Sealed-beam Conversions headlights

ronclark

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I have to say i learned a lot so far from your forums thanks.
Well i am looking to upgrade my headlights in my 87 Ranger.
I have installed relays for my headlights big improvement there, but i feel thy can be better.
I live in the NW it seems the rain and sometimes fog sure eat what little light i do have.

my question is if its really that bad to use e-code H4 sealed-beam replacements. as far as i have read its illegal to run anything but DOT stamped in the glass, i want to set it up so its safe for me and other drivers. i been blinded to many times i dont want to do that to others and waste money.
I see a lot of HID around here and i have yet to see any one pulled over for them not sure why, i just want to be that one guy how gets a ticket for not having DOT headlights.
 

Hilldweller

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The H4 ECE headlights are legal and you can get some that work pretty well ---- but that super cut-off they have does limit the total light coming out of the bulb.

I think that you can find GE Nighthawks that will outperform them. But don't be daunted by the legality of the E-code lights; I had the round ones in my Jeep and they worked better than the OE H13s they replaced.

Try Daniel Stern's website and look at the Cibies.
 

-Virgil-

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"Legal" for the purposes of your question depends on where the vehicle is registered and which conversion headlamps you're looking at (and what bulbs you install in them). They are not all alike.
 

scott011422

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You can always do a retrofit. I've making these for my Dad's Vett'

2011-09-06_20-04-03_10.jpg
 

scott011422

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Nope, Hand fab'd by me. The doner housings are cheap ebays. The projector assembly is an "FX-R" Which is basicly an aftermarket copy of the Acura TL headlamps, But modified to make retrofitting much easier.
 

scott011422

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How so? These outperform most oem assemblies? Off the top of my head, the only assemblies that rate better are the Acura TL's and the LS460's
 

Alaric Darconville

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These outperform most oem assemblies?

Of course not, but thanks for asking.

Off the top of my head, the only assemblies that rate better are the Acura TL's and the LS460's

Rated by who and to what standards?

The genuine Acura and Lexus parts were made by (or for) those respective companies to conform to applicable laws using designs, tooling, and materials designed to ensure consistent build quality and performance. The "replicas" may not be made with such precision, and often have, hidden from the eye, certain cost-cutting measures. It may walk mostly like a duck, talk somewhat like a duck, and look quite a bit like a duck, but it's not a duck.
 

scott011422

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I now see this tends to be a touchie subject on this forum. It was simply a sugestion, I only mention what parts I used to say it wasn't a kit. Further, Of course aftermarket MAY or MAY NOT be everybit as good as factory, That goes without saying does't it? I would have loved to get a set of TL's in there, I have them in my truck and they are such an improvement over my factory 6" round shared hi/low beam, But There was no room. So FX-R's it was. Personally, No shared beam illuminary can or will ever perform better than seperate dedicated ones. But what can you do!
 

Alaric Darconville

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I now see this tends to be a touchie subject on this forum. It was simply a sugestion, I only mention what parts I used to say it wasn't a kit.

Not the same as the 'kits' that just let you drop in HID capsules, but still not as good as real lamp assemblies designed for the vehicle by legitimate vehicle lighting manufacturers.

Further, Of course aftermarket MAY or MAY NOT be everybit as good as factory, That goes without saying does't it?
Of course the quality may vary. Guaranteed mediocrity is sometimes preferable to an outright disasterously made product. There are too many variables with makers and marketers of the 'replicas' (as well as the near-impossibility of finding a responsible party should their products contribute to property damage, injuries, or fatalities.


Personally, No shared beam illuminary can or will ever perform better than seperate dedicated ones.
Such a broad statement is easy to disprove simply because it uses absolutes. I can come up with a few examples (Marchal Amplilux vs. a set of rectangular Wagner sealed beams being a major one). Granted, you acknowledge that it is a matter of opinion, rather than saying it is a statement of fact.
 

scott011422

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Still not as good as real lamp assemblies designed for the vehicle by legitimate vehicle lighting manufacturers.

