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Thread: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

  1. #121
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    The Elzetta twins are a little different at the tail section than any Surefire.



    The factory cuts a steep angle where the bore meets the threads & enlarging the bore means recutting that same angle. This machining shortens the tail section about 1mm so the forward shoulder has to be recut 1mm forward so the tail cap retains full travel without bottoming out.

    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  2. #122
    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
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    Default Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    You are the maestro Barry.

  3. #123
    Flashaholic* tobrien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Quote Originally Posted by Benchiew View Post
    You are the maestro Barry.
    agreed. he's got experience.
    aka Edgar Allan Bro, Brosama Bin Liftin, Walter Crunkite, Bro Namath, Teddy Brosevelt, and the Tomahawk Crunkmissile.
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  4. #124
    Flashaholic* BenChiew's Avatar
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    Default Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Tracking number received from Barry.

  5. #125

    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Just got my SF P2X back. Excellent work and turnaround time. My AW unprotected 18650's fit perfectly, I just had to put a small rare earth magnet on the cell so it would make contact but that is because the cells I am using are not buttonheads, nothing to do with Barry's work. Thanks Barry!

  6. #126

    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Just wondering ........ wouldn't a 16550 battery work just fine without having to bore the fury and 6px bodies ?

  7. #127
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Quote Originally Posted by abnjeffy View Post
    Just got my SF P2X back. Excellent work and turnaround time. My AW unprotected 18650's fit perfectly, ...
    Thank you for your kind words.

    ... wouldn't a 16550 battery work just fine without having to bore the fury and 6px bodies ?
    Those cells run around 2100-2200 mAh versus up to 3400 mAh for the 18650. Runtime is dramatically shorter.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  8. #128

    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    Thank you for your kind words.

    Those cells run around 2100-2200 mAh versus up to 3400 mAh for the 18650. Runtime is dramatically shorter.
    is the brightnes the same?
    what is your runtime estimates for a 2200 mah 16550 vs a 3000 mah 18650?
    thanks

  9. #129
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Quote Originally Posted by RIX TUX View Post
    is the brightnes the same?
    In the 6PX lights the brightness is identical with 2xCR123 & with any rechargeable cell.

    ... what is your runtime estimate for a 2200 mah 16550 vs a 3000 mah 18650?

    Comparing total available watt hours per battery gives a good indication ...

    BASELINE 2xCR123 6v x 1400 mAh = 8.40 Wh (this gets a power value of 1.00 to keep it simple)

    16650 3.7v x 2200 mAh = 8.14 Wh (power value of .97)

    18650 3.7v x 3000 mAh = 11.1 Wh (power value of 1.32)

    18650 3.7v x 3400 mAh = 12.6 Wh (power value of 1.50)

    SureFire states runtime for their lights as “tactical runtime,” which is time until output drops to 50 lumens.

    SF shows the Fury with 2xCR123 will reach 50 lumens after 90 minutes.

    The 16650 2200 mAh should reach 50 lumens at 87 minutes.

    The 18650 3000 mAh should reach 50 lumens at 119 minutes.

    My testing with 3400 mAh cells shows 50 lumens at 145 minutes.
    Last edited by precisionworks; 09-08-2013 at 01:50 PM.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  10. #130

    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    [QUOTE=precisionworks;4276322/]In the 6PX lights the brightness is identical with 2xCR123 & with any rechargeable cell.
    the same for a Fury?
    and thx for the valuable information on the battery runtimes - its great !!!
    Last edited by precisionworks; 09-08-2013 at 02:56 PM.

  11. #131
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    The Fury output is identical with primaries or rechargeable cells.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  12. #132
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    It looks like the new SF Fury P3X is close to being available & one should be in my shop within a few weeks. Planning to bore the light + a 1-cell extender & run 2x18650. Some things to consider about this mod:

    From the factory the light is designed to run 3xCR123 & that means the board components are rated for 9 volts. One of the limiting factors on any driver board are the capacitors & they come in the following voltage ratings - 3V, 4V, 6.3V, 10V, 16V, 25V, etc. Best guess is that Surefire will use 10V rated components on the P3X. Since 2x18650 produces 8.2V (cells right off the charger) that setup should be very nice.

