Ultra-runner needs help choosing headlamp

[gte861s]

Hello everyone,

I have been searching for about two days online and I guess being an engineer, the more I research the more questions I have and the more headlamp options I find. I need a headlamp which isn't overly bulky, I don't have a real preference for battery type, would like something which can be used in inclement weather for night time **trail** running...therefore important to see rocks, roots, etc and also have enough lighting distance to see upcoming trail junctions.

That being said, I started by finding Princeton Tec APEX (based on an ultrarunning article reviewing another light) then found Petzl MYO RXP then Fenix HP10 and HP11 which lead me to a review of the HP10 and HP11 here on this forum which is when the real questions started forming in my head!! . Then I started seeing references to Zebralights and haven't even began looking at them other than a short look at their website.

Additionally, after a headlamp; I would be interested in help from someone experienced with creating a belt/light combo (have heard it helps with trail running depth perception to have 2 light sources).

Not sure what my priorities should be other than I want it to be pretty firm on my head and not overly bulky such that I have to be adjusting it a lot. I haven't done any all night runs, but that doesn't mean I won't be in the future so battery life is also important. I'm looking for 1 headlamp that is overall utility - in other words, don't want to get a MYO RXP just because it is really lightweight only to need a Zebralight for a different reason.

Thank you all in advance for your help.

[icedmocha]

The zebralight h51 with niteize headband seems to be the go-to choice. The upcomung zl h502 sounds better but isnt out yet. Im in the quandry of waiting for the h502 or buying the h51 right now. NBs new minimus line isnt out until march either.....seems to be the time of new products.

[gte861s]

I think for the ZL H51, I would want something with a longer battery life. The M1 setting states 30 lumens which is too low and the 100 lumen setting has less than 2 hours battery life. Does the upcoming ZL H502 boast better (or longer) battery performance?

[Bolster]

I don't know what ULTRA running is, but maybe you need an ULTRA headlamp for that?

http://www.rei.com/product/786019/petzl-ultra-headlamp

I kid, I kid.

[borrower]

There's a few good threads here for running headlamps. You'll quickly be able to figure out who doesn't run but has an opinion anyway. Even among the runners, you'll get a difference of opinion... here's my checklist.

- balanced front to back for less bounce (so, battery pack on back of head)
- has a top strap
- under 200grams (I have a ~700 lumen home-made that tips around 250g, and it's bearable but a bit much)
- at least 100 lumens (more is better... for rugged trail, I'm delighted by the aforementioned ~700 lumen monster)
- floody, so you've got a bit in front of you and most importantly, your feet illuminated. (A beam that's too spotty wanders around so much as to be annoying. Plus you can't see your feet, so you end up landing harder than you might otherwise.)
- regulated, so constant brightness
- decently water-resistant

I usually run with a Petzl MYO RXP, and I mostly like it (but for brightness sometimes). It's pretty bright (but not regulated in its two brightest modes -- it just steps down when it needs to; the rest of the modes are regulated) and has a flip-up diffuser to go from spot to flood.

Pretty much any headlamp could be chopped up for belt/sternum strap use... I haven't done it myself, so can't comment. I occasionally use a floody handheld flashlight, which can help a bit (but also sets off my gait, as that arm doesn't get to move as naturally).

If you want the rolls-royce version, go look at a Lupine Piko.

[xcandrew]

I would recommend the Gemini Lights Xera. My GF and I each have one because it is dark here in the winter, and we run or ski hours every night/morning. The Xera is more along the lines of a bike light or night orienteering(running)/nordic skiing/adventure racing light than the other suggestions, yet it very compact and lightweight. I'm a fast runner who can often keep up with bikes on singletrack, and do a lot of running/skiing through the woods, and orienteering.

A quick summary of the details and some thoughts:

- Great stock optic - smooth, smooth, smooth and 800 lumens out the front on high for over 2 hours (if the battery is kept warm). 18 degrees, but with plenty of spill light so you don't have to shift your head at all to see both up the trail and what you are about to step on. Full speed ahead, even on rough trail or off in the woods where there are no trails.

