A reminder to never lend out lights...

[fyrstormer]

Next time tell him to give you $80 first as a fully refundable loaners fee first. And tell him if it returns with marks or damage you will be deducting an appropriate amount... If he gives you the light back in one piece there's no problem. Otherwise he just bought himself a broken $80 light

Taking a security deposit on loaning someone a flashlight. Just buy one made of titanium and never worry about it again. Mac's Tri-EDC is just as affordable as a few easier-to-break aluminum lights.

[aephilli]

good idea not to lend out our good lights but only spare ones. XXXFire, rayovac indestructible, ..
i like your contributions to cpf. always worth the reading.

Now I KNOW I need to stay in the "budget" forum, 2xAA Indestructable IS my "good" light.

[fyrstormer]

I normally have some keychain coin cell lights that I would lend. If someone really needs a light for something important they might get a Fenix E01. If it is that important I would actually offer to go help them with only me handling my better lights. Same principle as if someone needs to use one of (my UK legal) edc penknives or multi-tool. I will use it for them so they don't damage it, misuse it or cut themselves.

If someone cuts themselves using your pen knife improperly, they got what they had coming to them. Not seeing the problem with that scenario.

[Harry999]

fyrstormer,

I agree with you, sir! However, remember I am in the UK where there is enough fear of weapons. I am surprised people aren't legally banned from using knives and forks and forced to use sporks - plastic ones at that.


Even a simple tool such as say a Swiss Army Knife Solo Alox Pioneer 1 which is a non locking 2.5" bladed slip joint can frighten some people over here. If they cut themselves it would not be long before they would be moaning about it and I would have the reputation of someone who carries a weapon. Seems silly but those are the facts of it. I work in an office environment so it would not do my career progression any good to be considered a weapon carrying nut!

Edit: Actually I just realised people probably consider me to be a flashlight carrying nut. Not sure how good that is for the career...

[fyrstormer]

Is the UK really that obsessed with the possible criminal uses of everyday objects? Better not tell them what can be done with a cricket bat if they're worried about Swiss Army knives.

[NeonLights]

I enjoy helping people, whether that means giving away tools (IE knives, flashlights, multitools) or lending them to someone in need. I have friends and acquaintances who aren't the most responsible people in the world, but I still lend tools to them, but typically not the more expensive stuff. I don't buy cheaply built lights that are easily broken except for inexpensive beater lights/knives, so I'm not worried so much about my flashlights getting broken.

[Siliconti]

I agree that the OP was put up against a wall - what are you going to do when this guy is bad-mouthing you over a flashlight - keeping in mind the average person thinks a flashlight is $5 at WalMart? They are like "what is the issue?", when the OP is thinking "hey, this is an expensive, beloved flashlight".

I only told one person how much my M6 costs, and they still do not believe me to this day - the average person can not wrap their brains around it.

[mauiblue]

I work at a warehouse at night that doesn't have anything power/lights as it is being renovated. A couple times people that came to the site at night to look for something they forgot in the day. They would ask "Could I borrow your light?" Fortunately, I had my 2 cell Maglite with me. I would never lend my Surefire under any circumstances. I now use a Nitecore Tiny Monster as my primary light and as backup a Thrunite TN11. None will leave my possession still and I have a freebie coin battery key chain light from Lighthound I can lend anytime .

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

[Chrontius]

My dad once gave me a knife, and I only loaned it to someone at work once, with disclaimers and strongly worded warnings. I caught them using it as a screwdriver not ten seconds later. It was particularly egregious because I was also carrying a screwdriver at the time, and the edge is still not back where it was before that, even though I had it sharpened by Randall Knives.

[cummins4x4]

My theory, want to borrow a power tool, not likely, a knife, give them a box cutter, a firearm, not a chance in hell, a flashlight, sure, here is one of my loaners.

[jimbo@stn23]

Too many people now days want to explain why they won't help others out. Rather than let the worst people determine how we should act, it's better to follow the best among us when determining how to treat others.

I actually enjoy helping others solve their problems, you can help folks without lending out gear very often. Check back in after you've had some tools damaged 3 or 4 times, or lost and tell a story. If you still have the same point of view, hair on ya cause yer doing well and are a credit to man.

When you have to work as hard to help people that will not help themselves function in life as the OP did, there comes a point where they need to know that they are now on their own. Hats off to him for his incredible patientence.

[Richub]

My dad once gave me a knife, and I only loaned it to someone at work once, with disclaimers and strongly worded warnings. I caught them using it as a screwdriver not ten seconds later. It was particularly egregious because I was also carrying a screwdriver at the time, and the edge is still not back where it was before that, even though I had it sharpened by Randall Knives.

That's just so ridiculous, OMG.
I think I might have tried to use his head as a screwdriver if this had happened to me...

