Compact 3 XM-L Powerhouse

[RichS]

Ok, I'm ready to pull the trigger on a 3 x XML powerhouse light. I'm looking at the below 3 lights, but I'm heavily leaning toward the TM11 Tiny Monster. I'm leaning toward the compact size, refined design and functionality of the TM11 vs. the rough/cheap nature of the DRY and the size of the RRT3. I know the TM 11 has had issues, which is why I'll only get the 3rd gen version.

So, any final thoughts to persuade me on one of the others? Any other contenders I should be considering before I pull the trigger? Thanks in advance!

• TM11 Tiny Monster (close to pulling the trigger on this one....)
• DRY
• JetBeam RRT3

[Ualnosaj]

Xtar S1 final production is coming very, very soon (to distributors) in a few days.

[CarpentryHero]

Each light has its pros and cons. The Jetbeam seems the most reliable, the Dry is a hotrod in Direct drive, and the Nitecore looks like the nicest size to brightness ratio.

The cons, the Jetbeam looks bulky, the Dry could melt if it's left on turbo, the Nitecore has had a few qc issues.

If the Nitecore has worked out the bugs IMHO it's the best all rounder

[TEEJ]

I have a Dry and the RRT-3.

The Dry is a toy, relatively speaking.....it packs a nice punch, its fun, and I got it to see if I could work it into my rotation for work...but I'd be leary of it in a situation where I had to COUNT on it.

Walking the dog, sure. Survival/use if there was a big storm, no.

The RRT-3 is the real deal, built well, works like a beast, and is throws more light than the Dry to boot. (ANSI lumens vs Chinese Lumens..)

I don't have the Tiny Munster, but I have compared it to the RRT-3, and it throws less flood and has less throw....and I would have gotten one instead of trying out the dry, except the UI was so wonky I knew I wouldn't want to have to go through it all to use it. It is SO much easier to use a control ring than a secret code of clicks to get to a beam you want.

So, that left the light with the most throw, the most flood, the best reliability, and the best UI, of the three you are considering...the RRT-3.




DRY - Range is roughly 233 meters in all these shots



RRT-3 - Same as above


Now - there are other lights that you might not realize have the juice, in practice, that you are looking for...for less $ than the Munster or RRT-3.

For example - The Klarus XT20 and the 4sevens S18 don't have the "numbers", but the LIGHT is great:



Klarus XT20




4sevens S18

The 4sevens S18 for example is on sale for ~ $167, a screaming deal until they seel all the old stock and the FOURSevens stuff is at regular prices again.


In the pics above, you can see all of the example light's beams in the air...and the Dry is at the end of its range for the most part, as its beam is all but dispersed compared to all of the others. The light that lands is a good flood of light, if the camera could take low light pics w/o being blurry - you'd be able to see well enough at the ~ 233 meter range with it..

The other lights show much stronger/more defined beams at this distance...and could project further if needed. Visually, if you were there, the lit up areas were pretty clear.


Food for thought, depending on what you want them to be able to do for you.

[candle lamp]

[QUOTE=RichS;3895837] Any other contenders I should be considering before I pull the trigger? Thanks in advance! [QUOTE]

You can consider this one! Xtar S1 final version may be another choice if you like thrower monster.

[RCLumens]

+1 on the RRT-3 from an owners perspective. I don't have the others, but can speak of the RRT3. Great light that throws very very well and puts out an excellent wall of light. The control ring is very easy to use and the run times are very reasonable. It's a tank and is the best light I own. I recommend it!

[boofy]

i was considering an rrt-3 xml light but instead decided on a tm11 tiny monster v1.12-1111. it is still on its way and should arrive this week. my main reasons for this light over the jetbeam were size, battery choice and price. it costs nearly half again a tm11. i like the fact that a tm11 can run on only 1 battery if needed in an emergency also. from what i have read, the newest versions (the one i have coming) has solved the issues of previous releases. goodgear does a video comparison of the two tm11/rrt3 xml on youtube. the jetbeam throws a little more, but how much throw do you really need. imo 280 approx meters is more than enough and it floods more also. im looking at how i can attach the tm11 to my mountain bike as it will make an excellent bike light. good luck deciding.

[RichS]

Thanks so much for the input so far!! I'm still researching / looking for any other input before I pull the trigger. It won't be a cheap purchase, as it will be either the TM11 or RRT-3 at this point.

Teej - thanks so much for the awesome beamshot comparison!! I have to tell you, after I saw those I spent quite a bit of time researching 47's X18....The rrt-3 looks great too, and I do like that it focuses the light a little more.

