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Thread: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

  1. #331
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by mohanjude View Post
    Looking at the lux figures the MF MS looks like the output is 324 lux which is similar to POB 35W at 326 and is more than the Abyss at 30W. So am I right in assuming the output is around 36W which is the the roughly the current draw I had on my unit. It also looks to be an improvement on the micro fire warrior and costco 35W HID lights.

    I think you're close on all acounts... I'll call it a 35W light.

    Essentially, it ties the 35W POB for luminus flux, which is pretty good!

    It's a decent improvement over the MF K3500 but in a smaller form factor, with a better battery system, and with better color temperature. Speaking of the color, it's not quite as warm as the Polarion's. If the Polarion is 4300K I'm guessing this light is 4500-4600K. A really pleasing color actually!

    Beam artifacts really aren't terrible and I'd put them on par with the K3500 or smooth WE Boxer. Color consistency is much better than a WE Boxer, AE24W or AE25W. The beam doesn't 'rainbow' much when rolling or tipping the light up or down. I suspect that's because it's not under driving the bulb like the aforementioned lights. Also, it doesn't flicker like the under driven K3500. I've noticed that the arc tends to wander around on under driven HIDs even when the light is sitting on a table perfectly still. The Magic-Fire doesn't do that.

    Other than the tight batteries which required a gun-smithing chamfering tool on the battery tube, saving a lot of sanding, the light appears to be okay so far. I was hoping for at least 35W and it seems that I got it. As mentioned before, the batteries were at 50-60% discharge when I tested the output. I'm recharging the same cells now and will perform the test a second time tomorrow. I suspect the output might increase a small amount.

  2. #332
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by TEEJ View Post
    Mine says Gashfire
    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    my tailcap says Gashfire
    Yay, new ****fire name.

    FWIW, "Gash" is a nautical term for Trash/Garbage. LOL
    Resistance is futile...

  3. #333

    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by DM51 View Post
    Yay, new ****fire name.

    FWIW, "Gash" is a nautical term for Trash/Garbage. LOL
    LOL

    Its slang for a few things....

  4. #334
    Flashaholic* Lips's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    It has a slightly pinkish hue as do the L35 and N30.



    OK now for the beamshots at 350 Yards

    These too pics are a nice comparison of output and beam characteristics. Sounds like it may be a little variation in output between lights...

    Anybody else have a N30 or L35 for more beamshots!




    Magic Scorpion - not a really usable light at 350 Yards - too floody with small reflector




    N30 - Usable at 350


  5. #335
    Flashaholic* RichS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    .....
    Last edited by RichS; 03-09-2012 at 12:35 PM.

  6. #336

    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by RichS View Post
    Don't know if anyone can help me out here, but I can't seem to find any tracking info on my shipment that was sent 9 days ago. Should I be using another site to check the status? I paid for DHL not EMS shipping.
    The tracking number is: RF077816339SG - http://www.speedpost.com.sg/

    Here you go...


    RF077816339SG
    Despatch No.: 4119
    Beat No.:
    *
    Status Date Status Description
    29-02-2012 INFORMATION RECEIVED*
    (This is not an acknowledgment of the physical receipt of the stated Registered Article)
    02-03-2012 Despatched to overseas (Country code: US)
    06-03-2012 Arrived at overseas (Country code: US)


    And on USPS.com ( the tracking number works here)



    RF077816339SG
    Processed Through Sort Facility
    March 06, 2012, 6:13 am
    ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)*
    Registered Mail™
    Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
    Processed Through Sort Facility
    March 02, 2012, 5:22 pm
    SINGAPORE,*SINGAPORE
    Last edited by mohanjude; 03-09-2012 at 10:00 AM.
    During the day when I don't need a torch ... RC is my hobby http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/47842/Always on the lookout for McGizmo/Kuku Titanium torches with Trits..

  7. #337

    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Better post shipment related issues on the other thread
    During the day when I don't need a torch ... RC is my hobby http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/47842/Always on the lookout for McGizmo/Kuku Titanium torches with Trits..

  8. #338

    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Yes, please head over to the CPF Marketplace. I suggest posting in this thread first.

    BTW, that doesn't look like a DHL number.

    Wilkey

  9. #339
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Some pictures everyone....

