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Thread: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

  1. #1
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Hi everyone,
    I am in the design stages for a homemade 2xCR123 Titanium Torch using the Malkoff M61 engine and hopefully incorperating infinitely variable output using quantum tunnelling compound pills.

    The components i have already purchased from Oveready are:
    Malkoff M61
    Ultra Clear Lens for Z44 head
    Torchlab tritium SS Bezel for z44 head
    McClicky switch.

    I've also bought some qtc pills and a Tank007 E07 to test the pills operation (the E07 is suitable as it is a battery crusher type not sprung, as discussed on multitool.org).

    The plan is to isolate both the springs on the Malkoff head and the McClicky switch with plastic and brass screw in plates. The qtc unit will sit in the tail section which will be connected to the main body using quite fine threads, allowing the variable output to be accurately controlled. The torch will be able to be turned off without releasing pressure on the qtc allowing the same output level to be returned to immediately with turning on.
    The qtc will be sandwiched between two metal plates to reduce possible damage and eradicate pill movement.

    The features i want to aim for are:
    Waterproof to a depth of at least 40m (max PADI dive limit for all but professional divers),
    Tail standing,
    Tritium identifiers front and rear and perhaps along the sides,
    Titanium main body and head, but i'm not going to be militant about everything being titanium (steel is still better for some applications)
    Some anti role features, probably on the tail,
    550 Paracord lanyard hole or holes,
    Narrowed neck section to allow torch to be clipped into a tensioned spring mount like the ones you use on your workshop walls for tools.

    Now for a few questions:

    1. Will the internal regulator system in the m61 engine interfere with the desired function of the qtc and stop output adjustment being linear?
    If so this will pretty much kill that part of the design.

    2. Are two o-rings enough to seal from high pressure even on dynamic (to be twisted while submerged) joints? or is there a better way of sealing joints?

    3. Which side of the lens should the o-ring go? As i have seen them on either side on various torches. A bit of the clear UV cure Norland 61 arond the lens might help as well as loctite on all threaded parts that dont need to move.

    4. Are the McClicky switches able to cope with depth? i haven't got hold of one yet so can't tell what seals are present.

    Any help on these questions would be much appreciated.


    Current Progress.....





    Last edited by Tofty; 04-22-2012 at 12:57 AM. Reason: progress update

  2. #2

    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    -McClicky has no seals and is no way water resistant in the least.

    -Any Module with a driver board unless it is maybe an AMC current limiter style driver will not work correctly with a QTC Pill.


    Mac
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  3. #3
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Thanks Mac,

    I suppose the switch could be deeply recessed into the body and a sealed membrane between it and whatever is actually pushed, not a disaster but will require more work to achieve.

    Shame about the incompatibility between the pills and the driver but it's not the end of the world, i'll do some experiments to make sure but i have no reason to doubt what you said.
    I might try and incorporate some modularity to this torch so i can run it with or without a qtc unit depending on what engine i want to use.

    Can anyone recommend an unregulated p60 drop-in?

  4. #4
    Flashaholic dirtech's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    I would think the qtc would work to a degree with the malkoff. After all, the high low ring is a resistor like the qtc.

  5. #5

    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Actually the Malkoff M61 may work as it stated under 3.4v it will be direct drive so you may be good. I thought his drivers used Li-Ion protection but am wrong.

    Mac
    www.macscustoms.com
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  6. #6
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Thanks again,
    Thinking about it a completely linear output control isn't really that important, it's the low light levels that you want control over, say you want to check your watch or diving gauges while not loosing too much of your night vision then a well set faint light is a must but when you want to see as much as possible during an ascent just whack it up to full, no need for 90%. So long as some difference is achieved it ought to be worth it.

    I'll use this page as a build log so i'll give details of my findings. As well as lovely pictures.

  7. #7

    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    You'll find my trials and tribulations with qtc here: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do...ty-730630.html

    (While the experiment starts badly, it finally works in the end...)

    A few observations: qtc does dim a lux-rc driver. I don't have the technical depth to describe the nature of the driver, but I'm sure you can figure it out. My build won't go to full brightness -- maybe 80-90%. Given the erratic nature of qtc, I'd build in a failsafe that bypasses the qtc, just in case.