    Run 3xCR123 primary cells if you need shortest overall length.

    Run 2X18650 rechargeable cells (requires SF A19 extender or equal).
    Last edited by precisionworks; 09-25-2013 at 03:24 AM.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  13. #133
    Unenlightened Nostrajoshmus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    I just picked mine up yesterday, theres no voltage rating anywhere on the packaging. My first thought was to go with 2 18500's?, much like the bored c3. The bezel is cemented at the threads so i couldn't remove the head. any advice on how to get that bad boy off?
    Lux et veritas​

  14. #134
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Quote Originally Posted by Nostrajoshmus View Post
    I just picked mine up yesterday, there's no voltage rating anywhere on the packaging.
    I don't believe that SF has ever listed a voltage rating on any of their lights. They figure that most owners will run what came with the light, 3xCR123. As long as you stay at or below 9V the driver circuit should be happy.

    My first thought was to go with 2 18500's?, much like the bored c3.
    The length of 2x18500 is within 1/8" of three primaries & the voltage is slightly lower so that's good but the 18500 gives slightly less runtime than primaries. Using the same math as in post #129:

    BASELINE 3xCR123 9v x 1400 mAh = 12.60 Wh (this gets a power value of 1.00)

    2x18500 7.4v x 1600 mAh = 11.84 Wh (power value of .94)

    2x18650 7.4v x 3400 mAh = 25.16 (power value of 2.00)

    Not really a fair comparison as 2x18650 means adding 1.3" for the 1-cell extender. However, if you can live with the additional length the runtime is twice that of running three primaries.

    The bezel is cemented at the threads so i couldn't remove the head. any advice on how to get that bad boy off?
    Edited comment, method is no longer recommended or endorsed:

    Most heads will come off if the body is gripped in a fixture that allows applying additional torque to the head. So far I've seen only one PX2 Pro & only one P2X Fury with heads that wouldn't budge.

    About half the Fury's (2-cell) have heads that unscrew with only hand pressure but the other half need more force. Sometimes not much force is required, other times it's a lot. I use the setup shown below with a split hard maple block that's lathe bored to the exact body diameter of the Fury & held in a big bench vise. This allows the strap wrench to do its job. I wouldn't expect to see that in any home shop & don't know what else to suggest.




    Early X-Series lights (6PX/G2X/P2X/P3X/etc.) had permanently glued on heads. Most lights during 2013 have heads that unscrew with firm hand pressure. Every recent X-Series light has required boring with the head attached & cost is double that shown above.

    For some time I was unable to a bore light with attached head but tooling is now in place that allows doing just that. Cost is double so let me explain why ...

    A new solid carbide bar had to be factory modified to clear the spring in the head. A new carbide tipped reamer had to be purchased & shop modified to clear the spring.

    Since there's no where for the chips to escape they pack the space ahead of the tool & the depth of bore & depth of ream is limited. The best procedure is:

    Bore 1.00", withdraw tool, clear chips (compressed air and pick), reset tool
    Bore 1.00" more & repeat above
    Bore .750" more & repeat above
    Bore .750" more & repeat above
    Bore .500" more & repeat above
    Bore .250" more & repeat above
    Bore .100" more & repeat above
    Bore .050" more & repeat above
    Bore .025" more to finish boring to depth

    Repeat all nine steps above with reamer

    Hone dry with ball hones

    Clean & inspect

    Time to run through 9 boring steps + 9 reaming steps + final finishing is more than double the time for normal head off boring. The boring bar & reamer are run as close as I dare to allow full battery seating against the spring:

    Last edited by precisionworks; 12-13-2013 at 04:44 AM.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  15. #135
    Flashaholic* tobrien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    It looks like the new SF Fury P3X is close to being available & one should be in my shop within a few weeks. Planning to bore the light + a 1-cell extender & run 2x18650. Some things to consider about this mod:

    From the factory the light is designed to run 3xCR123 & that means the board components are rated for 9 volts. One of the limiting factors on any driver board are the capacitors & they come in the following voltage ratings - 3V, 4V, 6.3V, 10V, 16V, 25V, etc. Best guess is that Surefire will use 10V rated components on the P3X. Since 2x18650 produces 8.2V (cells right off the charger) that setup should be very nice.

