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Thread: Another cable gland question.

  1. #1
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    Shrug Another cable gland question.

    Hi all,

    Well after a bit of time out from light building/overhauling (first child coming into the world has been keeping me busy) it's time to get back to it.

    I've decided to take off the old glands and cable from the can light and put new ones on. But in doing this I have discovered an issue that I am hoping that you enlightened folk can help with...

    I've been looking at the Agro glands with strain relief, but to me it seems I have not got standard size threads and holes from the previous ones (I figure they must be some sort of standard as of course they are not custom made, but I cannot find matching dimensions).

    Dimensions as best I can measure them on the old ones are:

    External thread: 18.25mm
    Internal hole/thread (can-lid & light head): approx. 17.5-18mm

    The light was produced in Germany if that makes much difference!?!?

    Any suggestions and advice are much appreciated.

    Cheers, Joel.

  2. #2
    Enlightened josb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Hey Joel,

    Probably quite easy Lamp made in germany, this is PG thread, just check this link http://www.vdwalle.com/knowledgebase/draad/pg1.htm
    Kind regards,
    JosB

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by josb View Post
    Hey Joel,

    Probably quite easy Lamp made in germany, this is PG thread, just check this link http://www.vdwalle.com/knowledgebase/draad/pg1.htm
    Thanks JosB,

    Just the sort of thing I was looking for.

    Seems from that chart that I am in the realm of a Pg11!?!?
    Which if that is the case I know someone nearby with the Agro ones in that size.

    Thanks for your help.
    Joel.

  4. #4

    Default

    The dive rite branded glands, I think they Argo made, are the same dimensions. You can get them from DiveGearExpress.com, though being in Europe that might not be helpful.


    Regards,
    Damien Siviero
    http://damiensiviero.com
    Regards,
    Damien Siviero
    http://damiensiviero.com

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    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    you can check adapter ''metric to PG'' like http://www.sealconusa.com/adapter-nc-metric-pg.html

    ehhh.... but there is to big difference in thread M16x1,5 to PG9 end then you need enlarger from PG9 to PG11

    better to http://www.sealconusa.com/strainrelief_index.htm
    Last edited by lucca brassi; 01-19-2012 at 11:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Cheers Damien and Lucca,

    Damien: thanks for the info on the Dive Rite ones. I had been checking them out on DGE, but since the had no measurements on there I gave up on them.

    Lucca: thanks also. Not which one you were referring to with your second link as it goes to the main page (unless you put the little yellow pins on the Mini WADI??)

    Waiting to see if the guy locally here has the AGRO ones in the right size, failing that I'll be back to these suggestions

    Joel.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    No I think on these with ''elongated thread '' it looks like that which uses ''Light for Me'' also produced from Agro.
    Last edited by lucca brassi; 01-21-2012 at 04:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoelSim View Post
    ........Waiting to see if the guy locally here has the AGRO ones in the right size ......
    Hello Joel,

    Maybe wise if you fill your profile a bit further e.g. the place where you live :-)
    Now you get all kinds of help and links but nobody knows where you're from, maybe not usefull to give you advise from Europe if you are living in the States or so.
    Kind regards,
    JosB

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    Shrug Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by josb View Post
    Hello Joel,

    Maybe wise if you fill your profile a bit further e.g. the place where you live :-)
    Now you get all kinds of help and links but nobody knows where you're from, maybe not usefull to give you advise from Europe if you are living in the States or so.
    Yes you've got a point there

    Only yesterday did I notice that it didn't say where I was living. I'll go and sort that out.

    For the record: Norway

    Joel

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    Enlightened josb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoelSim View Post
    ...For the record: Norway

    Joel
    OK makes life a lot easier I guess.
    I don't know how good your German is but they have the PG threaded cable glands: kabelverschaubungen
    Or this Dutch site, but also in English where they also sell them: kabeldoorvoeren
    Kind regards,
    JosB

  11. #11

    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Or you have a look here:

    http://www.eibmarkt.com/cgi-bin/eibm...View/NS0425875

    They have all other Aggro glands, too. But you have to look under "Kaiser".

    Greetings

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    ej ! that's the price I'm buying glands here local ... excellent find :-) also have same AGRO ID code !
    Last edited by lucca brassi; 01-22-2012 at 07:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Thanks everyone for your responses and links.

