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Thread: Jetbeam RRT-01

  1. #241
    Flashaholic* kaichu dento's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    In theory the ring itself could be magnetic, which would eliminate the need for the ring to contain a magnet inside it. However, it would have to be made of some magnetizable iron alloy for that to work. Technology can't eliminate tradeoffs, only replace tradeoffs with other tradeoffs.
    Overly negative assumptions seldom lead the type of progress that man has shown himself to be capable of over the ages and it's always the mind that sets out in search of the best way to overcome an obstacle that reaches the goal while others are still tallying the reasons for its impossibility.
    I surmise that it will be accomplished, though I know not when or how, because that's what optimistic people do.
    Marduke - Solitaire...I've seen matches which are brighter AND have a longer runtime. 光陰矢の如し

  2. #242

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    I suspect it will be accomplished too; where there's a will, there's a way...

  3. #243
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by kaichu dento View Post
    Overly negative assumptions seldom lead the type of progress that man has shown himself to be capable of over the ages and it's always the mind that sets out in search of the best way to overcome an obstacle that reaches the goal while others are still tallying the reasons for its impossibility.
    I surmise that it will be accomplished, though I know not when or how, because that's what optimistic people do.
    Tallying the reasons why something won't work is helpful because it gives other people a list of possible solutions that probably aren't worth trying. If someone walks in here saying "hey guys, I figured it out", I won't argue with them, I'll admire their solution and help them improve their design even more if I can.

    I'm an engineer. I spend my life hoping for the best and planning for the worst. Reality usually falls somewhere in the middle. But my comment about tradeoffs is not pessimism. Every change in one part of the universe must cause changes in other parts of the universe; every new procedure for doing something must have new requirements and constraints that impose limits. Domesticating cattle saved a lot of people a lot of work in farm fields, because bulls could pull the plows for them, but then they had to start growing crops to feed the cattle too. Inventing the combustion engine meant that food no longer needed to be grown to feed work animals, but then farmers had to buy fuel for the engines. Nothing is ever free. That is not pessimism, that is physics.

    I'm sorry if you didn't like my speculation about solutions and limitations to the "control ring thickness problem", but you not liking it doesn't mean I was being overly negative. It doesn't mean I was being negative at all, actually.
    Last edited by fyrstormer; 06-08-2012 at 10:07 AM.

  4. #244
    Flashaholic* kaichu dento's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    I'm sorry if you didn't like my speculation about solutions and limitations to the "control ring thickness problem", but you not liking it doesn't mean I was being overly negative. It doesn't mean I was being negative at all, actually.
    No need to determine like or dislike here now. Nor do I have a problem with the devil's advocate per se, but the last line of the post I quoted left the impression that any attempt to circumvent the problems noted could only lead to more problems and left a negative atmosphere to your otherwise insightful post. I actually like the main body of most of your posts and see you as one of the deeper thinkers here who is constantly willing to think outside of the realms of 'standard consensus', and I realize you don't see any of your points to be meant in the light of negativity, even though they often tend to come across that way.
    Marduke - Solitaire...I've seen matches which are brighter AND have a longer runtime. 光陰矢の如し

  5. #245

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    TNotice how most AAA lights have head twist controls?
    One reason to for a head twist control is to effectively lengthen the body for a better grip, in such a tiny short light that's only some 70mm long.
    Look at the Nitecore AAA example below.

    Also, I have a Zebralight SC600 750 OTF lumen which I EDC.
    I notice that the Zebralights deliberately and cleverly "forward" position their side switches, so that their short and compact flashlights ergonomically fit in the hand better, and the side switch is right there at the head itself for the thumb to operate.

    Suggestion Only:
    So, how about we turn the existing RRT-01 magnetic ring into a fixed heat sink, to increase surface area for heat dissipation - as I have sketched very very roughly below.
    Then we make the entire head of the RRT-01 mobile, into an infinitely continuously variable magnetic head rotary twist, but the Neodymium ring magnets still remain beneath the heat sink area and attached to the main body of the flashlight.
    In other words, the mobile rotary head of the future RRT-01, would have an "internal" cylinder, that attaches "inside" the ring magnets itself, rather than the conventional magnetic ring surrounding the ring magnets.
    So, instead of rotating the magnetic ring of the existing RRT-01, we would rotate the more anteriorly positioned head only.

