HDS Systems EDC # 16

[the.Mtn.Man]

they are dramatically poorer in at least one way: runtime at lowest setting.

It has been discussed before, but I really don't get this obsession with ultra-long runtimes at the lowest setting. Under normal use, a current model HDS will delivery months of usable light from a single battery which should be more than enough to get you through any emergency situation you're likely to face, yet you guys are acting like "only" 128-hours of runtime on low somehow poses a serious usability problem.

[pjandyho]

It has been discussed before, but I really don't get this obsession with ultra-long runtimes at the lowest setting. Under normal use, a current model HDS will delivery months of usable light from a single battery which should be more than enough to get you through any emergency situation you're likely to face, yet you guys are acting like "only" 128-hours of runtime on low somehow poses a serious usability problem.

I fully agree with this. With 128 hours of runtime at about 30 mins a night can last you almost 2/3 of a year, and an hour a night can last you 1/3 of a year, much more than enough runtime for any survival use. Personally I can last the night with minimal use of my lights, that means using them conservatively as and when I need to spot something. I am sure the battery would last me for months, and provided I could survive without help until then. I love low low output but it was never for the reason of ridiculously ultra long runtimes.

[HighLumens]

Does anybody have info by Craig or Henry about the 219 nichia equipped HDS?

[Rolex John]

Well, thanks to the great review done by Snareman (and influenced a bit by the fact that I know him and have played with his light....) I have placed an order with Henry for a 200 lumen rotary. I called him up and he says they're currently running "6-8 weeks out." I'm also on a waiting list for one with an HDS vendor...so hoping that, one way or another, I'll have one in a month or so....

[The_Driver]

I fully agree with this. With 128 hours of runtime at about 30 mins a night can last you almost 2/3 of a year, and an hour a night can last you 1/3 of a year, much more than enough runtime for any survival use. Personally I can last the night with minimal use of my lights, that means using them conservatively as and when I need to spot something. I am sure the battery would last me for months, and provided I could survive without help until then. I love low low output but it was never for the reason of ridiculously ultra long runtimes.

The obsessing over the lowlow modes and super long runtimes has always been because they practical, but it's also a part of what makes us CPFers. We always want the best. Why do we spend or time dicussing a light that does 900 instead of 850 lumens? Why do we care if light does 400 instead of 300 hours?

[fnj]

I really don't get this obsession with ultra-long runtimes at the lowest setting

I fully agree with this

Look, my fellow flashlight aficionados, I'm not trying to push what I care about (not "obsession") in a flashlight, and you're not going to get me to change, so with that understood, the statement was made:

Clicky/Twisty has extremely superior runtime at low-lumen levels.

which is objectively not the case any more, and repreents a distinct design change. I merely pointed this out; I don't think it is widely realized; so why should it lead to contention over what people should care about in a flashlight? Anyway I'm not knocking HDS lights, nor anyone else's views.

[calipsoii]

which is objectively not the case any more, and repreents a distinct design change. I merely pointed this out; I don't think it is widely realized; so why should it lead to contention over what people should care about in a flashlight? Anyway I'm not knocking HDS lights, nor anyone else's views.

You do make a valid point fnj, don't worry about it.

I'm probably in the minority, but I love the locator flash functionality. I have it enabled on my 170Cn, which is my "serious" work light. I do not want to drop that light in the dark and be unable to find it. I also need to be able to find it in the middle of the night.

In my legacy light, I know it'll get 2yrs+ of runtime with that locator flash on. I have no idea what kind of locator runtime the new ACME lights get. I don't want to pick it up when I actually need it and have the battery almost dead.

So in some specific cases, the long runtime is a concern. If Craig actually does get a batch of 219 Clicky's, I'll have to think twice about enabling locator flash until I know what it's going to do to the battery.

[gottawearshades]

Well, first, I own >40 flashlights, so approaching this rationally only means you don't know what's going on here. To the extent that my approach to a flashlight is rational:

I only use the max on my pocket light for very short bursts, so less efficiency at that end means that five seconds at high is like 10 seconds on high with the newer models. I can live with that.

