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Thread: Foursevens Preon P0

  1. #541
    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    I have performed a Low-mode run-time test, on an Energizer L92 Ultimate Lithium battery.

    This battery tested 1.801 volts (no load), and fresh-dated. Room temperature.


    Keep in mind -- these results are only for MY sample. Your mileage may vary.


    After 5-and-a-half days (132 hours), output had dropped to 50 % brightness.


    After 138 hours, output had dropped to 15 %.


    At 140 hours, it suddenly went OUT !


    Not as long-lasting as your expectations stated above.



    But, of course, still a VERY respectable performance !


    I'd be interested to hear what numbers other folks get.





    BTW -- at the 50 % brightness level, i judged it Quite Similar to my
    ZebraLight H51fw, on its lowest setting (Low-Low).

    However, the P0 has a wider beam, and is TOTALLY flood.


    Hope this information is helpful.


    Edited to add --

    I used my Minolta Auto Flashmeter III for this test.

    It's now 30 years old ( ! ) and still serves me well !

    _
    Last edited by Burgess; 02-14-2012 at 10:57 PM. Reason: described my Light Meter

  2. #542
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Burgess View Post
    I have performed a Low-mode run-time test, on an Energizer L92 Ultimate Lithium battery.
    This battery tested 1.801 volts (no load), and fresh-dated. Room temperature.
    Keep in mind -- these results are only for MY sample. Your mileage may vary.
    After 5-and-a-half days (132 hours), output had dropped to 50 % brightness.
    After 138 hours, output had dropped to 15 %.
    At 140 hours, it suddenly went OUT !
    Not as long-lasting as your expectations stated above.
    But, of course, still a VERY respectable performance !
    I'd be interested to hear what numbers other folks get.


    BTW -- at the 50 % brightness level, i judged it Quite Similar to my
    ZebraLight H51fw, on its lowest setting (Low-Low).
    However, the P0 has a wider beam, and is TOTALLY flood.
    Hope this information is helpful.
    Thanks Burgess for your testing
    Was your test measured using a light meter or do you have a HMIS?
    Based on your results. I will do a test starting in the AM tommorow using an Energizer L92-FR03(7X) on one of my version 1 samples.
    GL

  3. #543
    Flashaholic Streamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    [QUOTE=

    Not as long-lasting as your expectations stated above.

    _[/QUOTE]


    Ahh,,but alas. Only in a perfect world where the laws of physics do not apply

    and

    direct proportions abound....

  4. #544
    Flashaholic someguy4747's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Great to see the impressive runtimes! But...Anybody else have a tough time coughing up $2 a lithium battery? I use rechargables in all my lights. Guiltless lumens! I'm still using the included Duracell in my P0 as of now but since it seems eneloops will damage the light I'm considering L92's. I just don't know if I can pay $2 a piece!? This is the cheapest I can find them on amazon. I usually always leave home with topped off batteries but I would want to fully deplete a $2 cell before I replaced it. This would cause me to leave home with half empty cells(notice my glass half empty view on the subject). I realize this is not a serious issue as I can afford the batteries and I always have another light, it just kind of messes up my philosophy of use(nutnfancy term!). Are any of you guys thinking the same?
    I sometimes use lights to make my photographs.

  5. #545
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Yes, I am thinking the same. That is the whole reason I want to use Eneloop batteries. With Burgess's results, and probably the same I will get, that leaves just the rechargeables that have a positive button shaped like a duracell. . The Energizers I have cost $2.35 each retail. If the run times do not exceed my expectatins, they are not justified compared to the regular Duracell alakaline. I love the form factor and design of this little P0 light. I'm keeping the two that I have. I am hoping for a revision that will be compatible with eneloops, but will use the standard Duracell or equivelent for many years to come.
    GL

  6. #546

    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by someguy4747 View Post
    Are any of you guys thinking the same?
    i am still sitting behind the fence watching.
    since this thread and with the energy of several dedicated CPF seniors uncovered clearly which exact design issues should not let be unsolved and since the 4sevens old logo says "we've been listening to you for years", now i really expect a "hardware revision" (IT term!) anytime soon:

    Preon P0 beta2

    Dear 4sevens, plz do not disappoint us by not improving the current design thx
    Last edited by shelm; 02-14-2012 at 03:36 AM.