Not necessarily true, Not as good in what regard? Build quality? Form? Function?? Just like building codes, auto manufactures have standards set for basic performance and safety. Ie a "Bare Minimum" as it were. This followed by the cost of the almighty dollar doesn't get you the best for that application. This gets you the best costing solution that meets minimum federal standards. Just because it isn't factory, doesn't automatically mean its inferior to the OEM. Age also plays a huge factor. In this case we are talking about sealed beam headlights. Its not difficult to outperform these lights with todays technology.


Of course the quality may vary. Guaranteed mediocrity is sometimes preferable to an outright disastrously made product. There are too many variables with makers and marketers of the 'replicas' (as well as the near-impossibility of finding a responsible party should their products contribute to property damage, injuries, or fatalities.

All very true points. But lets not group all aftermarket manufactures into one basket. For instance, Does the aftermarket product in question meet any of the worst case that your talking about? Or is it an inferior product in your mind just because its aftermarket??? Are there better products out there? Absolutely! Are some of them OEM? Also absolutely. Do they fit every application? A firm NO.
In this particular instance, With the space available this was the best solution. It fits, It vastly outperforms the 1984 designed oem, it improves the safety of the vehicle for nighttime driving. It meets and exceeds 1984 DOT specs as well as all current ones as verified by use of an optical beam setter.


Such a broad statement is easy to disprove simply because it uses absolutes. I can come up with a few examples (Marchal Amplilux vs. a set of rectangular Wagner sealed beams being a major one). Granted, you acknowledge that it is a matter of opinion, rather than saying it is a statement of fact.
Yes, it is an opinion. But, apples to apples, I'll still stand by it. Your example is helping my statement. The Amplilux uses two separate reflectors and bulbs. Each designed for their function. The Wagner is using one bulb, one reflector. Thereby compromising not only the low beam but also the high beam.


Don't get me wrong, I do see your point. There are a lot of crap aftermarket products out there. There are even more idiots out there not only using this crap, but using the good stuff so incorrectly, It may as well be crap. I would hope that with this forum being for the use of and construction of lighting, that already would have weeded out most of the "cap backward Civic racers" For instance, This topic on other forums would have turned into, " I don't care what you say, I think I can see better so my lights are better, best! Glare? Who cares, I see better and the cops wont stop me!" lol

Anyway. Has the OP looked into offroad led light bars? Rigid Industries make some awesome off road lights and the prices are not to bad either!
 

chmsam

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I have to say i learned a lot so far from your forums thanks.
Well i am looking to upgrade my headlights in my 87 Ranger.
I have installed relays for my headlights big improvement there, but i feel thy can be better.
I live in the NW it seems the rain and sometimes fog sure eat what little light i do have.

my question is if its really that bad to use e-code H4 sealed-beam replacements. as far as i have read its illegal to run anything but DOT stamped in the glass, i want to set it up so its safe for me and other drivers. i been blinded to many times i dont want to do that to others and waste money.
I see a lot of HID around here and i have yet to see any one pulled over for them not sure why, i just want to be that one guy how gets a ticket for not having DOT headlights.

Try taking a look at rallylights.com (Susquehanna Motorsports). They're a great source of info if nothing else but they do carry Hella H4 conversions which are DOT legal and also some other brands. I've got almost 30 years experience in amateur rallying in all sorts of weather and that much experience in working pro events. I can't think of too many better places to start than those guys.

As for the rest of the thread, I don't know of any teams that would use a kit or jerry-rigged lighting setup. Rallying is tougher than almost any other motorsport I can think of and to me that says a lot about what to use and what not to use in the sport or just driving on the road. I know I what I would do at any rate.
 
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-Virgil-

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Shop very carefully and talk to more than one vendor before you make a decision. If you're shopping for rectangular H4 conversions, it's definitely a wise idea to stay away from off-brand poor-quality lamps, which means confining your comparison to Bosch, Hella, and Cibie. They're all three durably constructed of quality materials to OEM standards, but they don't all perform alike. The optics are different. For performance and efficiency my first pick by a large margin is the Cibie, followed by the Bosch. The Hella lags pretty far behind; it's not very efficient and has too much separation between the high and low beam hot spots: if you aim the low beams correctly, the high beams are focused too high up in the air. If you pull the high beams down where they should be, the low beams are too low and you have no seeing distance on low beam. The Bosch and the Cibie don't have that problem and are more efficient so for any given bulb you get more light on the road. Rallylights is a good vendor, but I'm pretty sure they sell only the Hellas. You might talk to Daniel Stern; I've bought a bunch of different brands of lighting equipment from him over the years (Cibie, Bosch, Hella, Koito, Carello, etc...) and he has always steered me towards and away from products based on performance, not on what he happens to have on the shelf -- in some cases this has meant he's steered me towards another vendor when he doesn't stock the best lamp for whatever my project was.
 