- Optional reflector is pretty good too, and some may prefer it. It has a brighter and distinct spill, but tight spot is a more fatiguing to use because it is harder to hold it still, yet you need to move your head more look at something specific when needed, and the spill and spot are slightly different colors, which annoys me slightly. Based on what Action LED has done with their $5 wide angle lens for the Magicshine lights and imitations, when they comes out with their wide lens for the light, I will revisit my reflector.

- Both optic and reflecter are great for running. Forget the chest/waist light ideas that are thrown about in US based trail running forums. They are not needed if a light has a good beam and is bright enough. All the Euro orienteers with their 500-2,000+ lumen headlamps racing around in the woods can't be wrong, and they aren't.

-Small, lightweight head: 52 g, 58 g counting the wire. That's a bit over half the weight of my Princeton Tec Eos loaded with batteries. Headbelt is 44 g. With the 2 cell Li-ion battery attached to the headbelt, the total weight is about 239 g. In comparison the Apex is 279 g, Petzl RXP is 175 g. The battery can be strapped to a webbing belt and worn unnoticed on your waist, for an almost weightless 102 g setup on your head. You can also use the 4 cell battery on your body for double the run times. For winter, I'm finding that 239 g is not noticeable on my head because I'm wearing a ski hat anyway (which always improves stability of headlamps), and the headbelt is pretty secure. For use in warmer temperatures with faster/bouncier running, night orienteers like to strap their batteries to their bodies with harnesses or belts.

-Regulated light with 3 adjustable brightness settings (10% increments). Default is 20%, 60%, 100%. As I said before, with the two cell battery, you have 800 real(out the front) lumens for over 2 hours. I haven't tested the other settings, since they are adjustable anyway, but it would probably not be too far off to say you can have about 400 lumens for 4 hours, and maybe 200 lumens all night with the smaller battery.

-Light blinks to warn of low battery. The lighted button also changes color, but you can't see it when it's on your head, so I just go with a freshly charged battery and keep track of how long I am using it.

Other, much more expensive running lights that are similar in function (though not quite as bright) include the Lupine Piko.

The Petzl Ultra is 3x the cost of the Xera, less than half as bright, a lot heavier, shorter run time, uglier, etc...

[gte861s]

I don't know what ULTRA running is, but maybe you need an ULTRA headlamp for that?

http://www.rei.com/product/786019/petzl-ultra-headlamp

I kid, I kid.

Haha Bolster! You kid, but when doing a Google search for "ultra running headlamp" that is one of the very first things I found when I began preliminary searches a couple of months ago. There are actually a few articles about it, one of which from a guy who did a 200 miler and while he was wearing a MYO RXP - his pace setter wore the Ultra.

[gte861s]

- under 200grams (I have a ~700 lumen home-made that tips around 250g, and it's bearable but a bit much)
- at least 100 lumens (more is better... for rugged trail, I'm delighted by the aforementioned ~700 lumen monster)
- floody, so you've got a bit in front of you and most importantly, your feet illuminated. (A beam that's too spotty wanders around so much as to be annoying. Plus you can't see your feet, so you end up landing harder than you might otherwise.)
- regulated, so constant brightness
- decently water-resistant
If you want the rolls-royce version, go look at a Lupine Piko.

Borrower,

Thanks! This is the exact stuff I was looking for - the weight was something I wasn't sure of and definitely was wondering what the lumen output "minimum" would be for a trail runner - all the better to get that answer from someone with experience. From researching yesterday, I had surmised that regulated would probably be better, but thank you for solidifying that thought.

For the water resistance, which do you feel is the minimum? IPX-4 or 6?

I will check out the Lupine Piko as well. I have been so far leaning toward the MYO RXP but have been wishing for something a bit better. My quandry is that I feel like if I'm familiar with the trails, then the MYO RXP would be perfect, but if the trails are not familiar; I would want for something more...since I would probably be using a homemade belt light in those situations for the added depth perception - do you feel that the MYO RXP would be sufficient in that situation? Of course, like you say...the more the better!

[Outdoorsman5]

I like the looks of the Xera headlight. I'd like to try it out next time I go skiing.

