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Thread: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

  1. #1
    Enlightened mandat's Avatar
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    Default Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Hello,

    I am new to this community and have already made my way through the 6 page ChipZero-affair. A frustrating matter indeed.

    Back to the question:

    I am looking for a flashlight or - if it has to be - a battery rear light for bikes - that emits a - what i can only call - a true red of 640nm or more - the higher the better.

    I have been looking all over the place for days (google, youtube, contacted manufacturers), but so far without luck. Maybe the only solution will be a custom flashlight. Any advice would be much appreciated.

    Best regards,
    Mat

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    *Flashaholic* Flying Turtle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    The Photon Proton Pro has a red 3mm LED, along with a white Cree. I can't tell you what wavelength it is, but I'll bet that info is somewhere here at CPF.

    Welcome to CPF, Mat.

    Geoff

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Rigel Systems is the only company I know of that uses/sells LEDs in that range.

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Yup, Rigel, they use 660nm reds, plus they have a proper dimming system - remember that in order for proper night vision red to work, it has to be so dim that it doesn't look red.

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    Enlightened mandat's Avatar
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    Broke Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Seriously, those Rigel lights look ugly as hell - but at this point I take what i can get.

    Thanks guys!

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    I have to ask - why " deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)" ? What is your application that is so specific ?

    If it is a light to use to while maintaining night adapted eyesight there are several threads covering this, and IIRC red (even a proper "deep red") isn't always the best solution, depending on what you are looking at.
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    Enlightened mandat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    The main reason is simply my love for this color - and my detest for that standard orangey red of 620 nm. If red, then a real red of 640 nm and above, and if blue, then not that greenish blue of 470 nm but a proper royal blue of 455 nm.

    But of course, I am also thinking about night vision and I read that only a deep red can really maintain night adapted eyesight. So what you mentioned sounds very interesting to me and I am going to take a look at those threads.

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    I hear you about that great ruby-red tint! My favorite deep red LEDs are those used in the Surefire A2-HA-RD (model with red secondaries). The incan version of the A2 is discontinued but you can still find them on ebay and in the CPF Marketplace. Also Calipsoli makes a custom deep-red A2 secondary LED ring that you can use to retrofit an A2 that originally came in another color, look for his sales thread in the B/S/T custom lights subforum.

    The Proton Photon Pro is pretty red, but not quite as deep of a hue as the red A2.
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    Enlightened mandat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Are you really sure that Surefire does or did use deep red leds? That would be very interesting. Well, a more solid flashlight like the A2 would be nice - but being able to fully dim the light is key for me. A fitting for a fully dimmable and at best focusable, or completely unfocused powerful floodlight would be very interesting though. But this would very likely boil down to a fully custom work. Who would be up for that? Any recommendations?

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Quote Originally Posted by mandat View Post
    Who would be up for that? Any recommendations?
    There's plenty of custom builders that could help you out, but be aware that you're talking about taking a ~$100 light and doing ~$100 worth of mods/labor/shipping to it; the Rigel is $30..

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    Enlightened mandat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Well, they won`t do it for free, so much is certain. ;-) I am sure that i am going to be quite happy with the Rigel for for what it is worth. The custom thing is an idea I would have to talk to someone about in greater detail.

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Quote Originally Posted by mandat View Post
    The custom thing is an idea I would have to talk to someone about in greater detail.
    A simple emitter swap on a Sunwayman V series is what comes to mind, since it is infinitely variable and actually dims low enough for night vision purposes; but this would still be several times more expensive than the Rigel..

    If you want to forego night vision and just want a specific red at normal output levels, you could probably get a Peak installed with an LED you mail to them. I'd wager you could do that in the ~$50 range, not counting shipping..

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    Flashaholic* hank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Look carefully -- the almost-clone near-copies are lookalikes without the right LEDs and without the regulation.

    http://www.rigelsys.com/ is the real source.

    There's some good history here: http://www.company7.com/rigel/index.html

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Turtle View Post
    The Photon Proton Pro has a red 3mm LED, along with a white Cree. I can't tell you what wavelength it is, but I'll bet that info is somewhere here at CPF.
    Or better still, on the manufacturer's website (laughingrabbitinc.com) : Blue(470 nm), Red(630 nm), Green(525 nm), Night Vision Green(495 nm)


    So nowhere near the "deep red" that Mat is looking for. However a google search on "red led 660nm 5mm" finds plenty of suppliers willing to sell 660nm leds, and I'm sure a search for other wavelengths will find more. I'd advise caution and careful checking of spec sheets or (even better) actual test results to find out what the real wavelength of the LED.