On the other hand, if I should find myself buried under a collapsed skyscraper or some such, I would want a lot of runtime, even on a partly-depleted battery.

Just my $.02.

I fully agree with this. With 128 hours of runtime at about 30 mins a night can last you almost 2/3 of a year, and an hour a night can last you 1/3 of a year, much more than enough runtime for any survival use. Personally I can last the night with minimal use of my lights, that means using them conservatively as and when I need to spot something. I am sure the battery would last me for months, and provided I could survive without help until then. I love low low output but it was never for the reason of ridiculously ultra long runtimes.

[P_A_S_1]

The obsessing over the lowlow modes and super long runtimes has always been because they practical, but it's also a part of what makes us CPFers. We always want the best. Why do we spend or time dicussing a light that does 900 instead of 850 lumens? Why do we care if light does 400 instead of 300 hours?

I agree.

What I don't get about the newest HDS and their drivers are the low runtimes suffer yet the high output runtimes seem to be the same.

[pjandyho]

Well, first, I own >40 flashlights, so approaching this rationally only means you don't know what's going on here. To the extent that my approach to a flashlight is rational:

I only use the max on my pocket light for very short bursts, so less efficiency at that end means that five seconds at high is like 10 seconds on high with the newer models. I can live with that.

On the other hand, if I should find myself buried under a collapsed skyscraper or some such, I would want a lot of runtime, even on a partly-depleted battery.

Just my $.02.

Lets face the fact, if you are buried under a skyscraper you wouldn't survive 5 days without water and without at least drinking from your own urine just to hydrate yourself. You don't need a light that runs 300 hours in that case.

[pjandyho]

The obsessing over the lowlow modes and super long runtimes has always been because they practical, but it's also a part of what makes us CPFers. We always want the best. Why do we spend or time dicussing a light that does 900 instead of 850 lumens? Why do we care if light does 400 instead of 300 hours?

Maybe you do, but I don't get obsessed with a small lumen jump of 850 to 900, nor am I bothered about 400 or 300 hours runtime on moon mode. What I am saying is that much as I love a light that does long runtime, there is a practical limit as to what is enough for normal use and what is excessive. Honestly, I am more concerned about the durability and reliability of the light than anything else. I am also a firm believer in carrying extra batteries on me wherever I go so that I could enjoy my lights as and when and as much as I want to, just because I am a flashaholic. The last thing I want to do is stinge on the batteries so that my lights could run for months. I am sure that's not what you meant specifically, but since you mentioned something about that's what makes us CPFers. I think being a CPFer is one that enjoys playing with his light as much as he wants to and not be bothered about how long it could run on 0.07 lumen. Maybe one day when a light comes along with 400 hours runtime at 900 lumen would I really be captivated.

[nbp]

Here is my thread on my super low runtime tests for my New ACME Clicky 140 and 200. Others helped out with runtime tests for Legacy lights. If you haven't already, check it out, it's a decent read and should help answer some questions hopefully.

Lets face the fact, if you are buried under a skyscraper you wouldn't survive 5 days without water and without at least drinking from your own urine just to hydrate yourself. You don't need a light that runs 300 hours in that case.

Andy, you're awesome; so right on.

[Cavannus]

I'm probably in the minority, but I love the locator flash functionality. I have it enabled on my 170Cn, which is my "serious" work light. I do not want to drop that light in the dark and be unable to find it. I also need to be able to find it in the middle of the night.

+1, I've enabled the flash locator too. Although I'm not a full-time explorer, I use my HDS in urban exploration (mostly underground) or for walking. I dropped my flashlight a couple of times, either in underground streams or outside among rocks: then I really loved the flash locator when the dropped flashlight was an HDS!

[P_A_S_1]

There are many aspects of these light that make them so appealing to us and while I agree low level runtimes probably wouldn't make the very top of the list in terms of desirability over reliability and beam it's still something that's important enough that it's mentioned frequently and even has it's own thread. Me personally, the most important aspect would be reliability followed by a good amount of runtime at a higher output level. All the other aspects of the light that make it great are also important, maybe not as much, but still important. Less efficient is less efficient and while you can debate the practical use in relation when you get a light like the HDS you want it to be the best all around and at the least maintain, if not improve on it's previous generation's performance.

