Law enforcement duty belt, what do you carry?

[EnduringEagle]

I whole heartedly agree with you about fine motor skills. The problem is determining which motor skills and thought processes are most important. Try performing simple drills at the range such as moving and shooting with short burst of light. Then throw in reloads and clearing malfunctions. While using a soft press to momentarily turn on the flashlight, most people will inadvertently press too hard and activate constant on. Now their attention is directed to the function of the light and not on the threat. In a high stress situation something so simple can have dire consequences. If this happens during a reload or while clearing a malfunction, the officer is lit up so the bad guy knows what is happening.
Both arguments are valid and no one light will perform best in all scenarios. All I ask is that you train with your equipment and make sure it performs the way you expect it to.

+1 on this regarding training with your light. There are courses for just for working with lights and firearms. Shooting with a light is not the same as shooting with two hands on the grip. I use a Klarus xt11 and have an Olight m20x that I routinely train with.

[GF51]

Stinger LED DS and a Safariland RLS (since only the tac guys get weaponlights) on the belt, G2 in my bag. It really shocks me that some guys I work with still have original Stingers- I click on my DS and their light all but disappears.

[TEEJ]

Absolutely, it all comes down to what you are used to...to avoid screwing up under pressure.

There ARE stories of guys pressing too hard on a momentary switch if they are trained on a momentary that doesn't click on when pushed, and goes off when released (The dead man switch)....but the ones trained to click for on or off just as reflexively click the light off as naturally as the guys who let go to turn it off.

There are guys who train the twisty UI to the point where if you give them a NON-Twisty light, they might TRY to twist it off under pressure...as muscle memory takes over, etc.

It is natural for all the nerves to prime to operate large muscle groups when your adrenaline soars, so that fine motor skills decline to prime you for battle related large muscle action...and that easy twist may suddenly become impossible...as if your fingers were paralyzed. (Obviously, every one is different, but, it is a tendency)

So, you need to train with what will be in your hands when the situation you are training FOR arises. That means that you want the light you will have to be the one you're training with. Otherwise, you'll try to twist the clicky, and click the twisty, etc.

I have my own dyslexic hell, I shoot lefty even though I'm right handed, because my left eye is my master eye...so I'm reversed on a lot of tasks...adding to the fun.

[theamazingrando]

Hey Cap, what's the tailcap on your light? I recognize those Modoolar parts, but I must have missed that tailcap. I love the way it all comes together!

[Capt. Nemo]

Hey Cap, what's the tailcap on your light? I recognize those Modoolar parts, but I must have missed that tailcap. I love the way it all comes together!

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...94#post3803794

[Robotack]

Surefire 6P LED or Fenix T1.... I alternate

[spc smith]

Now i just thought about this. If i am correct, the Klarus XT11, if i may speak boldly, has all light powering buttons at the tail end of the light (making it easily accessable) with no recess to guard or protect from an accidental activation. in covert operations and traversing slow movements to gain a position, this could potentially give a well staked position away in the event of the light turning on. I now know why Olight did not change the side switch of the M20S to the newer prototype switch that was slightly more raised . Its recessed for a reason, but still there just the same without complication or after thought. Just strategically placed and recessed enough away from initial contact of hand. The back any light is considered a protrusion. with enough prolonged shock, movement or accidental falls or drops, it will turn on without the users consent. This cannot happen in "STEALTH MODE".

[tree7NE]

Currently I carry a Fenix TK60 in a ring, an issued Stinger on my belt, and an Olight M20 in my cargo pocket. I'd love to ditch the Stinger, but I haven't been able to find a good holster for the Olight. I tried using the supplied holster, but it just doesn't seem to hold the light securely enough.

[luvbelly]

Now i just thought about this. If i am correct, the Klarus XT11, if i may speak boldly, has all light powering buttons at the tail end of the light (making it easily accessable) with no recess to guard or protect from an accidental activation. in covert operations and traversing slow movements to gain a position, this could potentially give a well staked position away in the event of the light turning on. I now know why Olight did not change the side switch of the M20S to the newer prototype switch that was slightly more raised . Its recessed for a reason, but still there just the same without complication or after thought. Just strategically placed and recessed enough away from initial contact of hand. The back any light is considered a protrusion. with enough prolonged shock, movement or accidental falls or drops, it will turn on without the users consent. This cannot happen in "STEALTH MODE".