  7. #547

    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Got Lumens? View Post
    The Energizers I have cost $2.35 each retail. If the run times do not exceed my expectatins, they are not justified compared to the regular Duracell alakaline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helmut.G View Post
    Alkaline sucks at medium currents and is nearly unusable at high currents. That's where the big difference comes from. In moonlight mode, however, the difference will be marginally or alkaline might even be slightly better (at room temperature that is. low temperatures give litium another advantage, alkalines are useless in the cold).
    Helmut is quite correct. With a good circuit, you should expect to see a large difference between L92 lithium and alkaline at the reported 25 lumen Hi level, and a small (or negligble) difference at the reported 0.25 lumen Lo level. Good capacity NiMH should be intermediate to the L92 and alkaline at the Hi level, and likely slightly underperform at the Lo.

    But the proof is in the pudding, as they say. I am currently doing actual runtime tests on a P0 sample 4Sevens sent me. I should have my preliminary review up by the end of the week, with at least all the Hi mode runs. Lo mode will take a little longer, and likely only be approximate (i.e., I don't intend to tie up my lightbox for weeks at a time ... ).
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: Fenix LD60.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  8. #548
    Flashaholic* mrlysle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Thanks Burgess, for the low mode test. And thanks Eric for your contributions too! Looking forward to your review. With the ever present danger of an alky leak, I really wanted to pop a Eneloop in my PO and be done with it, but I have the same issue as many here do, with IC clearance at the positive cap. So for now, I'll be using L92's. If 4/7's doesn't physically change the driver in these, I might just do the solder mod as well. It is a neat little light, but not enough forethought went into the design.
    Jeff

  9. #549
    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Got Lumens? View Post

    Thanks Burgess for your testing
    Was your test measured using a light meter or do you have a HMIS?

    I used my Minolta Auto Flashmeter III for this test.

    It's now 30 years old ( ! ) and still serves me well !


    _

  10. #550

    Default Works as advertised...

    FWIW, I just received my Preon Zero last night, and thus far it's perfect: threads are smooth, finish is excellent, one-handed operation is a go, the tint is fine and the GITD treatment works as advertised (you can still find your light hours after the fact, so long as you're in a dark room with adapted eyesight).

    I'm not sure that this light will replace either of my SS ReVO's on my keychain, but there's no denying that this is one compact gem of a light. For 90% of what I would use a light like this for, the Preon Zero is pretty much perfect with its wide-angle, zero-artifact beam pattern. Of course, if you're outside and require a bit of throw, well, then this one ain't gonna cut it, but for putzing around the house, in the garage or simply trying to see the path at your feet, this one is hard to beat.

    Good job, Foursevens!

    Regards,
    Adam
    Last edited by craniotes; 02-15-2012 at 08:20 AM.

  11. #551
    Flashaholic Streamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    [QUOTE mrlysle
    If 4/7's doesn't physically change the driver in these, I might just do the solder mod as well. QUOTE]

    If you do, use something harder than 40/60 solder. I'm starting to have issues with Eneloops again because the joint is too soft and collapsing after repeated usage. I just may stick with Lithium primarys for now.

    Four 7's, if you get this thing to work with Eneloops, it'll be perfect.

  12. #552
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Streamer View Post
    If you do, use something harder than 40/60 solder. I'm starting to have issues with Eneloops again because the joint is too soft and collapsing after repeated usage. I just may stick with Lithium primarys for now.
    Four 7's, if you get this thing to work with Eneloops, it'll be perfect.
    Streamer brings a good point. If You decide to modd your Preon0 with the soldier, The contact surface needs to only be ~0.5mm high. It is not a permanent solution, just a work around. Caution should be taken to prevent it from being any higher than ~1mm as this can lead to failure with the oring sealing properly while the light is in the off mode. There is only ~1.75mm of head travel from the on position to where the oring becomes ineffective. The easiest option to make the modd last is to include a 26ga(0.4mm)or 24ga(0.5mm) solid wire clipping in the middle of the soldier blob, then it will stop wearing as quickly being copper instead of tin/lead.
    GL

  13. #553
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Streamer View Post
    [QUOTE mrlysle


    Four 7's, if you get this thing to work with Eneloops, it'll be perfect.
    I agree! I gave my last one away to a friend and now I'm hoping for an updated version to make a second purchase or TWO.
    Need...... more...... lights!

  14. #554

    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by shelm View Post
    Preon P0 beta2
    Does 4sevens ship free samples of the beta2 version for beta testing purposes?

    i would like to sign up, want to have a free copy thanks!
    Last edited by shelm; 02-15-2012 at 12:40 PM.

