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Thread: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

  1. #91
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by csshih View Post
    did you really register "rotor" as a trademark?

    C
    No ... I meant to use © but hit ® instead (that's what happens when I get in a hurry late at night )
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  2. #92
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Wow, my integral-tail suggestion was more popular than I expected. Usually when I make product suggestions they kinda linger for a bit and then disappear, like soap bubbles.

  3. #93
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    Wow, my integral-tail suggestion was more popular than I expected. Usually when I make product suggestions they kinda linger for a bit and then disappear, like soap bubbles.
    +1

    Here's where this project stands today ... prints, description & renderings were emailed to almost a dozen nearby CNC shops, including some in the greater St. Louis area (Missouri & Illinois) - population of 3 million. Also posted this on MFG.com. Received a grand total of one quote

    In quantities of 25 the quote was over $60 higher than the original estimate from PEU's shop. We will continue to look for a shop that can more efficiently run these & we know they exist. If we can wait 6-12 months there's one shop down the block that will match the original estimate.

    Bottom line? If the price is $60 more no one will buy this body & if the profit is $60 less it is not economically feasible.
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  4. #94
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    If it can hold a pair of 18350s, I can wait six months to get one. I'm not going to be stumbling around in the dark until then.

    Can PEU's shop not do the work even though they provided an estimate? What about TnC? The ROTOR would make a good companion product for their E2C adaptors.

  5. #95
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    Can PEU's shop not do the work even though they provided an estimate? What about TnC? The ROTOR would make a good companion product for their E2C adaptors.
    Hopefully someone will step up. I hear about all the shops looking for work but around here there was never a slow down in machining work.

    I spent today working on a 20' slide gate operator that had never worked properly. Eight hours later & it's running like a well oiled machine The company makes both underground storm shelters & above ground plate steel safe rooms. As one of the owners said (while giving me a job list for next week) they've not had a recession in their business. Nicely made products: Lifesaver Storm Shelters.
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  6. #96

    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    Hopefully someone will step up. I hear about all the shops looking for work but around here there was never a slow down in machining work.
    .
    So True. Im working with a machine shop in your neck of the woods and he is so busy you cant even get him on the phone. I was shocked at how busy someone could be with a machine shop literally in the middle of the woods that are in the middle of a corn field...

  7. #97
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesantor View Post
    So True. Im working with a machine shop in your neck of the woods and he is so busy you cant even get him on the phone. I was shocked at how busy someone could be with a machine shop literally in the middle of the woods that are in the middle of a corn field...
    LOL

    Most of my partner shops don't advertise, don't accept any off the street (or off the web) retail business, & pick the jobs they like to run. I sent a text to one shop this morning asking if there was any way he could run 25 ROTOR bodies & his reply was simply "no way".

    At least he had the courtesy to reply. I can understand that some shops want only certain jobs, that's business. But how much effort does it take to send an email & say "no quote" or "unable to run this part". I wouldn't treat my dog like that.
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  8. #98
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesantor View Post
    So True. Im working with a machine shop in your neck of the woods and he is so busy you cant even get him on the phone. I was shocked at how busy someone could be with a machine shop literally in the middle of the woods that are in the middle of a corn field...
    If the product can fit in a UPS truck, it can be made anywhere and you'll never know.

  9. #99
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    At least he had the courtesy to reply. I can understand that some shops want only certain jobs, that's business. But how much effort does it take to send an email & say "no quote" or "unable to run this part". I wouldn't treat my dog like that.
    Forgive my soft-handed consultant mentality, but in my experience people who work with machines for a living -- any kind of machines, even computers -- don't value "people skills" very highly because machines are immune to their charms. It *is* odd they wouldn't have at least one dedicated sales/customer-service person, though. Maybe there's a market for someone who works from home or a small business-park office and handles customer interactions for multiple machine shops?

  10. #100

    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    What a beautiful design!

    What is keeping my cash in my pocket is simply that it isn't a complete light. What I saw in the renderings looks awesome as a light. Then I read its a body only. I was like huh?

    Don't look at a render as a body only, look at it as a finished light, would look really awesome!

  11. #101
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Just saw this thread. Stunning work, and what better inpiration than TB and Peu? I'm in, even if you have to charge the additional $60. This body is easily worth $300.

  12. #102
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by ev13wt View Post
    What a beautiful design!

    What is keeping my cash in my pocket is simply that it isn't a complete light. What I saw in the renderings looks awesome as a light. Then I read its a body only. I was like huh?

    Don't look at a render as a body only, look at it as a finished light, would look really awesome!
    Once you reach a critical mass of lights with interchangeable parts, buying more parts starts to make sense simply because you can't use all the lights you have at the same time anyway. Finding newer and cooler parts to make custom lights just becomes part of the fun.