    Good luck!

    edit: turns out you need to be logged in to the mtbr forums to see pictures... the signup is pretty painless and they don't spam you.
    Last edited by borrower; 12-30-2011 at 12:22 PM.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Cheers Borrower,
    There's lots of useful infomation, but i can't see any of the pictures, any chance of a link to them?

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* Essexman's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    I've no idea about any of your questions, just wanted to say hi and welcome to CPF [I'm not stalking you, were just on the same forums!]

    Really looking forward to seeing how this build comes along.

  10. #10
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    This was all your fault! Well not entirely but you know what i mean. Ta anyway

  11. #11

    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    I didn't realise it, but if you aren't logged in, it doesn't show you pictures. Send a PM if you want me to pass along pics, or just sign up. (Easy process.)

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* Essexman's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by Tofty View Post
    This was all your fault! Well not entirely but you know what i mean. Ta anyway
    HE HE HE HE HE HE HE snigger snigger, I did warn you about playing with lights. I knew you would end up making something, it's just what happens. Good to have you here. I guess TX101 will be along soon to say Hi.

  13. #13
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Thanks borrower i joined the other forum as this way i can see the pictures in context, thats exactly the kind of system i'm aiming for, if perhaps a little more waterproof. The equally spread out pills arranged in a circle is exactly how i suspected it should be done. I was thinking of using two slightly thicker brass plates with an override being achieved by the middle of one of the plates protruding out so that when the plates are forced together as hard as possible it will make contact bypassing the pills. This will take a lot of fettling but i plan on using the whole of the tail cap as the adjuster so i just have to cut a very fine thread to give a great deal of control over the adjustment.


    Yes Mark you did, but i suppose it's the logical progression of lathe working, it's really just cylinder pimping with stuff put in to stop it from seeming like a waste of time, or is that blasphemy?
    Anyway it's nice to have something with a firm measure of fuctionality: watches are accurate, knives are sharp, torches are bright. The brighter the better.
    I hope Wai's still happy with her M1, i really liked it and now i want one, but it would have to have all the same mods. Something to go on the dream list along with a lummi which thanks to reading this forum i wouldn't dare be stupid enough to try and buy now.
    Last edited by Tofty; 12-30-2011 at 04:25 PM.

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* tx101's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Hello Peter, good to see that you have decided to join us. We will soon convert you to being a full time Jamie (and his Magic torch)

    The Surefire M1 you added the bezel to is one of my prized Surefire "Frankenstein" torches

    Now best get back on topic, I have just tried a QTC with my Malkoff M61 + MD2 host, it works.
    All I have done is place a QTC on the bare rim of the body and screwed the head on top of it.
    Ramps up and down as it should.

    From my own experience mucking about with QTC, is it really worth the effort ?
    Like you I also brought a Tank007 E07 and tried it out with a piece of QTC and as posted by
    others found that it was prone to flickering and just too unpredictable.

    If I had your skills on a lathe, I would pick up a second hand Sunwayman v10r (see CPFmarketplace.com )
    remove the reflector, LED and electronics and build a torch around that. The magnetic variable control ring
    on the Sunwayman works a lot better than QTC ..... just my 2 cents

  15. #15
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Cheers Wai,
    Since i'm planning on integrating the qtc in the tail cap along with the clicky switch it means only the tail cap will need to be remade if or probably when the qtc pills don't live up to expectations.
    I'll give it a go anyway as i like the simplicity of the concept and it's a chance to be creative but thankyou for the alternative recommendation, i just had a look at the v10r and it does look like a very nice torch, i might just get one for the sake of it.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Well i've finished the preliminary design work for this torch so here are a few renders showing the basic layout:







    These models are not completely finished and i'm not really happy with the appearance of the tail, it looks to bulky and the cut-outs look too plain.

    When i've got the models finished and cleaned up i'll take some clearer renders.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Well after far too long i finally got round to making the first section of this torch; the battery tube.
    It's not quite finished as the centre needs to be bored out to 17mm and a counterbore of 19mm needs to be added to one end, but apart from that it's pretty much done.
    I don't have enough o-rings of either type right now but i think i'll go with the GITD ones when it's all finished as they will complement the green tritium vials.