    I've got my hands on some AGRO glands now (Pg9's though) waiting for some Pg11/Pg9 reductions to turn up now and then it's time to assemble.

    Looking at using this cable:

    https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3~no_en/elfa/init.do?item=55-644-04

    A
    ny thoughts?

    I see that some a lot of people are using 1.5mm cores. Is there any real issue using 1.0mm cores?

    I selected the above linked cable partly as it seems it should be flexible and also the over all diameter is 8.2mm, which falls into the suggested range of the AGRO glands(8.8mm max.)

    Again...any thoughts?

    Cheers,
    Joel.

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    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Yes you can simply use that cord , but why with 4 wires, in that case outer insulation is thinner ? You have same cable in 1,00mm2 version or 1,5mm2 version

    https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3...item=55-644-02 or https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3...item=55-644-07 .

    Actually many light producers uses a lot thicker cable , ( I have 4mm2 = AWG11 ;-) ) Maybe the main reason is that it is a lot simple to handle with little thick and heavy cable , special if you have to operate in these DIR exercises when you always have to have ''clean profil '' and cable stored behind waist strap ( they educated me so and I just made my cable in that way and it stays so ;-))

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by lucca brassi View Post
    Yes you can simply use that cord , but why with 4 wires, in that case outer insulation is thinner ? You have same cable in 1,00mm2 version or 1,5mm2 version

    https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3...item=55-644-02 or https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3...item=55-644-07 .

    Actually many light producers uses a lot thicker cable , ( I have 4mm2 = AWG11 ;-) ) Maybe the main reason is that it is a lot simple to handle with little thick and heavy cable , special if you have to operate in these DIR exercises when you always have to have ''clean profil '' and cable stored behind waist strap ( they educated me so and I just made my cable in that way and it stays so ;-))
    Thanks for your response once again Lucca...

    I did see the thicker cables and the 2 core ones. The reason against the thicker cable options was simply due to what the specifications on the cable glands are. I'm waiting for the cable to arrive (hopefully today) so I can physically see and touch it and then decide if I feel that it is too thin/delicate.

    As to why 4 core. I asked this same question of a guy here in Norway who builds lights. He commented that he has found that the 2 core cables often have the insulation deform more inside the glands and give opportunity to leaks. Sounded like a reasonable explanation to me. So for now I went with the 4 core.

    Was I wrong to assume that the cable absolutely must fall within the specs of the cable glands?

    Cheers,
    Joel.

    P.S. Bit of a shame that this rebuild won't be ready for testing and diving for my Normoxic Trimix course this weekend....

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    He commented that he has found that the 2 core cables often have the insulation deform more inside the glands and give opportunity to leaks.
    well thats probably comes from that people tighten cable gland simply to much with proportional equation tighten more = seal more ..... NO ! In that case gland nut deformate seal inside and gland which may leak ... in general 4 wire or even multiple wire is more homogeneous assembly for tightening sure ;-) . I think cable through gland lubricated with Sikaflex and softly tighten is quite enough.


    Was I wrong to assume that the cable absolutely must fall within the specs of the cable glands?
    no , just to fit cable through

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by lucca brassi View Post
    well thats probably comes from that people tighten cable gland simply to much with proportional equation tighten more = seal more ..... NO ! In that case gland nut deformate seal inside and gland which may leak ... in general 4 wire or even multiple wire is more homogeneous assembly for tightening sure ;-) . I think cable through gland lubricated with Sikaflex and softly tighten is quite enough.
    Yes I did kind of wonder whether the real problem was people over tightening the gland, more so than it being due to how many cores the cable has.

    I only just noticed that you said you lubricate the cable with Sikaflex....do you do this purely so it slides easier or also to help create a better seal??

    Cheers,
    Joel.

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by lucca brassi View Post
    ..... I think cable through gland lubricated with Sikaflex and softly tighten is quite enough....no , just to fit cable through
    I thought Sikaflex is a kind of glue and not a lubricant
    If you want to lubricate you should use vaseline or silicone grease.

    These cable glands with IP6.8 rating should be fine and waterproof just by tightning the end nut correctly.
    Kind regards,
    JosB

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by josb View Post
    I thought Sikaflex is a kind of glue and not a lubricant
    If you want to lubricate you should use vaseline or silicone grease.