BTW, this is no knock at the light. Mine has over two years of good constant use and overall I still am very pleased with it (other then some minor mis-click issues). I think once it has 10 years + and performs the same way I'll be ecstatic. Until then it's my favorite and most fun light but in terms of reliability my SF 6P is almost twenty years old and runs like it did from day one. I'm hoping to match this with the Ra!

[Greighps]

I ordered mine the exact same date you did. Henry said it will be at least two months still for my light... 200 clicky as well, in tactical. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

well i was orginally having it shipped to afghanistan, and being military he said it would get some priority, but i honestly didnt think that much. but i had to change the shipping address because i leave here soon and didnt want th light to miss me.

[tobrien]

well i was orginally having it shipped to afghanistan, and being military he said it would get some priority, but i honestly didnt think that much. but i had to change the shipping address because i leave here soon and didnt want th light to miss me.

thank you for your service, bud!

[tobrien]

I'm probably in the minority, but I love the locator flash functionality. I have it enabled on my 170Cn, which is my "serious" work light. I do not want to drop that light in the dark and be unable to find it. I also need to be able to find it in the middle of the night.

In my legacy light, I know it'll get 2yrs+ of runtime with that locator flash on. I have no idea what kind of locator runtime the new ACME lights get. I don't want to pick it up when I actually need it and have the battery almost dead.

So in some specific cases, the long runtime is a concern. If Craig actually does get a batch of 219 Clicky's, I'll have to think twice about enabling locator flash until I know what it's going to do to the battery.

so is the locator flash very bright? any idea on lumens? I'd probably not actually need it but it'd be nice to enable I suppose.

[Greighps]

thank you for your service, bud!

Thanks man, it is appreciated. always nice to see some people still thinking about us a decade later, walk throught the airport, and people wont even look at me.
and to keep it on topic: I LOVE MY HDS LIGHTS!

[Rolex John]

Well, thanks to the great review done by Snareman (and influenced a bit by the fact that I know him and have played with his light....) I have placed an order with Henry for a 200 lumen rotary. I called him up and he says they're currently running "6-8 weeks out." I'm also on a waiting list for one with an HDS vendor...so hoping that, one way or another, I'll have one in a month or so....

Gents - given the delays thus far, should I doubt what Henry told me about getting my order in 6-8 weeks?

[steve328]

well i was orginally having it shipped to afghanistan, and being military he said it would get some priority, but i honestly didnt think that much. but i had to change the shipping address because i leave here soon and didnt want th light to miss me.

Thank you for your service. HDS lights are the best.

[eh4]

I'll take on this project for my own uses. Honestly, holding a CR123A or an RCR123A gives you excellent advantages for making a dim battery holder. I would probably make it direct-drive across a coupla-kilo-ohm SMD resistor in one orientation, and feed a Joule Thief circuit the other way...so you flip the battery to make it brighter. No switch, only a threaded moving part, and low, predictable current draw in the first orientation.

Anyway, it's a trade-off, as all design is...

-Nice, I hope you'll share your results. I like the sound of your design and will take your design hint when I get to making one.Personally thinking that thin walled stainless or a sturdy plastic (pvc?) would be good for strength and light weight, no real need for heat dissipation. Super compact and light, minimal would be great.

Also for someone who doesn't mind spending a little chunk of money for a slightly bulkier spare battery carrier that weighs less than an oz, will give a sub-lumen light for nearly a month, and is a headlamp in it's own right there is always the ZL H30 series. If you wear a hat there is no need for the headband, clip does the trick, floody cri is so nice... Maybe the best spare battery carrier for an HDS of all. -two is one, one is none.

[whateatsrabbits]

WOOOOOO I got my frirst hds , a 170 clicky WOOOOOOO. I picked it up on another forum, in like new condition for $130 . This thing just feels Quality, It has the new clip and acme threads. It has a very tight hot spot yet the spill is quite adequate for doing close up stuff. All my other lights are a warm tint, I can live with this its like neutral. The modes are confusing as hell, I'm gong to have to read the manual. The led is soo tiny and the reflector has the lightest orange peel I have ever seen like vvlop.

