Kavelight P60 Headlamp

[RCantor]

Hmmm. I'd like to use 2 reflectored XMLs at 3.5 Amps and get most combinations of their different modes. One will have a moonlight low then M,H, the other will have a standard L,M,H. So I'd need #1L, #2L, #2M, Both M (for more light with less heat), #2H, both H. 6 modes. Can it be done? Is there room for a flat 4 position switch for off, 1 on, other on, both on?

If you can give me the 6 modes can you pot it after it's done?

Thanks!

[kevinm]

Hmmm. I'd like to use 2 reflectored XMLs at 3.5 Amps and get most combinations of their different modes. One will have a moonlight low then M,H, the other will have a standard L,M,H. So I'd need #1L, #2L, #2M, Both M (for more light with less heat), #2H, both H. 6 modes. Can it be done? Is there room for a flat 4 position switch for off, 1 on, other on, both on?

If you can give me the 6 modes can you pot it after it's done?

Thanks!

I'm pretty sure 2 reflectored modules won't fit. So far, there isn't a waterproof switch that is 4 position, but I can look for one that isn't waterproof. Let's call that Option A.

Option B is that I program the modules so that you could click through the modes
#1L, #2L, #2M, both M, #2 H, and both H. It would be a lot of clicking though.

Also, I have not made any 3.5A modules yet, but I can give it a shot. I know I can get and reprogram some 3A modules, though. Potting them with JB Weld should work, right? It's not electrically conductive, but is thermally conductive.

Looking at switches...

Kevin

[Mooreshire]

I have just been told by one modder that they weren't prepared to program this for me:

	Module One (flood)	Module Two (spot)
1st click	low	Off (0%)
2nd click	high	Off (0%)
3rd click	low	low
4th click	medium	medium
5th click	medium	high

Shame, as I think it would be ideal!
I'll keep hunting but I'm under the impression that the best I could get would be a 1-mode flood that stayed constant while I cycled through standard modes on the spot. What do you think KevinM can you put an OFF mode in the lineup like that?

[kevinm]

I have just been told by one modder that they weren't prepared to program this for me:

	Module One (flood)	Module Two (spot)
1st click	low	Off (0%)
2nd click	high	Off (0%)
3rd click	low	low
4th click	medium	medium
5th click	medium	high

Shame, as I think it would be ideal!
I'll keep hunting but I'm under the impression that the best I could get would be a 1-mode flood that stayed constant while I cycled through standard modes on the spot. What do you think KevinM can you put an OFF mode in the lineup like that?

Yep (ish). It wouldn't really be off; it would be 1/255 of the max amperage (so for 3A, about 12mA maximum). That low, and you'd see no light from the emitter, assuming it was an XM-L. If the max amperage is 1.4A, it would be 5mA or less. What max amperage did you have in mind?

Kevin

[VC CH]

hmm . so need to find a good headlamp or bikelamp

[Mooreshire]

Yep (ish). It wouldn't really be off; it would be 1/255 of the max amperage (so for 3A, about 12mA maximum). That low, and you'd see no light from the emitter, assuming it was an XM-L. If the max amperage is 1.4A, it would be 5mA or less. What max amperage did you have in mind?

Kevin

Your OFF(ish) solution sounds perfectly acceptable!

But here I start to reveal myself as an overly eager amateur - I've very limited experience in the driver department and only a vague idea of what I'm reading on Cree's sexy graphs. Math; scary!Just thinking out loud here but...

Assuming XMLs all around... For the flood I imagine something along the lines of 600-800mA for the low, perhaps 1000-1200mA or so as the medium, and no more than 2000-2300mA for the high. Perhaps the spot could start in low at 900-1200mA, a medium mode around 2200mA, and then have the absurd high setting that isn't intended for prolonged use. These would still be in the weird order I listed previously in the table.

I suppose on a scale of '1 to 225' with '225' being 3Amps.... the spot's modes could go 1, 1, 90, 160, 215+ and the flood's could go 60, 170, 60, 110, 110. The flood could, if appropriate, be a lower output circuit with things moved up the 1-225 scale accordingly.

