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McGizmo Ergonomics set the standard

precisionworks

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I never realized how great the ergonomics are on the Haiku/Sundrop/PD-S until working on a similar sized titanium light (SWM V10R). The V10R felt terrible in my hand & that caused me to analyze the McG design. My conclusion is:

Tail shroud design that flares out slightly. This makes extraction from a pocket easy, even with a super tight pocket clip. It also gives the gripping hand a "back stop" (for lack of a better term).

Reduced body tube diameter between head & tail. Lights that don't have this are much more difficult (for me) to grip.

Design of grooves. The spacing & height of the grooves is ideal for a good grip without being knurled or roughened.

Taking all that into account I McGizmo-ized the V10R by turning away half the grooves:

4ecc46ed.jpg


The difference in feel is night & day. Most of us take for granted the superb ergonomics of Don's lights - I certainly did. There's no doubt in my mind that the Haiku/Sundrop/PD-S has the best feel of any light on the market.

Thank you Don for a superb series of lights.
 

persco

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That looks awesome. The SWM V10R Ti was my first Ti light and I was very impressed by it. Until I purchased a McGizmo. You're right about the ergonomics. The design is pretty close to perfect. I'm so impressed with the McGizmos.

But, that SWM mod is really cool. It now almost looks like an older model McG.
 

fyrstormer

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I had a few complaints about the SWM V10R: I didn't like the choice of using a sharp-edged snap-on clip vs. letting a heavy chunk of titanium rattle around in the bottom of my pocket. I don't recall it being particularly hard to hold onto, due to the raw-machined surface, but your wider-spaced grooves and custom-fit McGizmo clip look like they do a fine job of alleviating both problems. There's still the matter of the brightness control ring that doesn't have a ball-bearing pressing against the underside to keep it from rotating freely, though, and the ring itself needs to stick out a little bit to make it easier to find. Also, I don't like the feel of the switch; it's noisy and the stock switch boot was too thin. Perhaps the switch problems are addressed with the addition of a metal switch cover, but I don't think there's any way to fix the control ring.

I don't know if you've had the opportunity to use a Jetbeam TC-R2, but its design is far superior to the SWM V10R in my opinion. I did a comparison at one point back when I owned both, but I haven't gone back to see if it survived the Great Server Crash of 2011. Anyway, the TC-R2 has a bit of tailcap-flare, the large diamond crosshatching is much easier to hold onto, and the control ring is a bit wider than the rest of the body to make it easy to locate without having to inspect the surface texture by touch first. (with the SWM I was constantly trying to rotate the non-movable parts of the head, for some reason.)

In any event, yes, McGizmo ergonomics are second-to-none. I suppose that's why the TC-R2 borrowed so many design cues. :devil: I'd feel bad about it if I didn't already own more than a dozen Gizmos.
 
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nbp

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+1 on all that Barry, Don makes some wonderful-to hold-lights. That was one of the biggest aspects of my Haiku review-the overall shape, design, and ergos of the light. It just feels right in the hand. They are nice to look at, but even more so a pleasure to carry and use.
 

fyrstormer

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No kidding. I think it looks even better on the LS20; the angles are very slightly different and that makes a big difference. But under any circumstances it's helpful to see if the light is still on. Fortunately, the TC-R2 can use the "mini blunt" crenelated bezel for the RRT-0, so at least its bezel doesn't have to be perfectly smooth like SWM lights' bezels are.
 

precisionworks

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the TC-R2 can use the "mini blunt" crenelated bezel for the RRT-0, so at least its bezel doesn't have to be perfectly smooth like SWM lights' bezels are.

I've just started machining SWM bezels, trying hard to make them look "right". Even with a Haiku in hand I cannot make a SWM look like the Haiku. Probably something to do with overall proportions. Maybe it's because Don is a designer who's at the top of his game.

First attempt below left, Haiku in the middle, second attempt below right.
34c4b467.jpg


The first one started off square at the outside edge & I wasn't wild about that so an outside taper was machined. Got the angle wrong & made the taper way too long & ended up shortening the front edge. The second one came out lots better but still not nearly as nice as the Haiku. The end mill I used (1/8") is smaller than the one used on the Haiku & the visual difference is huge. The learning curve on bezel work is steep :(
 
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fyrstormer

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The inner taper needs to lean outwards (for lack of a better way to describe it) more than the outer taper leans inwards. The starting depth of the inner taper may also be deeper than the starting depth of the outer taper, but I'd have to bust out my caliper to be sure. There's something about the way that's done on McGizmos, especially on the LS20, that I can easily lose track of time admiring. It's funny how much details can matter.

Also, your crenelations need to be wider, but not necessarily deeper. Looking at the bezels you've made, you could probably go somewhere between 1.5x-2x as wide as they currently are, as long as the cuts are no wider than the flats.