    If you find a promising 5mm LED the cheap way of checking it would be to put it in a fauxton (probably running on 1 x CR2032 so as not to overdrive it). If you like the results you could then put it in a Photon Freedom Micro (I suggest one with a covert nose) which will allow you to control the light output down to very low levels. It takes a bit of judicious bending and cutting of the leads, but if you copy the original LED leads you will be able to get it working (the leads just plug into sockets on the driver board, no soldering required).

    If you do this, please let us know how well it works out for you. I'm assuming you don't need the higher output of a "power LED" because you mentioned maintaining night adapted vision.
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    Enlightened mandat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    I'm assuming you don't need the higher output of a "power LED" because you mentioned maintaining night adapted vision.
    Well, I want it both actually. For one the power of a let us say one of my LedEngin 5 Watt 660nm Leds if need be / or a nice cluster of 5mm Leds, with the ability to comfortably, preferably by a metal thumb-wheel, start it off with the tiniest bit of light. Ideally this would be a solid and heavy EDC flashlight giving out unfocused floodlight - for this an embedded cluster right at the top might be best for that, i would guess. A massive revamp of the Rigel if you will. Now would that be interesting for anybody else too?

    The Sunwaymans looks interesting. I will take a closer look at their dimming mechanism.

    I will get in contact with Peak. Actually I recently started a thread in the modders/builders area of the forum but so far no answers.

    Regarding the Rigel copies someone mentioned this light in another thread as an alternative. Looks a bit better than the original. Couldnt find any valuable nm-info though.
    Last edited by mandat; 02-23-2012 at 11:54 AM.

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    Flashaholic* CarpentryHero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    I have a Sunwayman V10a XPG and love it.

    Red led aren't my specialty.
    Olight Crimson
    Zebralight Makes a few red led lights
    PALight.
    I don't know the nm on any of them
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    afraidofdark has mentioned it already, but if you end up purchasing an A2, I will make you a 660nm deep red ring if you'd like. Fully dimmable.

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    After years of trying to chase down the wavelengths of lights advertised as red I've come to the conclusion that not disclosing the wavelengths of their lights is probably a Marketing Decision.

    While some companies like Rigel or TekTite will disclose this information in an email, many would rather not. I think they have good reasons for this. If these companies disclosed the wavelengths of their lights it might be awkward having to explain over and over again that the lights they advertise as red aren't red at all. From their point of view a light 630nm is far more SELLABLE than one at 660nm.

    If all of the 630nm lights out there magically turned into 660nm lights overnight, I believe the vast majority of their owners would light them up once and then throw them away after seeing how very much harder they are to see with than 630nm.

    What we are fighting here are perceptions. It would seem that a great many users are convinced that they are using red light for maintaining dark adapted vision. The truth is that very few will actually be able to even find a decent light that is really red.
    Last edited by Sub_Umbra; 02-23-2012 at 02:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    True true, I use Lights with low lows to keep my night vision .04 of a lumen is what I use to navigate at 3 am when the baby cries.
    I'm glad I found CPF, I was beginning to think I was strange
    I'm a Canadian and a proud Flashaholic
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub_Umbra View Post
    After years of trying to chase down the wavelengths of lights advertised as red I've come to the conclusion that not disclosing the wavelengths of their lights is probably a Marketing Decision.

    While some companies like Rigel or TekTite will disclose this information in an email, many would rather not. I think they have good reasons for this. If these companies disclosed the wavelengths of their lights it might be awkward having to explain over and over again that the lights they advertise as red aren't red at all. From their point of view a light 630nm is far more SELLABLE than one at 660nm.

    If all of the 630nm lights out there magically turned into 660nm lights overnight, I believe the vast majority of their owners would light them up once and then throw them away after seeing how very much harder they are to see with than 630nm.

    What we are fighting here are perceptions. It would seem that a great many users are convinced that they are using red light for maintaining dark adapted vision. The truth is that very few will actually be able to even find a decent light that is really red.
    it would be really cool if we had a commonly available CPF resource where a reader curious about 660nm leds could look it right up and order one for 2 or 3 $... just a bare led would do the trick for me anyways.
    The brighter the light, the darker the shadow.

