Foxfury Breakthrough

View Poll Results: Please vote for your choice of body style

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  • Tube with threaded tail

    10 29.41%
  • Tube with integral tail & McClickie or FETtie

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Thread: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

  1. #61
    *Flashaholic* easilyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    Easilyled,

    Almost no one other than a machinist factors tooling wear & cost into a titanium light ... sounds to me like you have some machine experience. Tool wear on Grade 2 (commercially pure) titanium is far less than Grade 5 (Ti-6Al-4V) but Grade 2 has far less strength - aluminum alloy 6061 is 90% as strong in ultimate tensile strength as Grade 2. Grade 5 is 276% stronger than Grade 2 (source data from ASM Material Data Sheets).
    I wish I had some machine experience precisionworks, but alas I don't. I based my answer on what I've gleaned from the great machinists on CPF, people whose skills I admire immensely.
    Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine

  2. #62
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Wow, that body is sweet.

    The problem that I see with Ti is matching head/tailcaps (and cost), but I will see what you can come up with.

    I could be tempted with a HA black Al version though, easy enough to add surefire/kuku parts to make a complete light.

    Cheers,
    Nova

  3. #63
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by ^^Nova^^ View Post
    Wow, that body is sweet.

    Cheers,
    Nova
    Thanks for those nice words Nova.

    The problem that I see with Ti is matching head/tailcaps (and cost), but I will see what you can come up with.
    PEU & I haven't gotten to that point yet but something that repeated the upper body grooving might be nice on both the head & tail.

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  4. #64
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    I'm not in for one of these, because I only use RCR123s, but I do think having a Ti Aleph-compatible 18650 tube is a great option for people who like that battery size. As a purely academic point, I'd be interested to see a version with a non-removable tailcap, so a McGizmo clip could be used on it.

    I realize that is a totally useless response, but I thought I'd at least contribute some moral support.

  5. #65
    Flashaholic* F250XLT's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    IMO the design is far too busy, it would really require a pretty specific head and TC for the whole thing to come together properly. Perhaps when you can get one produced, and display it with some options that work you might generate more interest. Also, why not start with aluminum to keep the cost down and interest up?

  6. #66
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    I'd be interested to see a version with a non-removable tailcap, so a McGizmo clip could be used on it.

    I realize that is a totally useless response, but I thought I'd at least contribute some moral support.
    We appreciate the input. The rear of the battery tube (right before the tailcap) is 0.128" (3.25mm) thick & could easily be drilled & tapped for a clip.

    Quote Originally Posted by F250XLT View Post
    ... when you can get one produced, and display it with some options that work you might generate more interest.
    We are looking for a shop that will run the body in small quantities, something in the 12-25 range. I agree that would help.

    Also, why not start with aluminum to keep the cost down and interest up?
    That will probably happen. Figure the cost in aluminum at half the cost of titanium, more or less.
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  7. #67
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    It looked like a clip could be fitted forward of the tailcap, I just happen to strongly prefer a non-removable tailcap to start with. It's one less bit to fuss with, it's less expensive since there's one less pair of threads to cut, and it just so happens to allow mounting the clip all the way at the end of the light. As long as it's got a good switch installed, there isn't really any reason to ever take the tailcap off, and on a Ti light there's no benefit being able to loosen the tailcap either, since you can't make a lockout tailcap out of bare metal.

  8. #68
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    It looked like a clip could be fitted forward of the tailcap, I just happen to strongly prefer a non-removable tailcap to start with. It's one less bit to fuss with, it's less expensive since there's one less pair of threads to cut, and it just so happens to allow mounting the clip all the way at the end of the light. As long as it's got a good switch installed, there isn't really any reason to ever take the tailcap off, and on a Ti light there's no benefit being able to loosen the tailcap either, since you can't make a lockout tailcap out of bare metal.
    I can't argue with your logic frystormer. Problem is that there are two opposing forces on this - those that want an integral tail & those that will not buy it if it has an integral tail.