    These cable glands with IP6.8 rating should be fine and waterproof just by tightning the end nut correctly.
    Exactly the reason I was asking.....

    Was (and still am) curious as to whether it was a typo and he actually meant silicon grease or if in fact he was using a small amount of sikaflex (while still wet) to slide the cable through and then using it as another sealing component!?!?!

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    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    When aplaying sikaflex I get it before in little in warm water (45-50°C )to become more viscous . Point si to aplay thin film which made better seal (not hard gluing together) .To lubricate is just little silly expression .

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoelSim View Post
    Yes I did kind of wonder whether the real problem was people over tightening the gland, more so than it being due to how many cores the cable has.
    .
    If I can add something...

    I don't believe you can overtighten a gland, unless it is a plastic one and you break it by jumping over the thread. It's all about compressing the cable to at least what the water pressure will compress it to at the maximum depth you dive. If the water pressure can compress it further than what you've tightened it to then there will be a gap, and water will leak in. How much is enough tightening? to be honest I don't know so I do it up as tight as possible without breaking and back it up like Lucca with Sikaflex.

    What I also do is back it up with a second internal compression. I coat the end of the cable with Sikaflex and then tie a cable-tie as tightly as possible. Then coat more Sikaflex over the top of the cable-tie and pull all this black blob hard against the inside of the gland. Then do up the gland. The tie acts as a extra stop against tugging the cable.


    One time I made the mistake of forgetting to put the nut on the cable before doing all this and the wand was sealed and dry before I realised. I ended up tying two cable ties in front of the open gland and covering it all with metal epoxy (JB Weld). Thankfully it worked and never leaked but looks very untidy. Don't do what I did and forget to put the nuts on the cable!

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by lucca brassi View Post
    When aplaying sikaflex I get it before in little in warm water (45-50°C )to become more viscous . Point si to aplay thin film which made better seal (not hard gluing together) .To lubricate is just little silly expression .
    Thanks for clarifying that Lucca. This is how I understood what you said, but I was unsure if I understood correctly.

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klem View Post
    If I can add something...

    I don't believe you can overtighten a gland, unless it is a plastic one and you break it by jumping over the thread. It's all about compressing the cable to at least what the water pressure will compress it to at the maximum depth you dive. If the water pressure can compress it further than what you've tightened it to then there will be a gap, and water will leak in. How much is enough tightening? to be honest I don't know so I do it up as tight as possible without breaking and back it up like Lucca with Sikaflex.

    What I also do is back it up with a second internal compression. I coat the end of the cable with Sikaflex and then tie a cable-tie as tightly as possible. Then coat more Sikaflex over the top of the cable-tie and pull all this black blob hard against the inside of the gland. Then do up the gland. The tie acts as a extra stop against tugging the cable.

    One time I made the mistake of forgetting to put the nut on the cable before doing all this and the wand was sealed and dry before I realised. I ended up tying two cable ties in front of the open gland and covering it all with metal epoxy (JB Weld). Thankfully it worked and never leaked but looks very untidy. Don't do what I did and forget to put the nuts on the cable!
    Klem,

    Cheers for the advice and pictures...pictures are always good, lol.

    I wonder a little if your advice stays the same with tightening the gland when it comes to using the AGRO glands, which are quite different internally compared to the one you have pictured??

    I like the idea of the cable tie on the other side of the gland, I had been considering doing that as a "stopper", so to speak.

    I will try my best to not forget the nut on the cable before sealing (good to know you got away with it though). I expect I have now jinxed myself....

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* Klem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Mate, you'll be fine...I make enough mistakes for all of us!

    Never used Agro glands so I cannot comment on the internals but I know several of the regular posters do. No offence to the other posters by I think the long Agro with its strain relief is a bit of overkill where it prevents cables from bending too much. I prefer to be able to bend the cable as close to the canister or wand as possible, especially if it's being jammed into a BC pocket. Strain relief can also come from using a thicker cable.

