A "copy" ???

[jhanko]

The circumstantial evidence seems pretty high to me that the 2 companies are very closely associated.

If these 2 companies are not associated, then they would be competitors. Why on earth would a company give a competitor free advertising in their marketing video?

[Phil Ament]

If these 2 companies are not associated, then they would be competitors. Why on earth would a company give a competitor free advertising in their marketing video?

Even if they are remotely connected in some way, such as Sysmax is paying someone a fee/royalty to be able to use the JETBeam brand/trademark, then Sysmax shouldn't be blamed if someone at Niteye decided to copy or clone a particular flashlight, because that would then purely be "guilt by association". All that I am really saying is, blame the right person!





P.S. By the look of some of the ZIP20 logos here, I wouldn't even be in the least bit surprised if Zippo decided to sue them!

[jhanko]

Even if they are remotely connected in some way, such as Sysmax is paying someone a fee/royalty to be able to use the JETBeam brand/trademark, then Sysmax shouldn't be blamed if someone at Niteye decided to copy or clone a particular flashlight, because that would then purely be "guilt by association".

Very true...

[dudemar]

The eBay listing is closed and they are no longer available on hkequipment.net

[run4jc]

Another one is the new "Balder HD-1" = Don/nitecore piston drive copy.

More pix of the spry duple oh sefen http://www.gooutdoor.co.kr/product_view.html?p_no=7110

Glenn7 - thanks for the link - the photos are fascinating...the attempts to copy the details... the battery cover release, the springs, the milling inside the battery cover....

The eBay listing is closed and they are no longer available on hkequipment.net

Now THAT'S interesting. Word travels fast.... guys, I'm not saying that this is wrong or anything new but some might say that it is "China incorporated..."

Oh, BTW, "Ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby....."

[fyrstormer]

Definitely a fast turnaround.

I have to say, there is one thing I liked about the ZIP20: the knob functioned as a dimmer switch instead of a multi-position switch. I prefer infinitely-variable vs. pre-set settings. Why switch between banks of settings when I can just have all possible settings available at any time? Sadly, that feature will die along with the rest of the ZIP20.

[compasillo]

The eBay listing is closed and they are no longer available on hkequipment.net

Seems like CPF has the POWER...

[bla2000]

Here we, Sysmax Ind (NITECORE & JETBeam) seriously declare that, we are NOT the same company with Niteye.

...

How does Sysmax Ind differ from Shenzhen Jetbeam Electronic Technology CO., Ltd? In this link posted on the Niteye site is says "Shenzhen Jetbeam Electronic Technology CO., Ltd will attend Asia Outdoor Trade Show 2012 with its two brands – Niteye & JETBeam from 26 to 29 July."

[badtziscool]

Definitely a fast turnaround.

I have to say, there is one thing I liked about the ZIP20: the knob functioned as a dimmer switch instead of a multi-position switch. I prefer infinitely-variable vs. pre-set settings. Why switch between banks of settings when I can just have all possible settings available at any time? Sadly, that feature will die along with the rest of the ZIP20.

I thought that too until you think about how the programming would work for such a rotary switch mechanism. As it is now with the Spy, you can have LMH, HML, HLHL, LLLLLH, etc.

Spys rock!!

[run4jc]

Definitely a fast turnaround.

I have to say, there is one thing I liked about the ZIP20: the knob functioned as a dimmer switch instead of a multi-position switch. I prefer infinitely-variable vs. pre-set settings. Why switch between banks of settings when I can just have all possible settings available at any time? Sadly, that feature will die along with the rest of the ZIP20.

I dunno - I kinda prefer the presets. Although I can see your point!

[dudemar]

Video review auf Deutsch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFmUVxRWHNc

Definitely a fast turnaround.

I have to say, there is one thing I liked about the ZIP20: the knob functioned as a dimmer switch instead of a multi-position switch. I prefer infinitely-variable vs. pre-set settings. Why switch between banks of settings when I can just have all possible settings available at any time? Sadly, that feature will die along with the rest of the ZIP20.