You are correct. The main switch on the XT is a larger round tail button which protrudes beyond the lanyard attachment points. When I pressed the tail of my XT on a flat surface and applied pressure the light did come on in momentary mode. The secondary mode/instant strobe button is smaller and sits within the protected area of the tail cap. For someone who is involved with a more military/tactical type of employment this could be a major design flaw. Since tactical situations are possible but rare for me it not as large an issue. I actually like that I can operate the XT with gloves on (northern climate). I conceed however buttons easily hit can easily be hit accidentally. A trade off I am willing to make but others may not have that luxury.

[ToNIX]

Malkoff MD2 with M61W, high/low ring, running on 18650.

Quark AA Tactical running on 14500 clipped on my right shoulder.

[lightfooted]

Currently I carry a Fenix TK60 in a ring, an issued Stinger on my belt, and an Olight M20 in my cargo pocket. I'd love to ditch the Stinger, but I haven't been able to find a good holster for the Olight. I tried using the supplied holster, but it just doesn't seem to hold the light securely enough.

The Surefire V70 holster will hold the Olight...although only with the bezel up and without the cigar ring.

I carry my Surefire C2 in the V70 normally though and the Olight M21 is in it's nylon holster that has been modified with a snap instead of the original velcro. The C2 is modded with a 3-6v XM-L emitter and a 17670.

[spc smith]

Luvbelly,

I too concede to the fact of the M20X not being the perfect light. No light is, and creating one is near impossible in light of what ALL user's apply it for. But staying on point, being able to use gloved hands with the XT10-10 is a plus. It's near impossible without positioning the pocket clip in alignment with the side switch to attain this with the M20X. All other heresay aside, it fits the bill quite well. If someone ACTUALLY has both the XT11 and M20X side by side, please do make a comparison and full detailed or short review. If you look at Marshall's review at goinggear of the M20X,M21X, both lights are almost the same in brightness. I just wonder if the Klarus XT11 is that much more noticeably brighter as what i saw with the M21X at 600 lumens compared to the M20X. Only difference was a little more throw and wider spill.

[EnduringEagle]

I have both the xt11, xt10 and Olight m20x. I also have the Klarus xt1c as well. For an overall light I like the Olight the best. You have to work to find the strobe switch on the side. It is not as tactile or easily found as you might think. I handle the problem by lining up the clip with the button and grab the light so that the clip is always in the same place thus the button is always in the same place. Btw, you will also have the same problem with the Klarus if the light is upside down you can't hit the strobe button. For search I actually like the xt10 better. It has better throw/narrower beam for 2 second rule use. Light, move, off. Light, move, off. Etc.. It will light you up less than the XML LEDs. That being said I think the Klarus line is excellent and they work really well. The Olight is also really good and is on my edc bag. Having said that I recommend the Klarus for duty work and your backup light also be a Klarus with the same tail switch. One method, one set of lights.

[tree7NE]

The Surefire V70 holster will hold the Olight...although only with the bezel up and without the cigar ring.

I carry my Surefire C2 in the V70 normally though and the Olight M21 is in it's nylon holster that has been modified with a snap instead of the original velcro. The C2 is modded with a 3-6v XM-L emitter and a 17670.

Thanks for the info about the V70. I'd been wondering about that but have not yet had the opportunity to test one for fit. I'm also curious if any Maxpedition light shealths will work well with the Olight. I think on my next day off I'll have to make a note to bring my light to the local gunshop and try it with some of the gear there. I also really like the idea of adding a stap to the holster supplied by Olight. Might have to look into that.

[luvbelly]

spc smith....There are probably no lights out there that anyone would present as a perfect light for everyone in every situation. I think that's why we end up collecting these things. Having a nice collection is kind of like having a full tool box. You might be able to get the job done with a leatherman but it might not get done as well or as easy. As others have stated, the best light is the one you have with you when you need it. I am enjoying finding out what other folks are carrying on their duty belts. It's info that may help me find yet the next addition to my duty belt. One light a month though (I made a promise).