    A poll has been added to this thread. Please vote for your choice so PEU & I can get a better feel for the market.
    Last edited by precisionworks; 03-17-2012 at 01:37 PM.
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  9. #69
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Would it be possible for 2x123a batteries instead of the 18650,i'd love one of these in titanium for my 6v haiku

  10. #70
    *Flashaholic* easilyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by davyro View Post
    Would it be possible for 2x123a batteries instead of the 18650,i'd love one of these in titanium for my 6v haiku
    There's no reason why this shouldn't be possible. You could even have 2 18350's which is my setup with the TBSB with a 6V Makai LE.
    Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine

  11. #71
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by davyro View Post
    Would it be possible for 2x123a batteries instead of the 18650,i'd love one of these in titanium for my 6v haiku
    There's no reason why this shouldn't be possible. You could even have 2 18350's which is my setup with the TBSB with a 6V Makai LE.
    +1

    I keep a handful of CR123's in all the vehicles in case an 18650 expires unexpectedly. CR123's are a bit loose as they measure around 0.670" (17mm) and most 18650 bores run from 0.730"-0.750" (18.5mm-19.0mm). Before 18650 was my battery of choice I wrapped a few layers of black plastic tape around the CR123 to give it a nice fit in the larger bore.

    Either 2x18350, 1x18650 or 2xCR123 will work with most light engines most of the time. A pair of CR's produces about 6 volts while the 18mm cells run a touch under 4 volts. Light output depends on how the driver is configured.
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  12. #72
    Enlightened SparkLite's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    I'd be up for one or two of these in bronze!


    Titanium is so 2008...

  13. #73
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by SparkLite View Post
    I'd be up for one or two of these in bronze!


    Titanium is so 2008...
    ...until you have to carry it all day with sweaty hands...

  14. #74
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by SparkLite View Post
    I'd be up for one or two of these in bronze!
    Cool, your is the first request for bronze.
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  15. #75
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    Cool, your is the first request for bronze.

    or brass... I'm easy..

  16. #76
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by SparkLite View Post
    or brass... I'm easy..
    LOL

    Not sure which way we'll go on this, PEU has more experience in red metals than I do. Happy to hear that either flavor will work for you.
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  17. #77
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    Either 2x18350, 1x18650 or 2xCR123 will work with most light engines most of the time. A pair of CR's produces about 6 volts while the 18mm cells run a touch under 4 volts. Light output depends on how the driver is configured.
    I have had trouble fitting 2x18350 into SF E-series bodies, they are longer than either CR123 or 18650 and I could not screw the head on far enough to get the torch to work. This was with E2E and LF HO-E2R incan bulb (stock SF bulb didn't fit either, although I wasn't going to turn it on). This also depends upon the spring in the tailcap.

    If you go for a McClicky be aware that the springs are fairly stiff. I have dented a couple of batteries using McC's.

    Cheers,
    Nova

  18. #78
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by ^^Nova^^ View Post
    I have had trouble fitting 2x18350 into SF E-series bodies, they are longer than either CR123 or 18650 and I could not screw the head on far enough to get the torch to work. This was with E2E and LF HO-E2R incan bulb (stock SF bulb didn't fit either, although I wasn't going to turn it on). This also depends upon the spring in the tailcap.

    If you go for a McClicky be aware that the springs are fairly stiff. I have dented a couple of batteries using McC's.

    Cheers,
    Nova
    The 18650 seems like the most logical choice based on capacity. AFAIK it is the most highly developed Li-Ion cell that is in common use ... thanks to laptop computer development.
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  19. #79
    Flashaholic Midnight Run's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Just noticed this thread!

    You can definitely count me in for one or two of these!

    And I voted for the integrated tail.
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  20. #80
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Run View Post
    Just noticed this thread!

    You can definitely count me in for one or two of these!

    And I voted for the integrated tail.
    Thanks Tashi Looks like the votes are currently running 2:1 for an integrated tail. May have to make some of each. Still looking for the shop to run these.

    BTW your custom knife work is stunning http://wn.com/TashiMidnightDesign
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  21. #81
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Actually, 18650s are starting to fall out of favor as laptop batteries, compared to folded Lithium Polymer batteries, because they can be made to fit into the entire underside of the laptop. Makes me wonder how much power could be gotten from a Li-Po battery coiled into the shape of an 18650.

    Regarding the springs on McClicky switches: the first thing I do with every McClicky I buy, whether loose or installed in a light, is crush the spring flat. That shortens and softens it a little bit. I also sand down the tip of the spring in case the end of the spring coil has a sharp edge that might dig into my batteries. Doing both of these things has made using McClickies completely irritation-free.

    One last thought regarding the design of the ROTOR tube: make the front part of the tube long enough for the user to hold securely while unscrewing the back part of the tube. Since the front part doesn't need to be unscrewed from the head in order to change the battery, the easiest (and cleanest) usage would be to leave the front part screwed into the head at all times, and unscrew the front part from the back part to change the battery. Maybe a bit of knurling or TB-style cut squares would be appropriate to improve grip while unscrewing the two parts of the tube from each other.
    Last edited by fyrstormer; 03-20-2012 at 09:27 AM.