But the more I think about what I am wanting here, I think it is really more about max lumens in a small package, while maintaining a good level of practicality. The TM11 looks to be a good 30-40% smaller than the rrt-3, and puts out just about the same amount of light, and even pretty close to the same amount of throw. I like that it not only gives you the "wow" factor with all those lumens in a tiny package, but it is practical as well. Plenty of battery power, thermal protection, multiple levels for bright but practical long runs, can run off 1 battery in an emergency..and of course, it's tiny. The question for me is do they really have it "ready" now with the 3rd gen release. And, how do you get a 3rd gen? No one mentions the version in stock on any website...

One other thing - I like the beam profile of the TM11. Knowing it would tend to be a "wall of light" beam pattern with a short/shallow head and reflectors, they somehow were able to create a more traditional beam pattern by giving it a fairly defined spot to use for med-long distances. Not sure how they did it, but I like it. Of course it's not a "thrower", but I have other lights for that purpose.

Any other opinions/considerations would be greatly appreciated!

[boofy]

i got my tm11 v 1.12-1111 from bravotac (ebay) they only have v 1.11-1110 now in the listings. might be worth asking them if they still have the newest versions left or coming back in stock.

[AlPal]

I've been waiting for Zebralight to come out with the S6330. A 3 XM-L light with a maximum output of 2400 lumens, and it is only 4 inches long with a bezel diam. of 2.25 inches. This light is still in the preliminary stages, and is due out sometime in 2012. Unfortunately, I will have to keep waiting a while. Probably won't be ready until the end of the year. Hopefully it will be worth the wait.

[peterharvey73]

Just depends whether you want lateral flood or longitudinal throw really.
The TM11 with smaller and relatively shallower reflectors will flood laterally, and throw a little shorter at 286 meters as tested by Selfbuilt.
The RRT-3 Triple XM-L from the same parent company Sysmax has bigger and relatively deeper reflectors, with the three emitters more closely packed together for more throw at 346 meters, but less lateral flood.
Look at goinggear videos below to see the difference in lateral flooding:
1) TM11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K21RyStbwGQ
2) RRT-3 Triple XM-L: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSwjh0NG-Mg
Note how the RRT-3's deeper reflectors give a narrower spill, but then that light is redirected into the "corona" - a secondary band of light surrounding the hotspot, such that the RRT-3 has a very bright corona surrounding the hotspot.

For flooding purposes, we normally hold the flashlight by the lazy relaxing handshake grip, at the height of our thighs, well below the belt line; here the TM11 has the side switch.
For throwing, we hold the flashlight with four fingers over the top via the overhand grip, high above the shoulders, even high above the eye line to maximise throw; here, the RRT-3 has a tail end switch for the overhand grip.

Also:
The RRT-3 Triple is an older design, so it uses a magnetic ring, with very long 210 degrees of travel, such that it is not easy to operate one-handed; we must use both hands.
There is also an annoying strobe positioned on the far right, after Turbo mode; I wish they would relocate the strobe to the far left, then standby, then low to high etc.
The RRT-3 is significantly larger and heavier, so it can take more heat build-up before thermal protection kicks in.
With 4x18650, the TM11 does have 25% longer run time at 1 hour 15 minutes.

Both good lights. Up to you which way you go, or buy both!
I have the TM11 as a flooder.
And I actually have the original RRT-3 SST-50 as the thrower.
The old Olight M31 with an SST-50 emitter was tested to produce 760 lumens OTF, and a 63mm bezel diameter was also tested by Selfbuilt to throw 385 meters; I would suspect the old RRT-3 SST-50 with 1200 emitter lumens [~850 lumens OTF] and the same 63mm bezel diameter, to throw about the same or a little more than the M31.
Most of the current crop of single XM-L throwers today throw between 400 to 470 meters like the Crelant 7G5.
The Xtar S1 3x18650 powered Triple XM-L with a massive 83mm bezel throws a whopping 470 meters as tested by Selfbuilt, but the spill is very narrow as a consequence of the deep reflectors.

You could have both a flooder and a thrower.
Flooder for practical purposes - a TM11 is the best flooder so far.
Then your choice of single XM-L thrower etc to spot distant objects.
When we go for walks, I get my missus to carry the TM pure flooder, while I carry the old RRT-3 SST-50 pure thrower; I'll have to get myself a more modern thrower with 400-470 meters of throw - one day.

However, some people don't like to lug around two separate lights.
Then comes the RRT-3 Triple XM-L with 346 meters of throw, which offers something mid-way in between the two extremes, with just the one light to carry around.

I have Version 2 of the TM.
When it reaches 60 degrees Celsius, thermal pro kicks in to drop from Turbo to Hi, and when the TM is sufficiently cool, it reverts back to Turbo, and the cycle continues.
In the latest Version 3, once it drops to High, the electronics have been altered so that it will hold and remain in High Mode a lot longer, before it is allowed to revert back to Turbo Mode.
Some flashlights have electronics where it won't revert back to Turbo at all, unless you manually switch that particular flashlight back to Turbo.
Version 2 is fine by me; I've had it since November 2011...