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    *Flashaholic* StarHalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Radio Shack sells "jumbo" 660nm red bare LEDs; they're too dim for anything other than locating (viewing directly as opposed to projecting a beam), but they're cheap and in the same place with all the other parts you'd need to put together something simple..

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    once you have seen a true red - you will never go back - in some way you might feel fooled by the companies, because in comparison the normal red won't appear red at all - it just feels impure, it feels diluted, just to be brighter

    if i could i would do a flashlight myself, but this is not my field of expertise - but i am willing to spend some money for a solid custom lamp with the features i described in a post above

    calipsoii, i went through your threads already - those are some cool things you do but it is not really what i am looking for - but it seems you have got enough customers already :-)
    Last edited by mandat; 02-24-2012 at 06:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Might be too large a form factor, but I'd talk to Nailbender on the custom modified bst section of this forum and get him to make you a P60 dropin with a Osram 660nm 3W Red LED
    And buy a Solarforce L2M
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    Enlightened mandat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    True true, I use Lights with low lows to keep my night vision .04 of a lumen is what I use to navigate at 3 am when the baby cries.
    CarpentryHero, what lights are those, that can go that low?

    Solarforce L2M
    well, i need a an actual dimming wheel of some kind - like the Sunwaymans StarHalo mentioned - actually they look better to me everyday - if only they`d give out actual floodlight - i will look for some beamshots - then, of course, there would be the question finding the right custom builder for that

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Quote Originally Posted by mandat View Post
    ...well, i need a an actual dimming wheel of some kind - like the Sunwaymans StarHalo mentioned - actually they look better to me everyday - if only they`d give out actual floodlight - i will look for some beamshots - then, of course, there would be the question finding the right custom builder for that
    One thing to consider is that when swapping emitters some modders may alter the throw or flood somewhat of the finished product by shaving or shimming the reflector (changing exactly where the LED sits in relation to the reflector)

    So, as you inquire about different modders be sure to ask if they have ever varied the depth of the LED in the reflector.

    Be sure to keep us up to date on this project.

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Thrunite Ti is a AAA light is affordable and the two modes are .04 and 60 lumens.
    HDS lights have a low low of .07 lumens
    Nitecore IFE2 has a low low of .07 lumens
    Sunwayman V10A XPG mine goes as low as the Thrunite
    Jetbeam RRT0 XML .06 lumens
    Zebralight SC600 is .1 lumens
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Quote Originally Posted by mandat View Post
    CarpentryHero, what lights are those, that can go that low?



    well, i need a an actual dimming wheel of some kind - like the Sunwaymans StarHalo mentioned - actually they look better to me everyday - if only they`d give out actual floodlight - i will look for some beamshots - then, of course, there would be the question finding the right custom builder for that
    Put a diffuser film on the lens, CPF marketplace dealers corner or wts area have diffuser film
    I'm glad I found CPF, I was beginning to think I was strange
    I'm a Canadian and a proud Flashaholic
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    led supply sells 660nm rebel on 20mm star,

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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpentryHero View Post
    Thrunite Ti is a AAA light is affordable and the two modes are .04 and 60 lumens.
    HDS lights have a low low of .07 lumens
    Nitecore IFE2 has a low low of .07 lumens
    Sunwayman V10A XPG mine goes as low as the Thrunite
    Jetbeam RRT0 XML .06 lumens
    Zebralight SC600 is .1 lumens
    The "Locator glow" of my PALights is much, much lower that the 0.2 lumens of my ZL SC60, and is only useable once my eyes have had several minutes of dark adaptation. The lowest setting of my white LED photon is a little lower than the PALight, and my NVG Photon running on 1xCR2032 mattery is lower again (I have to ramp it up slightly to use it for navigating around my house at night).

    One of my PALights has a much dimmer "Locator glow" than all the rest, and is way too low to use to see anything beyond finding it in the dark.
    Last edited by Gregozedobe; 02-24-2012 at 03:02 PM.
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: Looking for light with deep red led(s) (640nm-690nm)

    ANY colour can be used to preserve night vision - moonlight certainly isn't red.

    It's just that red is best when you need to use non-nightvision for seeing detail or colour, but want to have minimal impact on quick adaptation to nightvision.

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