I agree, I like that ramping feature on the ZIP20 as well. If they acknowledged or paid royalties to Cool Fall then I wouldn't mind having one... but that won't happen anytime soon.

Looks like someone purchased one on eBay before the listing closed. Maybe we'll see a review here on CPF or another forum?

Seems like CPF has the POWER...

CPF is probably the biggest market NITEYE could tap into. It just didn't vibe well here. As Norm said there are folks who simply aren't aware of the original and may purchase a ZIP20.

[KuanR]

The Zip20 is still available on hkequipment, it's just no longer on the front page.
I was thinking of ordering some other stuff from them just now but stopped because I saw the Zip20 still there lol

[run4jc]

How does Sysmax Ind differ from Shenzhen Jetbeam Electronic Technology CO., Ltd? In this link posted on the Niteye site is says "Shenzhen Jetbeam Electronic Technology CO., Ltd will attend Asia Outdoor Trade Show 2012 with its two brands – Niteye & JETBeam from 26 to 29 July."

Hmmm. That's kinda, how do you say, "irrefutable evidence" that those companies are somehow related....

And didn't someone say that Nitecore and Jetbeam are related?

Just sayin'...

[fyrstormer]

I thought that too until you think about how the programming would work for such a rotary switch mechanism. As it is now with the Spy, you can have LMH, HML, HLHL, LLLLLH, etc.

Spys rock!!

I honestly can't think of a realistic use-case for a setup like that, especially on a light where the difference between low and high is how far you twist the knob, which takes a split-second regardless of which setting you're aiming for. When I used my Tri-V outdoors, I'd hold it "laying down" in my hand with my thumb resting on the knob, and if I wanted to instantly jump to the spotlight setting, I'd flip the light upside-down in my hand, rolling the knob along my thumb along the way; doing that, I could get to the highest setting so fast the other emitters didn't have time to turn on. A similar approach would work for "tactical use" with an infinitely-adjustable knob.

Honestly, if the SPY were available with an infinitely-adjustable knob as an option, I'd gladly forgo the programmable driver in exchange. As I said before, I never used that feature once in two years.

[fyrstormer]

The Zip20 is still available on hkequipment, it's just no longer on the front page.
I was thinking of ordering some other stuff from them just now but stopped because I saw the Zip20 still there lol

The website says "NO STOCK".

[jch79]

What a bunch of low-life dirty pieces of trash.

[run4jc]

What a bunch of low-life dirty pieces of trash.

+1 what he said

[fyrstormer]

I really think the name-calling is going too far. People here seem to have a mental image of a bunch of fat cigar-smoking businessmen sitting around a conference table and having a good laugh at their tricky theft of Dave's design. Keep in mind that somewhere in China there is a machinist who spends his days figuring out how to program CNC lathes to make complex shapes like this, who is probably justifiably proud of his skill, and now he's being told that the past several months of his work will end up getting sold at a discount in some Third-World country with loose copyright laws, in an attempt to cut the company's losses.

Swiping Dave's design was a bad business decision. Don't make it personal.

[jch79]

What a bunch of low-life dirty pieces of trash.

+1 what he said

But what if I was referring to all of you jokers? (kidding!)

[run4jc]

Come on, Shawn. It's not personal, and I don't think we need to be reminded of the way these things go down. Maybe I'm wrong.

It's tough enough for an entrepreneur to make it without having to have their designs stolen and mass produced. Unfortunately, that's the world we live in. I'm more concerned with the person who created this design in the first place than with the "skilled worker" carrying out the "copy work." It takes a skilled worker to create the presses that produce counterfeit currency, too. Almost analogous....

We all know that's just the reality of a global economy. I doubt that anyone here has any problem with that skilled worker, but again, my concern is for the guy up in PA.

Meanwhile, my opinion is that we've all shown quite a bit of restraint and John's emotional comment (and my support of it) are pretty harmless.

I'm out.

