    Marduke - Solitaire...I've seen matches which are brighter AND have a longer runtime. 光陰矢の如し

  14. #1184

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    There is no simple answer to which is the better emitter brightness control method. A linear regulator is not of much interest to us. A switching regulator, like a linear regulator, also puts out a filtered, steady output at whatever current it is set to; it just uses another, generally more efficient (over a wide range) design. A good switching regulator is good down to a point. Below that point, emitter efficiency drops off. I would guess that point is somewhere VERY roughly in the neighborhood of 10 mA for the emitters we would be interested in. OTOH, emitter efficiency drops off progressively, and eventually quite severely, as the current RISES ABOVE (very very roughly) a few hundred mA. The very highest emitter efficiency will be found over a pretty broad range in the tens of mA.

    A switching regulator also has inherent losses of its own; more (as a percentage) as its output is reduced. And the emitter will give you tint shift as the steady drive current varies.

    PWM "controls" the average current by simply switching the source to the emitter on and off very rapidly; so rapidly the eye is at least somewhat tricked into seeing a steady brightness (subject to strobe effects if either the source or some viewed object is moving rapidly in relation to each other). As such, the emitter is operating at full current a certain percentage of the time, and zero current the rest of the time. The emitter efficiency will ideally (and pretty much practically) be constant. If the current being switched is the full current of the highest setting, as it is in pure PWM, that efficiency will be substantially less than the emitter is capable of at less than full brightness. Then, as the brightness becomes VERY low, the same principles operates to prevent the emitter efficiency from dropping TOO low.

    (Pure) PWM ideally contributes NO losses of its own. It is just an on-off switch operating continuously very fast. And it eliminates tint shift.

    Thus it is impossible to say adjustable switching regulation is more efficient or PWM is more efficient. It is a more nuanced situation. At some brightness settings, one is more efficient, and at others, the other is more efficient.

    In the past, and perhaps in the present, HDS has (and perhaps does) use a COMBINATION of switching regulation AND PWM. This was to address tint shift, and most likely to give the best compromise in efficiency at both high and low brightness.

    IANAFB, and certainly don't have any inside HDS info, so this is not authoritative, but it is my understanding.
    Last edited by fnj; 04-16-2012 at 08:20 AM.

  15. #1185

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by someguy4747 View Post
    Why don't you use the locator flash? It blinks once every 3 seconds on the lowest moonlight mode so you can find it in the dark. It is a great feature. It will run for 37 months on this mode! As soon as I realized it would run for 37 months I have used the setting. It has come in handy several times and I always use it on my nightstand. I don't knock my light over trying to find it in the dark anymore! 37 months!
    Oh I plan to, but the wife is a little nutty about sleeping with "lights on". It's so bad she has to cover the standby led on the U-Verse DVR in our bedroom or she can't go to sleep. I just tell her to close her damn eyes and she can't see it, but it's not good enough...LOL. I just told her about this awesome feature and she was like NO EFFIN WAY! LOL. I'm sure bezel down would be perfect and I can't wait to get my hands on this one.

    Does anyone offer a reasonable priced ti. replacement bezel? If not WHY in the world not? This thing is begging for blue torch colored crenelations bleeding out into light gold.
    - SureFire 6PD / Malkoff M60-Q5 / Z59 Clicky
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  16. #1186
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackyl View Post
    Oh I plan to, but the wife is a little nutty about sleeping with "lights on". It's so bad she has to cover the standby led on the U-Verse DVR in our bedroom or she can't go to sleep. I just tell her to close her damn eyes and she can't see it, but it's not good enough...LOL. ...
    Lol, your wife isn't nutty! I have to cover up the standby and power indicator LEDs on my laptop when I go to bed because I like complete darkness when I sleep. I have to admit now that you mention it, it does sound a little weird.
    Still, I'm sure you guys know this but if you wake up in the middle of the night with night-adjusted eyes those small LEDs, while not that bright, can light up a room enough to navigate around - or enough to be annoying...

  17. #1187
    Flashaholic* kaichu dento's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    For what it's worth I also bought into the idea of having the locator flash, but found it distracting and after a few days shut it back off. Would be nice if it could have been lower yet and also had the option of longer periods between flashes.

    Great feature, but definitely not for all users.
    Marduke - Solitaire...I've seen matches which are brighter AND have a longer runtime. 光陰矢の如し

  18. #1188

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    In a dark room, even 0.07 lumen can appear almost blindingly bright.
    Last edited by the.Mtn.Man; 04-16-2012 at 01:33 PM.

  19. #1189
    Enlightened Darwinsdead's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    I like the idea of the locator flash but in practice it needs to be customizable.

    This is the response I got from Henry about the GITD rings:

    I assume you are planning on putting it under the lens - in which case you will need a 1x19mm. Use two to put one on each side of the lens.

    Or you may want to consider a 1x6mm under the reflector - around the LED.

    Anyone have any idea about dealers that are getting or have HDS back in stock?
    Still debating on HCRI or the 170t : /

  20. #1190
    Flashaholic* kaichu dento's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man View Post
    In a dark room, even 0.07 lumen can appear almost blindingly bright.
    That's why I don't even think of it as a super low setting, but rather a low that is all too bright in many instances of use. Looking forward to .005 lumen ultra-low on my next light.
    Marduke - Solitaire...I've seen matches which are brighter AND have a longer runtime. 光陰矢の如し

  21. #1191
    Flashaholic* AnAppleSnail's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by kaichu dento View Post
    That's why I don't even think of it as a super low setting, but rather a low that is all too bright in many instances of use. Looking forward to .005 lumen ultra-low on my next light.
    See our experiments on ultra lows we can't measure here:
    Project Lamplighter

    A similar project

    Yet another

    I find that 2 D-cell alkalines, a 10 k-ohm resistor, and a white LED is enough light to get to the bathroom in the dark. Soon I'll have an HDS to compare this output to.
    My biggest light-hog is my camera.