Question are head and bodies compatible? I have a hi-cri clicky on order, I am going to change it to a rotary hi cri, could I lego my self a the 170 to have the roatary and switch the hi cri to the clicky?

[nbp]

No Rotary and Clicky heads are not interchangeable.

[Pöbel]

The RA Clicky series did everything the current Clicky series does, but still had better runtimes on the low levels. That's just the drawback of having the Rotary Option for the new Version built on a single platform for both clicky and rotary.

Yes, you are right, many will not use the low levels for excessive amounts of time. Some do though. When camping you can just let the older clickies sit on the low level to illuminat the tent, as there is virtually no impact on runtime.

[Ways]

so is the locator flash very bright? any idea on lumens? I'd probably not actually need it but it'd be nice to enable I suppose.

It is not very bright i think it may even be the lowest level, still easy to spot in a dark environment though.

The RA Clicky series did everything the current Clicky series does, but still had better runtimes on the low levels. That's just the drawback of having the Rotary Option for the new Version built on a single platform for both clicky and rotary.

Yes, you are right, many will not use the low levels for excessive amounts of time. Some do though. When camping you can just let the older clickies sit on the low level to illuminat the tent, as there is virtually no impact on runtime.

Better runtime at the low levels at the expense of runtime at the higher levels seems to be the consensus with regard to the previous RA lights, personally i require enough juice to last me a night, the current HDS clickies and rotaries do that, indeed on lowest they should last me 10 nights or more.

If i specifically want a low output level over a long period of time i have lights to fulfil that role for example a Varapower2000 maglite which will provide at least a months worth of light at sublumen levels on lowest setting or a PALight survival which will provide a couple of years of sublumen light. There are lots of options available and yet not one can compare to the versatility, customisation, ruggedness and ease of use that comes with a HDS light.

[Patrik]

Just an update for my previous question about the possibility for converting my clicky to a headlamp. Bought two of nitecores headbands for 1" flashlights. Verdict: The clicky is a bit heavy for the hedband, but a very economic and workable solution for making the hds a decent headlamp. Definately a good buy. Saved my the cost for a separate headlamp.

[kaichu dento]

so is the locator flash very bright? any idea on lumens? I'd probably not actually need it but it'd be nice to enable I suppose.

Whether it should be considered bright or not is relevant to the users perspective but I personally found it to be far to bright and annoying to use on a regular basis, even at it's lowest .08 lumen setting.

[RobertM]

Whether it should be considered bright or not is relevant to the users perspective but I personally found it to be far to bright and annoying to use on a regular basis, even at it's lowest .08 lumen setting.

Same here. IMO, I found that the locator beacon flashing at 0.07 lumens (HDS EDC High CRI lowest low) was too bright. Maybe if you were to leave it on a desk, bezel down, with the locator only shining out from underneath the bezel scallops would it be okay.

[bansuri]

Whether it should be considered bright or not is relevant to the users perspective but I personally found it to be far to bright and annoying to use on a regular basis, even at it's lowest .08 lumen setting.

It would be great to be able to customize the beacon level, at it's current level it lights up the inside of a tent like daylight every few seconds to dark adapted eyes.

[thaugen]

My New HCRI Clicky (acme threads all the way around and XP-G LED) just arrived...from the marketplace, not HDS...

All I can say is this light is definitely worth the wait! I like the XP-G HCRI tint so much I still have a Rotary and Clicky version on order with Henry and will not cancel my order. The tint of the XP-G HCRI is beautiful and in my opinion it gives the Nichia 219 a run for its money. The Nichia is a nice white, but has a bit too much pink for my taste. The HCRI XP-G is a nice creamy while.

Good things come to those who wait.

Here is a picture of my HDS Clicky HCRI, Custom Rotary 219 Nichia and some Spyderco Sprint Run Paramilitary 2 beauties