I have been on the lookout for the perfect running light for a long time, and have come up with some good ones. I run before sun up on an 8 mile trail in the woods in total darkness. I have written about my favorite lights on several running threads, and lots of other folks have listed some great recommendations as well. Do a search for those threads using the search function at the top of this page, or scan through the first few pages on the headlamps section of this forum.

My top recommendation is the Zebralight H600 which has outputs ranging from 0.1 lumens all the way up to 750 lumens. I like the 170 lumens for 7 hours or the 270 lumens for 4 hours the best when running on trails. The zebralights have IMO the best UI around, and I haven't found a light that is more efficient than the H600. It also has a perfect beam for running trails (mostly floody, but has enough throw to see down trail well.) It is very light weight, and doesn't have the large battery packs that other headlamps have. It only weighs 3.04 oz. with the battery & 1.4 oz. without. The H600 uses an 18650 Li-ion rechargeable battery which is not included, so you'd need to get one or more 18650's plus a charger....got mine at 4sevens.com. Stick with the quality brand batteries such as AW or Redilast 18650's. I'm usign an AW 18650 2900mah battery in my H600.

Also, if you go this route spend some time learning about Li-ion batteries. They're very easy to use & handle, but there are some dangers that you should be aware of. You're already using Li-ion batteries though like in your cell phone & laptop, but spend some time learning what to do & what not to do. Go to batteryuniversity.com to quickly learn what you need to know.

You'll also need to get a NiteIze headband for this light. The zebralight headband bounces around too much when running; where as, the NiteIze headband is a stiff nylon material that doesn't bounce around at all. Very comfortable and fits with the comfort of a hat. You can get one of these at batteryjunction.com and it only costs $5.

[jrk]

I'll second xcandrew's recommendation of the Gemini Xera. With the stock optic and programmable levels, it's hard to beat if you're okay with a cool-tinted beam. I already had a Lupine Pro headband, which is a wonderful mount. But Gemini makes their own "pro" version and it appears to borrow generously from the Lupine design but costs about 1/3 as much. I also carry a handheld light with a floody neutral beam as a backup and fog lamp.

[gte861s]

- Both optic and reflecter are great for running. Forget the chest/waist light ideas that are thrown about in US based trail running forums. They are not needed if a light has a good beam and is bright enough. All the Euro orienteers with their 500-2,000+ lumen headlamps racing around in the woods can't be wrong, and they aren't.

-Small, lightweight head: 52 g, 58 g counting the wire. That's a bit over half the weight of my Princeton Tec Eos loaded with batteries. Headbelt is 44 g. With the 2 cell Li-ion battery attached to the headbelt, the total weight is about 239 g. In comparison the Apex is 279 g, Petzl RXP is 175 g. The battery can be strapped to a webbing belt and worn unnoticed on your waist, for an almost weightless 102 g setup on your head. You can also use the 4 cell battery on your body for double the run times. For winter, I'm finding that 239 g is not noticeable on my head because I'm wearing a ski hat anyway (which always improves stability of headlamps), and the headbelt is pretty secure. For use in warmer temperatures with faster/bouncier running, night orienteers like to strap their batteries to their bodies with harnesses or belts.

xcandrew,

wow, thanks! Very informative and you have opened up the option for me to use the battery back on my homemade belt now instead of having two light sources. I can use the money that I was going to spend there on the bigger headlamps and get a smaller emergency/backup light for my waterpack. Definitely some food for thought! Much much appreciated!

I bet you get some amazing running in Alaska! I'm jealous man! The reason I'm researching headlamps is because I'm headed to Arizona in mid-March to do a Grand Canyon Rim to Rim to Rim (RRR) run (~42 miles and 21,420 of elevation change) followed by a daylight 50K race (Mesquite Canyon) two days later then run Mount Humphrey's (peak @12,633ft) on my last day of the trip (much shorter run as the trail is less than 5 miles; of course I will be dealing with snow and altitude to slow me down though!). The RRR will be a very early start AND important to not fall off the canyon and still be able to go quickly so the more lumens the better!

Does the Xera you recommended have a SOS or strobe feature?

[gte861s]

Ourdoorsman5,

Very good recommendations; thank you! I will check out your other threads now that I know who to look for. I have come away with 3-4 very good recommendations so far that I knew nothing about.