GuySmily

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I did a similar retrofit for my 86 mr2. I got genuine fx35 projectors, but that was before fx-r (replica) projectors came out.

Reflectors simply cannot come even close to projectors. It's totally worth the money, IMO... Except for crappy Ebay generic projectors, and even those can beat bad OEM reflectors.

I never finished the job (bought a 2005 Mr2 instead), but here are pictures.

http://guysmily.com/gallery2/v/mr2/mr2hid/
(I would normally just do img tags to specific pics but I'm on my phone right now)
 

Alaric Darconville

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It meets and exceeds 1984 DOT specs as well as all current ones as verified by use of an optical beam setter.
An optical beam setter only allows one to aim the lamps properly; it does not at all prove that the lamps conform to any other specification.

Yes, it is an opinion. But, apples to apples, I'll still stand by it. Your example is helping my statement. The Amplilux uses two separate reflectors and bulbs. Each designed for their function. The Wagner is using one bulb, one reflector. Thereby compromising not only the low beam but also the high beam.
The Amplilux is a single unit (yes, it does have multiple bulbs within, but it's a single assembly). For the "separate dedicated ones", let's use the road-legal Sylvania H4656CB "Cool Blue" for the lows and the H4651CB (again, "Cool Blue") for the highs. I'd just about pit my Koito-made HB2 headlamps on my Toyota Previa against that set and put money on it (so long as I've got Philips X-Treme Power HB2s installed).
 

ronclark

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Try taking a look at rallylights.com (Susquehanna Motorsports). They're a great source of info if nothing else but they do carry Hella H4 conversions which are DOT legal and also some other brands. I've got almost 30 years experience in amateur rallying in all sorts of weather and that much experience in working pro events. I can't think of too many better places to start than those guys.

As for the rest of the thread, I don't know of any teams that would use a kit or jerry-rigged lighting setup. Rallying is tougher than almost any other motorsport I can think of and to me that says a lot about what to use and what not to use in the sport or just driving on the road. I know I what I would do at any rate.

I have talked to rallylight that how i found out about sealbeam to H4 conversions. all the carry is Hella, but then i saw you guy talking about Daniel Stern Lighting and then started to read about Bosch and Cibie. Cibie seemed to best the best of them at least what i have read about.
Is there anything i need to watch out for buy have E-codes? I live in Wa state no inspections her yet.
Dumping almost $200 in to headlights is a lot of money, so i wanted to get some input before i go out and spend a lot of money on that might or might not work out so well.
 

Hamilton Felix

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As I recall, the Amplilux has an elevation adjustment screw for the high beam reflector, so you can adjust the elevation difference between it and the low beam.

I still have a new pair of 7" Amplilux that I bought around 1980.
 

-Virgil-

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I have seen many (I'm even confident enough to say "most") of the aftermarket "replica" projectors, and I have yet to see one that has been tested and certified or type-approved as compliant with any prevailing technical standard or regulation. Most of them do not meet the photometric, physical, and/or durabilty requirements. Homemade headlamps are already technically -- and also usually practically -- illegal even if they incorporate original-equipment projectors out of another vehicle's headlamps; when we (by which I mean you, scott011422) are talking about knockoff projectors never tested to comply with any technical standard, the lighting modifications/products you're recommending are illegal. Rule 11 of this board prohibits advocating illegal activity, so you'll need to please stop now.
 

-Virgil-

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No shared beam illuminary can or will ever perform better than seperate dedicated ones.

I think by "shared beam illuminary" you are probably trying to refer to a combination high/low beam headlamp. If that is in fact what you mean, then your assertion is not correct. There are plenty of combination high/low beam lamps that are objectively better than plenty of single-beam (high only or low only) lamps.

Reflectors simply cannot come even close to projectors.

Also not true. There are plenty of reflector headlamps that are objectively better than plenty of projector headlamps.
 
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