    However, the engineers don't have to squeeze the ring magnets and unit, adjacent to the wide diameter reflector.
    Rather, the ring magnets stay where they presently are, but the ring control is now "internal", inside the ring magnets.

    This just a very rough idea only.
    Just a suggestion.
    However, such an ergonomic design may be possible.
    I'm sure there are people out there far more clever than me, who could easily solve this problem...







    The diagonal pencil shaded area is the mobile rotary head.
    While the red diagonal shaded area is the Neodymium magnetic ring.
    Thus the head has an internal cylindrical attachment to the body of the flashlight, relative to the Neodymium magnets.
    This internal cylinder is then attached to an end plate that is wider than the internal cylinder, to lock the head into the body of the flashlight.
    Meanwhile, the existing magnetic ring of the RRT-01 is turned into a built-in heat sink, to increase the surface area of metal for heat dissipation into the atmosphere.
    I'm sure such a design is feasible, if someone could come up with the details...
    Last edited by peterharvey73; 06-08-2012 at 12:23 PM.

  6. #246
    Flashaholic fishndad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by peterharvey73 View Post
    TNotice how most AAA lights have head twist controls?
    One reason to for a head twist control is to effectively lengthen the body for a better grip, in such a tiny short light that's only some 70mm long.
    Look at the Nitecore AAA example below.

    Also, I have a Zebralight SC600 750 OTF lumen which I EDC.
    I notice that the Zebralights deliberately and cleverly "forward" position their side switches, so that their short and compact flashlights ergonomically fit in the hand better, and the side switch is right there at the head itself for the thumb to operate.

    Suggestion Only:
    So, how about we turn the existing RRT-01 magnetic ring into a fixed heat sink, to increase surface area for heat dissipation - as I have sketched very very roughly below.
    Then we make the entire head of the RRT-01 mobile, into an infinitely continuously variable magnetic head rotary twist, but the Neodymium ring magnets still remain beneath the heat sink area and attached to the main body of the flashlight.
    In other words, the mobile rotary head of the future RRT-01, would have an "internal" cylinder, that attaches "inside" the ring magnets itself, rather than the conventional magnetic ring surrounding the ring magnets.
    So, instead of rotating the magnetic ring of the existing RRT-01, we would rotate the more anteriorly positioned head only.

    However, the engineers don't have to squeeze the ring magnets and unit, adjacent to the wide diameter reflector.
    Rather, the ring magnets stay where they presently are, but the ring control is now "internal", inside the ring magnets.

    This just a very rough idea only.
    Just a suggestion.
    However, such an ergonomic design may be possible.
    I'm sure there are people out there far more clever than me, who could easily solve this problem...







    The diagonal pencil shaded area is the mobile rotary head.
    While the red diagonal shaded area is the Neodymium magnetic ring.
    Thus the head has an internal cylindrical attachment to the body of the flashlight, relative to the Neodymium magnets.
    This internal cylinder is then attached to an end plate that is wider than the internal cylinder, to lock the head into the body of the flashlight.
    I'm sure such a design is feasible, if someone could come up with the details...
    Your very good at design. however design a new Jet Beam, dont change the rrto1,Its my favorite light period.
    PC10,Eoslamp SMA12,M11R, are my other 3 compact lights.
    Union Proud IBEW Local 683

  7. #247

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by fishndad View Post
    Your very good at design. however design a new Jet Beam, dont change the rrto1,Its my favorite light period.
    PC10,Eoslamp SMA12,M11R, are my other 3 compact lights.
    Sure, we'll call it an RRT-02???

  8. #248

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Look at the existing RRT-01 head with the longitudinal "finger/thumb" wells - it's already asking to be rotated?

    One more point to consider is that more heat is emitted from the emitter, inside the existing RRT-01 magnetic ring, than from the front finger/thumb well area surrounding the reflector.
    Thus, it may be even worthy to turn the magnetic ring into a fixed heat sink for superior heat dissipation, while the rotary control is in the head.
    Also, if I remember correctly, the original RRT-0 XR-E R2 from several years ago, actually had a mobile head twist, as well as a magnetic ring?
    If the original RRT-0 XR-E R2 did not have this, then the original RRT-2 XR-E R2 certainly did have a mobile head, as well as a magnetic ring...



    Last edited by peterharvey73; 06-08-2012 at 12:51 PM.