[jch79]

I really think the name-calling is going too far. People here seem to have a mental image of a bunch of fat cigar-smoking businessmen sitting around a conference table and having a good laugh at their tricky theft of Dave's design. Keep in mind that somewhere in China there is a machinist who spends his days figuring out how to program CNC lathes to make complex shapes like this, who is probably justifiably proud of his skill, and now he's being told that the past several months of his work will end up getting sold at a discount in some Third-World country with loose copyright laws, in an attempt to cut the company's losses.

Ok, I'll clarify my name-calling: I wasn't referring to the workers who made this or the employees of the store(s) who are selling this. I'm referring to the people who make the decisions to make and sell these.

Swiping Dave's design was a bad business decision. Don't make it personal.

You call it "a bad business decision", I call it stealing, and it's downright awful, as are the ethics (or lack thereof) of the people (or businesses, if you don't want to make it personal) who decided to do so.

[fyrstormer]

It was a bad business decision *because* it was stealing, so we do agree on the ethics of the situation.

[badtziscool]

I honestly can't think of a realistic use-case for a setup like that, especially on a light where the difference between low and high is how far you twist the knob, which takes a split-second regardless of which setting you're aiming for. When I used my Tri-V outdoors, I'd hold it "laying down" in my hand with my thumb resting on the knob, and if I wanted to instantly jump to the spotlight setting, I'd flip the light upside-down in my hand, rolling the knob along my thumb along the way; doing that, I could get to the highest setting so fast the other emitters didn't have time to turn on. A similar approach would work for "tactical use" with an infinitely-adjustable knob.

Honestly, if the SPY were available with an infinitely-adjustable knob as an option, I'd gladly forgo the programmable driver in exchange. As I said before, I never used that feature once in two years.

That's very true. I just wanted to say that part of the appeal of the Spy is the programmablity, whereas Niteye's rotary function wouldn't allow for it. You might not need the programmability part, but the fact that it's available can be appreciated. Of course, that type of discussion could get really lengthy. Just like whether titanium is really worth the price.

[scout24]

Not worth my time to have it fall on deaf, arrogant ears. Here, and Don's subforum, used to be the safe havens on CPF. First there, now here, not so much...

[dudemar]

That's very true. I just wanted to say that part of the appeal of the Spy is the programmablity, whereas Niteye's rotary function wouldn't allow for it. You might not need the programmability part, but the fact that it's available can be appreciated. Of course, that type of discussion could get really lengthy. Just like whether titanium is really worth the price.

I guess it's personal preference. The STFu board is a marvel of technology.

Not worth my time to have it fall on deaf, arrogant ears. Here, and Don's subforum, used to be the safe havens on CPF. First there, now here, not so much...

Agreed.

[nbp]

Not worth my time to have it fall on deaf, arrogant ears. Here, and Don's subforum, used to be the safe havens on CPF. First there, now here, not so much...

What do you mean by that?

[Phil Ament]

What do you mean by that?

Yeah I was just thinking exactly the same thing too, as it sure appears to require some further clarification by the poster!




P.S. I am also truly hoping that it doesn't really mean what it actually appears to!

[scout24]

Gentlemen, PM's incoming deferring to the fact that I'm in Dave's house. If you'd like further clarification after that, I'll let fly here and take the time-out.

Phil Ament- your inbox is full.

[Phil Ament]

Gentlemen, PM's incoming deferring to the fact that I'm in Dave's house. If you'd like further clarification after that, I'll let fly here and take the time-out.

Phil Ament- your inbox is full.

Not anymore it isn't. My illustrious supporter subscription had just expired, meaning I was instantly out of PM space, however it has been rectified now!

[fyrstormer]

The STFu board is a marvel of technology.

It certainly is. It also happens to be wasted on me. It's a necessary component of a complex light like the Tri-V, but for a simpler light like the 007, I'd personally be happy with a simple dimmer switch. (in fact, that's how I thought SPYs worked when I first discovered them.) The ZIP20 offered that. Unfortunately, Niteye didn't see fit to license the design instead of stealing it, and so the ZIP20 will probably never be available for sale in the US. That's not just a loss for Niteye, it's also a loss for Dave (who could've made some nice royalties), and for everyone who might've appreciated the chance to buy a "base model" SPY they could actually afford.