As far as figuring what kind of power I'd be using up with that setup... Combined current draw (not counting losses at the driver, etc. of course) would list out mode-for-mode (flood+spot) along the lines of 800mA+12mA, 2250mA+12mA, 800mA+1200mA, 1460mA+2140mA, 1460mA+2860mA... which makes my two combined modes drawing approximately 0.8A, 2.3A, 2A, 3.6A, and 4.3A together respectively.... and so I could perhaps expect something less than nine hours, three hours, three and a half hours, two hours, or one hour and forty five minutes of burn time from each respective mode on a set of (four parallel-wired mid-range) 2600mAh batteries. None of those current draws sound like they would overdraw the lithium-ion cells, I don't think I would find myself changing out old batteries any more often than i currently do while underground, and I think output will still easily top anything myself or my buddies are currently caving with (and isn't that what really matters?).

I have no clue if ANY of the above estimation/guesswork is anywhere near the mark, but I showed my work in hopes you or someone else catches any dumb mistakes. My brain hurts a little now actually.

For the record Cool White diodes are my (and my video camera's) preference, belt/pack length battery cable keeps my neck happy, I prefer oldschool blade mounts, and I don't need mode memory (back to dim each time I say!).

I was really hoping to spend less than $380 (new Stenlight kit price) getting one of these beauties running. I'm estimating I'll need to set aside $40 for eight quality batteries. I've already wired a four-cell balance plug to a cheap 4x18650 holder so I can charge them properly using my programmable hobby balance charger. How much might you imagine yourself charging for two such programmed P60 modules already installed? Do you have an estimate yet for what the side-socket will add to the cost? Expect $225 from me in the next few days just to reserve my host but then I'll have you wait to send it until the flood-socket is ready for it and if you can (affordably) do the P60s too then I can make an additional payment for those as well as the flood-socket. Either way I'm quite excited at the prospect of owning one of your lovely creations!

[kevinm]

hmm . so need to find a good headlamp or bikelamp

I think I can help.

[kevinm]

I have circuit boards on order and the machining has been ordered! We'll have floods soon!

Now I have to go do taxes.

[kevinm]

Your OFF(ish) solution sounds perfectly acceptable!

But here I start to reveal myself as an overly eager amateur - I've very limited experience in the driver department and only a vague idea of what I'm reading on Cree's sexy graphs. Math; scary!Just thinking out loud here but...

Assuming XMLs all around... For the flood I imagine something along the lines of 600-800mA for the low, perhaps 1000-1200mA or so as the medium, and no more than 2000-2300mA for the high. Perhaps the spot could start in low at 900-1200mA, a medium mode around 2200mA, and then have the absurd high setting that isn't intended for prolonged use. These would still be in the weird order I listed previously in the table.

I suppose on a scale of '1 to 225' with '225' being 3Amps.... the spot's modes could go 1, 1, 90, 160, 215+ and the flood's could go 60, 170, 60, 110, 110. The flood could, if appropriate, be a lower output circuit with things moved up the 1-225 scale accordingly.

As far as figuring what kind of power I'd be using up with that setup... Combined current draw (not counting losses at the driver, etc. of course) would list out mode-for-mode (flood+spot) along the lines of 800mA+12mA, 2250mA+12mA, 800mA+1200mA, 1460mA+2140mA, 1460mA+2860mA... which makes my two combined modes drawing approximately 0.8A, 2.3A, 2A, 3.6A, and 4.3A together respectively.... and so I could perhaps expect something less than nine hours, three hours, three and a half hours, two hours, or one hour and forty five minutes of burn time from each respective mode on a set of (four parallel-wired mid-range) 2600mAh batteries. None of those current draws sound like they would overdraw the lithium-ion cells, I don't think I would find myself changing out old batteries any more often than i currently do while underground, and I think output will still easily top anything myself or my buddies are currently caving with (and isn't that what really matters?).

I have no clue if ANY of the above estimation/guesswork is anywhere near the mark, but I showed my work in hopes you or someone else catches any dumb mistakes. My brain hurts a little now actually.

For the record Cool White diodes are my (and my video camera's) preference, belt/pack length battery cable keeps my neck happy, I prefer oldschool blade mounts, and I don't need mode memory (back to dim each time I say!).