  9. #249

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    One option is to design a much wider ring (and by wider I mean covers more distance between the head and tail of the light.... the ring does not need to stick out more so should not make the light much fatter). The part of the ring at the back of the head could have the magnet in it. It would be covered by a sleeve extending up from the body tube. However, unlike today's rings, this ring could also extend forward towards the head of the light. This is the only part of the ring that would be exposed. It would sit up near the front of the light and would be the part you actually turn to control the brightness.

    Because this part of the ring would not have the magnet in it, it could extend as far towards the front of the light as you want to make it and could be very thin.
    Last edited by Fireclaw18; 06-08-2012 at 01:52 PM.

  10. #250

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    When we look at the photo below, this Eagletac D25C must work in a very similar way, but there is no Neodymium magnet beneath its heat sink, for infinite continuously variable brightness control...




  11. #251

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by peterharvey73 View Post
    When we look at the photo below, this Eagletac D25C must work in a very similar way, but there is no Neodymium magnet beneath its heat sink, for infinite continuously variable brightness control...
    I'm not a huge fan of trying to make a traditional twisty light into an infinitely variable magnetic light. You can get or make an infinitely variable twisty using QTC material. Magnets aren't needed.

    However, what I really dislike about a traditional twisty is that you can't "flick" the light from off to max. In a traditional twisty if you unscrew the head too far from the body... it falls off. What's great about the control ring on the RRT-01 is that you get a hard stop at both the on and off positions. There's no chance the head will fall off. And the head doesn't feel wobbly like some traditional twisties.

  12. #252

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    I have modified the sketch to clarify that it is not a head twisty.

    It is in fact identical to the existing RRT-01, with the neck unit attached to the conventional battery carrier via annodised square threads.
    However, the head with the existing finger/thumb wells is now mobile by 90 degrees, and has a connecting internal throat cylinder, which is internally attached to the inside of the mid-piece neck unit, and locked-in via a wider end plate.
    This end-plate could be fastened to the internal throat cylinder by two very small screws.
    In reality, the heat sinks wouldn't be as deep as I have lazily drawn, and the Neodymium magnetic ring wouldn't be as thick either, such that the internal throat cylinder housing the emitter and electronic circuitry, would be a much larger diameter cylinder.

    So, in the end, we have a near identical looking flashlight, with a built-in fixed heatsink replacing the old magnetic ring, while the existing head with the existing finger/thumb wells becomes only 90 degrees mobile, with a standby micro-amperage detent, and then some 90 degrees of infinite continuously variable brightness adjustment, an U2 bin emitter, and an LOP reflector, plus a slightly shortened keyring post, with a flat square cut tail with no 45 degree bevels, for 100% tail standability with zero wobble.
    In short, this is one possible way of making the head 90 degrees mobile into an infinite control switch, without having to relocate/reposition the bulky Neodynum ring magnets to the area directly around the reflector, which ultimately would compromise the size of the reflector.
    Thus, we have merely interchanged the magnetic rotary control, from the neck to the front end, such that the body of the RRT-01 is effectively longer, so that we have a better grip on an 80mm long flashlight, just like the ergonomic Zebralights and the Eagletac D25C.

    This design may also actually improve heat dissipation since the built-in heat sink will conduct heat much more than a mobile magnetic ring around the emitter and circular electronic board.

    We should ask ourselves, presently if we hold the RRT-01 by the handshake grip, doesn't our thumb and index finger naturally and ergonomically wrap around the head area with the longitudinal finger/thumb wells, or even the stainless steel bezel for that matter?
    If we think about it, the more the magnetic ring is placed closer to the tail of the RRT-01, the more difficult it will be to operate the magnetic ring via the lazy relaxing hand shake grip.
    In fact, if the magnetic ring was positioned towards the tail half of the RRT-01, the RRT-01 would turn into a HDS Rotary with a tail positioned rotary control for the overhand grip...




    Last edited by peterharvey73; 06-08-2012 at 11:04 PM.

  13. #253

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Ah I see how you've done it. Looks like an interesting design, as it would allow the front of the light to twist, but with limited travel each way like a conventional magnetic control ring light, while the body can still screw to the tube like the RRT-01.

    If I'm interpreting your drawing right it looks like the light would have 3 basic sections: The front section includes the reflector, driver and LED. This section would be the part that would twist to control brightness. The middle section includes the heatsink and magnet. It would be stationary. The rear section is the body tube and would screw in like in the RRT-01.