I actually enjoy helping others solve their problems, you can help folks without lending out gear very often. Check back in after you've had some tools damaged 3 or 4 times, or lost and tell a story. If you still have the same point of view, hair on ya cause yer doing well and are a credit to man.

When you have to work as hard to help people that will not help themselves function in life as the OP did, there comes a point where they need to know that they are now on their own. Hats off to him for his incredible patientence.

The first quote tells the story nicely about how some people treat tools or things they didn't pay for themselves.

It's not a question of not wanting to help people, but the fear of them damaging good gear that will keep people from handing out tools to others.

I always offer to help them myself instead of loaning tools to them, most of them 'get the message' and let me fix it.

[Harry999]

I always offer to help them myself instead of loaning tools to them, most of them 'get the message' and let me fix it.

+1 when it comes to your quality tools. I still keep loaner items on hand though because there are times when you are busy and can't help them yourself. I think the OP was in this situation.

[T45]

My dad once gave me a knife, and I only loaned it to someone at work once, with disclaimers and strongly worded warnings. I caught them using it as a screwdriver not ten seconds later. It was particularly egregious because I was also carrying a screwdriver at the time, and the edge is still not back where it was before that, even though I had it sharpened by Randall Knives.

I worked at sears as a warehouse worker for a number of years in my younger days, and one day while moving freight inside, a coworker asked to borrow my knife, then PROMPTLY tried to pry through some metal banding on a wooden crate with it. Tin snips were lying not more than 10 feet away. It took some work getting that edge back. The problem with lending others tools is you have no idea how they will attempt use them, and flash lights and knives are often put to use as pry bars.

If people had replaced the tools/flashlights or anything else they lost or damaged over the years, I would be one happy man. All too often, all I get is "What?!?!? it cost how much?? Are you kidding me??" and that's it. Of course, that gets them put on the "dumb a** I don't loan ANYTHING to again" list.

and where do people get the idea it is OK to loan someone's tools to someone else?!?!? and par for the course, I have to go track that item down.

Cheapo lights I will loan, tools however require questions about work, where, when, what type, and NO, you damn well better not loan them to someone else.

[Lit Up]

I always love when certain people ask me to borrow one and I have to reply with, "Ummm, don't you work in maintenance??" It's like hello, tool of the trade go freaking buy one! Sheesh!

[hank]

I ask people 'do you know how to break it'?
And they go WTF?
And I quote from the Whole Earth Catalog a line by J. Baldwin:
"You don't know how to use a tool until you know six ways to break it."

[kaichu dento]

I actually enjoy helping others solve their problems, you can help folks without lending out gear very often. Check back in after you've had some tools damaged 3 or 4 times, or lost and tell a story. If you still have the same point of view, hair on ya cause yer doing well and are a credit to man.

I like to help others too, but instead of assuming that life needs to be fair to me in order for me to offer that help, I just try to make myself useful during my time on earth as best I can.

Lost a IFE-1 (?) last year after loaning it out, then after letting a friend carry my Calipsoii loaded A2 and hCRI modded V10R Ti for a couple weeks, he's lost the A2. Since he's one of the people that helps make life bearable here at work and he's got his future on track with the girl of his dreams, I'm not going to impede by worrying too much about holding him accountable.

I'm going to continue to try and help others in whatever way I can, and sometimes that requires carrying them on your back. Still, the path I choose for myself is my own choice and I don't really expect others to understand or necessarily follow suit, but there are others out there who feel the same way.

[Lit Up]

Kind of goes with the catch a man a fish, feed him for a day. But teach a man to fish...philosophy

I think I'll exercise that from now on in regards to lights. Instead of lending mine out, I'll instead get out my phone and open the Amazon shopping app for them, so they can acquire their own light to have from there on.

[Harry999]

I am saying this in jest so don't take this seriously but I had the image of someone asking for a flashlight and I open my suit jacket and there are a number of flashlights attached with price labels. I then offer to sell them one!!!

[fyrstormer]

I am saying this in jest so don't take this seriously but I had the image of someone asking for a flashlight and I open my suit jacket and there are a number of flashlights attached with price labels. I then offer to sell them one!!!

Extra points if you're wearing a trenchcoat at the time.

I've made this point before, but it's worth mentioning again: if you buy a steel flashlight (or titanium, if you can afford it), you won't have to worry about anyone breaking it. There's a reason why a certain percentage of flashaholics end up migrating towards the "ultra-durable custom-made" market segment, and the reason is that it's a lot more pleasant to use (and loan) tools that you don't need to be careful with, even if you do choose to be careful with them.