I was really hoping to spend less than $380 (new Stenlight kit price) getting one of these beauties running. I'm estimating I'll need to set aside $40 for eight quality batteries. I've already wired a four-cell balance plug to a cheap 4x18650 holder so I can charge them properly using my programmable hobby balance charger. How much might you imagine yourself charging for two such programmed P60 modules already installed? Do you have an estimate yet for what the side-socket will add to the cost? Expect $225 from me in the next few days just to reserve my host but then I'll have you wait to send it until the flood-socket is ready for it and if you can (affordably) do the P60s too then I can make an additional payment for those as well as the flood-socket. Either way I'm quite excited at the prospect of owning one of your lovely creations!

That, my friend is quite the post! I have to grade some stats exams tonight, so I'll run numbers tomorrow or Wednesday. None of it sounds far off though.

Mine with a single 2.8A XM-L module holds it's own against high end Scurions (the 1500 lumen model) and puts Stenlights to shame!

More to come...
Kevin

[psychbeat]

With a 3.5a spot and 2.8a flood I calculate 40hrs of runtime on low.
About 2hrs on max.
Im using 4 3100mah cells.
Both are 2mode 5% and max.
Low mode is Plenty for most situations.

I say keep it simple - with 12,400mah to burn may as well rock it.

[RCantor]

When you have a chance would you check your PMs? I want to see if you could alter 2 P60s to make the 6 modes mentioned above. To get all the modes I want 6 clicks isn't bad

[kevinm]

Assuming XMLs all around... For the flood I imagine something along the lines of 600-800mA for the low, perhaps 1000-1200mA or so as the medium, and no more than 2000-2300mA for the high. Perhaps the spot could start in low at 900-1200mA, a medium mode around 2200mA, and then have the absurd high setting that isn't intended for prolonged use. These would still be in the weird order I listed previously in the table.

Can do! 700mA for an XML is at least 280 lumens for cool white. 1100mA gives 410 and 2300mA gives 770. All of those are per emitter!

I suppose on a scale of '1 to 225' with '225' being 3Amps.... the spot's modes could go 1, 1, 90, 160, 215+ and the flood's could go 60, 170, 60, 110, 110. The flood could, if appropriate, be a lower output circuit with things moved up the 1-225 scale accordingly.

As far as figuring what kind of power I'd be using up with that setup... Combined current draw (not counting losses at the driver, etc. of course) would list out mode-for-mode (flood+spot) along the lines of 800mA+12mA, 2250mA+12mA, 800mA+1200mA, 1460mA+2140mA, 1460mA+2860mA... which makes my two combined modes drawing approximately 0.8A, 2.3A, 2A, 3.6A, and 4.3A together respectively.... and so I could perhaps expect something less than nine hours, three hours, three and a half hours, two hours, or one hour and forty five minutes of burn time from each respective mode on a set of (four parallel-wired mid-range) 2600mAh batteries. None of those current draws sound like they would overdraw the lithium-ion cells, I don't think I would find myself changing out old batteries any more often than i currently do while underground, and I think output will still easily top anything myself or my buddies are currently caving with (and isn't that what really matters?).

Derating the 2600mAh batteries to 2400mAh to account for losses, I get (in the order listed above, in hours): 12, 4.2, 4.8, 2.7, and 2.2. Not bad.

For the record Cool White diodes are my (and my video camera's) preference, belt/pack length battery cable keeps my neck happy, I prefer oldschool blade mounts, and I don't need mode memory (back to dim each time I say!).

Cool white, blade mount, no memory. Check!

I was really hoping to spend less than $380 (new Stenlight kit price) getting one of these beauties running. I'm estimating I'll need to set aside $40 for eight quality batteries. I've already wired a four-cell balance plug to a cheap 4x18650 holder so I can charge them properly using my programmable hobby balance charger. How much might you imagine yourself charging for two such programmed P60 modules already installed? Do you have an estimate yet for what the side-socket will add to the cost? Expect $225 from me in the next few days just to reserve my host but then I'll have you wait to send it until the flood-socket is ready for it and if you can (affordably) do the P60s too then I can make an additional payment for those as well as the flood-socket. Either way I'm quite excited at the prospect of owning one of your lovely creations!

Still working on the cost of the flood module; I'm hoping for final prices soon. Max would be $70, but I'm hoping to come down from there. The same is true of the flood modules; they cost me $25 to build (with max of 2.8A), but I have a couple on order from DX. If the drivers pan out, they'll be cheap. The first programming is free. So, max, you're looking at $385.