    Run 3xCR123 primary cells if you need shortest overall length.

    Run 2X18650 rechargeable cells (requires SF A19 extender or equal).
    that sounds awesome! this could be the setup to beat
    aka Edgar Allan Bro, Brosama Bin Liftin, Walter Crunkite, Bro Namath, Teddy Brosevelt, and the Tomahawk Crunkmissile.
    my lights - review of PrecisionWorks - that's Gucci Mane in my avatar

  16. #136
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Quote Originally Posted by tobrien View Post
    that sounds awesome! this could be the setup to beat
    Absolutely

    Surefire really got it together on the 3-cell plus the XM-L2.

    *************************

    Look at the P2X with primaries vs rechargeable:

    2xCR123 6v x 1400 mAh = 8.40 Wh

    1x18650 3.7v x 3400 mAh = 12.6 Wh

    50% runtime gain with 18650 (which correlates well with burn down testing I've done).

    *************************

    And the P3X

    3xCR123 9v x 1400 mAh = 12.60 Wh

    2x18650 7.4v x 3400 mAh = 25.2 Wh

    100% runtime gain with 18650 (calculated value, actual results may vary, burn down test will provide real world numbers)

    *************************

    In the P2X the 18650 is about equal to running three primaries (in total available watt hours). Contrast that to the P3X where 2x18650 is about equal to running six primaries. It is a huge difference.

    Part of this is that the 18650 is the most highly developed battery today - it packs more watt hours into less space than anything else. We can all thank the laptop computer industry - if there were no laptops we'd likely be running 18650 with 2000 mAh or less.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  17. #137
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    hi there, you know there is a new Elzetta 900 Lumen 3 Cell Flashlight C331 I want to buy , but is it possible to bore it so a rechargeable fits it rather than Primaries ?.
    is it possible?
    what battery could fit 3 cell ?.

    stick to primaries?.
    thanks.
    Nichia 219b 4500k 9080

  18. #138
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Quote Originally Posted by neutralwhite View Post
    ... Elzetta 900 Lumen 3 Cell Flashlight ... is it possible to bore it so a rechargeable fits it rather than Primaries ?
    The 3-cell Elzetta should bore out like the 2-cell & I've already made a dedicated fixture for those lights - which are dimensionally different from Surefire. Not much but enough that nothing in my box full of SF fixtures came even close to working.

    Boring the Elzetta body is done starting at the head & boring toward the tail but stopping just short of the angled tail section. This means you'll always load & unload rechargeable batteries from the head. Cost is the same as any other 3-cell light, $52 for boring + $24 shipping by Priority Mail Intl to Hong Kong.

    You'll need two 18500 cells to replace the normal three primary cells. Runtime on 2x18500 is about 94% of three primary batteries & you will likely notice no difference. Brightness should be the same IF Elzetta designs their driver as Surefire does.

    Cost per hour of operation is where rechargeable cells shine (pun intended). Six cents per hour versus six dollars per hour is a metric ton.
    Last edited by precisionworks; 09-25-2013 at 03:17 PM.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  19. #139
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    It looks like the new SF Fury P3X is close to being available & one should be in my shop within a few weeks. Planning to bore the light + a 1-cell extender & run 2x18650.
    Waiting is the worst part & I'm still waiting - at least LA Police Supply hasn't yet charged my PP account.

    If anyone is planning to run 2x18650 you'll need a 1-cell extender. The Surefire A19 is the gold standard but they are hard to find. AFAIK the only place that has them is:

    http://www.oveready.com/index.php?se...&Submit=%C2%A0

    Dan currently shows 6 in white, 2 in orange & 10 in black HA. All are bored for 18650.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  20. #140

    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Hi Barry, it looks like you do amazing work! ...could I ask what you estimate your turnaround time is (roughly) at this point? I have two e1e's and one 6P that need some basic boring = )

    Thanks!

