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Thread: Foursevens Preon P0

  1. #631
    Flashaholic Streamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilovolt View Post
    The bottom of my 8 cells appears to be in its original state and the misbehavior happens with different ones. I agree that the problem seems due to a bad contact, .
    If thes 8 NIMH cells are all you have tried, I would try a regular Alkaline battery such as Duracell, Energizer, etc.

    All NIMH cells have the larger anode contacts. I have same trouble as you with NIMH cells, but alkalines function perfectly due to smallest anode contacts.
    Last edited by Streamer; 02-25-2012 at 08:34 AM.

  2. #632
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilovolt View Post
    I am using Energizer 1000 mAh NiMH cells with a narrow and well protruding positive button.
    It may be one of the narrower NIMH's out there but in SelfBuilts review (see list below) he lists widths of anodes in NIMH and ALkalines. Alkalines have the narrowest. Try one, it may cure your problem.

    Alkaline:
    Duracell AAA: 3.17mm
    Eveready AAA: 3.34mm
    GP AA: 3.27mm

    Lithium:
    Energizer L92 AAA: 3.48mm

    NiMH:
    Eneloop AAA (early generations): 3.73mm
    Eneloop AAA (recent purchases): 3.79mm
    Energizer high-capacity AAA: 3.52mm
    Duracell high-capacity AAA (non-Eneloop): 3.67mm
    Generic high-capacity AAA: 3.67mm

    NiMH cells typically have wider anodes than primary alkaline and lithium cells – and Sanyo Eneloop cells particularly so.
    Last edited by Streamer; 02-25-2012 at 08:38 AM.

  3. #633
    Flashaholic* Kilovolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Streamer View Post
    It may be one of the narrower NIMH's out there but in SelfBuilts review (see list below) he lists widths of anodes in NIMH and ALkalines. Alkalines have the narrowest. Try one, it may cure your problem.

    ........

    Will do, thanks.

  4. #634

    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    I was very interested in this as a floodier mini companion to my E05 but not working with Eneloops is a deal breaker for me. Maybe version 1.1...

  5. #635
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by tickled View Post
    I was very interested in this as a floodier mini companion to my E05 but not working with Eneloops is a deal breaker for me. Maybe version 1.1...
    It seems that not all are affected. No real info out yet. And don't know if 4 7's will comment or not.. Business as usual.

    SelfBuilt commented on it. I even suggested to another reviewer to check it out..fell on deaf ears...guess he wanted no part of it.
    Last edited by Streamer; 02-25-2012 at 03:27 PM.

  6. #636
    Flashaholic henry1960's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Deal Breaker For Me TOO...

  7. #637
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by tickled View Post
    I was very interested in this as a floodier mini companion to my E05 but not working with Eneloops is a deal breaker for me. Maybe version 1.1...
    I find it amazing that a company would release a light that will not receive the pos end of NIMH! It"s baffling that 4-7"s has not spoken (that I know of) on this issue. I was interested in one of these lights. That is the good thing about a thread like this as 4-7"s will surely see it and hopefully correct this problem and THEN fancy up their web design/packaging. Tickled, if you are looking for flood, I highly recommend the Klarus MIX6.

    Keith

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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Streamer View Post
    It may be one of the narrower NIMH's out there but in SelfBuilts review he lists widths of anodes in NIMH and ALkalines. Alkalines have the narrowest. Try one, it may cure your problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilovolt View Post
    Will do, thanks.
    Kilovolt,
    Here's the photos that confirm the P0's annode troubles. Selfbuilt measured 3.52mm for the Energizer NiMh's annodes. In my two samples of P0's, the distance between the two IC chips was only ~3.42mm. The Eneloops worked on the sample below, wore away part of the IC chip due to the fact that the battery was actually getting pushed off center to make the contact with the driver. This is from about 1 hours worth of use, and I have since reverted to smaller annoded batteries.
    There have also been many more reports of the IC's getting shorted out using the larger annoded batteries since I documented these photo's. Was it by design, or was it by manufacture defect, that larger annoded batteries do not work in all P0's? A little insight and battery reccomendations would go along way here Four Sevens.