  15. #555
    Flashaholic Streamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Just throwing this out there. Is there any mod that can be done to the anode of the Eneloop? A good filing comes to mind. Or is the anode hollow? Hmmmm..

    Answering my own question ...but of course the Eneloop has vent holes....can not change....this is very frustrating.... 4 SEVENS !!!
    Last edited by Streamer; 02-15-2012 at 02:08 PM.

  16. #556
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Got Lumens? View Post
    Shelm, something like this?


    . . . . . Click to Enlarge
    GL
    Quote Originally Posted by Streamer View Post
    Just throwing this out there. Is there any mod that can be done to the anode of the Eneloop? A good filing comes to mind. Or is the anode hollow? Hmmmm..

    Answering my own question ...but of course the Eneloop has vent holes....can not change....this is very frustrating.... 4 SEVENS !!!
    Looks like it is stamped and hollow to me, of course I don't have any dead Eneloops to confirm this . . .
    GL

  17. #557
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Anyone know of a magnet that is 2mm round and 1/2mm in height?
    That might work, or it might cause more problems than it is worth

    Edit: Or maybe we can get Four Sevens to have Eneloop make them a special Preon 0 Battery.
    Last edited by Got Lumens?; 02-15-2012 at 02:32 PM.

  18. #558
    Flashaholic Streamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Got Lumens? View Post
    Edit: Or maybe we can get Four Sevens to have Eneloop make them a special Preon 0 Battery.

  19. #559
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Streamer View Post
    Just throwing this out there. Is there any mod that can be done to the anode of the Eneloop? A good filing comes to mind. Or is the anode hollow? Hmmmm..

    Answering my own question ...but of course the Eneloop has vent holes....can not change....this is very frustrating.... 4 SEVENS !!!
    You could try to insulate it with something really thin, like cut of 0.5 mm of a thin straw or something and se if it fits snug over the sides of the nipple. Mc-gyver stuff.

  20. #560
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by jorn View Post
    You could try to insulate it with something really thin, like cut of 0.5 mm of a thin straw or something and se if it fits snug over the sides of the nipple. Mc-gyver stuff.
    Jorn,
    I don't think that would work. There is physically not enough space for the Eneloop positive contact to fit between the two components on the driver board on several samples of P0's. Do you mean crimping the Eneloops positive contact to smaller diameter than ~3.5mm? If so the insulation wouldn't be needed. You could soldier a 2mm long 24ga wire clipping to the Eneloops top

  21. #561
    Flashaholic Streamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    WELL, it's the long way around the barn any way you look at it. 4 Sevens needs to re-design the V2 edition OR designate NOT COMPATIBLE WITH RECHARGEABLES (ENELOOPS) ETC.

  22. #562
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Streamer View Post
    WELL, it's the long way around the barn any way you look at it. 4 Sevens needs to re-design the V2 edition OR designate NOT COMPATIBLE WITH RECHARGEABLES (ENELOOPS) ETC.
    Without Official comment,
    It is hard to say whether it was the architect who designed the barn to be too small,
    or whether the builder substituted/deviated from the blueprints plans that has caused
    the larger tractor to stick out past the doors by 2".
    Either way the farmers larger tractor he wanted to keep in it does not fit.
    And the Farmer can only keep his smaller tractor in there without modifiying something

  23. #563
    Flashaholic Streamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    lol....THAT's why they put "height" signs on overpasses....so the 18 wheeler doesn't peel his cab top off like a sardine can. 4 7's out of respect should "sign" the same. Advertise it. Up front. "rant off"

  24. #564
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Streamer View Post
    lol....THAT's why they put "height" signs on overpasses....so the 18 wheeler doesn't peel his cab top off like a sardine can. 4 7's out of respect should "sign" the same. Advertise it. Up front. "rant off"
    Agreed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Got Lumens? View Post
    I am sure that Four Sevens is aware that some folks like and want to use Eneloop and square shouldered button batteries in these lights. We await to see a response. Either a driver PCB change, or a non-recommend for square shouldered button cells is needed to put this to rest.

    GL

  25. #565
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    To those who can relate on certain issues with the light.

    First and main issue resolved:


    I have put solder on the positive contact ( Approx 1mm ) on the PCB and it works great. I use only lead free stuff. This had fixed it permanently. I had also taken out the pill just to clean and re-torqued with blunt tip tweezers. This is to ensure a proper conductive path.