In any event, no, it will never look like a Haiku. There's no way to get the exact same appearance without retooling the entire head to look the same, including the exposed outer seal, and of course it would be inappropriate to copy the Haiku's design to such a degree. I think the two suggestions I made are still within the realm of good taste, but obviously its your judgement that matters since you're the one doing the work.
 
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precisionworks

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it would be inappropriate to copy the Haiku's design
+1

I'm trying to develop my own design by using the Haiku bezel for guidance. You are certainly right about the wider crenelations. Here's another variation, this time using a 3mm tool for the fist six slots & then a 2mm tool for the last six:

4360523d.jpg
 

fyrstormer

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Something I don't think I've ever seen before is crenelation that resembles a sinewave, with curved peaks and troughs but no flats vs. a flat bezel with notches cut into it. I'm not sure how it would look in real life, but it looks interesting in my mind. It would also eliminate sharp edges that can cut pocket linings.
 

precisionworks

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Something I don't think I've ever seen before is crenelation that resembles a sinewave, with curved peaks and troughs but no flats vs. a flat bezel with notches cut into it. I'm not sure how it would look in real life, but it looks interesting in my mind. It would also eliminate sharp edges that can cut pocket linings.
That would be really cool. I don't think the tool path could be controlled on a manual mill but it wouldn't be a stretch on a CNC machine with 4-axis movement. Draw one up & I'll find a shop that can cut it :)
 

pjandyho

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Something I don't think I've ever seen before is crenelation that resembles a sinewave, with curved peaks and troughs but no flats vs. a flat bezel with notches cut into it. I'm not sure how it would look in real life, but it looks interesting in my mind. It would also eliminate sharp edges that can cut pocket linings.
I think the closest I could think of would be the crenelated bezel of HDS lights. Practical in allowing user to see if the light is on when placed head-down, and so smooth it doesn't even scratch on anything.
 

js

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McGizmo Ergonics really DO set the standard! No question! I spent a LOT of time in this in my LS20 Review because it's a factor that easily goes unnoticed and unappreciated by people who have not felt the difference (or rather, not felt the goodness of the McGizmo's). Although, I suppose it can also go unnoticed if you're one of those incredibly blessed people who have only ever experienced McGizmo lights! LOL! I'm not one of them. So I was freaking blown away with how great my LS20 ergonomics were when I first got it. And, of course, McGizmo's LOOK great too!
 

precisionworks

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McGizmo Ergonics really DO set the standard! No question! I spent a LOT of time in this in my LS20 Review because it's a factor that easily goes unnoticed and unappreciated by people who have not felt the difference (or rather, not felt the goodness of the McGizmo's). Although, I suppose it can also go unnoticed if you're one of those incredibly blessed people who have only ever experienced McGizmo lights! LOL! I'm not one of them. So I was freaking blown away with how great my LS20 ergonomics were when I first got it. And, of course, McGizmo's LOOK great too!
+1 JS

My first nice light was a Surefire received as a gift. I was hesitant to even put it in my pocket :)

Then more SF's, a NovaTac, a NiteCore, etc. Kept on seeing references to a thing called McGizmo & thought one might be nice. My reaction was exactly like yours - could not believe how it fit my hand, almost like a custom made knife.

One part of the ergo that's easy to overlook is the tail swell. Nothing comes out of a pocket better than a McG, even when the pocket clip is bear trap strong. Most lights have no gripping area at the extraction point. Which is one reason that there are so many aftermarket flared tails.
 

fyrstormer

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It's somewhat amusing to see you two going on about the flared tail, because occasionally someone chimes in that it's really irritating to have to reach around the wide flared tailcap to press the switch. My suggestions to hold the light closer to the tail to give their a thumb a better angle of attack are always dismissed as ridiculous.
 

nbp

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I love the flared tail. The Clicky Pak as a whole takes up a sizable portion of my Haiku review as well. Who knew that genius design was hiding in a chunk of Ti bar stock all this time? Good thing Don found it.
 

DTF

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New to the forum. Purchased a McGizmo HiCri Mule for photography and it is proving a well worthwhile purchase. In regard to the ergonomics, what I like is that it is completely smooth to the touch. Plus, the Ti metal quickly warms to the touch such that it is entirely possible to keep holding it in my bare hand. An aluminum flashlight feels cold and never really warms up to the touch. May be a small thing to others, but to me this is a huge deal. I often have to hold onto the flashlight for and hour or longer. Now have a SunDrop on the way.
 

precisionworks

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Now have a SunDrop on the way.
Excellent companion for the Mule. I carry both a SunDrop & a PD-S side-by-side in my work clothing. Both are identical in the tail shroud section, both pull up & out as they should (not easily because of the pocket clip but you can adjust that to your liking). My SunDrop is often used for macro photography & does a great job.
 

js

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Yeah, Titanium does have a "warmth" to it. It's subtle, but it's definitely noticeable. It is, to my mind, simply the best flashlight body material there is, all things considered.
 
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