    Just a friendly reminder, not all customers buy and use Duracell batteries. The P0 is marketed as a "AAA" single cell light. Why is it that not all "AAA" batteries can be used? There are international standards for a battery's size to qualify and be sold as a "AAA" battery. Any "AAA" sized battery should work in this "AAA" marketed light.

    IMO, I think it would be a better business decision to change the marketing of this light to exclude "rechargeable" AAA battieries. I beleive it would be more cost effective, less disatisfaction, less RMAs, and Most Importantly, a better Image and start with one of the First Newly Branded models that 4 Sevens spent a ton of money, time, and research developing Four Sevens new branding.
    If a fix is designed and manufactured, this could be marketed as the "New" P0, now compatible with rechargeables.

    GL

    .

  9. #639

    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Ordered one this morning.
    I'm using L92s almost exclusively, though.

  10. #640
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Got Lumens? View Post
    P0 Runtime on low 182hrs!
    Energizer L92 Lithium AAA 7X cell
    GL
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolip View Post
    Ordered one this morning.
    I'm using L92s almost exclusively, though.
    The L92 performance in my two has been excellent.
    GL

  11. #641
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    PICTURE OF THE YEAR !

    "Houston...We Have A Problem...."
    Last edited by Streamer; 02-25-2012 at 06:31 PM.

  12. #642
    Flashaholic* Kilovolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    OK I changed over to an L92, we'll see how the light behaves.

  13. #643
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    I have just done an autopsy to my Preon P0 pill and found the problem. The battery button causes wear and tear to one of the ICs until it makes contact with one of the internal parts, causing a short circuit. I used a Sony Cycle Energy rechargeable, which is indistinguishable from a duracell alkaline. The size and buttons are similar.

    So, I'm sorry to report, it will be only a matter of time before most people's Preon P0 goes. It just needs to be turned on and off a few times per day to wear the plastic off the IC.

    Here is the image of the pill. I covered the exposed metal with superglue and I hope it will fix the problem for a few weeks.



    I think the lesson for a manufacturer is to test the prototype for a few weeks before selling it.
    Malo odiat lux (Latin proverb - Evil hates light)

  14. #644
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by JulianP View Post
    I have just done an autopsy to my Preon P0 pill and found the problem. The battery button causes wear and tear to one of the ICs until it makes contact with one of the internal parts, causing a short circuit. I used a Sony Cycle Energy rechargeable, which is indistinguishable from a duracell alkaline. The size and buttons are similar.

    So, I'm sorry to report, it will be only a matter of time before most people's Preon P0 goes. It just needs to be turned on and off a few times per day to wear the plastic off the IC.

    Here is the image of the pill. I covered the exposed metal with superglue and I hope it will fix the problem for a few weeks.
    Julian,
    This post#552 describes a fix that may work longer than super glue or adding a plastic battery annode insulator(straw, heat shrink, battery condom).

    Could you post a closeup head to head picture of a Duracell and your Sony Cycle Energy rechargeable annodes? All I have are Eneloops at the moment. My second sample which has only used a Duracell has rub marks. It is sounding like it is a matter of a few hundreths of a mm that is causing these troubles.

    GL

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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by JulianP View Post
    So, I'm sorry to report, it will be only a matter of time before most people's Preon P0 goes. It just needs to be turned on and off a few times per day to wear the plastic off the IC.
    How do you know that most pepole will ruin theirs? Mine ate one of the ic's. Moved one ic ~0,1 mm with a solder iron, and it's back to normal. The nipple on my ni-mh's cant reach the ic's now, batterytube prevents it for toutching the ic. It's all about microscopic tolerances. If your battery got a wide nipple with venting holes, it can eat faster, kind of like a metal drill when the battery is turning with the tube.

  16. #646
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Got Lumens? View Post
    Julian,
    This post#552 describes a fix that may work longer than super glue or adding a plastic battery annode insulator(straw, heat shrink, battery condom).

    Could you post a closeup head to head picture of a Duracell and your Sony Cycle Energy rechargeable annodes? All I have are Eneloops at the moment. My second sample which has only used a Duracell has rub marks. It is sounding like it is a matter of a few hundreths of a mm that is causing these troubles.