  22. #82
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    ... One last thought regarding the design of the ROTOR tube: make the front part of the tube long enough for the user to hold securely while unscrewing the back part of the tube. Since the front part doesn't need to be unscrewed from the head in order to change the battery, the easiest (and cleanest) usage would be to leave the front part screwed into the head at all times, and unscrew the front part from the back part to change the battery. Maybe a bit of knurling or TB-style cut squares would be appropriate to improve grip while unscrewing the two parts of the tube from each other.
    Every E-compatible body I've seen looks like PEU's blueprint (partial shown below). The bore is somewhere around .730"-.740" (18.5-18.8mm) with a necked down section below the bore & a slightly larger section below that. To load a battery in the ROTOR the top cap is unscrewed.

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  23. #83
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Hmm. It's possible I misunderstand the point of the two-piece design. I was under the impression the two-piece design exists because an 18650 can't fit through the forward opening, i.e. the part that screws into the head of the light. If that is correct, all I'm saying is, make sure the forward piece is long enough that it's easy to hold onto when taking the tube apart. If my understanding is incorrect, disregard my previous post.

  24. #84
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    Hmm. It's possible I misunderstand the point of the two-piece design. I was under the impression the two-piece design exists because an 18650 can't fit through the forward opening, i.e. the part that screws into the head of the light. If that is correct, all I'm saying is, make sure the forward piece is long enough that it's easy to hold onto when taking the tube apart. If my understanding is incorrect, disregard my previous post.
    My apologies frystormer - you got it exactly right but I misunderstood what you said

    One of the design challenges of the split body (two piece tube) is to try to keep the LE contact as close as possible to the battery positive terminal. Button top batteries work fine but flat tops like the AW cells need either a magnet or an extender. We've worked out a simple & inexpensive extender for owners who need that. It's a balancing act between a "top" piece that's easy to grip & one that's short enough for battery contact.
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  25. #85
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    I understand the compromise you're making. Since you've actually held one in your hands before, you obviously know firsthand whether the grip problem I mentioned actually exists in real life. If the "top piece" actually is hard to hold onto, perhaps some longitudinal cuts on the exposed surface would help, like the cuts on the head of a McGizmo Sapphire. The outer diameter of the exposed portion of the "top piece" could also be made a bit wider, to allow extra wall thickness to accommodate grip-enhancing cuts, as well as to prevent the user from accidentally holding the edge of the "bottom piece" while trying to separate the two pieces. A taper along the rear edge of the "top piece" could bring the two pieces together smoothly.

    Admittedly I'm thinking entirely about utility and barely at all about appearance. My grip-enhancement idea might run counter to the "hidden seam" paradigm you're working with.

  26. #86
    Flashaholic Midnight Run's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Thanks bud!

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    Thanks Tashi Looks like the votes are currently running 2:1 for an integrated tail. May have to make some of each. Still looking for the shop to run these.

    BTW your custom knife work is stunning http://wn.com/TashiMidnightDesign
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  27. #87
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by easilyled View Post
    There's no reason why this shouldn't be possible. You could even have 2 18350's which is my setup with the TBSB with a 6V Makai LE.
    I've thought about that but its easier to find rocky horses sh*t than a TBSB,i've got the McGizmo 2x123 pak but i want a Makai head for that so if the Rotor looks the part i'll buy a couple of 18350's
    & go with that set up.

  28. #88
    *Flashaholic* easilyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by davyro View Post
    I've thought about that but its easier to find rocky horses sh*t than a TBSB,i've got the McGizmo 2x123 pak but i want a Makai head for that so if the Rotor looks the part i'll buy a couple of 18350's
    & go with that set up.
    Yes, I meant to illustrate by my statement that since it was possible to use 2 18350s with a TBSB and a Makai head, then this set-up might also work with the Rotor - since it works on the same principle as the TBSB.

    However since tolerances are all slightly different amongst batteries, L.Es and different bodies, there is no 100% guarantee. Just because it happened to work with my set-up doesn't mean that it will definitely work in somebody else's.
    Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine

  29. #89
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Seems like it should be possible to make the ROTOR have an internal chamber at least 70mm long, to accommodate a pair of 18350s. If that were done, I might have to put myself on the waiting list for one of these after all, since all my P60 drop-ins are 2-cell compatible.

  30. #90
    Flashaholic* csshih's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTORョ - E-series compatible 18650 body

    did you really register "rotor" as a trademark?

    C

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