    Next to a few other lights


    Some beam shots at 15 feet






    Peak lux of 237 at 56 sec. with fully charged cells. Slightly more output than a 35W POB (sorry about the fuzzy pic)


    2.22lbs (1.010kg) with 4 x 18650 Ultra-Fire "3000mah" cells


    After 20 minutes of run time






    Notice the gap left between the head and the bezel when the light is at ideal focus


    Calculated lux at 1m (measured at 5m)
    Magic Fire 138,000 (My SR90 measures 107,500)

    Estimated lumens, based on other know lights (ceiling bouce)
    3150-3250



    Jil Lite EZNite 10W HID 4 x "3V" RCR123s
    28 lux stabilized at 1:15
    45 lux peak at 14 sec

    Jil Lite EZNite 10W HID 4 x 4.2V AW RCR123s (Seriously Overdriven)
    56 lux stabilized at 1:10
    84 lux peak at 16 sec


    AE Light PL24/S 24W HID
    100 lux stabilized at 1:00
    101 lux peak


    Wolf Eyes Boxer 24W HID
    151 lux stabilized at 1:35
    152 lux peak

    Olight SR90
    245 lux high
    64 lux low

    Microfire Warrior K3500 35W HID
    305 lux stabilized at 1:30
    310 lux peak


    Costco / Harbor Freight 35W HID
    296 lux stabilized at 1:10
    419 lux peak at 35 sec.

    Magic Scorpion "40W" HID
    327 lux stabilized at 1:15 sec
    328 lux peak at 56 sec

    Power on Board 35W HID
    326 lux stabilized at 1:35
    333 lux peak at 2:00

    Polarion Abyss Dual S 30W-45W @ 45W
    624 lux stabilized at 54 sec. 45W
    946 lux peak at 8 sec. 45W

    Polarion Abyss Dual S 30W-45W @30W
    276 lux stabilized at 46 sec. 30W
    404 lux peak at 11 sec. 30W

    Polarion PH50 Helios 50W HID
    650 lux stabilized at 50 sec.
    1000 lux peak at 9 sec.


    Polarion Night Reaper (CSWL) 50+W HID
    740 lux stabilized at 1:00
    1134 lux peak at 11 sec.
    Last edited by Patriot; 03-09-2012 at 10:42 AM.

  10. #340
    Flashaholic* RichS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by mohanjude View Post
    Here you go...
    Thanks mohanjude!!! Sorry, should have asked this question elsewhere.

    Patriot - thank you so much for the detailed performance information! I am now, once again, very excited for my light to be delivered!!

  11. #341

    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Good review Patriot. Good to know it's going to be good bright light when I get my new bulb. Your just getting me more excited to see my light fired up in person.

  12. #342

    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    Other than the tight batteries which required a gun-smithing chamfering tool on the battery tube...
    I have a chamfering tool, but I don't think mine works on artillery. I need to borrow yours

  13. #343
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Interesting, mine was received poorly packaged, too but cosmetically perfect. No sharp lip inside battery tube that required dremel assistance, either. Unfortunately, beyond a few starting flickers, the light doesn't work. Hopes were raised after the first run DRY torch that I purchased from Ric. Internal fit and finish as befits a budget HID

  14. #344

    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by jefft View Post
    Interesting, mine was received poorly packaged, too but cosmetically perfect. No sharp lip inside battery tube that required dremel assistance, either. Unfortunately, beyond a few starting flickers, the light doesn't work. Hopes were raised after the first run DRY torch that I purchased from Ric. Internal fit and finish as befits a budget HID
    This might be an obvious question, but are the cells you're using up to the task? Reports are that it could pull 4-6 A on strike. Before I got my new set of AW3100, I used some AW17670 I had lying about and my unit sparked, lit up, and then promptly shut down after a second or two.

    Wilkey

  15. #345
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    Default

    Wilkey, I've tried a set of Callie's Kustoms, redilast, and AW's. When I get back home I was going to try a set of AW IMRs, too.

  16. #346

    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Ah. It doesn't look too good, I'm afraid.

    Wilkey

  17. #347
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginseng View Post
    ........... Reports are that it could pull 4-6 A on strike...........