    The internals of all glands achieve the same thing, a rubber ring compressed around a cable. What I will say is that while metal gives the impression of superior strength the parts appear to be less waterproof (to me anyway) than the nylon variety. I say 'appears' because I have never seen either leak...but you can't help wonder about water getting in between the grey plastic insert and the metal frame. Compared to the nylon variety which is seamless at that point and does not have a separate compressing section. The metal gland has 4 separate parts, whereas nylon glands have 3; one less seam to leak. Metal does look solid and 'commercial' though. I tend to use metal glands on metal surfaces, and nylon glands on nylon surfaces, but for no particular reason.



    (Below) Back and front shots of the same canister plug. Gland fixed to the plug by its own screw but also Devcon (two part metal epoxy). Then the cable-tie and a bath of Sikaflex on the inside provides more than enough 'back-up'. There's no 'opportunity cost' to leaving that inside area empty so may as well fill it up with something flexible and waterproof.
    Last edited by Klem; 01-30-2012 at 05:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klem View Post
    Mate, you'll be fine...I make enough mistakes for all of us!
    You can never make enough mitsakes!!!

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by DIWdiver View Post
    You can never make enough mitsakes!!!
    I know, it's hard...but I try!

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klem View Post
    Mate, you'll be fine...I make enough mistakes for all of us!
    Never used Agro glands so I cannot comment on the internals but I know several of the regular posters do. No offence to the other posters by I think the long Agro with its strain relief is a bit of overkill where it prevents cables from bending too much. I prefer to be able to bend the cable as close to the canister or wand as possible, especially if it's being jammed into a BC pocket. Strain relief can also come from using a thicker cable.


    Then the cable-tie and a bath of Sikaflex on the inside provides more than enough 'back-up'. There's no 'opportunity cost' to leaving that inside area empty so may as well fill it up with something flexible and waterproof.
    Hehe...I'm sure everyone on here wishes you did in fact make enough mistakes for all of us, lol. But where would the fun in that be??
    Here's a little pic of the internals of the AGRO gland (I'll take a guess and say you won't like the amount of parts...I can definitely see your logic of thinking regarding the difference between the plastic and metal ones).



    I don't have concerns with it going into a BC pocket (as I don't have any pockets). But again I see your logic. I chose to go with the strain relief option partly to do with water temp over this way (ie: if water is in double figures for degrees it's a 'warm' day). Thought with the cold water, stopping the cable from bending close to the gland was a good plan...don't know if this was logical or not, but ran with the idea If I was back in Oz I may think differently.

    I see that sealing in the back of the gland could be smart, so that'll be happening.

    Hopefully I'll get it together and test dive it (without battery or electronics) on the weekend while diving on a new mark we have that are hoping for it to be a WWII wreck (2 actually..1 minesweeper, 1 plane).

    Cheers again,
    Joel.

    P.S. My wife was a little concerned yesterday when she wandered past as I was typing my response to you beginning with Klem. Klem is actually the Norwegian word for hug, so she was wondering what on earth I was typing, hehe......
    Last edited by JoelSim; 01-31-2012 at 12:35 AM.

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    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    @ Klem

    I have whole box of metal glands , same as yours if you put some rubber grommet like http://uk.farnell.com/pro-power/6075...0mm/dp/4326295 it looks like AGRO I have do that .



    Sealing like AGRO is very simple do be done ( and I think Halcyon made that way at first proteus (SLA accumulator with acryl lid with no strain relief ) .


    You have to have right ''THREAD ENLAGER '' like PG9 to PG13,5



    under lower PG9 thread some O ring and inside big thread washer from some hardware (plumbing) store ( actually plumbing stores have right sizes with right washers ) but carefully .. washer should be high like cable diameter !

    After washer inside thin SS round nut (instead of plastic cork in AGRO to equlize tighting pressure on rubber washer ) and on the top alo second reducer from PG13,5 to PG9 with upper rubber grommet


    But that way is maybe more costly like ordinary gland ?
    Last edited by lucca brassi; 01-31-2012 at 01:23 AM.

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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    Well finally I was able to get all of this together and do a bit of a pressure test over the weekend. And the good news is....no leaks (so far)

    42m cold water (as in 2 inch thick ice on surface) and no issues.

    Now just have to sort out my driver issues...but that's for another thread.

    Thank you all for your input.

    Cheers, Joel.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another cable gland question.

    new halcyon :
    New for 2012
    Polymer cord sealing glands now come with a built-in cord strain-relief




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