    Some parts including the tail unit have undergone some redesign since i made the original renders.

    Hopefully progress on new parts will be a little more frequent over the next month.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* davyro's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    I'm another from England who's interested in seeing your final product,its looking fine up until now Tofty,so best of luck with the rest of your project.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    A bit more progress......



    More pictures to follow tomorrow

  20. #20
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch









    Only the tail cap and qtc system to do now.

    THe full text around the head:


    Last edited by Tofty; 03-21-2012 at 12:58 PM.

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* tx101's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    LOL ..... Peter, the bug has hit you hard

    Titanium + all those Tritium slots

    The body looks great but the head IMHO looks a bit too busy

  22. #22
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Cheers davyro, do stay tuned.

    Thanks Wai, this isn't the only custom torch i've got in the pipeline either, check my brass torch thread on MT.O

    I must admit that the text on the head is just me being frivolous, without it the head would look cleaner.
    The knurling or whatever it's called is there so that the head can be opened or more importantly closed tightly, as the double o-rings make things quite stiff, without requiring a vice and perhaps while wearing gloves.
    I don't think it looks too busy compared to some of the heavily finned heads i've seen, perhaps the pictures don't help.
    Well i'm sure you'll get a chance to see it for real at the next London meet and see what you think then.

  23. #23

    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    tx101 is just jealous! I like the head design... looking forward to hearing how the QTC goes.

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* chipwillis's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    I like that One, and I want....

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* Essexman's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by Tofty View Post
    Well i'm sure you'll get a chance to see it for real at the next London meet and see what you think then.
    just as long as there's no snow!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Looking good, what optic did you go for in the end?

  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    That's a great looking host. I dig the raw-machined look. It would go very well with the Hope hydraulic disc brakes on my new bike.

  27. #27
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    Hope do make some damn fine braking systems. The finish is sanded where possible to 1000 grit but not too thoroughly, i don't think titanium needs any more than that.

    The optic is just the standard malkoff m61 drop-in, i tried my torchlabs triple xpg drop-in but it's a little bit wider so it wouldn't fit. I could obviously just widen the head but that would mean poorer thermal contact when using the malkoff.
    Since the body is only 17mm in diameter, running the triple with the batteries that would fit (2x16340s) would give a runtime on high of only about 20 minutes which would be go good while diving so i'll stick with the malkoff in this torch.

    I had a look in the events forum and the london meeting before this last one was in 2010. I don't mind snow that much so long as the next meeting isn't in two years time.

    The qtc will need the tightest tolerances possible to make it work consistantly well (i hope) so there may well be a fair amount of trial and error but i'm confident....ish.

    I'm still worried about making sure the boot is pressure sealed, i think i may have to change things. I'm considering changing the design from a hollow boot to a posted type.

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* davyro's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    I've just read up on your progress & i've got to say i admire your determination as well as your great machining to get this beauty up & running.

  29. #29
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    If you can make this design work well enough to sell, consider me interested. I've looked at Malkoff drop-ins before and I've always held off because they were single mode. If I could get an infinitely-variable host to use an M60F in, that would be outstanding.

    As with all my lights, the option to attach a clip would be greatly appreciated, because it means I'll actually use the thing.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic Tofty's Avatar
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    Default Re: QTC Infinitely Variable Titanium CR123 Clicky Torch

    I highly doubt i could ever sell this torch design, at least not as it is at the moment and almost certainly not in titanium.

    If the qtc system works as well as i hope then perhaps some kind of custom tail cap of Z41 type (to fit the surefire P/Z/G, malkoff M2/3/4 etc) would be a sensible option.
    It could work with any single mode p60 drop-in, not just the malkoff and would require no modification to the original torch.

    I do plan to release the drawings of the torch when i'm done in case anyone is interested.

    I hadn't really thought about a clip for this torch as it will be clipped onto a retaining frame for stowing while diving and with a permanent bungee attachment on the tail to secure it during use.
    Last edited by Tofty; 03-27-2012 at 03:44 PM.

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