    Wilkey
    My amprobe's very first reading of the strike Amperage is 6.3 and I'm sure there's a micro-second of display delay when it's even higher. I'd guess 6.5 to 7 Amps.
    WWII 60" Anti Aircraft Carbon Arc (Sold), Short Arcs: 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600 Watt M-134 Gun Light, 500 Watt X-500-14s, 500 Watt Starbursts, 300 Watt Locators, Megaray, 150 Watt Set Beam & Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, LarryK14@52V

  18. #348

    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    My amprobe's very first reading of the strike Amperage is 6.3 and I'm sure there's a micro-second of display delay when it's even higher. I'd guess 6.5 to 7 Amps.
    That's fairly beefy. Does anyone have any idea at what point these protected cells' protection kicks in? It's some sort of temperature-triggered limiter isn't it? Or have I got that totally wrong being an electrophobe.

    Wilkey

  19. #349

    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Mines been firing up on fairly ordinary Tenergy 2600 18650's.

  20. #350
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginseng View Post
    It's some sort of temperature-triggered limiter isn't it? Or have I got that totally wrong being an electrophobe.

    Wilkey

    I think the current is set differently in each manufacturer's protected cell based off of each cell's safe performance limits. If I'm understanding it correctly that 6-7A workload is being shared / divided by four big cells in the case of the Magic Fire, so the actual current is more like 1.5A per cell which isn't much. Typical safe sustained discharge rate for a single li-ion cell is 2C or 5000mA for a 2500mah cell. Instantaneous or spike current protection might be set a bit higher though. BVH or other battery dudes please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

    Temperature is one of the limiting triggers for a good quality cell but there are others as well...

    Excessive current during charging or discharging,
    Over voltage
    Under voltage
    Short circuit
    High ambient temperature
    Pressure build up inside the cell

  21. #351
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    The MFMS batteries are in Series (accumulating Voltage, not Amp hours) so each cell is seeing the 6+ Amp draw for a micro-second. (That's probably close to a 100 Watt, micro-second draw!) If in parallel, then Amp Hrs accumulate and load is divided over number of cells. I am not an expert but I believe the current trip is actually based on sensed current flow. Usually there are other protection circuits in the PCB as Patriot mentioned, of which temp may be one.
    Last edited by BVH; 03-11-2012 at 10:06 AM.
    WWII 60" Anti Aircraft Carbon Arc (Sold), Short Arcs: 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600 Watt M-134 Gun Light, 500 Watt X-500-14s, 500 Watt Starbursts, 300 Watt Locators, Megaray, 150 Watt Set Beam & Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, LarryK14@52V

  22. #352

    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Fascinating. Thank you for the informative reply. This could explain why the 1600 mAh 17670 trip out but most 18650 of 2200 mAh or more do not.

    Wilkey

  23. #353
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Wow! Each cell when in series. Thanks for the good info BVH. Always appreciate your insight.

  24. #354
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    The MFMS batteries are in Series (accumulating Voltage, not Amp hours) so each cell is seeing the 6+ Amp draw for a micro-second. (That's probably close to a 100 Watt, micro-second draw!) If in parallel, then Amp Hrs accumulate and load is divided over number of cells. I am not an expert but I believe the current trip is actually based on sensed current flow. Usually there are other protection circuits in the PCB as Patriot mentioned, of which temp may be one.
    +1 That's right. My MF levels out at 2.35a for example. Since it's in series, that's about 16v running x 2.35 = 37.6w. On startup I see 4.07a (it could be that my DMM isn't fast enough to read that first millsecond of higher startup amperage, I don't know). This is with Redilast 2900s. I suspect that the startup (as well as running) amperage would be higher with lower quality cells due to the driver compensating for more voltage drop that occurs with lower quality cells.
    Last edited by Colonel Sanders; 03-11-2012 at 07:23 PM.

  25. #355
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Sanders View Post
    +1 That's right. My MF levels out at 2.35a for example. Since it's in series, that's about 16v running x 2.35 = 37.6w. On startup I see 4.07a (it could be that my DMM isn't fast enough to read that first millsecond of higher startup amperage, I don't know). This is with Redilast 2900s. I suspect that the startup (as well as running) amperage would be higher with lower quality cells due to the driver compensating for more voltage drop that occurs with lower quality cells.
    Sad to see someone else has a 29-30 Watt output light. I thought I would be all alone. My Amprobe is a very expensive (for what it is) high accuracy milliamp capable meter. I would hope and expect that it would be quick to display results.
    WWII 60" Anti Aircraft Carbon Arc (Sold), Short Arcs: 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600 Watt M-134 Gun Light, 500 Watt X-500-14s, 500 Watt Starbursts, 300 Watt Locators, Megaray, 150 Watt Set Beam & Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, LarryK14@52V

  26. #356
    Flashaholic* Fusion_m8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Just a friendly reminder:

    Here's a great article with nice graphic pictures about using untrusted and unproven brands of 18650s(ULTRAFIRE in this case) in a high current application where 2 or more cells are connected in series. Remember the risk of cells exploding increases proportionally with the number of cells connected in series.