    Second Issue, works but is going to fail again soon:

    The o-ring has lasted me a few weeks and worked great. Then the other day I went to use it to do normal stuff at night and the head was tighter than normal. I also put good o-ring grease and make sure there are no sharp edges. The light came milled nice and its not the cause of the problem. Then when I went to take off the head the o-ring had seized to the head of the light and held in place when I unscrewed the head off. You can imagine what happened next. It chewed through the o-ring and now its gone.

    I have looked at the DGQ II light as most on here say they are very similar in build and specs. So I went on CNYqualitygoods and got a set of the o-rings as I know they need to be at least a 12mm ID and 1mm thick in order to work properly. So I hope that these work and if they do I will send a few to those who are close as they are going to take three weeks with shipping from china.

    Then today I was calling around to find a local place, perhaps to find a hobby shop or hardware store that would have a decent selection of o-rings. Napa was the best deal as the rest of the places you would think of (I mean ALL of them ) didn't have anything that was quality. I ended up getting a half dozen of 1/16" thick o-ring that had an ID of 5/16" and it was hell to get it to stretch. The rest of the companies have ones that are non elastic and pliable. It had fit and was still too thick, so I took my Leatherman Style CS, since I am inpatient and proceeded to ruin the first o-ring by cutting too thin and snap!. Then the second time I had got it just this enough and smooth, then I had rolled the o-ring over to have the rolled edge facing outward and it had fit. I need a softer material, like the one it came with but just and internet search is not coming up with much as most I know in here are still looking. I was not going to put thread tape on it and it needs to be water proof for an EDC light.

    If there are any that could list some solutions as well as suppliers that would sell o-rings that are the same size or specs needed. It would be very much appreciated as my o-ring is going to do what the original did and need ready to go back-ups. Mine works but is tighter than heck.

    Then there is a third problem but can deal with it:

    I just noticed this the other day when I was looking at the gitd feature. The optic/lens has spider cracks in it and is all over the lens. It does not hurt performance or hurt the beautiful beam but is noticeable in close observation at an angle on low or from the glow of the gitd film. I would like to find a replacement or other options. Please help me, if not I can deal with it as Its going to get replaced once another failure comes up. They are going to take the light as I have not modified it at all and damage was due to no disclaimer.

    Thanks for reading my post and hope to hear on some of the remedies.
    Eric
    Last edited by ama230; 02-15-2012 at 08:41 PM. Reason: grammar
    "When you do something right, no one remembers. When you do something wrong, no one forgets."
    Edison was right with dc all along...

  26. #566
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by ama230 View Post
    To those who can relate on certain issues with the light.
    Second Issue, works but is going to fail again soon:
    The o-ring has lasted me a few weeks and worked great. Eric
    Have you tried an orthodontist? When I had braces many many many moons ago, there were at least 12 different sizes of rubber orings you mention.

    Four Sevens has switched the original design of the oring for a better one. Have You tried calling them for the new updated oring?
    GL

  27. #567
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Got Lumens? View Post
    Jorn,
    I don't think that would work. There is physically not enough space for the Eneloop positive contact to fit between the two components on the driver board on several samples of P0's. Do you mean crimping the Eneloops positive contact to smaller diameter than ~3.5mm? If so the insulation wouldn't be needed. You could soldier a 2mm long 24ga wire clipping to the Eneloops top
    It works. Mine crapped out yesterday. Fixed with a straw condom I just dont know how long it will work. The suggestion was for a fix if yours already is shorted.. Many p0's have the problem that the eneloop nipple fits. But when you start to use it alot, the nipple can eat its way trough the side of the ic and short out. (I think those vent holes might act like a metal cutter the when the battery rotates.) The battery wobbles slightly sideways and slowly eat's the sides of the ic's until it shorts out. The solder blob is a more permanent fix.

  28. #568

    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    My review is now up:

    Foursevens Preon P0 (XP-E, 1xAAA, SS, "Flood") Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!

    Hi mode runtimes are all done, on all battery types. Still working on the Lo mode runtimes, but you'll be able to see a short-term comparison of the output levels and regulation at this level.

    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: Fenix LD60.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  29. #569
    Flashaholic* mrlysle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Great job as usual on the review sir! The L92 runtimes are pretty good methinks! I'm anxious to see what the low mode times are on L92's. Thanks for another great review!
    Jeff

  30. #570
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Testing . . . 57 hrs and counting Energizer L92

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