ZL H600 Thru-hiker noob

Hi All,

I have need of a sound knowledge base. I have been reading through posts for 2 weeks, but still haven't found any posts with definitive answers for my context ... so I figured I'd have to ask directly before I commit to a purchase.

I am about to do a long distance hike ... a domestic "yo-yo" that will take me about 5,000 miles and seven months to complete. I'll have two pieces of "tech" ... a headlamp and my i-phone4. Based on my preliminary schedule, I should find myself in a town every nine to fifteen days where I'll have access to the power-grid.

I am interested in taking the Zebralight H600 cool running off the 18650's, specifically for its long duration run times. I am interested in taking the Xtar WP2 II charger, specifically because the USB out would allow me to both use 18650 cells to re-charge my i-phone on the trail as well as act as charger in town. I have read enough here to be respectful of the 18650 batteries. I would want to spend the money on solid protected AW or Eagletac 3100 aMh cells. I see the Xtar is reviewed as a solid charger with a safe charging profile. I would be looking at carrying 5 cells, again to power the HL and recharge my phone through the Xtar's USB out. I will not be able to carry a volt meter.

My concerns/questions:

I will be in very hot and very cold climates. How do I protect the cells in situations where I cannot regulate outside temperature (particularly hot)? How big of a concern is this?
Would the 3100aMh be inherently more dangerous in my situation? Should I go with something with less capacity?
Are there any concerns using the Xtar WP2 II to charge my i-phone in the field?
I'll be running these cells very hard day after day, week after week ... do I need to replace them every few months to ensure safety? (I do have several scheduled mail-drops where this would be feasible if planned ahead.) Without a volt meter to monitor, how would I know?
What other concerns am I missing?

This forum is fantastic, and I think I found a new hobby for when I return home but for now the wealth of information is almost overwhelming. I am afraid I am missing a critical piece particularly in the context of a long distance thru hiker who is a noob with 18650 cells.

I appreciate any feedback you can give.

As a Post Script I should note I debated in which forum to post this question. I choose "recommend" because that seemed the nature of my question, as opposed to the Head-Lamp forum. Hope I choose properly.

Moving this to Flashlights Electronics, Batteries Included forum. Just a personal observation, you may need more than one light, not counting the Iphone 4 and its light capability. Good luck in your quest.

Bill

Thanks for moving me to the right forum Bill. My first post ... I couldn't decide where it belonged!

I should have noted, because of the distance and speed I'll be traveling I am trying to go as light as possible, with a base weight under 10 pounds. (the HL is an accepted luxury because I'll be moving before dawn and after dark) It would be hard to justify two lights. I have left out other items to make room/weight tolerance for the one light. But ... on the other hand I am here because I need suggestions.

Thanks again Bill.

I'm gonna follow this thread... very interested hearing people's solutions for long-term power off-grid. I camp a bit too (but nowhere near AT thru hike) and know you'll be running lights many hours a night, but also know that using your night vision, you can can quite easily live on 2 lumens or less (which for the ZL 600, could be >70 days @ 4hr/night). The iPhone can actually last quite a long time if you only activate the antenna occasionally, most stick to text/email, and hopefully when the signal is good.

My own set-up is Eneloop AA-based, and I use a Zebralight H51w, and I'll probably also have with me a Steripen UV purifier, digicam, and Garmin GPS. My off-grid trips are short enough that I really don't need to worry about power, other than a few spares and the ability to cannibalize between devices. However, I like to take my Powerfilm Solar AA charger for emergency charging purposes as it's about the size/weight of 2 packs of cigarettes. I have an iGo PowerXtender to charge my iPhone from 2 AAs.

Your set-up sounds really good, especially if those are your only two electrical devices, but have you considered carrying a foldable/rollable 12V solar panel to charge your Xtar? The problem in the East, and on the AT, is that the tree canopy will always make solar charging a stationary exercise, and will basically knock out a day... but I guess so does restocking "on-grid" anyway. Only other huge plus for AAs is that you can get in any store that you happen upon.

you can carry a voltmeter if you get one of Cottonpicker's minimalist models, he should post weights for the ultralight folks but I'd guess around 7 grams.

H600, 5 x 18650's, WP2 II, that's a lot of weight for a thru hike. do you really need all that? i think there are guys who've done the AT with just a Photon.

robostudent5000,

I'll be doing the PCT in one direction and the CDT in the other back to back. I need to be on trail before dawn and in many cases past dark to hit my daily milage to get both trails done in one season. Photon is usually my go-to light at .5 ounces (I used it on the AT) but it doesn't cut it for extensive night hiking.

i see. in that case, i think you might want to look at this poll. the H600 seems to be having some teething problems. i'd take a H51 and a AA charging setup instead. will probably be more reliable. and you know safety will not be an issue. plus you would have the ability to fall back on lithium or alkaline primaries if your charging setup fails. if any one part of an 18650 setup failed, you'd be SOL.

also, the WP2 II is a 2 bay charger. and it takes about 5 hours to charge a pair of 18650 on the faster of the two charging modes. so i don't know how you would charge 5 cells in one night. i have one and i like it. but it can be a bit finicky at times and i would not rely on it as my main charger on a long trip.