    Two possible issues with this design:
    1. The heatsink appears to be mounted on a different section of the light from the LED. Presumably it's going to be much less efficient at transferring heat from the LED to the exterior of the light than if it were mounted on the same section.
    2. Since the driver is rotating back and forth when the brightness is changed, how is the driver going to maintain electrical contact with the battery? Is the back of the driver going to constantly slide against the top of the battery every time the light is worked?

  14. #254

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Wow, let me think about this.
    Hopefully the real engineers can refine the basic idea and come up with something.
    Presently, I don't think the RRT-01 has any heat sink at all does it?
    And the heat wouldn't conduct that well to the mobile magnetic ring, would it???

    I believe it is also possible for me to come up with a similar design where the LED and driver actually remain stationary.
    Let me think about it over the next few days...

  15. #255

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Having spent all that time considering a more forward positioned rotary head infinite brightness adjustment and switch, we could just as well stick with the existing magnetic ring, surrounding the emitter and circuit board - very little difference...

  16. #256
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by kaichu dento View Post
    No need to determine like or dislike here now. Nor do I have a problem with the devil's advocate per se, but the last line of the post I quoted left the impression that any attempt to circumvent the problems noted could only lead to more problems and left a negative atmosphere to your otherwise insightful post. I actually like the main body of most of your posts and see you as one of the deeper thinkers here who is constantly willing to think outside of the realms of 'standard consensus', and I realize you don't see any of your points to be meant in the light of negativity, even though they often tend to come across that way.
    That's because that was the impression I was *trying* to convey. There are *always* tradeoffs.

    peterharvey73, your idea for replacing the control ring with a magnetic-sensed twisty head is intriguing, but I'm afraid I already see some problems with it. The head will need to be physically prevented from falling off the front of the light. Currently control rings are held in place by being trapped in a groove formed by two parts of the head screwing together and held together with Loc-Tite. If the entire front of the head can turn, it will need a different mechanism to keep it held in place. The commercially easiest solution to implement would be to have the two parts of the head press-fit into a ball-bearing assembly, but that would make disassembling very difficult and it also wouldn't provide enough friction to keep the head from turning accidentally. Another solution would be to have the front of the head disassemble into a forward and backward piece, which screw together to bind onto the back part of the head where the electronics are located. However, both of these solutions have problems with proper sealing against water, since the rotating interface would open at one end to the outside world and at the other end into the electronics chamber. Current control ring designs don't have that problem because the control ring is completely outside the sealed part of the head. Adding seals is possible, of course, but it will add more friction and more parts that need to be lubricated, and moving seals always leak eventually.

    This, plus what Fireclaw posted, is what I mean when I say there are always tradeoffs. The question is whether the end product is worth making those tradeoffs.

    I suspect your other idea of making the control ring wider so it reaches further forward over the head is the most practical solution. In fact a prototype could be made by anyone with the ability to cut a piece of tubing to fit snugly over the existing control ring.
    Last edited by fyrstormer; 06-10-2012 at 02:32 PM.

  17. #257
    Flashaholic* kaichu dento's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
    That's because that was the impression I was *trying* to convey. There are *always* tradeoffs.
    When a compromise is made, there can be tradeoffs, but the only tradeoffs made when a proper solution is found are accurately called improvements.
    A solution belongs firmly in the camp of being labeled an improvement when executed in such a manner as to have no negative aspects.
    I suspect your other idea of making the control ring wider so it reaches further forward over the head is the most practical solution. In fact a prototype could be made by anyone with the ability to cut a piece of tubing to fit snugly over the existing control ring.
    I like that one too and wonder if Mr. Ku is not already thinking about offering us a head with improved tactile user interface. I'd definitely be in line waiting for one.
    Marduke - Solitaire...I've seen matches which are brighter AND have a longer runtime. 光陰矢の如し

  18. #258
    Flashaholic* beach honda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Bumping this thread. Would like to hear more opinions from people who have been putting this light through its paces. Is it durable and holding up for those of you who use your lights ruggedly?

    Thanks
    -Chr1s-
    Got Lights? USE EM!!