  13. #103
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by arewethereyetdad View Post
    Just saw this thread. Stunning work, and what better inpiration than TB and Peu? I'm in, even if you have to charge the additional $60. This body is easily worth $300.
    Dad,

    Thank you for your compliments & confidence in the design. PEU & I really want to get these machined but the one issue that's holding us back is the number 25 ... meaning that we have to pay up front for 25 bodies & hope to sell enough to recapture our investment. The shop will run as few as 12 but the price is heart stopping.

    If anyone has knowledge of a small run/prototype CNC shop we'd love to hear about it. Until then we keep on looking.
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  14. #104

    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    Once you reach a critical mass of lights with interchangeable parts, buying more parts starts to make sense simply because you can't use all the lights you have at the same time anyway. Finding newer and cooler parts to make custom lights just becomes part of the fun.
    Ok, I understand that. Sounds like a plan. So noob question, what heads can I use on this that are of the same material? McGizmos stuff? SF? While on the subject, what thread size do the heads that would fit on this body have?


    The body would also look cool if the flats on the rings would be less aggressively stepped, as in 5 degrees or so? The way it is is awesome, don't misunderstand me pls. Looks sort of like a crankcase.

  15. #105
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    Dad,

    Thank you for your compliments & confidence in the design. PEU & I really want to get these machined but the one issue that's holding us back is the number 25 ... meaning that we have to pay up front for 25 bodies & hope to sell enough to recapture our investment. The shop will run as few as 12 but the price is heart stopping.

    If anyone has knowledge of a small run/prototype CNC shop we'd love to hear about it. Until then we keep on looking.
    Contact CPF member RPM. If anyone can handle this project, it's Rich. That's "Rich" in name, not in cost.

  16. #106
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by ev13wt View Post
    Ok, I understand that. Sounds like a plan. So noob question, what heads can I use on this that are of the same material? McGizmos stuff? SF? While on the subject, what thread size do the heads that would fit on this body have?


    The body would also look cool if the flats on the rings would be less aggressively stepped, as in 5 degrees or so? The way it is is awesome, don't misunderstand me pls. Looks sort of like a crankcase.
    McGizmo sells E-series compatible heads that will fit the ROTOR body. TnC sells some E-series compatible heads and also some E2C adaptors that can be used with C-series compatible heads. TnC also does small runs of semi-custom titanium parts, such as the Ti and copper E2C adaptors I have, and the heavily-finned Ti V3 heads I'm using with my E2C adaptors.

    In addition, there's a slew of aluminum E-series and C-series (with adaptors) parts that will fit, made by multiple companies, including but not limited to Surefire themselves.

  17. #107

    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    McGizmo sells E-series compatible heads that will fit the ROTOR body. TnC sells some E-series compatible heads and also some E2C adaptors that can be used with C-series compatible heads. TnC also does small runs of semi-custom titanium parts, such as the Ti and copper E2C adaptors I have, and the heavily-finned Ti V3 heads I'm using with my E2C adaptors.

    In addition, there's a slew of aluminum E-series and C-series (with adaptors) parts that will fit, made by multiple companies, including but not limited to Surefire themselves.
    Thanks, I'm learning as I get deeper into this hobby.

  18. #108
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Great!!! Sorry if i'm off topic, but i need to ask.. do you plan to make a 18650 body like this for the V10R Ti ???...

  19. #109
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by sebast View Post
    ... do you plan to make a 18650 body like this for the V10R Ti ???
    Seems on topic to me

    If we can ever find a shop to run the ROTOR the possibility certainly exists for other 18650 tubes. A one piece tube with integrated tail & McClickie would be pretty cool for the V10R.
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  20. #110
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    I needed a hope... V10R ROTOR wow this sound so good.. I really wish you good luck for find a shop
    Last edited by sebast; 05-01-2012 at 01:32 PM.

  21. #111
    Flashaholic* Mattaus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    I'm might be talking nonsense because I'm really, really new to this game, but does it have to be a U.S. based shop? I know shipping costs then come into consideration but I've recently started a manufacture and sales thread that involves copper P60 pills being CNC turned. I was unsure of how many I needed when I started but within less than an hour of whee I live I found 4 shops all more than capable of doing the work, and 3 of the had lead times of less than a week. And those were all on the first page of Google...seems to be big business Down Under.

    Obviously a P60 sized copper pill is not a complicated part to machine nor is it a hard material to work with (unlike Titanium), but it is possibly an option. Your prices may be stupidly expensive but there is no harm in asking. Further more if the shipping of parts all the way back to the U.S. was an issue you could think about direct shipping to individuals from the country they are manufactured in. Not putting my hand up or offering any services, but just thinking out loud, trying to be helpful and so forth

    For what it's worth this is the shop running my P60 job.