Robostudent5000, I really appreciate the advice. I saw this poll, but the response rate seemed so low for the H600 I wasn't sure what to make of it.

The ZLH51 recommendation makes sense. LOL. I actually already bought it, and a set of eneloop XX with charger but have not opened the boxes. I began to have buyers remorse looking at the run times per cell with the H600 and thinking I might get more out of the 18650 for less weight. Plus I was seduced by the Xtar's double duty as a USB output for a back-up to the phone.

What would you think of the eneloop XX's as my platform. Would there be a better option for an AA set-up for the H51 considering my needs? Is there anyway to work in back-up for the phone while on trail, or is that just SOL?

Bear in mind you are absolutely right on track with the weight comment ... I am literally counting every gram I carry and the H600+cells+charger would have been the fourth heaviest item I was packing, right behind pack, quilt and shelter. Even as I say it, it sounds preposterous.

REPPANS, the solar panels are cool and are well suited to sections of the sunny southern half of the PCT ... but I think the present efficiency to weight ratios are too skewed when shooting for a low base pack weight. Should I choose to carry the H600/Xtar set-up I will have to sacrifice half my sleeping pad and my second pair of socks, justified only by the ability to make miles at night. What are you thoughts on the H51 and the eneloops. Have you tried the eneloop plus/XX with the light?

EH4 I had looked at the cottonpickers, but the stripped down nature gave me pause considering the environmental factors. In all honesty though, it might just be that I was scared of the "mad-max" minimalistic vibe they have going.

cfrey.0 said:

Robostudent5000, I really appreciate the advice. I saw this poll, but the response rate seemed so low for the H600 I wasn't sure what to make of it.

The ZLH51 recommendation makes sense. LOL. I actually already bought it, and a set of eneloop XX with charger but have not opened the boxes. I began to have buyers remorse looking at the run times per cell with the H600 and thinking I might get more out of the 18650 for less weight. Plus I was seduced by the Xtar's double duty as a USB output for a back-up to the phone.

What would you think of the eneloop XX's as my platform. Would there be a better option for an AA set-up for the H51 considering my needs? Is there anyway to work in back-up for the phone while on trail, or is that just SOL?

Bear in mind you are absolutely right on track with the weight comment ... I am literally counting every gram I carry and the H600+cells+charger would have been the fourth heaviest item I was packing, right behind pack, quilt and shelter. Even as I say it, it sounds preposterous.

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i don't have any advice about the phone as i always leave mine off on the trail and have never needed a charging setup.

i think the Eneloop XX should work well. it's kind of hard hiking rough terrain on less than 20 lumens IMO. the H51 has medium modes at 30 lumens at 10.5 hours on a 2000mah Eneloop and 8 lumens at 26 hours, so you would probably need to use the 30 lumen mode. the H600 has medium modes at 56 lumens at 18 hours on a 2900mah Panasonic and 18 lumens at 50 hours. while you could get by on the 18 lumen mode, i get the feeling you would find yourself toggling up to the 56 lumen mode often. that's what i always find myself doing with my H60 which has modes at 15 and 45 lumens. i start on the 15, tell myself to stay on the 15, but i always go up to the 45. when i used a PT Eos, i would just start with the 30 lumen medium mode and stay there. so, if you're like me, you're basically looking at about 12 hours of 30 lumens for a H51 and a Eneloop XX vs. 18 hours of 56 lumens for a H600. my unprotected 2600mah Tenergy 18650's weigh 46g. my regular Eneloop AA weigh 26 grams. so assuming that the 18650's you're looking at and Eneloop XX weigh close to the same respectively as my batteries, you're looking at roughly the same weight to effective runtime ratio for the two setups on the modes you're likely to use the most for hiking.

let's assume that you'll get at least 6 hours of sleep every night. that includes camp setup, take down, and eating. a typical summer night on the PCT has about 9-10 hours of darkness, maybe less depending on what you qualify as darkness. in the Sierra's in mid July, you can probably hike without a light until about 8:30 pm and start hiking with out a light around 5:30 am. so even if you really push it, the most you could really do is 3-4 hours of night hiking per night. so one Eneloop XX would last you 3-4 days. if you wanted to be adventurous, you could probably just take 4 Eneloop XX, 1 4 channel charger, and a 4 pack of lithium AA for backup. or, if you can find out whether Energizer lithiums are available on your resupply stops, you could eschew the Eneloops and charger altogether, and take an 8 pack of lithium AA batteries to start and restock at each stop. lithium AA run longer than Eneloops, would save you the weight of the charger and about 5g per battery, and also alleviate any cold temp performance worries.