[luvbelly]

I have both the xt11, xt10 and Olight m20x. I also have the Klarus xt1c as well. For an overall light I like the Olight the best. You have to work to find the strobe switch on the side. It is not as tactile or easily found as you might think. I handle the problem by lining up the clip with the button and grab the light so that the clip is always in the same place thus the button is always in the same place. Btw, you will also have the same problem with the Klarus if the light is upside down you can't hit the strobe button. For search I actually like the xt10 better. It has better throw/narrower beam for 2 second rule use. Light, move, off. Light, move, off. Etc.. It will light you up less than the XML LEDs. That being said I think the Klarus line is excellent and they work really well. The Olight is also really good and is on my edc bag. Having said that I recommend the Klarus for duty work and your backup light also be a Klarus with the same tail switch. One method, one set of lights.

Just wondering if you could clarify one point for me. You state that for an overall light you like the Olight best but end by recommending the Klarus for duty work. Since you have both, why wouldn't you recommend the light you like the best for duty work? Is it the light output/beam pattern you prefer on the Olight but recommend the Klarus because of the U.I.? Thanks for the input and quick comparison by the way.

[spc smith]

luvbelly,

false information is pretentious to me. what we read and what we all actually have or use off the record on CPF are two totally different subjects. Im not a sugar coater and i will tell it or propose to what i actually think a flashlight is or should be. If i happen to have a good or bad experience with a product i own, illgladly state the facts with a slight twist of my opinion, but never falsified info. Neither will i put down someone elses light to hype up my own. Bt i will always suggest the best of what i currently have and use. Ive seen alot of people say the olight M20X is a step down from its earlier predecessor the M20S, saying it only maintained 5 min on hi of 500 lumens then dropping in brightness back to 300. Ive cleared that up several different times. people will believe what they read though.

[Lodogg2221]

Well, Im in the dark ages, and hoping SF gets off its rear and releases the Lawman very soon. If not, Ive been looking at the Thunite Scorpion.
Until it then, I carry a Surefire 8AX on my belt, a LX2 in my pocket, and have in my bag in the car an M3, G2X tactical, and a Quark 123X2 tactical.

And yes, I like single mode lights best for a main light.
If Im searching a vehcile, Ill get a better light.

Someone mentioned fine motor skill earlier, and regardless of what others think, its not something training can fix. Under stress you lose the ability to do tasks that require fine coordination.
Its why we are all (or better be anyway) trained to NOT use the slide release when reloading. Under real stress, you wont be able to hit it quickly.
Yes, you can do it, but I know from experience that when under stress no matter how much you train, your body just doesnt cooperate with the fine motor stuff.

Example...I used to have only one handgun. Glock 22. First dept I was on also used G22s. I had trained since day one to use the slide release when I reloaded, etc.
One day, when I needed to reload under stress, I fumbled with that slide release for what seemed like an eternity before the gun FINALLY went into battery. I had been using the slide release on that exact gun for over 12 years at that point! Yes, Id say it was ingrained to muscle memory, but that didnt help one bit that day....
Now I NEVER use the slide release except to keep the slide back with no mag.
And its the same reason that whatever light is on my belt will come on on high every single time, no matter how many times I press the button...because that happens too under stress....

[JAS]

.....Duty light is a new Streamlight SL-20L.....

I didn't even know about the Streamlight SL-20L. Now I have to go look for reviews. How do you like it? I wonder how it would compare to say a Streamlight SL-20X with the TerraLUX MiniStar 110S or TLE-110S MM?

It looks like the MiniStar 110S-MM Approximate run-times: 6+ hours on medium (300 lumens). However, the Streamlight SL-20L is only 2 hours with 350 lumens. Does that mean one is truly that much more efficient than the other or is someone fudging the numbers?

[luvbelly]

spc smith,

Just to be clear the leatherman statement was not directed to your choice of the Olight or any light for that matter. It was to suggest that even an all purpose light, if one existed, could never be the perfect light in all situations. Specialty tools, or lights in this discussion, can be much more effective and useful for a specific task and user. If you took my statement as a put down to your choice or opinion I apologize. I started this thread to find out what other LEOs were using and their opinions of those lights. It is an opportunity to learn not to argue or put down opinions or impressions. My question to EnduringEagle is only to inquire what he likes about the Olight and why he recommends the Klarus. I want to understand his point, not argue it or put it down. If you were getting the wrong idea I hope this clears things up a bit.

