Dangerous explosion with 2 CR123A primary

[Lucciola]

@RCS1300: Thanks for the helpful post. Good hands-on advice. I'll get myself an MBT-1 then. Or maybe the smaller model which should also be sufficient for my use. However if I really consider going the step to Li-Ions the MBT-1 would be the better option.

Protected RCR123 batteries would be better to use than single-use CR123 batteries. The protected RCR123 batteries have a circuit that disconnects each battery the moment a problem is detected (...) The single-use batteries don't have that.

Excellent point. I never got my hands on Li-Ions because it seems like rocket science to me. But the protection circuit is a strong argument. If I have to be careful anyway with ballancing the CR123 cells for my lights I should maybe consider getting some AW RCR123s. Although for my "duty" jacket the lower capacity would bother me.

[alpg88]

does the draw current matter???
would discharging 4 cr123 in series (quality brands,like Panasonic, sanyo, surefire, Duracell) at 350ma have less risks of blow up, than discharging same set at 1A??

[fyrstormer]

does the draw current matter???
would discharging 4 cr123 in series (quality brands,like Panasonic, sanyo, surefire, Duracell) at 350ma have less risks of blow up, than discharging same set at 1A??

High current output requires a high reaction rate, which produces more heat. Excessive heat always aggravates runaway chemical reactions.

[fyrstormer]

Excellent point. I never got my hands on Li-Ions because it seems like rocket science to me. But the protection circuit is a strong argument. If I have to be careful anyway with ballancing the CR123 cells for my lights I should maybe consider getting some AW RCR123s. Although for my "duty" jacket the lower capacity would bother me.

It's not really rocket science unless you want it to be.

When using lithium-cobalt-dioxide (RCR) Li-Ion batteries, always use the protected type. Even if the device has its own protection circuit, each cell should have its own protection circuit anyway, so it can be disconnected if it experiences problems.

When using lithium-manganese-dioxide (IMR) Li-Ion batteries, protection circuits are not necessary because the chemistry doesn't allow for runaway oxidation inside each cell. Recharge the batteries when the flashlight driver can't maintain regulated output anymore.

You can also do other things like measuring the full-charge voltage and amperage of each battery, and matching batteries according to their output, but it's not necessary to do so. Some people think it's fun, even if they claim it's for a good reason, but I've been relying on the protection circuits alone for years, and I've had no problems.

[GunnarGG]

I don't have a Quark 2x123 myself but doesn't 17670 work?
That's what I use in my 2x123 lights if I want rechargeables (unless 18650 fits).
That way I don't have to worry about multi cells problems.
I still use protected cells.

[Lou Minescence]

I don't have a Quark 2x123 myself but doesn't 17670 work?
That's what I use in my 2x123 lights if I want rechargeables (unless 18650 fits).
That way I don't have to worry about multi cells problems.
I still use protected cells.

Same here. One cell when possible.

[sidecross]

I have two Nitcore TM11 'Tiny Monster' lights with each having an Eagletac front diffusion filter. One is set up with 8 Surefire 123 batteries checked for equal voltage, and the other is running on four Eagletac 18650 3100 mAh protected batteries.

I will let anyone know if they explode!

[CampingMaster]

Both cells / first cell / second cell


My EDC: QP2L-X (new name for Quark X 123²)

-> 5.88 / 2.94 / 2.94 Sept 4-2012 ( Post #113 )

-> 5.74 / 2.87 / 2.87 Sept 13-2012


House: Quark X 123² (XM-L T6)

-> 5.92 / 2.96 / 2.96 Sept 4-2012 ( Post #113 )

-> 5.57 / 2.78 / 2.79 Sept 08-2012 these cells are now useless.

-> 6.50 / 3.25 / 3.26 Sept 08-2012 these cells are the fifth pair

-> 5.88 / 2.95 / 2.94 Sept 11-2012 these cells are the fifth pair

-> 6.00 / 3.00 / 3.00 Sept 13-2012 these cells are the fifth pair


My wife: Quark X 123² (XM-L T6)

-> 6.04 / 3.02 / 3.02 Sept 4-2012 ( Post #113 )

-> 6.06 / 3.03 / 3.03 Sept 13-2012


Camping: Quark 123² Turbo X (XM-L T6)

-> 6.28 / 3.15 / 3.14 Sept 4-2012 ( Post #113 )

-> 6.08 / 3.04 / 3.04 Sept 13-2012


First cell = near the LED

Second cell = near the push button

[fyrstormer]

What are you trying to say, CampingMaster? I'm confused.