I'd go with AA NiMH because you can get them anywhere, safer to run them down, multiple devices. Either bring spares or get Cottonpicker's solar charger.

cfrey.0 said:

.... Is there anyway to work in back-up for the phone while on trail, or is that just SOL?

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reppans said:

I have an iGo PowerXtender to charge my iPhone from 2 AAs.

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There are other ways as well.

My suggestions:

1 Use 1500 cycle "standard capacity" (2000mAh) eneloops in preference to the eneloop XXs. You will lose a bit of capacity, but it sounds like your batteries will need to stand up to some abuse, and the 1500 cycle eneloops are considered to be much more robust over the long term than the XX (that extra capacity comes at a cost).

2 Take a Photon Freedom Micro as your back up light. If you want longer run times a yellow or red led version running on 1xCR2032 battery gives longer run time than the white led version on 1x2016. The latest white versions are pretty bright on Hi, but the light level drops quite quickly at first.

3 Enjoy your hike

I concur with a lot of people who have pointed out that you are talking about an awful lot of pretty heavy technology just to provide light when you are attempting a long hike with an ultralight load. Most thru hikers I have known plan their visits to "civilization" to pick up supplies. They are either picking up things they know will be there or stuff they have mailed to themselves ahead of time. I haven't known many to spend the hours needed to "use" the power grid to recharge batteries. So I have three suggestions:

1. The Photon Freedom is an excellent backup light. I'd go for the 2x2016 white model (but that's just me) and I'd tape two backup batteries together and place them in a deep pocket where they won't get lost.

2. An AA headlamp as the primary (Zebralight) makes the most sense. Carry 4 Lithium AA batteries and keep track of your burn rate. Plan on picking up more of these at each stop in "civilization" and dispose of the dead ones. You'll be surprised how long these last if you are prudent.

3. I think that the plan to hike before dawn and after dusk is penny wise and pound foolish. If you think that you really need that extra time to make the planned distance, you are pushing yourself too hard. Hiking when it is too dark to see without a flashlight is not worth the safety risk IMHO. I would only do that if it were absolutely necessary. Besides, without the necessity to stop and charge batteries, you'll have all of that time back

Enjoy this hike. It sounds like a blast.

you should look up pak-lite... at least consider one as a backup

they snap on top of a 9volt and run for-ever on low beam.

I think andrewnewman raises a very valid issue with 3. I have been on driving trips where we were constantly pushing ourselves to make the planned distances to keep to our schedule. It took a while, but eventually we realized we weren't enjoying ourselves as our holiday had become like work. So we changed our plans, relaxed, stopped pushing and started enjoying ourselves instead. Sometimes what seems like a good idea in the planning stages turns out to be more like a chore when you actually do it. Of course if you have done similar hikes in the past and that is the format/style you enjoy then go for it with my blessing .....

If you use a Pak-Lite (as a back-up) then get a high capacity lithium primary 9v battery for it (they last longer and lighter than carbon/zinc or alkalines).

cfrey.0 i wish to you the best hike ever you doing but so i am an hiker and i recommend to you an other one light for buckup, if you dont want nothing at the extrem limit you can take so another H600 for nly 39Gr. in more but ona great security for your safety!

So ... as a new member to this forum ... holy cow! I worked through the weekend and just sat down to check the responses to my question. Not only did I get response, I got solid and sensible advice. Thank you all very much. I am really glad I joined this group.

You have all helped clear my head.

I will not be going with the H600 or 18650's ... at least not for these purposes. I think I fell in love with wanting it to work ... a magic bullet power cell that would deliver great extended power without too much added weight (even if they occasionally blew-up) ... but the weight of the 18650 cells plus complexity and potential failure points of the charging system just don't add up to being a sensible option. I think I was in "La-La" land on this one, and you helped steer me clear.


I needed to hear this sage advice from sensible souls.

Thanks to you guys and gals I am going to confidently and happily go with my original purchase of the H51, and will use L91 primaries. Weight, flexibility and sensibility prevail. (I actually finally opened the H51 box that has been sitting on my desk for two weeks this evening, and love it so far!)

For the iphone I am going to take reppan's advice and use something like the "i-go" extender that will run off the same primaries.

I am also going to carry my photon as my back-up light just in case ... which again was really good advice. That Pak-Lite is simple-smart cool, but I already own the photon.

As to magic bullet power ... I guess I'll have to hope the "PowerTrekk" or "BioLite Stove" revolutionize the market while I'm out on the trail.

Thanks again to everyone. I'm really excited to be a new member here.