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...000mA-exploded

    If unprotected cells are being connected in series, use safe chemistry cells such as AW IMR or Panasonic CGR cells to minimise risk of explosions/fire.
    Last edited by Fusion_m8; 03-12-2012 at 01:11 AM.
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  27. #357
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by jefft View Post
    Interesting, mine was received poorly packaged, too but cosmetically perfect. No sharp lip inside battery tube that required dremel assistance, either. Unfortunately, beyond a few starting flickers, the light doesn't work. Hopes were raised after the first run DRY torch that I purchased from Ric. Internal fit and finish as befits a budget HID
    Please could you also post this information in this thread in CPFMP, where there is a discussion about the large number of these lights that have been received in damaged/defective condition.
    Resistance is futile...

  28. #358
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    My light arrived from Singapore. I got lucky. It doesn't have any exterior damage. There was some styrofoam under the bubble wrapping. The light works but is under powered just like BVH's unit. I measured 2.2 amps with AW's 2600mAh batteries. Didn't measure volts under use so I don't know the exact power draw but it should be around 35 watts from the batteries and under 30 watts to the bulb. I tried it last night and it's still quite nice regarding power to size ratio.

    By the way my AW 2600mAh did not fit in the light. Trustfire "flame" 2400mAh batteries did fit.

  29. #359
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    Sad to see someone else has a 29-30 Watt output light. I thought I would be all alone. My Amprobe is a very expensive (for what it is) high accuracy milliamp capable meter. I would hope and expect that it would be quick to display results.
    The Amprobe is what I'm using also. I should point out that though not a true 40w to the bulb, this is one VERY impressive light for the size (fits just fine in my coat pocket.) After adjusting the reflector depth I am 100% satisfied with this light. It certainly out performs my Stanley and is worlds more portible...fits nicely in the hand and is fairly well balanced.

  30. #360
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight

    Having used the light for a week, there are a few things that I really like about it. However, there are 5 issues that would improve value, usability and potentially increase this light's status among end users, primarily the CPF crowd.

    If you're listening Ric, here they are...

    1) Increase the width of the battery compartment to allow for a wider range of 18650s, especially those with higher capacities. Even .0100 would help greatly in this area.

    2) Chamfer / bevel the interior edge of the battery tube. Even when there's ample cell clearance it's just asking for trouble to have a 90° machined edge present, ready to peel back the protective covering of expensive cells.

    3) Get rid of the two solder blobs on the head of the light. If you load or unload the batteries from the head side, the blobs hook the the battery carrier contact springs and bend them. Alternately, fix issues 1 & 2 and give specific instructions to only load from the tail cap side. I recommend removing the blobs regardless.

    4) Offer this light with both smooth and orange peel reflectors. It's not really a throw HID due to its compactness and although some will take all of the throw this design can achieve, others would appreciate a smoother, all purpose beam.

    5)Update the ballast to provide an actual 40 watts or simply change the advertising description to 35W Magic Fire. Each of us who purchased this light before BVH's tests bought on the notion that we were sending money for a 40W ultra-compact HID. Turns out it's only 29-36W, depending on sample variation. Frankly, I'm not disappointed with the output considering the size and price. A 35W light results in a bit more run-time and lower exterior temperatures as compared to a 40W version. I just like to know exactly what I'm buying regardless.


    The Magic Fire doesn't replace dedicated, top tier, HID search lights and wasn't designed to. However, it could certainly fit the bill as a recreational light for walking the dog, taking night time nature hikes, zoo nights or other non-critical activities. At under $200 shipped, I think the Magic Fire is a solid HID with a conventional form factor. It sets itself apart from the proprietary battery packs and baseball bat sized HIDs of the ebay variety. If these few, mostly minor things were addressed I think this light would earn credit with the CPF community. The shipping issues are being addressed elsewhere.
    Last edited by Patriot; 03-14-2012 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Edited to read 29-36W

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