[gte861s]

jrk,

you and xcandrew talked about the light color - Is the "neutral" beam you mentioned a white color or yellow? Does a cool tinted beam take on a green or blue tint on a white light?

[gte861s]

My top recommendation is the Zebralight H600 which has outputs ranging from 0.1 lumens all the way up to 750 lumens. I like the 170 lumens for 7 hours or the 270 lumens for 4 hours the best when running on trails. The zebralights have IMO the best UI around, and I haven't found a light that is more efficient than the H600. It also has a perfect beam for running trails (mostly floody, but has enough throw to see down trail well.) It is very light weight, and doesn't have the large battery packs that other headlamps have. It only weighs 3.04 oz. with the battery & 1.4 oz. without. The H600 uses an 18650 Li-ion rechargeable battery which is not included, so you'd need to get one or more 18650's plus a charger....got mine at 4sevens.com. Stick with the quality brand batteries such as AW or Redilast 18650's. I'm usign an AW 18650 2900mah battery in my H600.

I have seen some of your other recommendations in another thread and based on that have a question or two -

I forgot to updat the thread with my thoughts on the lights I got - the ZL H51w and the ZL 501w.

The H51w is perfect for running. I mostly use the medium 1 setting (26 lumens) for dark paved areas, but when I get in the woods on a dark trail I run it on max. The balance between throw & flood is great, and the neutral tint is awesome. The light bounced too much on the provided single headband, so I tried Geobruin's idea of using two bands. This method works well, but I like to take the head band off while not in use. Putting it back on the right way is a little tricky, so I wanted another solution. I am now using a "Nite Ize" head band that is perfect - no bouncing around, and the single head band is comfortable & sturdy. Also, I intentionally let the battery run down on max. The light switch to the low 1 setting (2.2 lumens) and ran for the next 30 minutes no problem. This was still enough light to get me home, so I am not afraid of this light instantly leaving me in the dark....nice. I also carry a Quark 123x2 Turbo X as my other light when running mostly to see things at a distance, so I'm always covered with a back up light. I like the throw & brightness (450 lumens) of this light plus it's quite small (and I use a quark finger loop to keep the Turbo X attached to my hand.)

The reason you're recommending the H600 over the H51w in my thread is due to me needing more lumens and longer battery life, correct? I'm assuming your H51w rec. is because it is a great light for shorter runs and also because of the AA batteries?

edit: guess I should have read that same thread a bit farther as you updated it with your reasoning of the H600 > H51. Does your H600 have any issues with bouncing (bouncing was part of that topic for some of the ZLs and how to fix the bounce)?

[Outdoorsman5]

I have seen some of your other recommendations in another thread and based on that have a question or two -



The reason you're recommending the H600 over the H51w in my thread is due to me needing more lumens and longer battery life, correct? I'm assuming your H51w rec. is because it is a great light for shorter runs and also because of the AA batteries?

That's correct. I love the H51 and H51w, but the H600 has lots more output, and runtimes are a whole lot longer. For the type of running you've described the H51 would not be a good fit, but the H600 would be ideal especailly when you consider how small & lightweight it is compared to your other choices.

Also, read the last entry in that thread which later discusses the H51 and the H600 in depth. I updated it today since someone resurrected that thread.

[gte861s]

Also, read the last entry in that thread which later discusses the H51 and the H600 in depth. I updated it today since someone resurrected that thread.

Ha! You probably just missed my edit!

edit: guess I should have read that same thread a bit farther as you updated it with your reasoning of the H600 > H51. Does your H600 have any issues with bouncing (bouncing was part of that topic for some of the ZLs and how to fix the bounce)?

You have some great recommendations and the H600 as well as the XERA are now my top two candidates....maybe I will start acting like all you flashaholics and get both!

[Outdoorsman5]

Yeah.........get both.

Does your H600 have any issues with bouncing (bouncing was part of that topic for some of the ZLs and how to fix the bounce)?

It doesn't bounce at all when in the NiteIze headband.

[jrk]

jrk,

you and xcandrew talked about the light color - Is the "neutral" beam you mentioned a white color or yellow? Does a cool tinted beam take on a green or blue tint on a white light?