  19. #259
    Flashaholic* F250XLT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    I don't use any of my lights ruggedly, but I am loving this one...It's in my pocket right now.
    "I am not a Collector" - Tim

  20. #260
    Flashaholic scottyhazzard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by F250XLT View Post
    I don't use any of my lights ruggedly, but I am loving this one...It's in my pocket right now.
    I am rough on lights. So far I have not dropped it onto concrete, just carpet and hospital linoleum. It lives in my pocket, taken swims with it in my pocket. I cycle IMR's through it and it sees daily use and has not given me any trouble. It has saved my family and I from a rogue doberman attack at night. For those reasons I really like it. It is a niche light, it floods a short distance with a hell of a lot of light for a short time and can get to the lowest low light output I've ever experienced. Sometimes I regret not having purchased the titanium version.
    I'm a Lumenaut, on a bold quest of discovery. To find the smallest, toughest, eyeball searing-est torch that modern science can create!

  21. #261
    Flashaholic* Kilovolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by F250XLT View Post
    I don't use any of my lights ruggedly, but I am loving this one...It's in my pocket right now.

    Same here, I got accustomed to the not-so-clean beam provided by the SMO reflector, put a 18350 inside and am EDCing my RRT-01 quite happily.

  22. #262

    Default

    Mine lives on my nightstand where it will stay for a long time. I just haven't found a light that will knock my current EDC out of my pocket yet. It is simply flawless for late night trips around the house. The lows are really that good!
    This is my signature. They're many like it but this one is mine..

  23. #263
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by kaichu dento View Post
    When a compromise is made, there can be tradeoffs, but the only tradeoffs made when a proper solution is found are accurately called improvements.
    A solution belongs firmly in the camp of being labeled an improvement when executed in such a manner as to have no negative aspects.
    Okay, I understand now. You're looking at engineering from the perspective of there being a "best" solution to a problem. From that perspective, I can see why my earlier posts bothered you. There is no "best" solution to any problem, only solutions that are preferred by the people investing the time, effort, and/or money into their development.

  24. #264
    Flashaholic* F250XLT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    I've just come to the realization that the board on mine is completely loose, nothing but the wires holding it in.
    "I am not a Collector" - Tim

  25. #265
    Flashaholic* beach honda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by F250XLT View Post
    I've just come to the realization that the board on mine is completely loose, nothing but the wires holding it in.

    No good! Can you get a picture Tim? I've been thinking about this and he TCR-1 for a while now. News like his sucks to hear! Is it something you can fix yourself?
    -Chr1s-
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  26. #266
    Flashaholic* F250XLT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by beach honda View Post
    No good! Can you get a picture Tim? I've been thinking about this and he TCR-1 for a while now. News like his sucks to hear! Is it something you can fix yourself?

    I'll do you one better...


    ***Link to video removed***
    Last edited by F250XLT; 06-19-2012 at 09:29 AM.
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  27. #267
    Flashaholic scottyhazzard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    F250XLT how did you come to suspect it was loose? Seeing yours rattle like that makes me think that some arctic silver might be a nice addition.
    I'm a Lumenaut, on a bold quest of discovery. To find the smallest, toughest, eyeball searing-est torch that modern science can create!

  28. #268
    Flashaholic* F250XLT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by scottyhazzard View Post
    F250XLT how did you come to suspect it was loose? Seeing yours rattle like that makes me think that some arctic silver might be a nice addition.

    I was attempting to better center the emitter, by adjusting the reflector. When I removed the reflector, the little black piece between the reflector base and the board fell out. When I went to put it back on, I noticed the LE was loose. Doesn't seem to be causing a problem, once the bezel is tightened down it appears that the reflector holds it in place.
    "I am not a Collector" - Tim

  29. #269

    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    I was looking to buy an RRT-01.
    All the major retailers including eBay are out of stock with RRT-01's.

    Could an updated/facelifted RRT-01 be just around the corner???
    Or that's too early...

  30. #270
    Flashaholic Force Attuned's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jetbeam RRT-01

    Quote Originally Posted by peterharvey73 View Post
    I was looking to buy an RRT-01.
    All the major retailers including eBay are out of stock with RRT-01's.

    Could an updated/facelifted RRT-01 be just around the corner???
    Or that's too early...
    Theres a few still on Ebay.

    TO those that have one of these, are they worth getting?

    I have a Jetbeam PC10 on the way but will probably get one more single cell light to complement that with my Surefire EB1.
    Icon Solo, G2Z M60L - Gunmetal 6P P60L - C2 M60 - E1B - E1L - Black 6P w/R2, Gunmetal 3D Mag w/Malkoff 245L

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