[luvbelly]

Well, Im in the dark ages, and hoping SF gets off its rear and releases the Lawman very soon. If not, Ive been looking at the Thunite Scorpion.
Until it then, I carry a Surefire 8AX on my belt, a LX2 in my pocket, and have in my bag in the car an M3, G2X tactical, and a Quark 123X2 tactical.

And yes, I like single mode lights best for a main light.
If Im searching a vehcile, Ill get a better light.

Someone mentioned fine motor skill earlier, and regardless of what others think, its not something training can fix. Under stress you lose the ability to do tasks that require fine coordination.
Its why we are all (or better be anyway) trained to NOT use the slide release when reloading. Under real stress, you wont be able to hit it quickly.
Yes, you can do it, but I know from experience that when under stress no matter how much you train, your body just doesnt cooperate with the fine motor stuff.

Example...I used to have only one handgun. Glock 22. First dept I was on also used G22s. I had trained since day one to use the slide release when I reloaded, etc.
One day, when I needed to reload under stress, I fumbled with that slide release for what seemed like an eternity before the gun FINALLY went into battery. I had been using the slide release on that exact gun for over 12 years at that point! Yes, Id say it was ingrained to muscle memory, but that didnt help one bit that day....
Now I NEVER use the slide release except to keep the slide back with no mag.
And its the same reason that whatever light is on my belt will come on on high every single time, no matter how many times I press the button...because that happens too under stress....

Simple is better when under stress is definitely a defendable position, one that I happen to share. Your illustration is perfect, thanks.

[flashlight nut]

Well, Im in the dark ages, and hoping SF gets off its rear and releases the Lawman very soon. If not, Ive been looking at the Thunite Scorpion.
Until it then, I carry a Surefire 8AX on my belt, a LX2 in my pocket, and have in my bag in the car an M3, G2X tactical, and a Quark 123X2 tactical.

And yes, I like single mode lights best for a main light.
If Im searching a vehcile, Ill get a better light.

Someone mentioned fine motor skill earlier, and regardless of what others think, its not something training can fix. Under stress you lose the ability to do tasks that require fine coordination.
Its why we are all (or better be anyway) trained to NOT use the slide release when reloading. Under real stress, you wont be able to hit it quickly.
Yes, you can do it, but I know from experience that when under stress no matter how much you train, your body just doesnt cooperate with the fine motor stuff.

Example...I used to have only one handgun. Glock 22. First dept I was on also used G22s. I had trained since day one to use the slide release when I reloaded, etc.
One day, when I needed to reload under stress, I fumbled with that slide release for what seemed like an eternity before the gun FINALLY went into battery. I had been using the slide release on that exact gun for over 12 years at that point! Yes, Id say it was ingrained to muscle memory, but that didnt help one bit that day....
Now I NEVER use the slide release except to keep the slide back with no mag.
And its the same reason that whatever light is on my belt will come on on high every single time, no matter how many times I press the button...because that happens too under stress....

Well put. My strong feelings for momentary only switches are based on my own experience also. Fortunately I learned my lesson in training and not in an actual shoot out. I too had a forward clicky and thought it was the best of both worlds. When I started doing drills in a low light course I was shocked at myself how many times my light clicked on or not clicked off when it was not supposed to be on, such as moving between cover, reloads and clearing malfunctions. The instructor of the course made sure we had plenty of "unanticipated" problems.
It was an eye opener for me.
I don't tell people what they carry is wrong, I only point out strengths and weaknesses and stress training honestly with your equipment. As others have pointed out and I have also learned, no one light will perform perfectly in all situations.

[luvbelly]

Lodogg2221,

I have been looking at the Scorpion for a while now. Wondering if you could offer some impressions of the light and the control ring on the tail? I am curious about one handed operation, switching modes accidentally,and knowing what mode your activating your light in.

[eyeeatingfish]

I used to carry a Lumapower MRV. Great light, good size, now the dual switch is a good option. Now I carry a peak LED SR450. It has a big head and I still need to find a good holster but it is a good light and fits on my belt even despite the 2.75 inch head diameter.

[Lodogg2221]

Lodogg2221,

I have been looking at the Scorpion for a while now. Wondering if you could offer some impressions of the light and the control ring on the tail? I am curious about one handed operation, switching modes accidentally,and knowing what mode your activating your light in.