My handheld light's neutral emitter (XPE in an optic) has a color temperature of about 5000K, while the Xera's appears to be a standard "cool" 6300K. In comparison, the neutral beam looks yellow but is probably the nicest outdoor tint that I've owned - much cozier than the Xera's. To Gemini's credit, their cool white does not suffer from any off-color tinges either in the center spot or the spill.

[Bicycleflyer]

I'm not an ultra runner, but a cyclist. So I may not be in tune with your specific needs, but black diamond is making a headlamp specifically for running. What about that model?

[Outdoorsman5]

I'm not an ultra runner, but a cyclist. So I may not be in tune with your specific needs, but black diamond is making a headlamp specifically for running. What about that model?

I've looked at the black diamond sprinter before, and it looks pretty decent. It's limited to max 68 lumens though. That's plenty for running on streets, but I prefer more lumens for trail running. Also, I don't like lights with a bulky battery pack when running either....too bulky, not comfortable, & usually moves around too much.

[gte861s]

I'm not an ultra runner, but a cyclist. So I may not be in tune with your specific needs, but black diamond is making a headlamp specifically for running. What about that model?

Also a great review was done by one of CPFs flashaholics (Szemhazai) on his website:

http://www.light-test.info/index.php...mid=54&lang=en

I found the lumens to be lacking for what I need.

[gte861s]

It doesn't bounce at all when in the NiteIze headband.

Is this really the headband being recommended? I have seen your rec. on a few threads as well as that of others and wanted to be sure since it doesn't *appear* to be very good from the pics..just double checking:

http://www.batteryjunction.com/niteize-npo-03.html

[Outdoorsman5]

Is this really the headband being recommended? I have seen your rec. on a few threads as well as that of others and wanted to be sure since it doesn't *appear* to be very good from the pics..just double checking:

http://www.batteryjunction.com/niteize-npo-03.html

Yep that's it. Looks goofy in the picture, and bein only $5 makes it seem like it might be cheap. It's well made though. I guess it's inexpensive because it's only made out of nylon & velcro which there's nothin fancy about that. I bought a few of the black ones thinking my original one would wear out (I was worried it may be cheap.) I haven't needed to use any of my backup headbands because the original one is as good as new. I hand wash it regularly with soap & water. I pull the lights in & out of it regularly, and I wad the thing up in my pocket pretty regular too. No real sign of wear. It's a tough, simple, & sturdy headband. I now expect it'll last a long time. I'd still buy a backup just in case.

[JackJ]

I've looked at the black diamond sprinter before, and it looks pretty decent. It's limited to max 68 lumens though. That's plenty for running on streets, but I prefer more lumens for trail running. Also, I don't like lights with a bulky battery pack when running either....too bulky, not comfortable, & usually moves around too much.

I really like my Black Diamond Sprinter, but as noted above and by others, the output is not sufficient alone for trail running.

However, I find it perfect for roads and groomed park trails. The rear flashing red LED is great when there's traffic about. And, best of all, this is the best balanced headlamp I've ever worn. Not at all bulky--the lighthead (front) and battery (rear) are both very compact and lightweight. The strap system is very well designed, and there is never any movement. I can completely forget that I'm wearing it at all. In this case, I'm pretty confident that the distributed load makes it a better design than any front-only design, even one as light as my ZL H501.

But again, it's not for rugged trails. Though I do sometimes still wear it for that, and carry a powerful handheld (ShiningBeam S-Mini) for the needed extra lumens.

[gte861s]

Outdoorsman5,

A bit off topic, but I found you listed Quark AA as your 3rd (IIRC) flashlight in another thread...first question..what does "enc" mean? I have seen it a few times but yet to figure it out...is it code for your "go to" all around utility light? 2nd question..which Quark do you specifically recommend? I found so so many different versions on 4Sevens.com and on another of your posts you mentioned the Quark X AA^2 but then mentioned using it with a 14500 I think...which is only 1 battery and it looked to me like the X AA^2 is a two battery flashlight...might be getting my wires crossed up somewhat reading so many threads in the past day....reason I ask, is looking for a backup flashlight now that I ordered the ZL H600 (backordered till 1/16/12) and the NiteIze headband (on the way)...trying to get a full order ready on 4Seven.com and want to make sure I have the correct parts on the Quark before I pull the trigger on the AW 18650 2900mah (and charger if my charger at home won't work - have to check tonight) for the ZL.