[RichS]

Thanks for the thoughtful, detailed response Peter, much appreciated!

Based on all the feedback, I'm definitely leaning toward the TM11. Now I'm wondering based on what you said Peter if I want the V2 or V3... Is there information somewhere around here on what all they changed from V2 to V3?

[peterharvey73]

Read Selfbuilt's review on the TM11, especially Selfbuilt's Post #215, and MDJAK's Post #252 here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...TS-VIDEO/page9

Also read the TM11 Malfunctioning thread, esp Sigmasailor's Post #247:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...11+malfunction


When I read them again, in fact there may be no difference between Version 2 and Version 3 at all?
They may be just a third batch?
Perhaps you could email Nitecore themselves, and ask if there is actually any update, or is it just the next batch???
However, commonsense would say to get the latest version and the latest production run.
I'd go for the latest myself...

[peterharvey73]

In Selfbuilt's wall shots below, you will see the difference in lateral spill between the TM and the Xtar S1.
The TM's spill is so wide that it cannot be fully captured by his camera.
The S1's spill is really narrow.
However, the bigger and deeper reflectored Xtar will throw 470 meters, as opposed to the TM's 286 meters.

No one has offered the RRT-3 Triple XM-L to Selfbuilt for testing.
However, it would be in between the TM and Xtar for both flood and throw.
More accurately, at 346 meters, the RRT-3 Triple XM-L is much closer to the TM11 in characteristics, than the Xtar S1.
The RRT-3 Triple XM-L is good for someone who wants something in-between, rather than targeting the two extremes of compact versus huge in size, and flood versus throw in beam characteristics...

[peterharvey73]

Like Alpal says above, there is a Zebralight S6330 Triple XM-L coming.
It will be driven harder to produce 2400 lumens.
However, with a shorter body, it is likely to be floodier, with less throw, however the throw will be compensated for by the 20% extra lumens to 2400 lumens.
However, also with a shorter lighter body, there will be less body mass, so I wonder how it will cope with being driven 20% harder to produce the 2400 lumens and all that extra heat?
The TM already has a huge problem coping with the extra heat, due to it's compact size and mass.
The TM is not actually about a dodgy quality issue, but an issue about coping with the massive heat generated from such a compact size and mass flashlight.
Though the TM only uses a brass heatsink, with cheap adhesive between the emitter and brass heatsink.
Maybe the S6330 could use a pure copper heatsink, with high quality adhesive???
The SC600 single XM-L 750 lumens uses a 5 minute cut out on Turbo.
Will be interesting to see how the S6330 copes.
There will be a limit to how many lumens and how much heat can be tolerated per unit size and mass of the flashlight...

[xed888]

Like Alpal says above, there is a Zebralight S6330 Triple XM-L coming.
It will be driven harder to produce 2400 lumens.
However, with a shorter body, it is likely to be floodier, with less throw, however the throw will be compensated for by the 20% extra lumens to 2400 lumens.
However, also with a shorter lighter body, there will be less body mass, so I wonder how it will cope with being driven 20% harder to produce the 2400 lumens and all that extra heat?
The TM already has a huge problem coping with the extra heat, due to it's compact size and mass.
The TM is not actually about a dodgy quality issue, but an issue about coping with the massive heat generated from such a compact size and mass flashlight.
Though the TM only uses a brass heatsink, with cheap adhesive between the emitter and brass heatsink.
Maybe the S6330 could use a pure copper heatsink, with high quality adhesive???
The SC600 single XM-L 750 lumens uses a 5 minute cut out on Turbo.
Will be interesting to see how the S6330 copes.
There will be a limit to how many lumens and how much heat can be tolerated per unit size and mass of the flashlight...

Most probably with a step down function. Easy to incorporate

[LEDninja]

I would stay away from any 3*XML/5*XML lights that require UNPROTECTED batteries. That means those lights are pushing the batteries beyond their safety limits. They are brighter but do you really want to hold a bomb in your hands.

[bose301s]

Could look at the Ultrafire UF-T70, I know ****fire brands aren't terribly respected around here but it seems to be a quality light from reviews elsewhere.

[flashflood]

I highly recommend Elektrolumens Big Bruiser.

[turboBB]

I highly recommend Elektrolumens Big Bruiser.

@OP - If that's under consideration then you may be interested in the review (in progress)

[bose301s]

The reason I would buy a Big Bruiser myself is that it only has 1 mode and doesn't have great battery life because of that, otherwise a very nice light.

[turboBB]

The runtime Wayne quotes for the BB were for the MOLI's. The KK that he sent later on gets nearly triple the runtime and maintains output much better. I'll have the runtime chart and further details up later tonight.