[shelm]

I've made this point before, but it's worth mentioning again: if you buy a steel flashlight (or titanium, if you can afford it), you won't have to worry about anyone breaking it.

if a light isnt protected with rubber like a rayovac indestructible, the light will break (driver board by the battery, or the glass lens) if you let it fall down 100.0000% vertically bezel down onto plane, smooth, hard surface such as marble tiles. typically Chi*a aluminum lights are rated 1.0, 1.2 or 1.5m ANSI FL-1 Standard for "drop resistance", and this is meant for ANSI testing and not for the case i just depicted (100.000000% etc.).

the rayovac (10m drop resistance ANSI FL-1) is cheap enough and indestructible BECAUSE it has plastic lens, plastic parts, glued parts and lots of rubber. i would lend out such a light anytime.

give me your steel light or your expensive titanium light and i will drop it from 2.0m (which is not high imho). i will bet that it will break (e.g. the lens) after repeated 100.0000% vertical drops

[WebHobbit]

A guy I work closely with everyday I would have no issue loaning my light to because I think he will respect my stuff. It's funny because he thinks I'm kind of insane to spend $200+ on my EDC SF+Malkoff (and other mods). But he also recognizes how awesome the light they put out is so if he needs a flashlight he either gets me to spot for him or he sometimes borrows it himself. He is the exception though...most of the folks I work with ---NO.

[Burgess]

No means No.


What part of " No " don't you understand ? ? ?


Fortunately --

at my advanced age (58 years old),

I no longer give a sh1t *WHAT* people think of me.



_

[fyrstormer]

if a light isnt protected with rubber like a rayovac indestructible, the light will break (driver board by the battery, or the glass lens) if you let it fall down 100.0000% vertically bezel down onto plane, smooth, hard surface such as marble tiles. typically Chi*a aluminum lights are rated 1.0, 1.2 or 1.5m ANSI FL-1 Standard for "drop resistance", and this is meant for ANSI testing and not for the case i just depicted (100.000000% etc.).

the rayovac (10m drop resistance ANSI FL-1) is cheap enough and indestructible BECAUSE it has plastic lens, plastic parts, glued parts and lots of rubber. i would lend out such a light anytime.

give me your steel light or your expensive titanium light and i will drop it from 2.0m (which is not high imho). i will bet that it will break (e.g. the lens) after repeated 100.0000% vertical drops

There are 360 degrees in a circle and two axes of rotation the light could be oriented in when it falls. That equals 129,600 possible orientations (using whole degrees only, not counting fractions) that the light could have upon impact. The chances of it hitting dead-on vertical are extremely slim. Also, any self-respecting flashlight has at least one O-ring sealing the lense and insulating it from the force of impact, and well-designed electronics will use separate circuit boards for the driver and the battery contact. McGizmos have dual O-rings insulating the synthetic-sapphire lense from impact, and the sapphire itself is strong enough that when I needed to remove some damaged anti-reflective coating, I scrubbed the lense with a motorized steel wire brush and it had no effect on the optical quality of the lense.

If you want to do your tests, go buy your own McGizmo and have fun. I'm not clumsy enough to drop mine often enough to damage it, but even if I did, all the parts are replaceable.

[Got Lumens?]

I ask people 'do you know how to break it'?
And they go WTF?
And I quote from the Whole Earth Catalog a line by J. Baldwin:
"You don't know how to use a tool until you know six ways to break it."

Hank,
Classic. I love it. I think I need to borrow that phrase...

I am saying this in jest so don't take this seriously but I had the image of someone asking for a flashlight and I open my suit jacket and there are a number of flashlights attached with price labels. I then offer to sell them one!!!

Harry,
That is cool, as long as that other side of the coat is not lined with fake rolexes

I have a solution that may work . . .
Just lend them one that has only spacer cells in it . Of course feel free to lay it on thick, this a custom $400 light, don't break it, make sure I get it back in the same condition, click...click, "ahhhgw the batteries are dead, you'll have to find someone elses and borrow thiers"
GL

[Lit Up]

I am saying this in jest so don't take this seriously but I had the image of someone asking for a flashlight and I open my suit jacket and there are a number of flashlights attached with price labels. I then offer to sell them one!!!

LOL I just got a vision of "Lootin' Lenny" from the TV sitcom Good Times.

[Harry999]

No I would have flashlights on one side and batteries on the other!



Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk

[Gregozedobe]

No means No.

........ I no longer give a sh1t *WHAT* people think of me.

I'm with Burgess - it seems nearly every time I've loaned something that I value there has ended up being a problem of one kind or another. Maybe the sort of person who isn't prepared (and therefore needs to borrow my stuff) is also the sort of person who doesn't look after other people's stuff ? These days I just give them a cheapo light that I definitely don't care about, that's much less stressful for me.

As far as tools go, I simply don't give anyone a choice, either I'll fix it using my own tool/s, or they look elsewhere for assistance (sometimes I'll let them use something under my direct supervision). I'm doing them the favour, so it happens on my terms or not at all.

[SHADE02]

Well..... after the first drop, in my case, it could probably be something like this: "give me that sh***!!!, get lost....

[AnAppleSnail]

click...click, "ahhhgw the batteries are dead, you'll have to find someone elses and borrow thiers"
GL

Lockout tailcap to the rescue!