    GL
    Hi GL,
    I just tried the solder blob fix, and the P0 doesn't work anymore. Maybe I overheated it, or perhaps I had already blown the IC. It reminded me of my troubles years ago when I spent hours trying to fix a $13 DX AAA flashlight. If I were to charge myself at my professional rates, that flashlight would have cost me $450. So I promised myself I would never do it again, and just stick with high quality manufacturers.

    I have now gone down the same path with the Preon P0, and I am still kicking myself like a compulsive gambler who has just lost his paypacket yet again. Perhaps the Sony Recycle Energy is a few hundreds of a mm bigger, I can't see it. I could use a micrometer or some other instrument, but now I'm in a bad mood and I'm going to put the whole thing in the bin (knowing my sickness, I'll probably retrieve it tomorrow and have another try).
    Malo odiat lux (Latin proverb - Evil hates light)

  17. #647
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by JulianP View Post
    Hi GL,
    I just tried the solder blob fix, and the P0 doesn't work anymore. Maybe I overheated it, or perhaps I had already blown the IC. It reminded me of my troubles years ago when I spent hours trying to fix a $13 DX AAA flashlight. If I were to charge myself at my professional rates, that flashlight would have cost me $450. So I promised myself I would never do it again, and just stick with high quality manufacturers.

    I have now gone down the same path with the Preon P0, and I am still kicking myself like a compulsive gambler who has just lost his paypacket yet again. Perhaps the Sony Recycle Energy is a few hundreds of a mm bigger, I can't see it. I could use a micrometer or some other instrument, but now I'm in a bad mood and I'm going to put the whole thing in the bin (knowing my sickness, I'll probably retrieve it tomorrow and have another try).
    Julian,
    Sorry to hear it was a no go. I would agree with you, come back to it later. Let us know.
    Quote Originally Posted by jorn View Post
    Mine ate one of the ic's. Moved one ic ~0,1 mm with a solder iron, and it's back to normal. The nipple on my ni-mh's cant reach the ic's now, batterytube prevents it for toutching the ic. It's all about microscopic tolerances.
    Jorn,
    Thank you for sharing your inginuity. That totals up to three different fixes now
    GL
    Last edited by Got Lumens?; 02-26-2012 at 02:30 AM.

  18. #648

    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by JulianP View Post
    I used a Sony Cycle Energy rechargeable, which is indistinguishable from a duracell alkaline. The size and buttons are similar.
    Are you sure about that? I have tested AA-sized Sony Cycle Energy LSD rechargeables, and found them to be identical to Sanyo Eneloop AAs in every regard. Don't know about the non-LSD Sony's, but all the brands of AAA-size NiMH I have tested have much wider (and more evenly cylindrical) anodes than alkalines.

    Numbers are quote above and in my P0 review, but all my eneloop-style AAAs are a good ~0.6mm wider than my duracell alkaline, and all other NiMH AAA were 0.35-0.5mm wider.

    Note those measurements are taken at the base of the anode - the duracells are a lot more conical shaped, so are even less likely to contact the the circuit elements.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: ZeroHour XD.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    the fix would be right here.

    just spec small chips. IC's with legs is sooooo Y2K

    posted by jh333233
    Dont cheat me, im expert in using crap light

  20. #650
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    0,5cm x 2 = 1 cm. aaa = 1cm. No room for nipple at all if 2 of those magic ic's were put on the backside of the board.

  21. #651
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by jorn View Post
    0,5cm x 2 = 1 cm. aaa = 1cm. No room for nipple at all if 2 of those magic ic's were put on the backside of the board.
    that is just an example of a flat package. the actual part only has 6 leads and would be even smaller
    and it is not the sizexsize that matters, it is the thickness or height.
    posted by jh333233
    Dont cheat me, im expert in using crap light

  22. #652
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Thickness/height is no issue,. It's the spacing between the ic's that makes problem. If the nipple is to wide, it wont fit between the ic's.

  23. #653

    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    This thread is entertaining. 4Sevens seriously owes you guys. I was just looking for a cheap car light and was looking at the p0, but after reading how you guys have now figured out 3 different ways to 'fix' your broken p0s I think that is a bad sign. Time to issue a fix/recall 4sevens.