    - Matt

  22. #112
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattaus View Post
    ... does it have to be a U.S. based shop?
    - Matt
    When we first started the plan was to source the material in Buenos Aires & run the parts at a shop PEU is familiar with. Material costs are higher than USA prices but labor costs are lower. Even with the international shipping it was a workable plan. PEU was going to live at the shop while the parts were run to make sure they all met spec.

    When a shop runs the same parts over & over there's no need to be in the shop & act as an inspector. If it's the first time the shop has run your parts you'll want to be there to avoid glitches. I've had a number of conversations with other small titanium light manufacturers & every one of them insists on the need to be present on new or complicated work. If the shop messes up they normally will not charge for setup time or machining time ... but they surely will charge for the bar stock that was run. Scrapping out aluminum isn't so bad but paying for quite a few kilos of titanium scrap will make a grown man cry.

    I found 4 shops all more than capable of doing the work, and 3 of these had lead times of less than a week.
    There are quite a few good shops within two hours driving distance of where I live. Normal lead times are 45 days ARO (after receipt of order). The best quote so far also has the longest lead time, somewhere between 60 and 90 days.

    Not putting my hand up or offering any services,
    I'll be glad to email the prints if you have time to run them over to Kilner's & see what they think. My only concern is that they don't list titanium as one of their day to day materials. That's not to say that they cannot run titanium but they may be less than enthusiastic.
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  23. #113
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    As long as we continue to build weapons at a feverish pace, the likelihood of getting a lead time shorter than a month or two from a US-based shop experienced with titanium isn't very good. You might have to consider shops in less warlike countries to get a reasonable lead time. That being said, if Congress doesn't get its act together and the uniform spending cuts go into effect, I imagine there will be a lot of high-end machine shops suddenly looking for extra work to fill the gaps after the new year.

  24. #114
    Flashaholic* Obijuan Kenobe's Avatar
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    Wow. What machine shops are you talking about I wonder? Are these the same ones they are talking about?

    obi
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  25. #115
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    As long as we continue to build weapons at a feverish pace, the likelihood of getting a lead time shorter than a month or two from a US-based shop experienced with titanium isn't very good.
    +1

    Two of the nearby shops do business with the General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems facility located in Marion Illinois. Three of the St. Louis shops do work for McDonnell-Douglas Aircraft. Our local newspaper reports when these companies receive government contracts (which seems often). Smaller contracts run around $10M USD & larger ones get into real money
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  26. #116
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    When we first started the plan was to source the material in Buenos Aires & run the parts at a shop PEU is familiar with. Material costs are higher than USA prices but labor costs are lower. Even with the international shipping it was a workable plan. PEU was going to live at the shop while the parts were run to make sure they all met spec.

    When a shop runs the same parts over & over there's no need to be in the shop & act as an inspector. If it's the first time the shop has run your parts you'll want to be there to avoid glitches. I've had a number of conversations with other small titanium light manufacturers & every one of them insists on the need to be present on new or complicated work. If the shop messes up they normally will not charge for setup time or machining time ... but they surely will charge for the bar stock that was run. Scrapping out aluminum isn't so bad but paying for quite a few kilos of titanium scrap will make a grown man cry.

    There are quite a few good shops within two hours driving distance of where I live. Normal lead times are 45 days ARO (after receipt of order). The best quote so far also has the longest lead time, somewhere between 60 and 90 days.

    I'll be glad to email the prints if you have time to run them over to Kilner's & see what they think. My only concern is that they don't list titanium as one of their day to day materials. That's not to say that they cannot run titanium but they may be less than enthusiastic.
    Understood Barry. I get the need to inspect the first job - my brother is going to be present when the first pill comes off the lathe so we can make sure it meets spec (and matches my drawings!).

    I'm paying for my order on Monday morning so I will ask them about Titanium. If they do then I'll grab the prints but if not it only takes 5 seconds to ask Of course like I said there's more than one shop close by - mass email here I come lol.

  27. #117
    Flashaholic* Obijuan Kenobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    +1 Three of Smaller contracts run around $10M USD & larger ones get into real money
    So that sounds like a bigger preorder than 25 ROTOR flashlight hosts. Yikes.

    obi
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  28. #118
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    Quote Originally Posted by Obijuan Kenobe View Post
    Wow. What machine shops are you talking about I wonder? Are these the same ones they are talking about?

    obi
    Yes. Those drone aircraft the US military is so fond of use a lot of precision-machined aluminum and titanium parts. Unlike full-size piloted aircraft, even the main supports are small enough for a medium-size machine shop to produce.

  29. #119
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    Is this project still on?

  30. #120
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROTOR® - E-series compatible 18650 body

    We have yet to find a shop that can deliver for the price we need. I can have one run but the cost is more than Dave charges for the SPY Tri-V
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