  22. #1192

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    I just ordered my "EDC CustomTM-built Rotary Flashlight" and it's going to be a loooong 6 week wait. I'll take some photos and share them with everyone once it arrives.

  23. #1193
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Thanks fnj for the detailed explanation. Now I get a clearer picture.

    Regarding locator flashes, I found it uselessly distracting too. If I were to need a locator beacon, if would have to be one using a very dim blue LED by the side or the tail of the light. If you guys had seen how some mobile phones emit a slow and dim beacon to show that it is active you will understand what I mean.
    The love of light is the reason why I don't walk in darkness. But darkness has it's beauty...Sadly, my lights are much more beautiful!!
    Beam shots Night Trekking with HDS high CRI and McGizmo Haiku & Mule high CRI

  24. #1194
    Flashaholic* pjandyho's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark-60 View Post
    I just ordered my "EDC CustomTM-built Rotary Flashlight" and it's going to be a loooong 6 week wait. I'll take some photos and share them with everyone once it arrives.
    It may be much longer than that. I ordered mine a couple of days just after the new year and have yet to see anything. Henry is now still clearing the backlogs.
    The love of light is the reason why I don't walk in darkness. But darkness has it's beauty...Sadly, my lights are much more beautiful!!
    Beam shots Night Trekking with HDS high CRI and McGizmo Haiku & Mule high CRI

  25. #1195
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by pjandyho View Post
    It may be much longer than that. I ordered mine a couple of days just after the new year and have yet to see anything. Henry is now still clearing the backlogs.
    I have to agree with you. I ordered my HDS in early Jan. as well and as recently as a week ago, when I emailed Henry, he told me to expect a few more weeks of wait time... I don't know. I just don't know what to expect anymore. I'm not totally convinced hes fixed his supplier problem or maybe he just has a massive backlog.

    So ... honestly you might have a better chance getting an HDS from a distributor. Maybe that's why there's such a big backlog - the distributors are receiving the lights first.

  26. #1196
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by Imon View Post
    I'm not totally convinced hes fixed his supplier problem or maybe he just has a massive backlog.

    So ... honestly you might have a better chance getting an HDS from a distributor. Maybe that's why there's such a big backlog - the distributors are receiving the lights first.
    I've had a Hi CRI Rotary on order since late January. I've had a little eMail contact with Henry, but these are my words, not his.
    From what I understand, it's first-come, first-served, subject to parts and components on hand - so those who have been waiting longest get their lights first.
    Of course, distributors and dealers likely order in larger quantities, so that could cause a delay to anyone who ordered afterwards.
    A few folks have received clickies, so I think it's just a matter of filling orders for those. But I'm sure it's a pretty hefty backlog.
    The new supplier is still working out the kinks on the (much more complicated) Rotary - it sounds like Henry will have another sample to evaluate in a week or two.
    Actual shipping will depend on those passing his inspection.
    I, personally, anticipate additional delays due to ordering the Hi CRI emitter. I expect some parts will be in short supply for some time.

    Every communication I have with Henry is answered promptly, and he's straightforward about what's going on. It's just hard to predict ship dates on parts that a new supplier hasn't shown themselves able to produce.
    I'm content to keep waiting. The anticipation just keeps building.
    Of course, I had to get myself a semi-custom just to make it through the wait.

    - Tom

  27. #1197

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Are these now in-stock at battery station or anywhere else? I've been waiting for a EDC 200 Executive.
    Last edited by BIG45-70; 04-16-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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  28. #1198

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by pjandyho View Post
    It may be much longer than that. I ordered mine a couple of days just after the new year and have yet to see anything. Henry is now still clearing the backlogs.

    Thanks for the heads up. It'll be like waiting for an NFA tax stamp. I'll just forget about it and wait for it to suprise me when it arrives...

    -Mark

  29. #1199
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Quote Originally Posted by kaichu dento View Post
    For what it's worth I also bought into the idea of having the locator flash, but found it distracting and after a few days shut it back off. Would be nice if it could have been lower yet and also had the option of longer periods between flashes.

    Great feature, but definitely not for all users.

    Quote Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man View Post
    In a dark room, even 0.07 lumen can appear almost blindingly bright.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darwinsdead View Post
    I like the idea of the locator flash but in practice it needs to be customizable....
    Well, at first I thought that the locator flash would be the cat's meow. I left my Rotary 200 standing upright with bezel end down on my computer desk overnight (after enabling the locator flash option). In the middle of the night even that wee bit of light flashing between the bezel crenelations was rather distracting. I like the idea that Kaichu Dento suggested of having a .005 lumen ultra-low mode option -- if that could somehow be accomplished.

  30. #1200
    Flashaholic notsofast's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC # 16

    Does anyone know if the clip from the 170 Ti will fit the other lights of that generation? I am thinking it will but want to confirm from someone that has installed one...TIA
    Ra 120/XPG -R4, Ra 100w, SC50W, H51+W, SC31W, H501W, Sunwayman V11R High CRI, DEFT FTP, McGizmo HD45, MR. Bulk Ti Dragon/RPM set, Mini 123W, 2 olight M20 Warriors, Alu ITP A3 & Ti ITP A3.

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