  24. #654
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    He has to pry mine out of my dead hands
    I have given mine too mutch bling and love by now to even think about rma. You won't find a similar sized aaa light anywhere. And you wont find a smooth flood aaa light like this. It's a cheap little thing, and i dont mind fixing it. No one makes a scene if their 20$ drop in module says poof. When it works, its the best keychain light out there, so i enjoy making it work. Would i buy another one if mine went "poof beyond repair" ? yes, no doubt.
    Last edited by jorn; 02-26-2012 at 11:33 AM.

  25. #655

    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Good money is good money. I don't accept the above argument that nothing is wrong with the product as long as I don't use it in a certain way. I'm not talking about dropping it out of an airplane at altitude and expecting it to work afterwards. I just want to be able to use the most widely available/used AAA rechargeable battery in the world without having to worry about destroying it. It's a borderline design flaw IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by budynabuick View Post
    I find it amazing that a company would release a light that will not receive the pos end of NIMH! It"s baffling that 4-7"s has not spoken (that I know of) on this issue. I was interested in one of these lights. That is the good thing about a thread like this as 4-7"s will surely see it and hopefully correct this problem and THEN fancy up their web design/packaging. Tickled, if you are looking for flood, I highly recommend the Klarus MIX6. Keith
    I'd seen the MiX6 before but I'm not convinced that it'd be different enough from the LD01 SS I already have to justify the added expense. The lack of tailstanding and having strobe in the mode cycle bug me too.

  26. #656
    Flashaholic Streamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommygun45 View Post
    This thread is entertaining. 4Sevens seriously owes you guys. I was just looking for a cheap car light and was looking at the p0, but after reading how you guys have now figured out 3 different ways to 'fix' your broken p0s I think that is a bad sign. Time to issue a fix/recall 4sevens.
    I definitely think that just a handfull of us here are expressing our NIMH requirements and that we represent a "minority" in the problems thus far experienced.

    I'm willing to bet the "majority" of P0 purchasers are running the included Duracell battery in their units and are experiencing no problems whatsoever.

    I'm a proponent of NIMH Eneloops and have experienced the dreaded contact problems but luckily no "pooff". I was able to temporarily fix the issue by blob soldering ....but the problem resurfaced (pun intended)...so NOW, I use alkalines with the narrow nipples and it runs perfect.
    Last edited by Streamer; 02-26-2012 at 10:04 PM.

  27. #657
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Quote Originally Posted by jorn View Post
    0,5cm x 2 = 1 cm. aaa = 1cm. No room for nipple at all if 2 of those magic ic's were put on the backside of the board.
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    the fix would be right here. just spec small chips. IC's with legs is sooooo Y2K
    I agree with your point 127.0.0.1,
    The picture posted is of an IC with 29 contact points. The IC in the Preon0 is a 6 leaded IC that measures 1.75mm W. X 3mm L. X 0.5mm H(minus the legs). That would mean that if the same style of technology as the picture that was posted is used to build the IC's for the Proen0 they would only measure approximately ~0.9mm W. X ~2mm L. X 0.35mm H. Since it has no legs that would leave about an extra ~0.5mm of space adjacent to each side of the IC, or an extra 1mm of battery annode space between the two ICs. That is without rotating the chip which would gain an additional ~ 0.5mm. Although all of this is my speculation. I am sure if the driver were to incorporate these smaller higher density ICs, the circut board would probably fit most all of the components on the front LED side of the board, and would not interfere with the battery contact in any way.
    GL

  28. #658
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    I used an Eneloop in my P0 for several weeks without any problems. But, you guys got me spooked, and I switched to an Energizer lithium a couple days ago. So far, mine's still going strong. But, every time I use it, I half expect it to flicker out and leave me in darkness.
    gbelleh

  29. #659
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    I don't understand why they just can't make the positive battery contact a little thicker. Make it level with the surface of the IC's. They might have to make some adjustments to threading/o-ring placement, but a slightly thicker battery contact would fix everything. The PO would only be slightly longer, and as small as it is already, that wouldn't bother me at all. Then it would work with any cell you could poke in it! I was planning on running my Eneloops, and the fact that I can't, is crap! Just my humble opinion.
    Jeff

  30. #660
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    Default Re: Foursevens Preon P0

    Ah, what can i say, every time 4Sevens releases a new light there's problems to be solved by us flashoholics, like the loose threads on the minis, mode skipping on the Quarks, buggy buck/boost converters, preflash, bad electrical contacts and now this?

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