Thanks! I want to see pictures of these dark rock caves.

[kevinm]

When you have a chance would you check your PMs? I want to see if you could alter 2 P60s to make the 6 modes mentioned above. To get all the modes I want 6 clicks isn't bad

Good timing; I just gave up on grading for the night! I think Vinh uses the Atmel IC boards...as long as he does and they are unpotted, we're good to go! I'll look through his thread and see what I can find.

I PM'd him. More info soon!

[kevinm]

You're probably right, as long as I don't bore all the way down to the circuit board. I was worried about shorting, but if the bottom of the well by the board is still annodized, it shouldn't be a problem. All the drop-ins taper at the bottom anyway. I'll have to check on the machinability of hard anno, though.

Mmmmmm...triple...

I talked to the machine shop, and it was as I feared with machining anodized parts. For re-bores, the results are typically not good (since the ano is so hard). I'm dropping off some of the unanodized ones for the re-bore this afternoon!

[RCantor]

The 2 4500Ks that I asked him about are the ones for the headlamp.

Good timing; I just gave up on grading for the night! I think Vinh uses the Atmel IC boards...as long as he does and they are unpotted, we're good to go! I'll look through his thread and see what I can find.

I PM'd him. More info soon!

[karlthev]

Kevin, I probably won't have access to CPF for the next ten days but don't forget me.


Karl

[kevinm]

The 2 4500Ks that I asked him about are the ones for the headlamp.

Good news! Vinh uses a driver based on the Attiny13A. I've programmed 10 so far!

[kevinm]

Kevin, I probably won't have access to CPF for the next ten days but don't forget me.


Karl

Not a chance, Karl! Have fun and be safe.

That reminds me...I'll be out of contact (from everything) til Monday. We're off to help map Wind Cave.

Kevin

[psychbeat]

Good news! Vinh uses a driver based on the Attiny13A. I've programmed 10 so far!

U should reprogram that warm 4a XML Vinh drop I sent u!
Would make a great flood.

[kevinm]

U should reprogram that warm 4a XML Vinh drop I sent u!
Would make a great flood.

That's what I was thinking! The color is beautiful.

[psychbeat]

Yep- ALMOST as good as the 90+CRI XPG

[psychbeat]

Ohh yeah- I was thinking that Vanisle Jesse was right about meters not being very accurate at higher currents and low voltage.

They introduce a lot of resistance even with good leads.


The clamp type would probably be necessary @ these currents.

[kevinm]

Ohh yeah- I was thinking that Vanisle Jesse was right about meters not being very accurate at higher currents and low voltage.

They introduce a lot of resistance even with good leads.


The clamp type would probably be necessary @ these currents.

They make high end leads to get around this...

High CRI sounds great; I'm hoping they will release some XM-L's in high CRI soon!

[wquiles]

Not XM-L, but IS just received the hard to get/find Nichia high CRI LED's in the same bin/color/tint that McGizmo uses on his awesome Hi-CRI LED lights:
https://illuminationsupply.com/nichi...820ac8032de6d8

These have the same exact foot print/pad as the XP-G's, so these are high CRI LED's to use. I got some on order myself

Will

[kevinm]

Not XM-L, but IS just received the hard to get/find Nichia high CRI LED's in the same bin/color/tint that McGizmo uses on his awesome Hi-CRI LED lights:
https://illuminationsupply.com/nichi...820ac8032de6d8

These have the same exact foot print/pad as the XP-G's, so these are high CRI LED's to use. I got some on order myself

Will

Sweet; the pre-order is in! Craig will have most of my money soon.

Thanks, Will.

[Mooreshire]

Payment sent, PM sent. Hope your trip to Wind Cave was awesome. Can't wait to start sporting a Kavelight!

[kevinm]

Thanks! The rebores should be done this week, so the whole batch goes to the anodized next week.

[kevinm]

The re-bores are done; took a bit longer than expected, but they are done! I'm going to pick them up either tomorrow of Monday.

Off to MVOR caving for the weekend!

[karlthev]

OK Kevin...in for two!


Karl

[NVGuide]

This is just the caving light I want. What do you need to take an order?