[CampingMaster]

CampingMaster, you say you will unwrap and measure the batteries when they get depleted.
If they were in my light I would unwrap and measure them NOW.
And then when I think they are half depleted again and so on...
Just to check if they keep their balance.

I am doing what GunnarGG suggest to me on post 106.

If you have any other suggestions fyrstormer tell me and I will do it.

Ultimate CampingMaster

[smokinbasser]

I have a digital Fluke VOM that was my service meter as an industrial truck tech and I check all my 123s for their voltage and match them up for dual batt lights and multi battery lights. If they do not match up they are saved for single cell lights

[De-Lux]

Makes me think that the issue could have been a short in the light itself causing the cells to drain quicker than they are designed to and then Poof! Scary stuff.

Sent from my YP-G70 using Tapatalk 2

[CampingMaster]

CampingMaster, you say you will unwrap and measure the batteries when they get depleted.
If they were in my light I would unwrap and measure them NOW.
And then when I think they are half depleted again and so on...
Just to check if they keep their balance.

Following is an update of post #128


Both cells / first cell / second cell

My EDC: QP2L-X (new name for Quark X 123²)

-> 5.88 / 2.94 / 2.94 Sept 4-2012 ( Post #113 )

-> 5.74 / 2.87 / 2.87 Sept 13-2012

-> 5.40 / 2.65 / 2.75 Sept 20-2012 DEPLETED replaced with RCR123A

-> 5.60 / 2.80 / 2.80 Sept 22-2012 after 2 days on the shelf


House: Quark X 123² (XM-L T6)

-> 5.92 / 2.96 / 2.96 Sept 4-2012 ( Post #113 )

-> 5.57 / 2.78 / 2.79 Sept 08-2012 these cells are now useless.

-> 6.50 / 3.25 / 3.26 Sept 08-2012 these cells are the fifth pair

-> 5.88 / 2.95 / 2.94 Sept 11-2012 these cells are the fifth pair

-> 6.00 / 3.00 / 3.00 Sept 13-2012 these cells are the fifth pair

-> 5.88 / 2.94 / 2.94 Sept 20-2012 these cells are the fifth pair

-> 5.44 / 2.63 / 2.83 Sept 27-2012 these cells are the fifth pair DEPLETED replaced with RCR123A

-> 5.65 / 2.82 / 2.83 Sept 27-2012 after 30 minutes on the shelf ; these cells are the fifth pair

-> 5.68 / 2.85 / 2.83 Sept 27-2012 after 5:40 hours on the shelf ; these cells are the fifth pair


My wife: Quark X 123² (XM-L T6)

-> 6.04 / 3.02 / 3.02 Sept 4-2012 ( Post #113 )

-> 6.06 / 3.03 / 3.03 Sept 13-2012

-> 5.95 / 2.98 / 2.98 Sept 20-2012

-> 5.72 / 2.86 / 2.86 Sept 30-2012

-> 5.66 / 2.82 / 2.84 Oct 25-2012 after 20 hours on the shelf DEPLETED replaced with RCR123A


Camping: Quark 123² Turbo X (XM-L T6)

-> 6.28 / 3.15 / 3.14 Sept 4-2012 ( Post #113 )

-> 6.08 / 3.04 / 3.04 Sept 13-2012

-> 6.10 / 3.05 / 3.05 Sept 20-2012

-> 6.06 / 3.03 / 3.03 Oct 25-2012 update will be made with this one, I don't use it often at this time.


First cell = near the LED

Second cell = near the push button

[sog_sniper]

Not sure if this would help explain why mixing unprotected cells of different types/capacities explodes.

All cells have internal resistance, thus if 2 cells are connected in series and one of them have a high internal resistance while the other cell is still capable of delivering so much current (low internal resistance). This would cause the cell with high internal resistance to heat up and if the cell is not protected, chemical reaction will continue until extreme heat causes the cell to burst.

[daddo1]

Re the concern about breathing in the combustion products and should they see their doctor- Yes to both questions. Of course this was several months ago and hopefully they are ok. HF and sulphur oxides like SO2 are very dangerous. Please read the first two threads in this subtopic. If this happens to you - evacuate the premises immediately and call 911. Let the trained professionals make it safe. If you are left with the cleanup after the rooms is vented, etc. use thick acid rated chemical gloves from a safety supply store and don't get any of the residue on you., wash immediately if you do.