I would if I had one....I almost bought one, but then SF announced the 700 lumen Lawman, and I know it was just about to hit the market before the LED upgrade, so it should be along soon.
Trouble is, even buying a couple good 18650s and a charger, its about double what you can get a Scorpion for.
And as I said, Ill probably get that one if the Lawman doesnt appear in the next couple months.
Anyway, if I get one, Ill be happy to report on it, but from what Ive read, the light is at whatever setting you put it on, until you change it.
That was one thing I really liked about it. Had a Maelstrom before, but the tailcap switch, the rubber portion stuck out about twice as far as my Surefires, and I didnt care for it. Light worked great though. Kinda wish Id have kept it....

[shane45_1911]

Its why we are all (or better be anyway) trained to NOT use the slide release when reloading. Under real stress, you wont be able to hit it quickly.
Yes, you can do it, but I know from experience that when under stress no matter how much you train, your body just doesnt cooperate with the fine motor stuff.

Don't start that off-topic crap here. Hitting the slide release is no more of a fine motor skill than taking a safety off (for those non-Glock users) or even pressing the damn trigger. The slide release is THE QUICKEST way to get your pistol back in service after slide lock. Drop the old mag, insert new one - and just LOOK where your support thumb happens to be - RIGHT BY THE SLIDE RELEASE. Use it. It is far faster than reaching back up and over the pistol to release the slide by slingshot.

I have been in LE for over 25 years as a SWAT leader, and a force-on-force instructor. I am an IDPA master, as well as a certified NRA firearms instructor. I have tought small arms techniques throughout North America and have done a lot of contract work with LE agencies in Europe.

And muscle memory and repetition absolutely supercedes "fine motor skills" any day of the week. If it doesn't, you aren't practicing enough. You will fight like you train. Period.

[shane45_1911]

Your illustration is perfect, thanks.

No, it is outdated and flawed.

[TEEJ]

Don't start that off-topic crap here. Hitting the slide release is no more of a fine motor skill than taking a safety off (for those non-Glock users) or even pressing the damn trigger. The slide release is THE QUICKEST way to get your pistol back in service after slide lock. Drop the old mag, insert new one - and just LOOK where your support thumb happens to be - RIGHT BY THE SLIDE RELEASE. Use it. It is far faster than reaching back up and over the pistol to release the slide by slingshot.

I have been in LE for over 25 years as a SWAT leader, and a force-on-force instructor. I am an IDPA master, as well as a certified NRA firearms instructor. I have tought small arms techniques throught North America and have done a lot of contract work with LE agencies in Europe.

And muscle memory and repetition absolutely supercedes "fine motor skills" any day of the week. if it doesn't, you aren't practicing enough. You will fight like you train. Period.

/\ /\ /\

THIS

[Lodogg2221]

Don't start that off-topic crap here. Hitting the slide release is no more of a fine motor skill than taking a safety off (for those non-Glock users) or even pressing the damn trigger. The slide release is THE QUICKEST way to get your pistol back in service after slide lock. Drop the old mag, insert new one - and just LOOK where your support thumb happens to be - RIGHT BY THE SLIDE RELEASE. Use it. It is far faster than reaching back up and over the pistol to release the slide by slingshot.

I have been in LE for over 25 years as a SWAT leader, and a force-on-force instructor. I am an IDPA master, as well as a certified NRA firearms instructor. I have tought small arms techniques throughout North America and have done a lot of contract work with LE agencies in Europe.

And muscle memory and repetition absolutely supercedes "fine motor skills" any day of the week. if it doesn't, you aren't practicing enough. You will fight like you train. Period.

Whatever floats your boat, but thats how we train now, and how our SWAT trains too....great that it works for you. It wont for a lot of people.
It was a simple comment, if you want to get way off topic about it and have a fit because someone disagrees with you fine, but I wont.

Back to the lights, and as evidenced above, get what works for you. I KNOW what works for me when I need it too. You should too.

[shane45_1911]

if you want to get way off topic about it and have a fit because someone disagrees with you fine.

No, I had a "fit" because your statements make it sound as though it is the ONLY way to do something. Your thinking - and most likely your training - is outdated.

But I fully agree to use whatever works best for YOU. And I also agree - back to the lights.