  21. #141
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Thank you for your kind words SDmtnbkr & welcome to CPF.

    Lead times right now are 2-4 weeks & that's as quick as they've been in a long time.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  22. #142
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Bored the first Fury P3X tonight. The spring at the PCB is small so the recoil shoulder at the front of the tube is bare minimum (0.5mm)

    Total battery projection from the face of the tube to the tip of the cell is 1.0mm





    Look from the switch end of the tube shows the bright ring that's the shoulder:

    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  23. #143

    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Cool Barry. This may sound stupid but did you bore it through or did you leave the shoulder there for a purpose?

    With the recoil shoulder in place, will the battery move past it?

    Thanks.
    LJ

  24. #144
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Quote Originally Posted by LightJunk View Post
    ... did you bore it through or did you leave the shoulder there for a purpose?
    The shoulder is something that is always left in the earlier model SF's (6P/C2/etc.) All those lights, even with an aftermarket drop in, have a spring that touches the positive contact on the battery. Until just recently the newer PX series lights had no spring so the tube was bored all the way through. SF now includes a spring contact on the PX series so the shoulder can once again be machined while boring.

    With the recoil shoulder in place, will the battery move past it?
    A CR123 battery (which is 17mm) will pass through but an 18mm cell will not:



    The very tip of a Panasonic 3400 mAh 18650 is 17mm & that part does come through flush with the end of the tube. The battery quickly widens to 18+ mm & cannot go any father forward.

    It's faster & easier to run the boring bar & the reamer all the way through the tube - stopping both those tools so that they leave a very narrow lip requires much more attention to setup. The benefit is that the driver board cannot be hammered by the battery if the light is dropped head down or during recoil if the light is weapon mounted.
    Last edited by precisionworks; 10-17-2013 at 03:44 AM.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  25. #145

    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Thanks for the explanation Barry. Nice job on the shoulder

    BTW how much will the damage be to bore and create the shoulder for the P3X?
    Last edited by LightJunk; 10-17-2013 at 04:59 AM.

  26. #146
    Flashaholic* tobrien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    yeah, as LightJunk said that's a great explanation (as Barry tends to do!)

    phenomenal looking (and functional!) work as as usual
    aka Edgar Allan Bro, Brosama Bin Liftin, Walter Crunkite, Bro Namath, Teddy Brosevelt, and the Tomahawk Crunkmissile.
    my lights - review of PrecisionWorks - that's Gucci Mane in my avatar

  27. #147
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Thank you both for your kind words.

    ... how much will the damage be to bore and create the shoulder for the P3X?
    Pricing is the same as other 3-cell lights, $52 + return shipping. For LEO_MIL_FF_EMT it's $44 + return shipping.

    The shoulder shown is machined as far forward as physically possible because of the lead angle cut at the front end of the reamer - the red lines show the angle left inside the front of the battery tube:



    I'll try the next shoulder with a 1.0 mm setback & see if the battery projects enough to make contact with the spring.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  28. #148

    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    can you do an E2E body to fit an AW 3400 18650? I searched through the thread but didn't see it posted anywhere.

  29. #149
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Quote Originally Posted by SDmtnbkr View Post
    can you do an E2E body to fit an AW 3400 18650?
    Yes I can but no I won't ... here's why. It's physically possible to do but the wall thickness after boring will be 0.1mm or a bit less, about the thickness of a Post-It note. Roll a Post-It note into a circle & the issue is easy to see.

    Boring an E or L for earlier 18650's (up to 3100 mAh) is pushing the limit.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at www:Precision.Works

  30. #150

    Default Re: Boring service for Surefire® and other aluminum or titanium lights

    Quote Originally Posted by precisionworks View Post
    Yes I can but no I won't ... here's why. It's physically possible to do but the wall thickness after boring will be 0.1mm or a bit less, about the thickness of a Post-It note. Roll a Post-It note into a circle & the issue is easy to see.

    Boring an E or L for earlier 18650's (up to 3100 mAh) is pushing the limit.
    Oh ok, makes sense. ...so you are able/willing to bore the the 3100 then? Or were you just saying that as a reference? Thanks.

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