[LightWalker]

I don't have a Quark 2x123 myself but doesn't 17670 work?
That's what I use in my 2x123 lights if I want rechargeables (unless 18650 fits).
That way I don't have to worry about multi cells problems.
I still use protected cells.

I use an AW 17670 in my Quark 2x123, it's a little tight but does fit and works well.

[CampingMaster]

Following is an update of post #128


Both cells / first cell / second cell

Camping: Quark 123² Turbo X (XM-L T6)

-> 6.28 / 3.15 / 3.14 Sept 4-2012 ( Post #113 )

-> 6.08 / 3.04 / 3.04 Sept 13-2012

-> 6.10 / 3.05 / 3.05 Sept 20-2012

-> 6.06 / 3.03 / 3.03 Oct 25-2012 update will be made with this one, I don't use it often at this time.


First cell = near the LED

Second cell = near the push button

Update in red from post # 133

Camping: Quark 123² Turbo X (XM-L T6)

-> 6.28 / 3.15 / 3.14 Sept 4-2012 ( Post #113 )

-> 6.08 / 3.04 / 3.04 Sept 13-2012

-> 6.10 / 3.05 / 3.05 Sept 20-2012

-> 6.06 / 3.03 / 3.03 Oct 25-2012

-> 6.03 / 3.02 / 3.02 Dec 05-2012

-> 5.64 / 2.83 / 2.81 Jan 06-2013 TOTAL -> 4 MONTHS IN THE SAME FLASHLIGHT USING IT FROM TIME TO TIME.

CONCLUSION : there is no problem at all with FOURSEVENS cells. The mystery still there, how come my friend had an explosion with his flashlight ! What happened is the ultra rare exception, not the rule.

This thread does'nt reflect the quality of thousand of FOURSEVENS cells and it is sad that certains conditions made it happened to this brand of cells.

INTERESTING NOTE : Many Native Atikamekw from Manawan reserve* told me they tried Energizer, Duracell and others brands and the one which last longer is FOURSEVENS cells... ( this is the only brand that dare to mention on each cell : "1500 mAh" ) then, we continue to buy these cells with great confidence by hundreds for our flashlights - we can have them easily from the Canadian FOURSEVENS Web site at a little bit more than 2$CAD each.

* They are using mostly the Quark Turbo X and Maelstrom S18 and some Quark 123².

I am french speaking... then if you do not understantd this post ask for explanation in different words and I will try to do my best.

Ultimate CampingMaster

[DougL]

Given Helmut.G's comment that,
"Oh and since checking on batteries with a voltmeter or multimeter was mentioned several times, everybody please be aware that
the resting voltage of a CR123 primary battery doesn't tell you much, if anything.

It's only true for Li-Ion rechargeable batteries that their voltage correlates to charge condition," and since I don't believe I read anything since which refuted those comments,

How does one safely check two and four CR123 primary batteries being used in a flashlight?
Is there an agreed upon acceptable difference (in tenths or hundreths of volts) between two cells that would still be considered safe to use together?
Is there a consensus as to how often these cells should be checked when in the flashlight?
Does this mean that my edc should now include testing equipment?
Should I not use the box of 100 Rayovac CR123 cells that I bought through Battery Junction last year?
Can anyone point me to a youtube or other online video primer showing beginners a step by step as to how to use a voltmeter, a ZTS battery tester or other recommended testing equipment?

[välineurheilija]

I dont know how often you should ckeck the voltage etc.but at least when you check before putting them in to a light if one says 0 volts you know not to put them in

[välineurheilija]

And for using a DMM here is some info. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...r-measurements

[Overclocker]

It is unthinkable to imagine my friend “unwrapping” his two original cells and then “unwrapping” two new cells with the intent of combining two different cells.

not as unthinkable as you may think. just go watch a few foursevens reviews on youtube and watch them show off their spydercos to unwrap the wrapped pair

that's because most humans are conditioned to treat clear shrink wrap as something you have to peel off

i've even had some friends ask me if they should remove the clear shink wrap over their protected 18650, even if that would obviously spill the guts of the protection PCB. why? because from an early age we were all taught to remove the clear shrink wrap off of batteries

perhaps foursevens should start using a printed outer wrap with the words "do not unwrap". and pls don't make it clear!