Edit: To me, it looks like this is your current Quark recommendation: http://www.4sevens.com/product_info....oducts_id=2756
edit2: The more I look, the more I'm thinking you have some sort of modded Quark because of the "lego" ability of the Quark's...an XM-L head (0.9v-4.2v), AA body (using single 14500), and perhaps a tactical tail, with a clip? Don't think I have found that as an "all in one package".
edit3: finally found the other two threads again and pieced it all together now!
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=1#post3830673
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=1#post3815438

[robostudent5000]

Is this really the headband being recommended? I have seen your rec. on a few threads as well as that of others and wanted to be sure since it doesn't *appear* to be very good from the pics..just double checking:

the Niteize band is a high quality headband and it holds a Zebra very securely. i've tried it running with a H60, which is only a few grams lighter than a H600, and it didn't bounce at all. but i had two problems with the Niteize.

first, the band isn't really big enough to fit my size 7 1/2 head. i had to adjust it all the way out to the edge of the velcro to get it to fit. my Niteize is an old one, so maybe the newer ones are different. if they're the same, then they're not good for large heads.

the second problem for me is that the setup hurts my forehead. there isn't much padding where the headband and headlamp make contact with my forehead, and the way the band and elastic conform to the shape of the lamp make it very uncomfortable for me. some others don't seem to have this problem, but it was a big problem for me.

in the end i made my own version with a narrower and looser elastic holder that was stitched so that it could hold a Zebra while allowing the headband to lie flat and conform to my head. it's not quite as stable as the Niteize, but it's comfortable and otherwise works really well.

[borrower]

...
For the water resistance, which do you feel is the minimum? IPX-4 or 6?
...
I will check out the Lupine Piko as well. I have been so far leaning toward the MYO RXP but have been wishing for something a bit better. My quandry is that I feel like if I'm familiar with the trails, then the MYO RXP would be perfect, but if the trails are not familiar; I would want for something more...since I would probably be using a homemade belt light in those situations for the added depth perception - do you feel that the MYO RXP would be sufficient in that situation? Of course, like you say...the more the better!

Water-resistance wise, I've never had anything fail on me in the rain. (And I'm living in a wet region.) My various petzls are ipx4; my home-made is probably less.

I think you'll do okay without excessive light. Part of that is that you aren't (gosh, I'm making assumptions now!) running 7 minute miles while you're ultra-ing. I've been up the Bright Angel Trail, and can say that you aren't going to get lost on it.

It sounds like the Xera has fallen off your list, but if anyone knows what kind of 18650s are used in it, I'd be interested. (I hate to sound suspicious, but at the price, it almost sounds too good to be true...)

[xcandrew]

if anyone knows what kind of 18650s are used in it, I'd be interested. (I hate to sound suspicious, but at the price, it almost sounds too good to be true...)

Samsung.

You can also use battery packs from Geomangear (a web retailer who developed their own battery packs with Panasonic cells after recalling Magicshine battery packs that they sold for a period of time), Magicshine, and probably some others with compatible connectors.

[xcandrew]

Does the Xera you recommended have a SOS or strobe feature?

The Xera has a blinking mode, though I haven't used it. You can adjust the intensity from 10% to 100% in 10% increments like you can in the other modes.

A

[xcandrew]

My handheld light's neutral emitter (XPE in an optic) has a color temperature of about 5000K, while the Xera's appears to be a standard "cool" 6300K. In comparison, the neutral beam looks yellow but is probably the nicest outdoor tint that I've owned - much cozier than the Xera's. To Gemini's credit, their cool white does not suffer from any off-color tinges either in the center spot or the spill.

My two Xeras are different in tint, but both are fine. They are cooler than the 5000K compact fluorescent bulbs that I just installed in my house. Unlike jrk though, I don't like yellow. It looks like urine on snow.